IRC log of html-wg on 2008-02-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:02:24 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
00:08:20 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
00:40:14 [jgraham__]
jgraham__ has joined #html-wg
00:41:54 [jgraham]
jgraham has joined #html-wg
00:58:54 [olivier]
olivier has joined #html-wg
01:14:24 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
01:15:13 [jgraham_]
jgraham_ has joined #html-wg
01:16:16 [MikeSmith]
MikeSmith has joined #html-wg
01:16:52 [jgraham]
jgraham has joined #html-wg
01:34:04 [DanC_lap]
DanC_lap has joined #html-wg
01:36:22 [hyatt_]
hyatt_ has joined #html-wg
01:41:13 [olivier]
olivier has joined #html-wg
01:49:51 [jgraham__]
jgraham__ has joined #html-wg
01:50:00 [hyatt]
hyatt has joined #html-wg
01:51:23 [jgraham]
jgraham has joined #html-wg
02:12:39 [Thezilch]
Thezilch has joined #html-wg
02:31:57 [RelDrgn]
RelDrgn has joined #html-wg
02:37:18 [RelDrgn]
hm, I predict that this is probably a wholly inappropriate place to mention this, but the last revision of Overview.html truncated the file in the middle (Changes since 1.425: +1 -30610 lines)
02:40:20 [RelDrgn]
(referring to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ )
02:40:23 [RelDrgn]
RelDrgn has left #html-wg
03:14:22 [hyatt]
hyatt has joined #html-wg
04:00:46 [mjs_]
mjs_ has joined #html-wg
04:40:36 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
07:00:07 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
07:15:35 [hyatt]
hyatt has joined #html-wg
07:17:48 [hyatt]
hyatt has joined #html-wg
07:18:23 [hyatt]
hyatt has left #html-wg
07:39:05 [hyatt]
hyatt has joined #html-wg
08:11:55 [aroben]
aroben has joined #html-wg
08:30:51 [tH_]
tH_ has joined #html-wg
09:12:48 [Lachy_]
Lachy_ has joined #html-wg
09:22:26 [ROBOd]
ROBOd has joined #html-wg
09:24:26 [peepo]
peepo has joined #html-wg
09:45:52 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
09:46:55 [aaronlev]
aaronlev has joined #html-wg
10:03:26 [hsivonen]
are the video workshop minutes Member-only on purpose? I though they were supposed to be public after a review
10:09:20 [MikeSmith]
hsivonen - URL?
10:10:02 [hsivonen]
MikeSmith: http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/minutes
10:10:28 [hsivonen]
linked from the w3.org front page
10:10:56 [MikeSmith]
OK, I'll ask Philippe now
10:11:05 [hsivonen]
MikeSmith: thanks
10:16:14 [MikeSmith]
hsivonen - Philippe's not online, so I went ahead and set it to public. The fact that it's linked to on the home page without a "[member only]" note seems to suggest it definitely was not intended to be member-only
10:16:18 [MikeSmith]
thanks for the heads-up
10:24:06 [paullewis]
paullewis has joined #html-wg
10:27:02 [hsivonen]
MikeSmith: thanks
10:41:28 [zcorpan]
zcorpan has joined #html-wg
11:02:16 [myakura]
myakura has joined #html-wg
11:14:45 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
12:03:43 [paullewis]
paullewis has joined #html-wg
12:14:59 [Julian]
Julian has joined #html-wg
13:42:03 [petersn]
petersn has joined #html-wg
13:43:49 [Julian_Reschke]
Julian_Reschke has joined #html-wg
13:48:29 [matt]
matt has joined #html-wg
14:44:34 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
14:46:34 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
15:01:31 [DanC_lap]
DanC_lap has joined #html-wg
15:19:07 [peepo]
peepo has joined #html-wg
15:23:15 [xover]
xover has joined #html-wg
15:23:16 [billmason]
billmason has joined #html-wg
15:34:41 [Julian]
Julian has joined #html-wg
15:39:25 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
15:54:41 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
16:00:08 [matt_]
matt_ has joined #html-wg
16:05:54 [gsnedders]
gsnedders has joined #html-wg
16:26:44 [zcorpan]
i apologize for initiating a bikeshed topic on public-html
16:30:22 [MikeSmith]
MikeSmith has joined #html-wg
16:31:55 [DanC_lap]
cite element? or something else, zcorpan ? (I keep forgetting the relationship between IRC nicks and email names)
16:32:14 [zcorpan]
DanC_lap: target=_blank
16:32:35 [oedipus]
oedipus has joined #html-wg
16:32:37 [zcorpan]
simonp@opera.com
16:45:00 [jdandrea]
jdandrea has joined #html-wg
16:48:12 [Julian]
zcorpan: I think it's a good discussion to have (target=_blank)
16:50:27 [zcorpan]
Julian: sure
16:50:45 [Laura]
Laura has joined #html-wg
16:50:50 [zcorpan]
Julian: though, that thread seems to have turned into a bikeshed by now :)
16:52:45 [Steve_f]
Steve_f has joined #html-wg
16:54:10 [Julian]
zcorpan: I admit I didn't read all of it.
16:54:32 [dbaron]
dbaron has joined #html-wg
16:56:00 [DanC_lap]
the _blank thread looks mostly healthy; I just wish some test-case-elves were following along.
16:56:43 [sampablokuper]
sampablokuper has joined #html-wg
16:57:15 [Philip]
What kind of test case would help that thead?
16:57:55 [Gerrie]
Gerrie has joined #html-wg
16:58:19 [DanC_lap]
one where the input document has target="_blank" and the output is "conforming" or "non-conforming"
16:58:51 [DanC_lap]
better if the input documents capture some use cases, such as gmail
16:59:49 [DanC_lap]
the output could also be: new window allowed/required/forbidden
17:00:42 [DanC_lap]
allowed + browser-makes-new-window = pass
17:00:50 [DanC_lap]
allowed + brosers-uses-same-window = pass
17:01:00 [DanC_lap]
required + browser-uses-same-window = fail
17:01:12 [DanC_lap]
forbidden + browser-mades-new-window = fail
17:02:06 [zcorpan]
the thread isn't about what browsers do, but about whether _blank should be conforming for authors
17:02:07 [DanC_lap]
it makes a WG decision straghtforward to phrase
17:02:25 [Steve_f]
dan: is the meeting happening now or have i got the times wrong?
17:02:30 [DanC_lap]
oops
17:02:31 [sampablokuper]
Ditto
17:02:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-wg
17:02:43 [DanC_lap]
RRSAgent, pointer?
17:02:43 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-irc#T17-02-43
17:02:46 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, this is html
17:02:46 [Zakim]
ok, DanC_lap; that matches HTML_WG()12:00PM
17:02:52 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:02:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, ??P2, [Microsoft], +049251280aaee
17:03:03 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, call DanC-BOS
17:03:03 [Zakim]
ok, DanC_lap; the call is being made
17:03:05 [Julian]
Zakim, +049251280aaee is me
17:03:05 [Zakim]
+DanC
17:03:07 [Zakim]
+Julian; got it
17:03:13 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, microsoft is me
17:03:13 [Zakim]
+ChrisWilson; got it
17:03:30 [Zakim]
+??P6
17:03:43 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, ??P6 is SteveF
17:03:43 [Zakim]
+SteveF; got it
17:04:13 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, aaaa is Laura
17:04:13 [Zakim]
+Laura; got it
17:04:23 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, aabb is Jerry_S
17:04:23 [Zakim]
+Jerry_S; got it
17:04:36 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, aacc is Dave_B
17:04:36 [Zakim]
+Dave_B; got it
17:04:43 [Gerrie]
Gerrie Shults, not Jerry
17:05:31 [DanC_lap]
agenda + Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z
17:05:36 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, take up item 1
17:05:36 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC_lap]
17:06:27 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:06:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, ??P2, ChrisWilson, Julian, DanC, SteveF
17:07:00 [DanC_lap]
Laura Carlson
17:07:34 [Gerrie]
Gerrie Shulte
17:07:44 [Gerrie]
Gerrie Shults
17:07:47 [DanC_lap]
Gerrie Shults / HP
17:08:12 [DanC_lap]
David Bills
17:08:28 [DanC_lap]
agenda + SQL statement support [Dave_B]
17:08:46 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, ??P2 is Josh
17:08:46 [Zakim]
+Josh; got it
17:09:02 [DanC_lap]
Joshue O Connor
17:10:26 [DanC_lap]
Steve Faulkner
17:11:00 [DanC_lap]
agenda + orientation, process
17:11:15 [dfbills]
dfbills has joined #html-wg
17:11:25 [DanC_lap]
agenda + ISSUE-31 missing-alt
17:11:41 [DanC_lap]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
17:12:01 [DanC_lap]
agenda + ISSUE-34 commonality
17:12:22 [DanC_lap]
agenda + ISSUE-35 aria-processing
17:12:41 [DanC_lap]
agenda 2 = ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql
17:12:56 [DanC_lap]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/open
17:13:28 [DanC_lap]
is issue ISSUE-14 aira-role the same as issue-35?
17:14:06 [DanC_lap]
agenda 6 = ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
17:15:39 [DanC_lap]
agenda + semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48
17:16:16 [DanC_lap]
agenda + canvas mailing list (which action?)
17:16:30 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, agenda?
17:16:30 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
17:16:31 [Zakim]
1. Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z [from DanC_lap]
17:16:34 [Zakim]
2. ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql
17:16:36 [Zakim]
3. orientation, process [from DanC_lap]
17:16:37 [Zakim]
4. ISSUE-31 missing-alt [from DanC_lap]
17:16:38 [Zakim]
5. ISSUE-34 commonality [from DanC_lap]
17:16:39 [Zakim]
6. ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
17:16:40 [Zakim]
7. semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48 [from DanC_lap]
17:16:42 [Zakim]
8. canvas mailing list (which action?) [from DanC_lap]
17:17:06 [DanC_lap]
agenda + ISSUE-32 table-summary
17:17:45 [DanC_lap]
next meeting 28 Feb, Chris W. to chair (4pm Pacific time)
17:17:58 [milesdefeyter]
milesdefeyter has joined #html-wg
17:18:10 [Steve_f]
dan: for issue 35 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0275.html
17:18:16 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, next item
17:18:16 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql" taken up
17:19:00 [DanC_lap]
issue-36 is a design issue...
17:19:13 [DanC_lap]
see also ISSUE-16 (edit)
17:19:13 [DanC_lap]
offline-applications-sql
17:19:35 [DavidFBills]
DavidFBills has joined #html-wg
17:19:47 [smedero]
smedero has joined #html-wg
17:19:59 [DanC_lap]
issue-16 is a requirements/scope issue
17:20:28 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, mute me
17:20:28 [Zakim]
sorry, DanC_lap, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
17:20:32 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, mute DanC
17:20:32 [Zakim]
DanC should now be muted
17:21:08 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, unmute DanC
17:21:08 [Zakim]
DanC should no longer be muted
17:21:47 [DanC_lap]
Dave, is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0288.html the message you're speaking of?
17:22:47 [ChrisWilson]
agrees with Dan - but doesn't understand if "SQL-lite" is descriptive enough to go with currently.
17:23:19 [anne]
it's SQLite
17:23:42 [ChrisWilson]
sorry, someone else mis-typed in an email, and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee.
17:23:43 [DanC_lap]
action-13?
17:23:43 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-13 -- Chris Wilson to talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion -- due 2008-02-21 -- OPEN
17:23:43 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/13
17:23:52 [gsnedders]
What version of SQLite? Do we have to copy bugs from SQLite?
17:23:53 [gsnedders]
etc.
17:24:12 [anne]
ChrisWilson, no need for apologies, just making sure everyone is talking about the same thing :)
17:24:23 [DanC_lap]
close action-13
17:24:23 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-13 Talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion closed
17:24:31 [DavidFBills]
I guess the real question would be whether it would follow the feature set or actually implement the actual code
17:24:42 [ChrisWilson]
So Anne, since you're not on the phone - the question is "is 'SQLite' a defined enough, interoperable spec to refer to?"
17:25:22 [anne]
Probably not. As I said on the mailing list, the plan is to wait for two implementations and to define it then
17:25:24 [gsnedders]
ChrisWilson: SQLite supports most of SQL92 — I think requiring SQL92 support would be easier
17:25:36 [gsnedders]
<http://www.sqlite.org/omitted.html>
17:25:53 [anne]
You don't want all of SQL anyway, as some features don't make sense for client-side storage
17:26:26 [anne]
(encodings, transactions, etc. should probably all be banned from the language as far as this API is concerned)
17:26:27 [gsnedders]
That's true, but it's probably better to define what we need in terms of SQL92 than any implementation
17:26:43 [aroben]
aroben has joined #html-wg
17:26:55 [anne]
I don't see why it needs to be in terms of something else, one more level of indirection
17:26:58 [DanC_lap]
CW: I talked with Chaals about WebAPI/HTML boundaries... they're being re-chartered...
17:27:14 [DanC_lap]
CW: I think we can find editors too...
17:27:32 [DavidFBills]
anne: I agree
17:28:29 [Josh]
Josh has joined #html-wg
17:28:41 [DanC_lap]
ACTION: Dan check for offline api stuff in WebAPI proposed charter
17:28:41 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-53 - Check for offline api stuff in WebAPI proposed charter [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-02-28].
17:28:59 [Josh]
IRC is go ;-)
17:29:15 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, next item
17:29:15 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "orientation, process" taken up [from DanC_lap]
17:29:37 [ChrisWilson]
agrees with anne - I'd rather NOT have a level of indirection, unless the redirection is to a very definitive specification.
17:29:50 [DanC_lap]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/results
17:30:35 [oedipus]
Extensible HyperText Markup Language Vocabulary namespace
17:31:02 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, next item
17:31:02 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "ISSUE-31 missing-alt" taken up [from DanC_lap]
17:31:11 [Sander]
Sander has joined #html-wg
17:31:22 [DanC_lap]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31
17:33:18 [Zakim]
-SteveF
17:33:40 [deltab]
deltab has joined #html-wg
17:33:41 [DanC_lap]
a periodic survey of top web sites
17:33:51 [DanC_lap]
* M. Jackson Wilkinson
17:33:51 [DanC_lap]
* Sean Fraser
17:33:51 [DanC_lap]
* Terry Morris
17:33:51 [DanC_lap]
* Serdar Kiliç
17:33:52 [DanC_lap]
* Rene Saarsoo
17:33:54 [DanC_lap]
* Patrick Taylor
17:33:55 [Zakim]
+??P6
17:33:56 [DanC_lap]
* Roman Kitainik
17:33:58 [DanC_lap]
* James VanDyke
17:34:00 [DanC_lap]
* Craig Saila
17:34:02 [DanC_lap]
* Michael Turnwall
17:34:04 [DanC_lap]
* Benjamin Hedrington
17:34:06 [DanC_lap]
* Karl Dubost
17:34:08 [DanC_lap]
* Marco Battilana
17:34:12 [DanC_lap]
* Andrew Smith
17:34:12 [DanC_lap]
* Shawn Medero
17:34:14 [DanC_lap]
* Eric Eggert
17:34:16 [DanC_lap]
* Ben Millard
17:34:18 [DanC_lap]
* Thomas Bradley
17:34:20 [DanC_lap]
* Mark Martin
17:34:22 [DanC_lap]
* Balakumar Muthu
17:34:24 [DanC_lap]
* Justin Thorp
17:34:28 [DanC_lap]
* Samuel Santos
17:34:30 [DanC_lap]
* Karl Groves
17:34:32 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, ??P6 is SteveF
17:34:32 [Zakim]
+SteveF; got it
17:34:56 [DanC_lap]
DanC: Joshue, did you look at missing alt in your video survey?
17:35:01 [DanC_lap]
Joshue: no, but could do...
17:36:09 [Josh]
Would be glad to provide video footage to supplement discussion on @alt issue
17:36:13 [DanC_lap]
"the failure of the HTML5 draft to make
17:36:13 [DanC_lap]
@alt on <img> an across-the-board requirement (even if sometimes
17:36:13 [DanC_lap]
it has the value of &quot;&quot;) is a bug."
17:36:22 [DanC_lap]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0082.html
17:37:05 [ChrisWilson]
if it's required but allowed to be "", why is that any better? Is there a pointer to that discussion somewhere?
17:38:15 [Josh]
The null alt value is ignored by Assistive Technology for one thing.
17:38:16 [gsnedders]
ChrisWilson: the rational seems to be it "is inconsistent with WCAG"
17:38:43 [ChrisWilson]
@Josh I think you're agreeing?
17:38:44 [gsnedders]
(I've never seen any better rational than that, even if there is some)
17:39:00 [ChrisWilson]
@gsnedders umm. yeah.
17:39:29 [smedero]
What is considered a valid source of the "top web sites" if anyone wanted to fire off a crawling job? Alexa's "Top 500 Global Sites"? http://www.alexa.com/site/ds/top_sites?ts_mode=global&lang=none
17:39:38 [zcorpan]
ChrisWilson: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute
17:39:40 [smedero]
I find Alexa to be of questionable trust with respect to traffic numbers but... I don't know who else is publishing something like this... particularly something that either has an XML feed or a screen-scrape friendly front-end for automating the crawl.
17:39:49 [Josh]
@Chris, am not sure yet what I am agreeing to ;-)
17:39:50 [anne]
the PFWG actually failed to address our concerns
17:39:51 [oedipus]
there is going to be the possibility of a null value for an attribute, and in the case of ALT, that should be a "reserved character" -- if you use alt="" it will be skipped and you better damn well make sure that it was only decorative (or a spacer)
17:39:59 [anne]
their argument boils down to: "it should be invalid"
17:40:01 [oedipus]
how so, anne
17:40:50 [Josh]
@Chris One concern is that making the alt value optional send the wrong message to bad developers
17:41:00 [sampablokuper]
Are spacer graphics still considered okay?
17:41:25 [zcorpan]
sampablokuper: no (they never were)
17:41:34 [sampablokuper]
right; thanks for confirming.
17:41:34 [Josh]
That they can somehow ignore it, which in some cases they can (Spacers or presentation graphics/icons with null values are Ok etc)
17:41:54 [oedipus]
no, spacer gifs are supposed to be supplanted by CSS, but then again, HTML4.x also formally deprecated use of BLOCKQUOTE for stylistic reasons, but like spacers, they continue to be everywhere
17:41:55 [anne]
they can also ignore it by setting alt=randomValue
17:42:05 [anne]
which is the point the PFWG failed to address
17:42:14 [Philip]
sampablokuper, the current HTML5 draft says "The img must not be used as a layout tool. In particular, img elements should not be used to display fully transparent images, as they rarely convey meaning and rarely add anything useful to the document."
17:42:24 [Josh]
@sampa Do you mean spacers GIFs as opposed to icon type or button graphics?
17:42:54 [Philip]
(though that makes some of my canvas test cases non-conforming)
17:42:58 [sampablokuper]
@Josh I was referring to the comment by oedipus above
17:43:12 [zcorpan]
Philip: (test cases don't need to be conforming)
17:43:14 [Josh]
@sampa no worries
17:43:15 [oedipus]
sampablokuper, did you get my reply
17:43:40 [sampablokuper]
oedipus, yes, thanks
17:44:03 [oedipus]
when you use @foo all 4 screen readers i have here choke and don't speak the word -- that's why i don't like the @foo attribute shorthand
17:44:04 [DanC_lap]
ACTION: SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements
17:44:04 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - SteveF
17:44:28 [Josh]
back in a minnute
17:45:54 [DanC_lap]
oedipus, can I assign this action to you, for admin purposes?
17:46:03 [oedipus]
yes, dan
17:46:09 [DanC_lap]
ACTION: Gregory work with SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements
17:46:09 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-54 - Work with SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-02-28].
17:47:40 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, next item
17:47:40 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "ISSUE-34 commonality" taken up [from DanC_lap]
17:48:00 [oedipus]
there also is an ancient "accessibility" trick from the days of HTML Wilbur, where one would use invisible 1 pixel images to provide "unobtrusive" context; something now supplanted by WCAG2 Technique C7 (use of overflow to "hide" extra contenxtualizing text to a link that visually says "Real More..." or "See Also..." multiple times on a page
17:48:28 [dfbills]
oh the dreaded spacer.gif
17:50:04 [DanC_lap]
"Can we get access to tools that determine how often markup is used on the web?"
17:50:20 [dfbills]
I've always found it interesting that img alt tags are designed for accessibility, but the most common use would be in lightweight or mobile browsers where the overhead in byte-count actually slows the loading of the code over the network.
17:50:27 [DanC_lap]
CW: clearly these tools are valuable; Microsoft has some and in some cases I might be able to use them for HTML WG purposes
17:50:42 [DanC_lap]
[somebody]: and Ian Hickson can do queries at google sometimes
17:51:10 [dfbills]
Is anyone providing it on the web? or at least statistics similar to netcraft with the server stats?
17:51:32 [DanC_lap]
ACTION: Dan ask the TAG about tag soup measurement techniques
17:51:33 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-55 - Ask the TAG about tag soup measurement techniques [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-02-28].
17:51:39 [gsnedders]
dfbills: Phillip Taylor has some data at <http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/survey/2007-07-17/analyse.cgi/index>
17:51:45 [smedero]
It seems like the real issue with the markup analyzation isn't the tools so much as the web-scale data mining hassles.
17:51:50 [gsnedders]
s/Phillip/Philip/
17:52:06 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, next item
17:52:06 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role" taken up
17:52:11 [Steve_f]
apologies, have to leave now.
17:52:27 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, agenda?
17:52:27 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
17:52:29 [Zakim]
6. ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
17:52:30 [Zakim]
7. semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48 [from DanC_lap]
17:52:31 [Zakim]
8. canvas mailing list (which action?) [from DanC_lap]
17:52:32 [Zakim]
9. ISSUE-32 table-summary [from DanC_lap]
17:52:36 [oedipus]
GJR: i just commented on this issue - i think it is malformed
17:52:47 [dfbills]
smedero: sure- that's why we should target someone with access to search engine data or browser development tools
17:53:05 [DanC_lap]
ADJOUN.
17:53:07 [Zakim]
-Julian
17:53:08 [Josh]
Bye all
17:53:08 [Zakim]
-Dave_B
17:53:08 [Zakim]
-ChrisWilson
17:53:10 [Zakim]
-SteveF
17:53:14 [Zakim]
-Laura
17:53:26 [oedipus]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0339.html
17:53:28 [Zakim]
-Jerry_S
17:53:39 [Zakim]
-Josh
17:54:15 [DanC_lap]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:54:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-minutes.html DanC_lap
17:54:30 [DanC_lap]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
17:54:39 [sampablokuper]
Sorry, what just happened?
17:54:56 [oedipus]
i think the meeting ended and they are wrapping the minutes from the IRC log
17:55:03 [gsnedders]
gsnedders has left #html-wg
17:55:10 [DanC_lap]
I proposed to postpone the remaining agenda and adjourn, and all agreed, sampablokuper
17:55:12 [gsnedders]
gsnedders has joined #html-wg
17:55:19 [sampablokuper]
Thanks, DanC
17:56:11 [DanC_lap]
the IRC channel was used for a mix of ordinary IRC chat and transcribing the teleconference; I didn't recruit a dedicated scribe, so it's a bit chaotic.
17:56:26 [DanC_lap]
Meeting: HTML WG Weekly
17:56:33 [DanC_lap]
Chair: DanC
17:57:03 [DanC_lap]
ah. I wonder how to fix that, oedipus
17:57:17 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, list participants
17:57:17 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, +049251280aadd, DanC, Julian, ChrisWilson, SteveF, Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, Josh
17:57:18 [oedipus]
present+ Gerrie_Shults
17:57:25 [oedipus]
present- Jerry_S
17:57:26 [DanC_lap]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:57:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-minutes.html DanC_lap
17:57:47 [DanC_lap]
yup; thanks.
17:57:52 [oedipus]
no problem
17:58:08 [DanC_lap]
now... how to get the minutes to be clear that we didn't actually take up item 6?
17:58:46 [oedipus]
hey, i just know the outsiders' tricks - the only ,tool i can use as non-staff is the plain text generator
17:59:23 [DanC_lap]
well, I'd clean up the minutes manually, but my next teleconference convenes in ... um... now.
17:59:24 [sampablokuper]
DanC, I'm happy to scribe meetings occasionally if you'd like. The only problem is that although I can dial in, I can't necessarily talk much as I'm in a shared office.
17:59:57 [DanC_lap]
good to know, sampablokuper ; were you on the call today?
18:00:17 [sampablokuper]
No, I wasn't, but I can be in future.
18:00:57 [sampablokuper]
(As long as it's understood that during work hours I won't be able to say much on the phone, to avoid disturbing my colleagues in Cambridg University Library)
18:01:12 [sampablokuper]
Oops Cambridge :)
18:01:23 [oedipus]
you don't need to minutes the "shush"es
18:01:43 [sampablokuper]
;)
18:01:50 [oedipus]
by the way, to correct when minuting the syntax is "s/wrongword/rightword
18:01:57 [oedipus]
without quotes
18:02:08 [gsnedders]
it's full sed syntax, AFAIK
18:02:28 [oedipus]
Scribe's Quick Start Guide:
18:02:35 [oedipus]
http://dev.w3.org/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
18:02:40 [oedipus]
RRSAgent IRC Bot Guidebook:
18:02:40 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
18:02:45 [oedipus]
Zakim Bridge Guidebook:
18:02:45 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
18:02:57 [oedipus]
bookmark those, and you'll be scribing with the stars...
18:03:03 [sampablokuper]
Thank you, oedipus. I didn't realise sed syntax was popular in irc. Those links are very useful.
18:03:34 [oedipus]
you are quite welcome - as those docs say, they represent the collective wisdom of w3c participants...
18:04:40 [sampablokuper]
Great. Okay, back to work now... Bye, and thanks again.
18:04:44 [oedipus]
danC, did you want to dismiss zakim or let him leave when he gets tired of monitoring the bridge?
18:04:48 [oedipus]
bye
18:05:00 [gsnedders]
oedipus: he normally just lets him leave
18:05:17 [oedipus]
ok, thanks, gsnedders
18:05:29 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
18:06:12 [oedipus]
oedipus has left #html-wg
18:12:44 [mjs_]
mjs_ has joined #html-wg
18:13:54 [jgraham_mibbit]
jgraham_mibbit has joined #html-wg
18:14:38 [edas]
edas has joined #html-wg
18:35:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, DanC, in HTML_WG()12:00PM
18:35:02 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
18:35:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, +049251280aadd, DanC, Julian, ChrisWilson, SteveF, Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, Josh
18:52:10 [adele]
adele has joined #html-wg
18:56:45 [hyatt]
hyatt has joined #html-wg
19:03:05 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
19:08:37 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
19:10:31 [Laura]
Laura has joined #html-wg
19:27:08 [dbaron]
dbaron has joined #html-wg
19:52:16 [DanC_lap]
DanC_lap has joined #html-wg
19:53:06 [Philip]
(and 57 with class=address)
19:53:51 [Hixie]
hm, better than i expected
19:53:59 [Hixie]
still pretty abysmal though
19:56:13 [Philip]
(There's 7 with class=vcard, plus 12 on Wikipedia and 5 on Blogspot)
19:58:04 [Philip]
((counting people with class="contact vcard" etc too))
20:01:34 [milesdefeyter]
milesdefeyter has joined #html-wg
20:08:22 [Hixie]
oh well do the cases with class=vcard and the cases with class=adr overlap?
20:08:33 [Hixie]
because adr is a part of vcard that was taken out into its own mf
20:14:00 [Philip]
Of the 6 non-Wikipedia with adr, 4 also have vcard, 1 is http://www.spezial.ru/ which looks like it's not an address, and 1 is http://www.klaardesign.se/ which looks like it's not a microformatted address
20:14:46 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
20:15:15 [Philip]
I think adr isn't meant to be used by itself - it's just been split out so it can be reused as a component of other microformats (which currently is only hcard)
20:15:32 [Philip]
Oh, but I think wrong
20:15:56 [Philip]
because http://microformats.org/wiki/adr explicitly mentions some adr-not-in-hcard examples
20:19:52 [Philip]
It's used much more than <q> anyway, so it's not doing too badly
20:21:09 [Hixie]
yeah
20:37:27 [Lachy_]
Lachy_ has joined #html-wg
20:45:31 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
21:20:54 [Sander]
Sander has joined #html-wg
21:23:22 [Sander]
Sander has joined #html-wg
21:39:57 [mjs_]
mjs_ has joined #html-wg
21:55:28 [hyatt]
hyatt has joined #html-wg
22:13:18 [sbuluf]
sbuluf has joined #html-wg
22:29:10 [aroben]
aroben has joined #html-wg
22:31:31 [aroben_]
aroben_ has joined #html-wg
22:32:17 [ChrisWilson]
ChrisWilson has joined #html-wg
22:48:54 [Lachy_]
Lachy_ has joined #html-wg
23:21:27 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
23:23:43 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
23:28:52 [mjs_]
mjs_ has joined #html-wg
23:48:57 [hyatt]
hyatt has joined #html-wg
23:58:15 [aroben__]
aroben__ has joined #html-wg