IRC log of tsdtf on 2008-02-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:31:06 [RRSAgent]

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13:31:07 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-tsdtf-irc

13:31:13 [Zakim]

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13:31:22 [shadi]

zakim, this will be tsd

13:31:22 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start now

13:31:30 [shadi]

meeting: TSD TF

13:31:45 [shadi]

chair: CarlosV, Christophe

13:31:52 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started

13:32:10 [carlosI]

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13:32:26 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2008Feb/0009.html

13:32:46 [shadi]

agenda+ Next steps for current repository content

13:32:50 [Christophe]

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13:32:56 [shadi]

agenda+ Review of test samples

13:33:07 [shadi]

agenda+ Naming convention and test suite ID in metadata

13:33:21 [shadi]

agenda+ API test tool technique & WCAG test procedures

13:33:39 [shadi]

agenda+ Review of action items

13:33:45 [CarlosV]

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13:34:06 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

13:34:06 [Zakim]

On the phone I see no one

13:34:37 [shadi]

zakim, CarlosV, Christophe and Shadi are on the call

13:34:37 [Zakim]

I don't understand you, shadi

13:35:13 [shadi]

zakim, this is TSD

13:35:13 [Zakim]

shadi, this was already WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM

13:35:14 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; that matches WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM

13:35:25 [shadi]

zakim, who is here?

13:35:25 [Zakim]

On the phone I see no one

13:35:26 [Zakim]

On IRC I see CarlosV, Christophe, carlosI, Zakim, RRSAgent, shadi

13:37:21 [shadi]

regrets: Vangelis, Michael

13:37:50 [shadi]

scribe: Shadi

13:38:00 [shadi]

agenda?

13:38:49 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

13:38:49 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Next steps for current repository content" taken up [from shadi]

13:39:23 [shadi]

CS: ~200 tests that map to previous WCAG drafts, not up-to-date

13:39:44 [shadi]

...maybe should start updating instead of reviewing them

13:40:00 [shadi]

CV: when is the review process ending for WCAG LCWD?

13:40:13 [shadi]

..how long it will take to process the comments

13:40:41 [shadi]

CS: not sure if we'll be ready before the end of march

13:41:11 [shadi]

...risk that if we update stuff they may end up chaning again

13:41:21 [shadi]

s/chaning/changing

13:42:23 [Christophe]

Editor's draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/

13:42:28 [shadi]

SAZ: is there an editors draft planned? it usually has notes on what may change

13:42:44 [shadi]

CS: january 28th is the latest

13:45:08 [Christophe]

Diff-marked version: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/Overview-diff.html

13:46:02 [shadi]

SAZ: think updating the tests may be a good idea, agree with the concern

13:46:10 [shadi]

...maybe editors draft could help

13:46:22 [shadi]

CS: could ask editors if there are such plans

13:48:04 [shadi]

action: CS ask WCAG editors if there will be an editors draft available, that marks all the areas of the document that are in question to change (so that we can update the tests for the stable parts of the document)

13:55:21 [shadi]

CI: in metadata we reference techniques, but these are far from being stable

13:55:38 [shadi]

...can't reference techniques that may change

13:59:09 [shadi]

...not our priority to update the current tests, prefer to improve the review process

13:59:28 [shadi]

...tim's review raised several questions, better to address these first

14:00:50 [shadi]

CV: ideal scenario is to be able to update the test while reviewing it

14:01:00 [shadi]

...but no firm position either way

14:02:22 [shadi]

...may not make sense to upload them now if they won't be updated

14:04:12 [shadi]

SAZ: are there any timing constraints?

14:04:19 [shadi]

CV: no, project is over

14:04:35 [Tim]

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14:04:42 [Zakim]

'restarting to recover bridge state'

14:05:46 [shadi]

RESOLUTION: don't update the tests yet, see first if there will be guidance from WCAG WG

14:05:56 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 4

14:07:09 [shadi]

zakim, this is tsd

14:07:09 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; that matches WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM

14:07:20 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:07:20 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Shadi, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, ??P4, Carlos_Iglesias, Cynthia_Shelly, Tim_Boland

14:08:02 [Christophe]

zakim, ??P4 is Christophe_Strobbe

14:08:02 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe; got it

14:08:17 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 4

14:08:17 [Zakim]

I see nothing on the agenda

14:08:30 [shadi]

Topic: API test tool technique & WCAG test procedures

14:08:55 [shadi]

Cynthia: idea is to test widgets like desktop applications

14:09:14 [shadi]

...we have inspect32 tool that help evaluate the API

14:09:45 [shadi]

...helps compare data going to the API vs what you see on the screen

14:10:03 [shadi]

...could help for instance test for WAI-ARIA

14:10:23 [shadi]

...can see if information is truely programmatically determined

14:10:27 [Christophe]

zakim, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas is Carlos_Velasco

14:10:27 [Zakim]

+Carlos_Velasco; got it

14:10:47 [shadi]

...there are some issues, for example lists and tables don't get mapped

14:10:56 [shadi]

CV: so you test in the DOM?

14:11:34 [shadi]

Cynthia: not in the DOM, in the Windows API - iAccess (?)

14:11:52 [shadi]

...states and roles are exposed to the API

14:12:11 [shadi]

...really useful techniques, faster than examining code

14:13:37 [shadi]

SAZ: several steps between code and API, how does platform impact this?

14:14:16 [shadi]

Cynthia: mapping same for Windows Firefox or IE, didn't test on other OS

14:15:11 [shadi]

...it is browser dependent to a certain degree

14:16:09 [shadi]

CV: did not yet address WAI-ARIA

14:16:50 [shadi]

...only solutions was to write widgets and describe how they interact

14:17:20 [shadi]

Cynthia: this is a much faster way to test, for example if things that look like links are in fact links

14:17:46 [shadi]

CS: where is this tool?

14:18:17 [shadi]

Cynthia: it's freely available, IBM also has a similar tool

14:21:13 [Christophe]

URL: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3755582A-A707-460A-BF21-1373316E13F0&displaylang=en

14:21:27 [shadi]

SAZ: this relates to work of User Agent working group and the protocols and formats WG

14:21:42 [shadi]

...need to keep that relationship in mind

14:22:51 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelly

14:28:58 [shadi]

Topic: Upcoming meetings

14:29:15 [shadi]

Meeting on Tuesday 26th

14:29:29 [Zakim]

-Tim_Boland

14:29:30 [shadi]

tentative meeting on Tuesday 4th March

14:29:33 [Zakim]

-Carlos_Velasco

14:29:36 [Zakim]

-Shadi

14:29:38 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

14:29:39 [Zakim]

-Carlos_Iglesias

14:29:40 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended

14:29:41 [Zakim]

Attendees were Shadi, Carlos_Iglesias, Cynthia_Shelly, Tim_Boland, Christophe_Strobbe, Carlos_Velasco

14:30:05 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:30:09 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:30:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi

14:30:10 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:30:19 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

14:30:19 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-tsdtf-actions.rdf :

14:30:19 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: CS ask WCAG editors if there will be an editors draft available, that marks all the areas of the document that are in question to change (so that we can update the tests for the stable parts of the document) [1]

14:30:19 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-tsdtf-irc#T13-48-04

14:30:24 [shadi]

zakim, bye

14:30:24 [Zakim]

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