15:56:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcls
15:56:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-irc
15:56:23 <vipul> rrsagent, make logs world-visible
15:56:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcls
15:56:44 <vipul> Zakim, this will be BIONT
15:56:44 <Zakim> ok, vipul; I see SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:53 <vipul> Zakim, who's here?
15:56:53 <Zakim> SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM has not yet started, vipul
15:56:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Don, vipul, ericP_, ericP
15:58:04 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
15:58:04 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
15:58:06 <Zakim> SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM has now started
15:58:07 <Zakim> +EricP
15:58:21 <Zakim> +Vipul_Kashyap
15:58:34 <vipul> Zakim, who's here?
15:58:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, Vipul_Kashyap
15:58:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Don, vipul, ericP_, ericP
15:59:03 <Helen> Helen has joined #hcls
15:59:15 <LeeF_> LeeF_ has joined #hcls
15:59:39 <Zakim> +Don_Doherty
16:00:04 <vipul> Zakim, who's here?
16:00:18 <holger_stenzhorn> holger_stenzhorn has joined #hcls
16:00:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, Vipul_Kashyap, Don_Doherty
16:00:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see LeeF_, Helen, Zakim, RRSAgent, Don, vipul, ericP_, ericP
16:01:07 <Zakim> + +46.4.63.3.aaaa
16:01:26 <vipul> Zakim, aaaa is Bosse
16:01:37 <Zakim> +Bosse; got it
16:01:39 <Zakim> +??P38
16:01:43 <Zakim> + +1.813.396.aabb
16:01:56 <vipul> Zakim, P38 is Helen
16:01:56 <Zakim> sorry, vipul, I do not recognize a party named 'P38'
16:02:04 <Zakim> +??P42
16:02:06 <vipul> Zakim aabb is Rachel
16:02:22 <vipul> Zakim ??P38 is Helen
16:02:31 <vipul> Zakim, ??P43 is Holger
16:02:31 <Zakim> I already had ??P43 as Jerome_Simeon, vipul
16:02:47 <vipul> Zakim, ??P42 is Holger
16:02:47 <Zakim> +Holger; got it
16:03:05 <vipul> Zakim, who's here?
16:03:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, Vipul_Kashyap, Don_Doherty, Bosse, ??P38, +1.813.396.aabb, Holger
16:03:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see holger_stenzhorn, LeeF, Helen, Zakim, RRSAgent, Don, vipul, ericP_, ericP
16:03:13 <Zakim> +Tony
16:03:22 <vipul> Zakim, Tony is Jyotir
16:03:32 <ericP> Zakim, +1.813.396.aabb is Rachel
16:03:34 <Zakim> +Jyotir; got it
16:03:34 <vipul> Zakim, aabb is Rachel
16:03:45 <vipul> Zakim, ??P38 is Helen
16:03:48 <Zakim> +Rachel; got it
16:03:54 <Zakim> sorry, vipul, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:04:00 <Zakim> +Helen; got it
16:04:09 <vipul> Zakim, who's here?
16:04:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, Vipul_Kashyap, Don_Doherty, Bosse, Helen, Rachel, Holger, Jyotir
16:04:22 <Jyoti> Jyoti has joined #hcls
16:04:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see holger_stenzhorn, LeeF, Helen, Zakim, RRSAgent, Don, vipul, ericP_, ericP
16:06:05 <ericP> holger_stenzhorn: 3 telecons so far
16:06:22 <ericP> ... been co-developing this ontology in another project
16:06:32 <ericP> ... will develop the examples on the slides
16:06:50 <ericP> ... should have something posted on the wiki in two weeks
16:07:43 <ericP> Bosse: kersten and i will follow same approach for the 2nd patient
16:07:58 <ericP> topic: Patient Data in X Ontology
16:08:32 <ericP> Bosse: i think alan has posted the (ontology?) on the wiki
16:08:57 <vipul> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/rough-discussion-realist-view
16:09:53 <ericP> holger: this ontology is being developed at the EU Advanced Clinical Genomic Trial
16:10:09 <ericP> ... targeted at urinary tract cancer
16:10:21 <ericP> ... been in dev for 1.5-2 years
16:10:45 <ericP> ... propose Bosse et al to look at this ontology
16:11:28 <ericP> q+ to ask what the comparitive investment is
16:11:49 <holger_stenzhorn> www.ifomis.org/wiki/ACGT 
16:12:33 <ericP> zakim, ack me
16:12:33 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask what the comparitive investment is
16:12:35 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:13:00 <ericP> holger_stenzhorn: one of the developers in Christian X
16:13:11 <ericP> ... he has been talking with kersten et al
16:13:17 <ericP> ... so there is overlap
16:13:52 <ericP> ... is not developed in a collaborative environment
16:14:44 <ericP> ... we don't know if we *can* develop it
16:14:46 <ericP> vipul: we haven't chosen an ontology
16:14:56 <ericP> ... none of them have been used in the real world
16:15:09 <ericP> ... we want to see if they work for our use cases
16:15:21 <ericP> ... there are standards out there already: RIM, LTTM
16:16:04 <ericP> ... if we go to the trials folks, we'll be more appealing if it aligns with SDTM
16:16:34 <Helen> +q
16:17:01 <ericP> holger_stenzhorn: we worked with clinical and biomedical experts
16:17:10 <ericP> ... we extracted the relations with them
16:17:18 <ericP> ... also looked at medra
16:17:37 <ericP> ... trying to fulfill the needs of clinician
16:17:48 <ericP> vipul: there are two kinds of clinical users:
16:17:57 <ericP> ... .. the folks doing the trials
16:18:08 <ericP> ... .. the docs doing healthcare
16:18:26 <ericP> q+ to note that re-use when possible makes semweb work
16:18:33 <ericP> ack Helen 
16:18:49 <ericP> vipul: tricky getting these two communities together
16:19:59 <ericP> Helen: if we put lots of effort into this ont, will i be able to re-use it in X scenarios?
16:20:27 <ericP> vipul: we target patient recruitment and EMR
16:20:38 <ericP> ... we first need to show something working in this scope
16:21:07 <ericP> ... these are two very different use cases
16:21:20 <ericP> ... if we take up adverse drug detection, we may find that it already works, or that we need to modify it
16:22:03 <ericP> Helen: so we will examine the 10 use cases and try to use HL7 properties
16:22:50 <ericP> vipul: while we dev this ontology, we want to keep compatibility between EMR and clinical trials
16:23:29 <ericP> ... you are right, there is always the danger that we will develop artifacts that are use-case-specific
16:25:42 <ericP> vipul: this ontology will try to model:
16:25:48 <ericP> ... .. book-keeping
16:26:08 <ericP> ... .. clinical trial eligability
16:26:14 <ericP> ... .. patient data
16:26:37 <ericP> holger_stenzhorn: we have been developing this ont by the clinical trial needs
16:27:01 <ericP> ... we have done extensive studies in cancer research
16:27:19 <ericP> ... have tried to model this from the clinician and the publication side
16:28:21 <ericP> ... want to use the data to manage patients (EDT), but also to model cancer (tumor size, position)
16:29:04 <vipul> CRF, CDASH, NCI Thesaurus
16:29:40 <ericP> holger_stenzhorn: are clinical partners (CDISC most prominently)
16:29:57 <ericP> ... we are modeling that (CDISC) data in our ontology
16:30:33 <ericP> ... our project partners have created facilities to represent our instance data to CDISC
16:31:05 <ericP> vipul: Rachel and Jennifer (NIHS) are modeling this data in STDM
16:31:20 <vipul> COI = Clinical Observations Interoperability
16:31:38 <ericP> holger_stenzhorn: Christian is already working with Jennifer
16:31:48 <holger_stenzhorn> Cristian Cocos
16:32:04 <ericP> s/Christian/Cristian/
16:33:06 <ericP> ACTION: holger to invite Cristian Cocos to present at one of these telecons
16:33:25 <ericP> vipul: ultimately we want to map this to other types of data
16:33:50 <holger_stenzhorn> ACGT
16:34:00 <ericP> ACTION: holger to get more info on mappins from ACGT to CDISC
16:34:24 <ericP> q+ to offer to help set up Cristian's presentation
16:34:34 <ericP> Helen: how much to you rely on reasoning?
16:35:20 <holger_stenzhorn> www.eu-acgt.org
16:35:50 <ericP> ... can i enter a patient data and search on some clasification (such as eligibility for a clinical trial)
16:36:41 <vipul> http://www.ifomis.org/acgt/1.0
16:37:17 <ericP> holger_stenzhorn: this sort of thing is in the project description
16:37:32 <ericP> ack me
16:37:33 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to note that re-use when possible makes semweb work and to offer to help set up Cristian's presentation
16:38:06 <ericP> holger_stenzhorn: weill see Christian next week
16:38:20 <ericP> ... expect to join in two weeks
16:38:39 <ericP> s/join/next join COI call/
16:38:48 <holger_stenzhorn> aaah ;-)
16:40:08 <vipul> topic: RDF Representation of Detailed Clinical Models/Clinical Element Models
16:40:50 <vipul> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=DCMRDFPatient1.ppt
16:42:22 <ericP> -> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=DCMRDFPatient1.ppt modeled Intermounted Healthcare data
16:44:19 <ericP> [slide 4]
16:45:38 <ericP> Helen: is DizzinessAssert a new class in the dcm namespace?
16:46:53 <ericP> vipul: dcm as a set of types, e.g. Assertion
16:47:18 <ericP> ... they have internal IDs for the codes, but they may them to external standards
16:47:30 <ericP> ... the prob is that SNOMED codes get changed
16:50:04 <ericP> Rachel: the codes should always be there. they just indicate that it's retired
16:50:36 <ericP> Helen: if we link to SNOMED, we can always add another arc as new models emerge
16:51:50 <ericP> vipul: you may retire one code and replace it with several
16:52:06 <ericP> [... scribe got too involved to scribe effectively]
16:53:15 <ericP> ... they have used this model for change mapping
16:53:24 <ericP> ... but change mapping is outside our scope
16:53:36 <ericP> [slide 5]
16:55:10 <ericP> vipul: LOINC has size axise (pl SP?)
16:56:29 <ericP> -> http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/49/4/624/T2 LOINC major axes
16:58:36 <ericP> [slide 6]
16:59:58 <ericP> q+ to ask how i can give them feedback on their model?
17:00:29 <ericP> vipul: they have alligned with HL7, as well as termsets like LOINC
17:01:35 <ericP> ... DCM has a specialized model which i have expressed as RDF
17:01:38 <ericP> q-
17:04:54 <Zakim> -Jyotir
17:05:01 <Jyoti> Jyoti has left #hcls
17:07:30 <Zakim> -Rachel
17:08:42 <Zakim> -Holger
17:08:44 <Zakim> -EricP
17:08:45 <Zakim> -Vipul_Kashyap
17:08:46 <Zakim> -Bosse
17:08:47 <Zakim> -Don_Doherty
17:08:50 <Zakim> -Helen
17:08:50 <Zakim> SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM has ended
17:08:51 <Zakim> Attendees were EricP, Vipul_Kashyap, Don_Doherty, +46.4.63.3.aaaa, Bosse, Holger, Jyotir, Rachel, Helen
17:08:59 <ericP> Zakim, please draft minutes
17:08:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please draft minutes', ericP
17:09:06 <ericP> rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:09:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html ericP
17:09:15 <ericP> rrsagent, please make log world-visible
17:12:52 <holger_stenzhor1> holger_stenzhor1 has joined #hcls
17:17:13 <holger_stenzhor1> holger_stenzhor1 has left #hcls
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