IRC log of tagmem on 2008-02-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:50:00 [RRSAgent]
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17:50:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-tagmem-irc
17:50:06 [Zakim]
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17:50:13 [Stuart]
zakim, this will be tag
17:50:13 [Zakim]
ok, Stuart; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
17:51:02 [Norm]
Ten minutes!?
17:51:06 [Norm]
Crikey!
17:51:12 [DanC_lap]
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17:53:08 [raman]
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17:53:34 [raman]
any one have thoughts on what the filename for my hash in url finding should be?
17:53:55 [DanC_lap]
hash-in-url.html
17:54:08 [raman]
It's currently hash-in-url.html
17:54:32 [raman]
we think alike;-) that's what is in cvs at present.
17:54:41 [Stuart]
:-)
17:54:53 [raman]
shouldn't it be the valentine-day's pinks?
17:54:58 [raman]
or at least chocolates?
17:55:27 [Stuart]
so... raman that's your work on webApplicationState-60?
17:55:56 [raman]
Stewart -- could you give me a pointer to the TAGissue that this finding addresses so I make the appropriate noises in the right places in the abstract?
17:56:02 [Stuart]
well... it's 'blues' when it can't be 'pinks'.
17:56:33 [Stuart]
Ok.. that'll be jonathan and/or me.
17:56:57 [DanC_lap]
I'd ask to be excused but for abbrevURIs.
17:57:16 [DanC_lap]
we're expecting timbl? interesting; he gave regrets for an earlier meeting today
17:57:33 [Stuart]
yes... he gave regrets for 21st
17:57:50 [Stuart]
ie. yes I am expecting him today
17:58:08 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
17:58:15 [Zakim]
+Raman
17:58:52 [Zakim]
+??P1
17:59:02 [Stuart]
zakim, ??p1 is me
17:59:02 [Zakim]
+Stuart; got it
17:59:54 [DanC_lap]
f2f agenda? we did that last week, no?
17:59:54 [Ashok]
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17:59:55 [Stuart]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/60
18:00:25 [DanC_lap]
I don't see any specific questions about the ftf agenda in the today's agenda. I don't have any general input.
18:00:36 [DanC_lap]
I don't see any @@s in http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/02/26-agenda
18:01:10 [Zakim]
+Ashok_Malhotra
18:01:28 [DanC_lap]
things that don't have @@s are done, in my book
18:02:27 [Stuart]
zakim, mute me
18:02:27 [Zakim]
Stuart should now be muted
18:02:43 [Stuart]
zakim, unmute me
18:02:43 [Zakim]
Stuart should no longer be muted
18:03:14 [noah]
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18:03:24 [Zakim]
+Norm
18:03:34 [Zakim]
+Noah_Mendelsohn
18:04:16 [ht]
Meeting:TAG Telcon
18:04:22 [ht]
Chair: Stuart Williams
18:04:25 [Zakim]
+DanC
18:04:29 [ht]
Scribe: Henry S. Thompson
18:04:36 [ht]
ScribeNick: ht
18:04:46 [noah]
zakim, who is here?
18:04:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Raman, Stuart, Ashok_Malhotra, Norm, Noah_Mendelsohn, DanC
18:04:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see noah, Ashok, raman, DanC_lap, Zakim, RRSAgent, Stuart, Norm, ht, trackbot-ng
18:05:02 [ht]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/02/14-agenda
18:05:07 [ht]
zakim, please call ht-781
18:05:07 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
18:05:09 [Zakim]
+Ht
18:05:44 [Zakim]
+alanr
18:06:58 [jar]
jar has joined #tagmem
18:07:06 [ht]
zakim, alan is jar
18:07:06 [Zakim]
+jar; got it
18:08:18 [ht]
SW: DO will join late
18:08:30 [ht]
SW: Agenda slightly changed since yesterday's version
18:09:43 [Zakim]
+DanC.a
18:09:47 [ht]
RESOLVED: Minutes of previous meeting approved: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/02/07-minutes
18:09:56 [Zakim]
+TimBL
18:10:18 [ht]
zakim, disconnect DanC
18:10:18 [Zakim]
DanC is being disconnected
18:10:19 [Zakim]
-DanC
18:10:26 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
18:10:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Raman, Stuart, Ashok_Malhotra, Norm, Noah_Mendelsohn, Ht, jar, DanC.a, TimBL
18:10:33 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, I am DanC
18:10:33 [Zakim]
ok, DanC_lap, I now associate you with DanC.a
18:10:52 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, DanC.a is DanC
18:10:52 [Zakim]
+DanC; got it
18:11:18 [ht]
SW: Meeting on 21 Feb, DanC to scribe
18:11:33 [timbl]
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18:11:49 [ht]
SW: Regrets from TBL for 21 Feb
18:12:09 [ht]
Topic: Issue abbreviatedURI-56 (ISSUE-56)
18:12:24 [ht]
See http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/56
18:12:56 [ht]
SW: NW, HST and SW have reviewed
18:12:58 [noah]
Norm's comments seemed OK to me. I particularly liked Henry's comment on QNames in attribute values.
18:13:06 [ht]
NW: To summarize: Just Say No
18:13:20 [ht]
DC: It's in their charter
18:13:31 [ht]
TBL: It addresses a real need
18:13:58 [ht]
DC: Is it in their charter?
18:14:07 [ht]
JR: Yes it is
18:14:16 [timbl]
s/It's in their charter/Is it in theor charter?/
18:14:25 [timbl]
s/or/ir
18:14:59 [timbl]
q+
18:15:02 [ht]
DC: So, NW, still opposed
18:15:05 [ht]
?
18:15:32 [Stuart]
q?
18:15:43 [ht]
NW: Yes -- I think the proposed solution is too confusable with QNames and URIs themselves
18:15:47 [noah]
q+ to ask how much of the rationale for CURIE is the claim that QNames don't work in attributes.
18:16:30 [ht]
NW: The "Not appropriate for attr vals" argument is just wrong
18:16:53 [ht]
TBL: QNames weren't intented for content at all, see WebArch for dangers
18:17:17 [ht]
NW: They didn't point to that at all, if that's what they meant, the argument works equally well against CURIEs
18:17:49 [Stuart]
<link property="prefix" content="myPrefix" href="http://www.example.com/myPrefix/" >
18:17:50 [ht]
NW: They use both the xmlns...= and other mechanisms to establish prefix binding
18:18:16 [Stuart]
q?
18:18:39 [ht]
DC: If you know to look for a CURIE, you know to look for this 'prefix' property
18:19:15 [ht]
NW: But there are no limits on the number of ways different specs could specify prefix binding mechanism
18:19:52 [Stuart]
ack timbl
18:19:53 [ht]
NW: Whereas at least for xmlns, XSLT knows how to find the binding
18:20:00 [Stuart]
ack noah
18:20:00 [Zakim]
noah, you wanted to ask how much of the rationale for CURIE is the claim that QNames don't work in attributes.
18:20:31 [ht]
NM: Saying "Can't use QNames in attr vals" is too simple
18:20:44 [ht]
... So how much of the rest of their argument goes away
18:20:58 [ht]
... Does the whole thing go away?
18:20:59 [timbl]
q+ to mention improving XML in general (bare params are qnames, qnames ana URIs interchangable in some way, etc , but also mention N3
18:21:02 [ht]
HST: No
18:21:43 [ht]
NW: No, the req't is to use isbn:1234 to identify something, and 1234 is not an (XML) Name, so isbn:1234 isn't a QName
18:22:27 [ht]
SW: DC asks what we're doing with this agenda item
18:23:15 [ht]
... we have to decide to endorse some or all of the comments
18:23:21 [ht]
HT: Or add some new ones
18:23:44 [ht]
HT: I wrote mine as input to a TAG comment
18:24:01 [ht]
SW: I wrote mine directly to the WG, TAG could endorse
18:24:05 [ht]
NW: ditto
18:24:06 [ht]
q+
18:24:16 [noah]
q?
18:24:20 [ht]
ack timbl
18:24:20 [Zakim]
timbl, you wanted to mention improving XML in general (bare params are qnames, qnames ana URIs interchangable in some way, etc , but also mention N3
18:25:01 [noah]
How about XML Namespaces 1.1 5th Edition?
18:25:08 [DanC_lap]
(yeah... where is XML 1.1 in the process? why not fix this isbn:1234 problem while we're fixing the unicode issues?)
18:25:16 [Stuart]
FYI... my input landed on www-html-editor@w3.org http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JanMar/0007.html
18:25:29 [ht]
TBL: Clean thing to do is fix this for everyone, because you can't use URIs and QNames interchangeably, either in attr values, or as elt names
18:25:47 [DanC_lap]
q+ to ask about allowing isbn:1234 in XML 1.1
18:25:50 [noah]
(I suppose I should admit that I personally have at best mixed feelings about the XML 1.0 5th edition proposal, so the proposal above was made somewhat in jest.)
18:25:57 [ht]
... Pbly ridiculous to think about the TAG proposing an XML 2.0
18:26:28 [ht]
... I mostly use N3, where prefixed names and URIs are interchangeable
18:26:33 [jar]
but n3 (unlike sparql) doesn't support isbn:1234
18:26:46 [ht]
... but it's not embeddable, because it uses angle brackets
18:26:46 [Stuart]
ack ht
18:26:53 [ht]
scribenick: SW
18:26:56 [DanC_lap]
n3 will probably pick up isbn:1234 from sparql
18:27:06 [Stuart]
ht: two distinct things...
18:27:09 [timbl]
Yes.
18:27:15 [timbl]
:123 being different from 1234
18:27:23 [timbl]
(and from 123!)
18:28:07 [DanC_lap]
q+ to note that the QName datatypte doesn't fit XML Schema's definition of a datatype
18:28:09 [noah]
Henry, we do have the problem that XML Schema doesn't quite clearly allow for new primtive types.
18:28:18 [Stuart]
... first: if framed as a new xsd datatype with lexical and values space... and mappings... and a constraint to being used only in new languages...
18:28:28 [noah]
Certainly using it in a Schema Structures document would be problematic, unless you would propose it as a subtype of string?
18:28:35 [Zakim]
+Dave_Orchard
18:28:42 [Stuart]
...then, fine... go ahead, but stay away from href.
18:29:00 [DanC_lap]
q+ to give an example: the value of a QName isn't determined by its lexical form: abc:def means one thing when abc: is bound one way and another when abc: is bound another way
18:29:12 [Stuart]
...the Schema WG is in serious discussion about allowing new xsd datatypes.
18:29:29 [noah]
I'm not happy prejudging the pros and cons of whether XML Schema should allow for user defined primitives. The upsides are clear, but it raises very serious interoperability concerns for Schemas in particular.
18:29:56 [DanC_lap]
(what's not a valid URI?)
18:30:05 [Stuart]
...second: I observe that if we did all of that they would not get what they wanted because it would not make htp:12345 a URI.
18:30:14 [ht]
Anything of the form ...#1234
18:30:42 [DanC_lap]
let's fix that bug that 1234 isn't a name.
18:30:46 [Stuart]
s/htp:/....#/
18:31:00 [noah]
Norm: What Henry means is, if those ...s resolve to somethign of media type application/xml, then 1234 isn't a good fragid per the pertinent specs.
18:31:13 [DanC_lap]
1234 is a perfectly good name in many business contexts, ISBN being the one already introduced in this conversation.
18:31:35 [Stuart]
ht: is unaware of a media type where [didn't catch] is a valid ???
18:31:39 [noah]
Yes Dan, but the question is, which media types allow for them in fragids?
18:31:49 [jar]
has curie:isbn:12345 been proposed?...
18:31:54 [Norm]
q+ to observe that I'm not sure Henry is right about the HTML 4.01 case. 12.2.1 does not say that @name on "a" has to be an NCName AFAICS
18:32:12 [Stuart]
ht: refers to email to XML core.
18:32:35 [noah]
Norm, when you come up on the queue, could you also clarify XHTML? I would have thought that would be more restrictive, for better or worse?
18:32:59 [Stuart]
q?
18:33:17 [DanC_lap]
ack danc
18:33:17 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to ask about allowing isbn:1234 in XML 1.1 and to note that the QName datatypte doesn't fit XML Schema's definition of a datatype and to give an example: the value
18:33:17 [ht]
scribenick: ht
18:33:20 [Zakim]
... of a QName isn't determined by its lexical form: abc:def means one thing when abc: is bound one way and another when abc: is bound another way
18:33:51 [noah]
q+ to talk about XML 1.0 5th edition
18:34:08 [ht]
DC: XML 1.0 5e is where in the process? We're asking them to change how names are parsed, can we do this too?
18:34:11 [timbl]
q+ to whone about scripting languages and JSON etc
18:34:29 [Stuart]
q+ daveo
18:34:33 [Stuart]
q?
18:34:44 [timbl]
I wonder what happens in E4X
18:34:54 [Stuart]
ack norm
18:34:54 [Zakim]
Norm, you wanted to observe that I'm not sure Henry is right about the HTML 4.01 case. 12.2.1 does not say that @name on "a" has to be an NCName AFAICS
18:34:57 [ht]
DC: QName is inconsistently defined in Schema -- abc:xyz can denote two distinct values at two points in a document
18:35:36 [DanC_lap]
(the use of #123 is widely practice, all the way back to the 1st HTML document I ever saw; I got TimBL to change the WorldWideWeb app to use #z1 but the rest of the world doesn't bother.)
18:35:37 [ht]
NW: In both HTML and XHTML you can use the NAME attribute on anchors, which doesn't say anything about being an NCname
18:35:56 [ht]
... I don't think we can or should allow 1234 to be an element or attribute name
18:36:00 [ht]
DC: Why not
18:36:23 [ht]
NW: I don't know of any programming language which doesn't distinguish between identifiers and numbers
18:36:28 [Stuart]
q?
18:36:33 [raman]
in json, I can have a key called 1234
18:36:56 [ht]
TBL: XML is close to a programming language, and I don't want to have a number/name confusion
18:37:01 [DanC_lap]
(even in the javascript case, some xml names have to be mangled in order to fit. so 1234 would have to get mangled in some cases. such is life.)
18:37:06 [Stuart]
q?
18:37:21 [ht]
TVR: JSON today allows numeric keys, which _ipso facto_ can't be mapped to XML
18:37:42 [ht]
TBL: Same pblm in e4x
18:38:02 [ht]
DC: Some XML names (minus signs) already fail to map to Javascript names
18:38:05 [jar]
q+ to say (briefly) that the reviews are negative. there's a real problem & we should figure
18:38:07 [jar]
out how to be constructive
18:38:53 [DanC_lap]
close action-80
18:38:53 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-80 Review http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-curie-20071126/ closed
18:39:01 [DanC_lap]
close action-81
18:39:01 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-81 Review http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-curie-20071126/ closed
18:39:07 [Stuart]
ack noah
18:39:07 [Zakim]
noah, you wanted to talk about XML 1.0 5th edition
18:39:07 [DanC_lap]
close action-82
18:39:07 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-82 Review http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-curie-20071126/ closed
18:39:07 [ht]
SW: What about the three comments on the table: Deem relevant actions closed, endorse them to the WG, add anything further ?
18:39:29 [ht]
NW: Further discussion of names/numbers/XML vNext out of order?
18:40:13 [ht]
SW: Yes -- we'll discuss that another time
18:40:21 [Stuart]
q?
18:40:28 [Stuart]
ack tim
18:40:28 [Zakim]
timbl, you wanted to whone about scripting languages and JSON etc
18:40:28 [timbl]
q-
18:40:34 [DanC_lap]
ack dav
18:40:36 [Stuart]
ack daveo
18:41:22 [ht]
DO: Did DC say that XML 1.1 had become XML 1.0 5e -- true?
18:41:31 [ht]
NM: Not quite
18:41:54 [Stuart]
ack jar
18:41:54 [Zakim]
jar, you wanted to say (briefly) that the reviews are negative. there's a real problem & we should figure
18:41:54 [ht]
DO: I would have concerns in our future discussion
18:42:35 [raman]
Strongly concur with Jonathan.
18:42:50 [DanC_lap]
(I think it's quite reasonable for curies to go 5 different ways in 5 contexts; abbreviations are a per-language, local design issue.)
18:42:51 [ht]
JR: I'm concerned that the three reviews are largely negative, but the problem is real, and they're asking for help to stop it going in 5 different directions
18:42:53 [raman]
TAG saying "no" will just get us ignored; may html5 be a lesson to all
18:43:11 [ht]
DC: So what should they do?
18:43:46 [ht]
JR: We need to at least recognise their requirements
18:43:53 [Stuart]
q?
18:43:57 [ht]
... not asking that we give the solution
18:44:14 [DanC_lap]
(I think the thing to do is to change the fact that 1234 is not a name in XML, or at least in namespaces)
18:44:56 [Stuart]
q?
18:44:59 [DanC_lap]
-1 use say that curie is an XML schema data type. it's not.
18:45:10 [ht]
HT: I would not object if they were clear that this is a new datatype for new uses
18:45:16 [Zakim]
-Dave_Orchard
18:45:20 [Zakim]
+DOrchard
18:45:47 [ht]
NW: I could go with that, but not with taking a position on defining a new built-in simple type
18:45:52 [Stuart]
q+
18:45:59 [timbl]
q+ to ask for a list of what softwre would have to be changed. Strt with N3 serializers.
18:46:08 [ht]
s/built-in/primitive/
18:46:53 [ht]
NW: Certainly premature to ask Schema WG to add CURIEs to the next edition
18:47:00 [ht]
... What is your proposal HT?
18:48:03 [ht]
HT: Three things resolved/changed: 1) xmlns binding only; 2) new contexts/new languages only; 3) Provide a simple type definition derived from xs:string
18:48:08 [Ashok]
q+
18:48:32 [noah]
Ah, if you think derived from xs:string does it, then maybe, but I would have thought that like xs:QName it should not be derived from xs:string.
18:50:38 [ht]
SW: In my review I didn't take an overall position, but I do think that for a spec. aimed at language developers/designers is an XSD datatype, so they should provide that, including both lexical and value
18:51:02 [ht]
... The thing they keep saying is that QNames are a subset of CURIEs, but that's clearly false wrt the value
18:51:26 [dorchard]
dorchard has joined #tagmem
18:51:29 [ht]
... they should clean that up
18:51:52 [ht]
... Those are the two substantive parts of my review
18:52:05 [ht]
ack Stuart
18:52:40 [Stuart]
ack timbl
18:52:40 [Zakim]
timbl, you wanted to ask for a list of what softwre would have to be changed. Strt with N3 serializers.
18:52:45 [ht]
DC: Can't have a datatype, because the value is not determined by the lexical form
18:53:49 [DanC_lap]
(n3 is one of the "5 or six different ways" that CURIEs are going, as jar said, ht.)
18:54:12 [ht]
TBL: What software would have to change? We would have to change N3 to accept the kind of things that CURIEs will construct
18:54:27 [raman]
shouldn't needed changes to n3 be balanced against other implementations, and what their needs are?
18:54:40 [ht]
... because of the #1234 problem
18:54:46 [DanC_lap]
yes, n3 changes should be balanced against all the other changes
18:55:08 [jar]
ht, the implications of qnames go way beyond xml - that this is not clear is i think a deficiency of their introduction
18:55:13 [ht]
NM: So you think this will expand the range of URIs to which these things map
18:55:38 [DanC_lap]
q+ to tell the story of #1 vs #z1 and note that the HTML community uses #1 happily despite specs and seems extremely unlikely to do otherwise, so the html5 spec just specifies it.
18:55:39 [ht]
TBL: I will have to change the syntax of N3 to no longer restrict to QNames
18:55:45 [timbl]
People will start to use things of th for m htp://\/dfjhdfhjs/dsfjhfs/sdf//isbn#1234567
18:56:06 [Stuart]
q?
18:56:09 [DanC_lap]
ht: they already do
18:56:10 [noah]
Yes, but just as a clarification, you won't necessarily have to support the CURIE compact syntax or prefix bindings in particular.
18:56:21 [ht]
HT: They are already writing such URIs, why will CURIEs make this worse?
18:56:21 [jar]
ht, standardization! the same curies for everyone who does curies
18:56:29 [timbl]
JK!
18:56:40 [noah]
You will have to make your own compact syntax in N3 capable of dealing with the expanded range of "URIs", I.e. with numerics.
18:56:49 [DanC_lap]
q-
18:57:07 [ht]
SW: We have three reviews that could stand as they are
18:57:08 [timbl]
I was joking that we should open up the full XML 2.0 discussion now.
18:57:32 [ht]
... Propose the TAG endorse all three comments
18:57:39 [ht]
HST, TVR, others: No
18:57:45 [ht]
SW: Propose the TAG say nothing
18:57:47 [ht]
DC: No
18:58:26 [ht]
TVR: I've heard the TAG express some doubts, but I don't think we've looked hard at their use cases, maybe we should get one of them to talk to us
18:58:26 [DanC_lap]
+1 invite somebody
18:58:40 [DanC_lap]
+1 to fix the restriction on XML
18:58:45 [ht]
HT: -1, we don't need to
18:58:54 [Norm]
I concur with Henry
18:58:58 [DanC_lap]
+1 to HT taking the ball
18:59:31 [ht]
HT: I will put together a consensus proposal but not until next week
18:59:37 [jar]
+1 to ht to taking the ball - i'm happy to help but can't do it all
18:59:55 [ht]
TVR: What would that proposal look like?
19:00:02 [jar]
tag should not do design (in this case). should be socratic, i think
19:01:34 [DanC_lap]
(where does 4 weeks come from?)
19:01:39 [ht]
HST: Proposal would be of the form: fix these bugs, and we have no further objections -- might not be what we would have done, but that's not our job
19:02:09 [ht]
HST: 4 weeks was my confusion, this is not a Last Call WD, we are not under explicit time pressure
19:02:22 [DanC_lap]
+1 HT to synthesize something and get jar to look at it for next week
19:02:31 [ht]
TBL: SHould include a discussion of what else will have to change
19:02:57 [ht]
... Does it mean we have to accept identifiers which begin with digits?
19:03:24 [jar]
curies are not specific to xhtml. i agree with ht that correct point of action is not obvious
19:03:30 [ht]
ACTION: HST, with help from JR, to try to formulate something which pulls our input together
19:03:30 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - HST,
19:03:50 [DanC_lap]
trackbot-ng, status
19:03:51 [ht]
ACTION: Henry S, with help from JR, to try to formulate something which pulls our input together
19:03:51 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-100 - S, with help from JR, to try to formulate something which pulls our input together [on Henry S. Thompson - due 2008-02-21].
19:04:48 [ht]
Topic: httpRedirections-57 (ISSUE-57)
19:05:01 [ht]
See http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/57
19:05:14 [ht]
See http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-cooluris-20071217/
19:05:37 [ht]
SW: There was some uncertainty in our interactions with them
19:05:54 [ht]
... We thing the diagram change is crucial to TAG approval
19:06:07 [ht]
... NW is waiting for a final draft to do a further full pass
19:07:02 [ht]
... We should go back to them and say we need a final draft
19:07:13 [ht]
HST: Do you mean we should wait for last call
19:07:17 [DanC_lap]
(there's nothing minor about the change to the diagram.)
19:07:19 [Norm]
q+ to say I don't want a last call, I'd just like the next draft. Hopeflly with revised diagrams and finished "TODOs"
19:07:26 [Ashok]
q-
19:07:29 [DanC_lap]
+1 next draft
19:07:40 [ht]
DC: Not if we think we will have comments
19:07:50 [ht]
HST: What was the disconnect?
19:08:17 [ht]
SW: We thought @@ meant ' We will do more ', but it actually meant ' What does the TAG think of this change '?
19:08:31 [ht]
... and there's the diagram issue
19:09:06 [ht]
DC: I think we didn't communicate the diagram to the clearly enough -- I think I got 'hunh?' feedback from them
19:09:24 [ht]
SW: Can you, DC, clear that up
19:09:39 [ht]
DC: Yes, with help from TimBL -- would take 45 mins
19:10:08 [jar]
diagramming tool: i like omnigraffle ...
19:10:26 [ht]
ACTION: Dan, Tim to produce Visio diagram to send to Leo
19:10:26 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Dan,
19:10:40 [ht]
ACTION: Dan , Tim to produce Visio diagram to send to Leo
19:10:40 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-101 - , Tim to produce Visio diagram to send to Leo [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-02-21].
19:10:54 [DanC_lap]
trackbot-ng, status
19:10:56 [dorchard]
I was liking violet for the versioning files..
19:11:29 [DanC_lap]
yes, I like violet. if timbl can stand it, we'll use that, maybe
19:11:41 [ht]
SW: I need to set some expectations with SWEO, they are short on time
19:11:44 [DanC_lap]
violet is nice in that I know how to get RDF/OWL from it
19:12:05 [ht]
DanC, I improved (I think :-) your stylesheets for that purpose, will send to you
19:12:06 [Stuart]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sweo-ig/2008Feb/0021
19:12:39 [DanC_lap]
(I struggle a bit with email interactions with SWEO; I keep finding their mail stuck in my klunky spam defenses.)
19:12:59 [Stuart]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-cooluris-20071217/#distinguishing
19:14:00 [ht]
DC: Should Tuesday night group look at this?
19:14:10 [ht]
TBL: [Maybe]
19:14:32 [jar]
cswg is not a discussion really.... we had about 50 people at the last one
19:14:35 [Stuart]
q?
19:16:32 [Stuart]
ack norm
19:16:32 [Zakim]
Norm, you wanted to say I don't want a last call, I'd just like the next draft. Hopeflly with revised diagrams and finished "TODOs"
19:17:21 [ht]
NW: I do not require a Last Call draft, will review the next draft they complete
19:17:26 [ht]
SW: I will go back to Leo
19:17:35 [Stuart]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-cooluris-20071217/#distinguishing
19:18:30 [jar]
it almost ended in dec. renewed until april
19:20:01 [DanC_lap]
"This is a First Public Working Draft of an intended W3C Interest Group Note giving a tutorial explaining decisions of the TAG for newcomers to Semantic Web technologies"
19:20:05 [ht]
SW: I would like to see this end up as a NOTE, rather than be dropped
19:20:37 [DanC_lap]
"Febr 2008 - The SWEO Interest group ends." http://www.w3.org/2006/07/sweoig-charter.html#schedule
19:21:12 [DanC_lap]
q+
19:23:07 [timbl]
q+
19:23:22 [timbl]
q+ to suggest it is unfair to hold comments we have now til later
19:25:20 [raman]
ecd
19:25:36 [raman]
apologies for typing in the wrong buffer
19:28:05 [timbl]
Exit Ralph nodding stage left
19:28:24 [Zakim]
-Ht
19:28:35 [noah]
scribenick noah
19:28:38 [timbl]
Exit Henry, panicing
19:28:48 [noah]
SW: The rest of HTTP Redirections will be on next week's agenda.
19:28:52 [noah]
topic: F2F
19:29:10 [noah]
SW: Draft of F2f Agenda is posted. Looks pretty full. Comments solicited.
19:29:23 [DanC_lap]
(places that need work will are marked how? I looked for @@'s and didn't find them.)
19:30:00 [Zakim]
-Norm
19:30:01 [Zakim]
-jar
19:30:01 [Zakim]
-Ashok_Malhotra
19:30:02 [noah]
ADJOURNED
19:30:03 [Zakim]
-Raman
19:30:06 [Zakim]
-Stuart
19:30:09 [Zakim]
-DOrchard
19:30:14 [Zakim]
-Noah_Mendelsohn
19:30:16 [timbl]
Exeunt, chased by a bear
19:30:50 [Zakim]
-TimBL
19:31:03 [DanC_lap]
Zakim, drop DanC
19:31:03 [Zakim]
DanC is being disconnected
19:31:04 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
19:31:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were Raman, Stuart, Ashok_Malhotra, Norm, Noah_Mendelsohn, DanC, Ht, alanr, jar, TimBL, Dave_Orchard, DOrchard
19:48:02 [Norm]
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