15:41:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:41:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/05-rif-irc
15:42:00 <csma> zakim, this will be rif
15:42:00 <Zakim> ok, csma; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
15:42:14 <csma> Meeting: RIF telecon 5 February 2008
15:42:28 <csma> Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
15:42:57 <csma> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Feb/0010.html
15:43:41 <csma> csma has changed the topic to: 5 Feb RIF telecon agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Feb/0010.html
15:44:37 <csma> Regrets: DaveReynolds, PaulaLaviniaPatranjan, FrançoisBry, Leora Morgenstern, PaulVincent
15:49:37 <mdean> mdean has joined #rif
15:56:59 <Hassan> Hassan has joined #rif
16:00:17 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
16:00:18 <Zakim> +??P33
16:00:35 <csma> zakim, ??P33 is me
16:01:04 <Zakim> +csma; got it
16:01:11 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:01:14 <josb> josb has joined #rif
16:01:41 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:01:57 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:01:59 <Zakim> -[IBM]
16:02:01 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:02:02 <StellaMitchell> StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:02:03 <Zakim> +??P42
16:02:12 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:02:14 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:02:17 <ChrisW> zakim, ??P42 is Harold
16:02:20 <Hassan> zakim, ??P42 is me
16:02:22 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
16:02:32 <Zakim> +??P53
16:02:43 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
16:02:46 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
16:02:54 <Zakim> I already had ??P42 as Harold, Hassan
16:02:58 <ChrisW> zakim harold is hassan
16:03:04 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:03:30 <ChrisW> zakim, harold is hassan
16:03:33 <sandro> zakim, Harold is P42
16:03:39 <sandro> oops
16:03:40 <Zakim> +hassan; got it
16:03:50 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'Harold'
16:03:57 <Harold> zakim, [nrcc] is me
16:04:04 <csma> zakim, ??P53 is josb
16:04:13 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
16:04:16 <IgorMozetic> IgorMozetic has joined #rif
16:04:19 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:04:22 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:23 <Zakim> +josb; got it
16:04:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, hassan (muted), Harold, josb, Sandro
16:05:06 <ChrisW> Scribe: Harold
16:05:18 <ChrisW> zakim, because I'm stupid
16:05:21 <Zakim> +??P60
16:05:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'because I'm stupid', ChrisW
16:05:42 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
16:05:44 <Zakim> +??P61
16:05:48 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:05:54 <StellaMitchell> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
16:05:55 <IgorMozetic> zakim, ??P61 is me
16:06:06 <IgorMozetic> zakim, mute me
16:06:07 <AxelPolleres> josb, I would refer you to elisa for such conversations, alternatively! ;-)
16:06:09 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: accept minutes of telecon January 29 
16:06:17 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: accept minutes of telecon January 29 
16:06:26 <Zakim> +StellaMitchell; got it
16:06:32 <Zakim> +IgorMozetic; got it
16:06:46 <Zakim> IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:06:56 <AdrianP> Zakim, mute me
16:07:11 <AxelPolleres> 408 done.
16:07:20 <Zakim> sorry, AdrianP, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:08:23 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:08:26 <Harold> 407 on Jos: Done
16:08:48 <Harold> 402 on Sandro: Done
16:08:58 <Harold> Chris, can you enter your Continued?
16:09:34 <Zakim> + +1.631.833.aaaa
16:09:44 <Harold> 373 on Sandro: TBD by Feb 8.
16:09:46 <MichaelKifer> zakim, aaa is me
16:09:46 <Zakim> sorry, MichaelKifer, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
16:09:58 <MichaelKifer> zakim, aaaa is me
16:09:58 <Zakim> +MichaelKifer; got it
16:10:09 <Harold> 292 on Sandro: Waiting for other doc to settle done.
16:10:22 <Harold> 274 on Paula: sent regrets.
16:10:38 <Harold> 152 on Vincent: sent regrets.
16:11:08 <josb> ack me
16:11:11 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:11:11 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
16:11:18 <ChrisW> TOPIC: Liason
16:11:25 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:11:25 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:11:42 <josb> I will dial in again
16:11:44 <Harold> OWL:
16:11:51 <Zakim> -hassan
16:12:04 <csma> q?
16:12:14 <Harold> Peter responded to Chris' response.
16:12:40 <Harold> (Jan 29th)
16:13:44 <ChrisW> TOPIC: F2F
16:13:46 <Zakim> +josb.a
16:13:50 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f9/
16:14:14 <Harold> TOPIC: OWL
16:14:26 <Harold> Agreed on a solution.
16:14:34 <Harold> Have a draft.
16:14:48 <Harold> Will send to WG if everyone agrees.
16:15:01 <Harold> In two weeks.
16:15:11 <Harold> (all of the above by Jos)
16:15:44 <Harold> Chris: Weekend before f2f?
16:15:51 <AdrianP> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:15:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb, Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer (muted), josb.aa
16:15:55 <Harold> Jos: Yes, what we'll have by then.
16:16:18 <Harold> Feb 10th.
16:16:56 <ChrisW> action: debruij2 to produce first draft of OWL proposal by Feb 17
16:16:56 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - debruij2
16:17:03 <Harold> s/10/17/
16:17:19 <ChrisW> action: jdebrui2 to produce first draft of OWL proposal by Feb 17
16:17:19 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - jdebrui2
16:17:27 <ChrisW> action: jdebruij2 to produce first draft of OWL proposal by Feb 17
16:17:27 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-409 - Produce first draft of OWL proposal by Feb 17 [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2008-02-12].
16:17:30 <Harold> TOPIC: F2F9
16:17:34 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f9/
16:17:51 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/05-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:18:00 <Harold> Christian: Plse fill out that questionnaire asap.
16:18:13 <Harold> ... also if you cant attend.
16:18:22 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
16:18:24 <josb> all fine
16:18:33 <ChrisW> Regrets: DaveReynolds PaulaLaviniaPatranjan FrançoisBry LeoraMorgenstern PaulVincent
16:18:42 <Harold> TOPIC: F2F10
16:19:09 <Harold> Christian: Should start thinking where it should be in May.
16:19:15 <ChrisW> f2f10 should be hosted by someone willing to throw a party
16:19:39 <sandro> heh
16:19:48 <Harold> ... If you want to host it, put it into the wiki: When exactly, etc.
16:20:07 <josb> Axel, Igor?
16:20:15 <csma> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:20:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb (muted), Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer (muted), josb.aa
16:20:21 <Harold> Axel: Can check back, yes.
16:20:41 <Harold> Christian: Preference would be in Europe, to keep balance, but not a necessity.
16:20:49 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:20:49 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:20:51 <AxelPolleres> I will check back with our admins, whether May is good/ok to host f2f.
16:20:51 <IgorMozetic> I can check for F2F10 as well
16:21:10 <Harold> Michael: How to get from the airport to hotel.s
16:21:27 <Harold> Christian: Depends on arrival time.
16:21:46 <Zakim> +Gary_Hallmark
16:22:05 <Harold> ... Place d'Italie: Public transportation.
16:22:24 <Harold> ... Cab would be about 70 EUR.
16:22:56 <Harold> ... but around noon (any rush hour) would take longer.
16:23:20 <Harold> Public transportation would take approx. 1 hour. 
16:23:24 <ChrisW> action: christian to post directions to hotels
16:23:24 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-410 - Post directions to hotels [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2008-02-12].
16:23:25 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:23:25 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:23:56 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:23:56 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:24:00 <Harold> TOPIC: New BLD and FLD
16:24:25 <AdrianP> Zakim, unmute me
16:24:25 <Zakim> sorry, AdrianP, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:24:33 <AdrianP> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:24:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb (muted), Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer, josb.aa, Gary_Hallmark
16:24:37 <GaryHallmark> GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:24:47 <Harold> Christian: Changed link to new BLD.
16:24:53 <csma> q?
16:25:10 <Harold> MichaelK: Basically, mainly rewritten from almost scratch.
16:25:38 <Harold> FLD: Extensibility framework (50-60%)
16:25:48 <Harold> ... NAF, etc. prepared.
16:25:58 <Harold> ... Syntax and Semantics.
16:26:02 <Hassan> q?
16:26:17 <Harold> ... BLD then defined as dialect derived from this framework.
16:26:18 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
16:26:41 <Harold> ... Syntax (1st section) starts with parameters to define the dialect.
16:26:47 <Hassan> Why am I not listed (as Hassan)?
16:26:51 <Harold> ... Rest, without ref to framework.
16:27:14 <Harold> ... Skipping 1st section, you dont need to read framework.
16:27:16 <Hassan> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:27:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb (muted), Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer, josb.aa, Gary_Hallmark
16:27:32 <Harold> Semantics: how to derive BLD semantics from that of FLD.
16:28:04 <Harold> ... Save a few paragraphs.
16:28:05 <csma> q?
16:28:06 <AdrianP> Hassan, I also have problems with zakim
16:28:26 <Harold> XML still missing.
16:29:01 <Harold> Chris: Schedule? Can we freeze? For f2f.
16:29:09 <Harold> Michael: Yes, syntax.
16:29:18 <Harold> ... Semantics, by Fri.
16:29:49 <Harold> ... FLD finished, so derived Semantics of BLD.
16:30:01 <Harold> Christian: Why not include negation into BLD?
16:30:31 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
16:30:49 <Harold> Michael: Different kinds of negation (stable, well-founded, ...), so takes time.
16:31:31 <Harold> Christian: Since BLD is not meant to be minimal, we could add one later.
16:31:50 <Harold> Chris: That's the point where dialect splits happen, so not so easy.
16:32:24 <MoZ> MoZ has joined #rif
16:32:33 <Harold> Michael: Strong negation, perhaps, but still not good to hardcode into BLD.
16:32:37 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/negation ... different forms of negation and why they don't fit together so well.
16:32:49 <Harold> Chris: Let's get reviewers.
16:33:16 <Harold> FLD now.
16:33:50 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/FLD
16:34:06 <Harold> Michael: All in the OLD (Moin Moin) wiki!
16:34:32 <Harold> Harold: Let's not change the tools while we are running :-)
16:35:40 <ChrisW> action: cwelty to review FLD 
16:35:40 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-411 - Review FLD  [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-02-12].
16:35:58 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:35:58 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ChrisW
16:36:02 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:36:02 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Harold
16:36:06 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:36:06 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sandro
16:36:09 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:36:09 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose csma
16:36:12 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:36:12 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose josb (muted)
16:36:17 <AxelPolleres> by f2f only, I am afraid.
16:36:19 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:36:19 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose csma
16:36:23 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:36:23 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose josb.aa
16:36:24 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:36:24 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Harold
16:36:27 <ChrisW> zakim, pick a victim
16:36:27 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Harold
16:36:38 <csma> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:36:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb (muted), Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer, josb.aa, Gary_Hallmark
16:36:39 <ChrisW> zakim, you're not helping
16:36:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you're not helping', ChrisW
16:36:52 <IgorMozetic> ack me
16:37:07 <Harold> Jos: Will review BLD by the F2F but not before the next telecon.
16:37:57 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/BLD
16:38:04 <Harold> Igor: Cannot promise reviewing new BLD by Tuesday, but try it by next week (Wed).
16:39:10 <Harold> Christian: wiki-tr did not work for new BLD, so disconnected it.
16:39:26 <Harold> Sandro: Format is wrong.
16:39:41 <Harold> Christian: Because of HTML?
16:40:40 <Harold> Sandro: Formatting issues could be debugged in a few minutes.
16:41:04 <ChrisW> action: igor to review bld by F2F
16:41:04 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-412 - Review bld by F2F [on Igor Mozetic - due 2008-02-12].
16:41:52 <Harold> Christian: Frozen versions by Fri, Feb 15.
16:42:07 <IgorMozetic> zakim, mute me
16:42:07 <Zakim> IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:42:08 <Harold> TOPIC: Lists
16:42:41 <Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/List_Constructor
16:44:20 <Harold> Harold: Removed Pair from syntax -- it's only a semantic means now.
16:44:25 <IgorMozetic> ack me
16:44:46 <Harold> Jos: No chance to read in detail, but looks fine.
16:45:11 <Hassan> q+
16:45:11 <Harold> Igor: Had little chance to read in detail, but looks fine.
16:45:30 <csma> q?
16:47:21 <csma> ack hassan
16:47:30 <Hassan> I cannot be heard!
16:47:36 <Hassan> Who am I?
16:47:45 <sandro> zakm, unmute hassan
16:47:55 <Harold> Harold: One issue is that Seq is polyadic (can be called with 0, 1, 2, or more arguments). For that we can instantiate FLD to BLD in a way that allows on polyadic function, namele Seq.
16:48:14 <sandro> zakim, josb is RealHassan
16:48:14 <Zakim> +RealHassan; got it
16:48:20 <sandro> zakim, unmute RealHassan
16:48:20 <Zakim> RealHassan should no longer be muted
16:48:27 <Harold> s/allows on polyadic function, namele Seq./allows polyadic functions, namely Seq./
16:48:47 <ChrisW> zakim, RealHassan is Hassan
16:48:47 <Zakim> +Hassan; got it
16:48:49 <Harold> Hassan: Dont understand Ex. 3.
16:51:18 <josb> q+
16:51:47 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:51:47 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:51:51 <Harold> ... Syntactic unific. seems to need pairs.
16:52:03 <Harold> Harold: They are in the interpretation.
16:52:08 <csma> ack josb
16:52:30 <Harold> Jos: Propose to clarify by removing mentioning of unification.
16:52:42 <Harold> Hassan: Agree.
16:53:58 <Harold> Lists can be decomposed, e.g. in conditions using explicit syntactic equality (unification) as shown in Example 3.
16:54:02 <Harold> -->
16:54:04 <Hassan> I will read the result
16:54:09 <Harold> Lists can be decomposed, e.g. in conditions using explicit equality as shown in Example 3.
16:54:38 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:54:38 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:54:44 <Harold> Sandro: wiki-tr now works properly on the new BLD.
16:54:52 <Harold> Christian: Wonderful.
16:55:12 <csma> http://burns.w3.org/cgi-bin/wiki_tr?source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2005%2Frules%2Fwg%2Fwiki%2FBLD&Go=Go
16:55:15 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:55:15 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:55:22 <csma> q?
16:55:32 <Harold> Michael/Sandro: some garbage left, but will go away.
16:56:02 <Harold> TOPIC: Metadata
16:56:14 <IgorMozetic> zakim, mute me
16:56:14 <Zakim> IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:56:24 <josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Annotations
16:56:30 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Annotations
16:57:03 <Harold> Jos: Also want to tackle Directives.
16:57:42 <Harold> ... So call the superclass 'Annotations'
16:58:04 <Harold> ... Metadata like Author, Date, ... can be ignored.
16:59:12 <Harold> ... Directives like DaveR's import ... cannot be ignored.
17:00:31 <Harold> ... For email exchange with DaveR: Probably want structure for Metadata.
17:00:44 <Harold> ... Inspired by Turtle syntax of RDF.
17:02:18 <Harold> ... Mapping from XML to RDF.
17:02:32 <Harold> ... Shows how RDF processors could use it.
17:02:48 <Harold> Christian: In the RDF Compatibility doc.
17:02:49 <csma> q?
17:02:52 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
17:02:52 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
17:02:59 <Harold> Jos: Yes, later.
17:03:21 <Harold> Michael: What is Metadata Statement? No example of this.
17:03:41 <josb> MetadataStatement ( a dc:title "bla" ) 
17:04:07 <Harold> Jos: Would be Statement about arbitrary IRIs.
17:04:22 <Harold> ... A possible extension.
17:05:29 <Harold> Christian: Also a bit skeptical about arbitrary IRIs.
17:05:35 <sandro> q?
17:05:43 <Harold> Michael: Who must understand what Import means.
17:05:52 <Harold> Chris: The dialect.
17:05:53 <sandro> q+ to ask why directives are grouped with metadata
17:07:02 <Harold> Christian: Difference between Metadata and Directives.
17:07:05 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
17:07:05 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
17:07:13 <csma> q?
17:07:13 <sandro> ack sandro 
17:07:14 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask why directives are grouped with metadata
17:07:44 <Harold> Sandro: Dont understand why directives are not fully part of the language?
17:08:23 <ChrisW> q+
17:08:27 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
17:08:27 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
17:08:31 <MichaelKifer> q+
17:08:31 <Harold> Jos: You dont need to change the language when you change the directives.
17:08:57 <Harold> Michael: Like include statement in C (part of preprocessor)
17:09:11 <Harold> Sandro: So we would need two processors.
17:09:11 <MichaelKifer> q-
17:09:20 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
17:09:20 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
17:09:48 <Harold> ... all directives are processed before the rules are processed.
17:10:01 <Harold> Chris: Only by analogy.
17:10:54 <Harold> Sandro: The model-theoretic semantics is not the differentiating criterion: Also part of PRD is not specified model-theoretically.
17:11:37 <Harold> ... Gray line between the language itself and its directives.
17:12:04 <Harold> ... Illegal directives should be caught by schema checker.
17:12:34 <Harold> Christian: Could be included as a piece of syntax rather than as a directive.
17:13:16 <Harold> Christian: We could say we have no directives, so things get easier.
17:13:17 <sandro> Sandro: I am comfortable with the idea that directives are style-decision -- you never need to use them, but maybe they will be the better style for some kinds of things.
17:13:38 <Harold> Jos: Then it would be harder to make extensions.
17:14:02 <sandro> Sandro: I don't think extending the syntax is hard.
17:14:54 <Harold> Chris/Christian: Agree with Sandro.
17:15:09 <Harold> Christian: Why changed presentation syntax?
17:15:27 <Harold> Jos: If we want to specify anything, it must go there.
17:16:21 <Harold> Christian: Maybe not call it 'Annotation' to avoid confusion with XML Schema Annotations.
17:16:39 <Harold> Jos: More worried with OWL Annotations.
17:17:00 <Harold> Sandro: In XML Schema all  Annotations are optional.
17:17:15 <Harold> ... so confusion possible here.
17:17:40 <Harold> Jos: OK when better name can be found, but first decide about 'Directives'
17:18:00 <Harold> Christian: Strawpoll.
17:18:09 <ChrisW> Favor Two kinds?
17:18:15 <ChrisW> +1
17:18:21 <Hassan> 0
17:18:21 <AxelPolleres> 0
17:18:22 <josb> +1
17:18:22 <IgorMozetic> +1 metadata+directives
17:18:22 <Harold> +1
17:18:25 <MichaelKifer> +0
17:18:26 <sandro> -0.5
17:18:26 <GaryHallmark> why not just define the specific directives you want.  the only examples I've heard are import/include
17:19:10 <Harold> Christian: Yes, Gary, it may be in the syntax of the language itself.
17:19:27 <ChrisW> Favor one kind of metadata
17:19:32 <GaryHallmark> +1
17:19:34 <sandro> +1
17:19:35 <AxelPolleres> 0
17:19:36 <Hassan> 0
17:19:36 <IgorMozetic> -0
17:19:37 <josb> 0
17:19:39 <Harold> 0
17:19:42 <ChrisW> 0
17:19:42 <MichaelKifer> -0
17:20:12 <Hassan> I need to be convinced of the need
17:20:20 <Harold> Sandro: Want to do it on a case by case basis.
17:20:38 <Harold> ... Import should be part of the language.
17:20:57 <Harold> Chris: What diff does it make?
17:21:06 <Harold> Sandro: Avoid unnecessary complication.
17:21:16 <Harold> ... Schema validation can help.
17:21:50 <GaryHallmark> are there any directives other than import?
17:21:54 <Harold> Harold: Schematron can always be used for finer-grained validation.
17:22:17 <josb> Suggested directives for BLD: rif:imports, rif:requiresDataSet, rif:dataModel
17:22:23 <sandro> Sandro: I'm not opposed to directives in principle, it just seems unnecessary for the examples I'm seeing here.
17:22:43 <GaryHallmark> jos, what do the last 2 do?
17:22:44 <Harold> Christian: Next step would be to list all RIF directives of interest.
17:23:11 <Harold> Sandro: Having directives does change model theory.
17:23:22 <Hassan> why not? imports are theories...
17:23:39 <Harold> Harold: Model theory kicks in only after import.
17:23:55 <josb> ref to dataset and data model is data model of the rules
17:24:05 <josb> see http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Arch/Data_Sets
17:24:36 <Harold> Christian/Jos: If we had modules, things would be different.
17:25:19 <Harold> Jos: Then would not use directives to refer to modules, but use syntax in the language.
17:25:25 <Harold> Chris: and semantics.
17:25:48 <Harold> Christian: Was referring to datasets, not modules.
17:26:52 <Harold> Chris: Wrt model theory, you treat them (datasets?) as if they were part of the symbol space.
17:27:34 <Harold> Christian: If you want to cross-ref between datasets, how do you do that?
17:28:10 <Harold> ... If this dosent change the model theory, you cannot see it as preprocessing.
17:28:26 <Harold> Chris: Lost me here.
17:28:37 <Harold> Christian: Will make up an example.
17:28:58 <ChrisW> +1
17:29:01 <IgorMozetic> +1
17:29:06 <csma> +1
17:29:07 <josb> +1
17:29:10 <sandro> -1 don't know enough yet
17:29:13 <Hassan> 0
17:29:14 <Harold> 0
17:29:20 <AxelPolleres> +1
17:30:02 <ChrisW> previous poll about prefering Jos' metadata proposal
17:30:07 <GaryHallmark> -0.5
17:30:27 <Hassan> +1 on adjourning
17:30:34 <GaryHallmark> for interop, it would be better to import a rif document containing ground facts than to use rif:requiresDataSet 
17:30:37 <IgorMozetic> +1, bye
17:30:40 <Zakim> -IgorMozetic
17:30:46 <Zakim> -Hassan
17:30:52 <ChrisW> action: Christian to write up an example of what he means regarding the metadata proposal
17:30:52 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-413 - Write up an example of what he means regarding the metadata proposal [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2008-02-12].
17:30:56 <AxelPolleres> actions to igor and myself to check back f2f10 options...
17:31:00 <Zakim> -MichaelKifer
17:31:04 <Zakim> -josb.aa
17:31:08 <Zakim> -StellaMitchell
17:31:10 <AxelPolleres> bye
17:31:14 <ChrisW> zakim, list attendees
17:31:14 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been csma, Sandro, ChrisW, hassan, Harold, AxelPolleres, StellaMitchell, IgorMozetic, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Gary_Hallmark
17:31:20 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
17:31:20 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:31:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/05-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:31:29 <Zakim> -Gary_Hallmark
17:31:46 <Zakim> -Harold
17:32:34 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:32:35 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:32:36 <Zakim> -csma
17:32:37 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:32:38 <Zakim> Attendees were csma, Sandro, ChrisW, hassan, Harold, AxelPolleres, StellaMitchell, IgorMozetic, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Gary_Hallmark
19:00:58 <csma> csma has left #rif
19:57:40 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rif