IRC log of ua on 2008-01-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:34:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:34:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-ua-irc
17:35:14 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
17:35:30 [AllanJ]
zakim, this will be wai_
17:35:30 [Zakim]
ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
17:46:46 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
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Meeting: WAI UA
17:54:57 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0024.html
17:55:07 [Jan]
Scribe: Jan
17:55:15 [Jan]
Chair: Jim Allan
17:55:24 [Jan]
Regrets: Gregory R.
17:59:00 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:59:07 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:59:19 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
17:59:19 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
17:59:27 [Zakim]
+Allanj
17:59:50 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
18:00:10 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really KFord
18:00:10 [Zakim]
+KFord; got it
18:00:31 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
18:00:40 [KFord]
KFord has joined #ua
18:00:51 [Jan]
zakim, [IBM] is really pparente
18:00:51 [Zakim]
+pparente; got it
18:01:34 [parente]
parente has joined #ua
18:02:11 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
18:02:20 [Jan]
zakim, [cklaws] is really pparente
18:02:20 [Zakim]
sorry, Jan, I do not recognize a party named '[cklaws]'
18:02:31 [Jan]
zakim, [IBM] is really cklaws\
18:02:31 [Zakim]
+cklaws\; got it
18:02:35 [cklaws]
cklaws has joined #ua
18:02:42 [Jan]
zakim, cklaws\ is really cklaws
18:02:44 [Zakim]
sorry, Jan, I do not recognize a party named 'cklaws\'
18:03:19 [Jan]
Topic: WCAG comments due Feb 1.
18:03:43 [Jan]
JR: Didn't see any UAAG showstoppers in WCAG
18:04:06 [Jan]
CL: No IBM comments so far
18:04:54 [Jan]
CL: Already use WCAG 2.0 draft version from awhile back as IBM guidance
18:05:11 [Jan]
JA: I had a UAAG chat with Judy yesterday...
18:05:34 [Jan]
JA: She wonders about going out quickly...
18:05:44 [Jan]
JA: WAI 3.0 would combine things together
18:06:14 [Jan]
KF: So then why a UAAG2...why not wait?
18:06:22 [Jan]
JA: Might be a while.
18:06:44 [Jan]
KF: Maybe we shoot towards that rather than to version2
18:06:57 [Jan]
JA: JR and I talking about making v2 a quick edit
18:07:20 [Jan]
CL: Just get all input into Editor's draft
18:07:44 [Jan]
JA: IF JR and I get together...we can conference everyone in
18:08:02 [Jan]
Topic: CSUN presentation
18:08:13 [Jan]
JA: Our presentation was not approved
18:08:26 [Jan]
JA: But will get 10mins in Judy's WAI overview time
18:09:06 [Jan]
CL: Other chairs coming?
18:09:10 [Jan]
JA: No just me
18:09:29 [Jan]
JA: So what should I focus on in 10 mins?
18:09:52 [Jan]
KF: In Dec looking at publishing to TR
18:11:29 [Jan]
JR: Tentatively scheduled to go to TR in early March
18:12:02 [Jan]
JA: So maybe we should meet in Feb...will see
18:12:20 [Jan]
JA: Way cool to get draft out...so what should I talk about?
18:13:37 [Jan]
JA: 1 participation, 2 uaag new structure, 3 how future accessible browsers might implement Web2, 4 what new browsers controls are needed, 5 separation of core browser requirements from ATs, 6...
18:13:44 [AllanJ]
4.How the use of engineered platform accessibility APIs vs. DOM (application-specific APIs) vs. off-screen models (OSMs) and heuristics effect the user’s access to information delivered by the browser.
18:14:35 [Jan]
JA: So what to focus on?
18:15:15 [Jan]
JR: Particpation YES, new structure NO
18:16:11 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007OctDec/0010.html
18:16:24 [Jan]
(CSUN proposal email)
18:16:46 [Jan]
CL: Lot in PF docs about how new browsers will implement ARIA
18:17:26 [Jan]
JA: I have real concerns about accessibility falling apart again with Web2.0
18:17:41 [Jan]
CL: Not really UAAG this time...
18:18:01 [Jan]
CL:UAAG1 tried to drive accessibility to UA's and AT's now it's PF
18:18:33 [Jan]
CL: Aaron L implmenting in Firefox...
18:18:41 [Jan]
CL: Not sure about IE and Safari
18:19:04 [Jan]
CL: So not sure how to address this from UAAG perspective
18:19:47 [Jan]
KF: Microsoft participating but not public on what doing yet
18:20:00 [Jan]
KF: Very aware of what's going on
18:20:38 [Jan]
JA: Maybe we say we feel there are concerns about speed of tech changing and how are we going to maintain accessibility to this stuff
18:21:19 [Jan]
CL: From WAI perspective this stuff still being looked at...so interesting if merged.
18:21:45 [Jan]
JA: So general application interface side...but then inside form is a form is a form....
18:22:36 [Jan]
CL: Concepts the same even if techs aredifferent
18:22:59 [Jan]
JA: We should also talk a bit about compliance split
18:23:12 [Jan]
JA: Between browser and ATs
18:24:07 [Jan]
CL: We could use some exa,ples from issues list to illustrate what we are wrestling with
18:24:15 [Jan]
CL: Slides?
18:24:18 [Jan]
JA: Not sure
18:25:04 [Jan]
JA: Will put together outline by next week
18:26:34 [Jan]
Topic: Charter?
18:26:46 [Jan]
JA: We are extended for a bit
18:26:53 [Jan]
JR: Yes - don't remembe how long
18:27:12 [Jan]
Topic: JR's proposal on 10.1
18:27:23 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0026.html
18:28:53 [AllanJ]
10.1 seemed a specific instance of providing associated orientation information
18:30:06 [AllanJ]
CL: other examples, nested frame and trees are different things.
18:30:09 [Jan]
CL: Lot of other examples you mentioneed I wouldn't have thought of...
18:30:15 [Jan]
CL Like sections of a doc
18:30:22 [Jan]
CL: Like landmark role in document
18:31:00 [AllanJ]
JR: hierarchical structure in HTML are not containers.
18:31:34 [AllanJ]
JR: would be good to add containers.
18:31:53 [Jan]
CL: Should also call out trees
18:33:06 [AllanJ]
CL: also colapseable/expandable content (twisties)
18:34:31 [AllanJ]
JR: Should this be paired with 2.3 conditional content
18:36:08 [Jan]
CL: Add "trees" as example, add "landmark" - related to use of headings/sections
18:37:43 [AllanJ]
All: discussion of hierarchy of HTML 4 headings
18:39:21 [AllanJ]
KF: AT makes implicit associations between Hx and text following it
18:41:38 [Jan]
Action JR: Rewrite 10.1 with issues brought up in call
18:41:43 [AllanJ]
CL: in tables also talking about row and col number
18:42:49 [AllanJ]
JR: general case: numbering pieces of content when in a heirarchy (row, column, or section 1, etc)
18:44:03 [Jan]
CL: If broadened out...what about label for a control
18:45:25 [Jan]
CL: THe word in Accessibility API's is "Relations" between objects...
18:45:39 [Jan]
CL: ControllerFro, Controlledby, LabelFor, etc.
18:46:30 [Jan]
CL: May pull in other checkpoints
18:47:19 [Jan]
JR: Doesn't seem to be called out anywhere else - there is one for making infoset available, and implement access features
18:47:32 [Jan]
JA: Seems to be stumbling on a big cross cutting requirement
18:47:56 [Jan]
Topic: JR's proposal for 10.2
18:47:58 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0025.html
18:50:01 [AllanJ]
JR: reviews discussion from last week
18:51:29 [AllanJ]
JR: "recognized" as "content controlled" - a web 2.0 control might say I will provide my own highlight and the browser gives it control
18:52:28 [Jan]
JA: Think it's a lot cleaner
18:52:46 [Jan]
CL: Is checkpoint looking like you must use them
18:54:53 [Jan]
CL: Language seems stronger
18:55:12 [Jan]
JR: It is...before it had requirments for things not required
18:56:50 [Jan]
JA: Brings up "except when "recognized" as "content-controlled")"
18:57:00 [Jan]
PP: How does User Agent know?
18:57:11 [Jan]
KF: We had similar concept in other places...
18:57:48 [AllanJ]
JR: does dojo handles its own highliting
18:58:06 [AllanJ]
PP: are we talking about focus, text, element in a list
18:58:11 [Jan]
PP: Focus - this element is part of the Tab order....
18:58:16 [Jan]
PP: or not
18:58:32 [Jan]
PP: Still up to user agent to allow focus to go there
18:59:04 [Jan]
PP: Firefox just renders regular border
18:59:08 [AllanJ]
browser does not know if dojo will provide focus border or other style.
18:59:31 [Jan]
PP: In ARIA could say something is "active descendant"....
19:00:13 [Jan]
PP: UA doesn't move focus but content could do the highlighting
19:00:51 [Jan]
JR: That's what I meant
19:01:26 [Jan]
JR: OK I will try to clean up the language to be more specific
19:01:56 [cklaws]
I need to leave
19:03:11 [Zakim]
-cklaws
19:03:19 [Zakim]
-pparente
19:03:20 [Zakim]
-KFord
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-Allanj
19:03:28 [Jan]
JA: Will be tackling untouched guidelines...
19:03:31 [parente]
parente has left #ua
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-Jan
19:03:38 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
19:03:39 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jan, Allanj, KFord, pparente, cklaws\
19:03:49 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:03:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-ua-minutes.html Jan
19:03:56 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
19:04:02 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
19:04:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:04:07 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
19:04:07 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-ua-actions.rdf :
19:04:07 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Rewrite 10.1 with issues brought up in call [1]
19:04:07 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-ua-irc#T18-41-38