06:54:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #emotion
06:54:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc
06:54:35 <bjoern> bjoern has joined #emotion
06:54:59 <marc> zakim, this is INC_EMOXG
06:54:59 <Zakim> marc, I see INC_EMOXG()2:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be INC_EMOXG".
06:55:11 <marc> zakim, this will be INC_EMOXG
06:55:11 <Zakim> ok, marc; I see INC_EMOXG()2:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
06:55:49 <marc> agenda+ Review of results from Questionnaire 
06:55:52 <ian> yes
06:56:01 <marc> agenda+ First discussion of alternatives sent in various formats 
06:56:12 <ian> do you have the url of the agenda?
06:56:13 <marc> agenda+ Date of next meeting 
06:56:30 <marc> Ah, thanks, that's very kind of you Ian!
06:56:55 <marc> The Agenda URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jan/0013.html
06:57:12 <Zakim> INC_EMOXG()2:00AM has now started
06:57:16 <marc> The "Cheat Sheet" for scribes: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/emotion/group/IRC-Cheat-Sheet.html
06:57:19 <Zakim> +Ian_Wilson
06:57:36 <Zakim> +??P1
06:58:12 <ian> Meeting: EMOXG working group
06:58:51 <bjoern> Zakim, I am +498928928548
06:58:51 <Zakim> sorry, bjoern, I do not see a party named '+498928928548'
06:59:30 <Zakim> + +7.233.aaaa
07:00:20 <marc> zakim, who is here?
07:00:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ian_Wilson, ??P1, +7.233.aaaa
07:00:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see bjoern, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, ian, trackbot-ng
07:00:23 <Zakim> + +1.512.567.aabb
07:00:34 <felix> felix has joined #emotion
07:00:44 <ian> Chair: Marc Schroeder
07:00:47 <marc> zakim, I am aaaa
07:00:47 <Zakim> +marc; got it
07:00:50 <felix> good moring
07:01:14 <marc> zakim, ??P1 is bjoern
07:01:14 <Zakim> +bjoern; got it
07:01:15 <bjoern> Zakim, I am +??P1
07:01:16 <Zakim> sorry, bjoern, I do not see a party named '+??P1'
07:01:18 <felix> moring /morning
07:01:45 <Jianhua> Jianhua has joined #emotion
07:01:49 <marc> Scribe: Ian_Wilson
07:02:00 <marc> ScribeNick: ian
07:02:49 <Zakim> + +49.303.4.aacc
07:02:50 <ian> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jan/0013.html
07:03:13 <marc> zakim, aacc is felix
07:03:13 <Zakim> +felix; got it
07:03:36 <Zakim> + +49.381.4.aadd
07:04:02 <marc> zakim, aadd is christian
07:04:02 <Zakim> +christian; got it
07:04:20 <marc> agenda?
07:04:45 <Jianhua> Hi all, the skype seems not working at the moment, I cannot make the calling, I will keep trying
07:05:04 <marc> ok Jianhua, we'll try to type more then!"
07:05:58 <Christian> Christian has joined #emotion
07:06:58 <marc> next item
07:07:31 <marc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jan/0015.html
07:07:35 <Bill> Bill has joined #emotion
07:07:42 <marc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jan/0016.html
07:07:46 <Zakim> + +35321aaee
07:08:24 <cpeter> cpeter has joined #emotion
07:08:43 <marc> zakim, aaee is Dylan
07:08:43 <Zakim> +Dylan; got it
07:09:45 <ian> marc: says feedback for questionairre was good
07:10:29 <ian> marc: notes people from outside the group gave valuable feedback
07:10:41 <Kostas> Kostas has joined #emotion
07:10:48 <Zakim> +??P7
07:11:00 <ian> marc: notes that results of questionairre are in general agreement
07:11:21 <marc> zakim, ??P7 is Kostas
07:11:21 <Zakim> +Kostas; got it
07:11:28 <Dylan> Dylan has joined #emotion
07:12:17 <ian> marc: notes that emotion categories and dimensions are agreed must haves
07:13:05 <ian> perhaps we say over 75% are definately in?
07:14:31 <bjoern> or over 70% (3 important ones @ 71%...)
07:21:14 <ian> ian: mentions that some items may be easy to impliment through the structure of XML
07:21:47 <ian> marc: these may require a detailed discussion that may be too in depth for now
07:22:17 <marc> a suggestion: we could draw a line at, e.g., 70%,
07:22:32 <marc> and suggest that those above 70% are "definitely in".
07:22:43 <dyl_an> dyl_an has joined #emotion
07:22:43 <marc> That gives us a list of 11 requirements,
07:22:55 <marc> and then people can discuss why the list should be changed.
07:23:03 <dyl_an> tt
07:23:22 <bjoern> agrees.
07:24:43 <dyl_an> tt
07:25:11 <ian> as an aside i will split the list into "meta data", "body data" and "link data"
07:27:18 <ian> ACTION: ian to create list of "first cut" items to discuss and circulate due by tomorrow
07:27:18 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-9 - Create list of \"first cut\" items to discuss and circulate due by tomorrow [on Ian Wilson - due 2008-02-07].
07:27:49 <Dylan> Dylan has joined #emotion
07:28:19 <Zakim> +Myriam_Lamolle
07:28:52 <ian> dylan: asks about confidence ratings, is there one meta or confidence ratings for each item
07:29:38 <Myriam> Myriam has joined #emotion
07:30:08 <ian> marc: we will discuss that later when we address each item
07:30:21 <marc> next item
07:30:52 <marc> owl example from bill
07:30:56 <marc> rdf example from ian
07:31:01 <marc> deep xml example from myriam
07:31:07 <marc> shallow xml example from bjoern
07:32:03 <marc> one key choice: how explicit?
07:34:12 <marc> beiing explicit would mean giving up on "simple cases should look simple"
07:34:57 <ian> ian: annotations and models have somewhat differing requirements
07:35:05 <Myriam> I  thing it's better to use
07:35:17 <Myriam> simple cases in the fisrt step
07:35:27 <ian> marc: we want to stay with 1 format however
07:35:52 <Myriam> Deep structure is more flexible
07:36:21 <ian> marc: do we want to trade simplicity for explicitness?
07:37:18 <Myriam> but  it's very difficult to constraint data type
07:37:38 <Myriam> it's eaisier with attribute 
07:39:11 <Myriam> if you want use a range like [0, 1] it's better to use a flat structure
07:39:24 <ian> ian: how important is it that we can interoperate with other formats and other groups?
07:39:34 <Myriam> yes
07:39:56 <ian> dylan: agrees, that interoperation is crucial
07:40:16 <Myriam> the mapping will be more or less complex
07:42:27 <ian> dylan: thinks going to an ontology is a step too far and making a comitment to an ontology is too much
07:43:01 <ian> ian: agrees, thinks an ontology would be too concrete wheras xml is more abstract
07:44:16 <Myriam> perhaps, RDF is an intermediate between XML and OWL
07:46:43 <Myriam> it's possible to use like XML
07:46:54 <Myriam> but also to create an ontology
07:49:54 <Myriam> XML or RDF namespace are the same goal
07:50:05 <Myriam> the disambiguous of type
07:50:27 <Myriam> but some RDF namespaces are a norm
07:50:30 <Myriam> like DC
07:51:08 <ian> ian: rdf requires unambiguous namespaces and terms
07:51:16 <Myriam> yes
07:51:41 <Myriam> and XML accept qualified or unqualified terms
07:52:27 <Myriam> but we can f
07:52:40 <Myriam> force the utilisation of namespace
07:54:24 <ian> marc: wants to know if xml, rdf and owl can be sub classed?
07:54:41 <Myriam> yes for XML 
07:55:19 <ian> ACTION: ian to investigate sub classing in RDF due next friday
07:55:19 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-10 - Investigate sub classing in RDF due next friday [on Ian Wilson - due 2008-02-07].
07:55:59 <Myriam> I think also for OWL because it's based on object programming
07:57:09 <ian> do we have a link for sub classing XML?
07:57:49 <Myriam> If you write a simpleType to restrict xsd:integer
07:57:58 <Myriam> to range [0,1]
07:58:44 <Myriam> we can also use xsd:restruction from a complexType
07:59:47 <Myriam> in XSD
08:00:25 <ian> cane you find an example?
08:00:30 <ian> can
08:00:33 <Myriam> yes
08:00:41 <bjoern> yes
08:00:54 <marc> is there an agreement that we want to be explicit?
08:00:58 <ian> yes
08:01:01 <bjoern> yes
08:01:45 <Myriam> in http://www.iut.univ-paris8.fr/~lamolle/EMOXG/emoxg-basetype.xsd
08:01:57 <Myriam> we can see basic type for EMOXG
08:02:25 <ian> Christian: says we dont want to be too explicit, only with core attributes
08:02:42 <Myriam> and in http://www.iut.univ-paris8.fr/~lamolle/EMOXG/emoXG0.1.xsd
08:02:57 <Myriam> we can see I extend or restrict basic type
08:03:08 <marc> Let's investigate how the various formalisms can deal with the "plug in" challenge
08:04:09 <Myriam> I think it exist 3 formalisms to "plug in"...
08:04:11 <Myriam> in XSD
08:06:13 <Myriam> can we use the same examples to compare the "plug-in"?
08:07:04 <Myriam> or the sub-classsing?
08:07:12 <ian> ACTION: Myriam to investigate subclassing in XML due 2008-02-21
08:07:12 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - Myriam
08:07:49 <ian> ACTION: Bill to investigate subclassing in OWL due 2008-02-21
08:07:49 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-11 - Investigate subclassing in OWL due 2008-02-21 [on Bill Jarrold - due 2008-02-07].
08:09:01 <marc> Let's note for the future: another question we will have to look at is how the language can be "plugged into" another language such as EARL or SMIL etc.
08:10:30 <marc> ACTION: Marc to describe the challenge of plugging in different categories etc. within the language - due 15 Feb
08:10:30 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-12 - describe the challenge of plugging in different categories etc. within the language [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-02-15].
08:12:21 <marc> next item
08:13:03 <marc> Next meeting should be the "late slot" (15:00 UTC); I suggest the week 
08:13:03 <marc> of 25 February, day to be determined with Doodle.
08:13:15 <ian> all: agreed
08:13:27 <bjoern> all:agreed,2
08:13:40 <Dylan> Thanks everyone.  Bye!
08:13:44 <Zakim> - +1.512.567.aabb
08:13:45 <Zakim> -Kostas
08:13:45 <bjoern> bye
08:13:47 <Zakim> -christian
08:13:49 <Zakim> -bjoern
08:13:50 <Myriam> bye
08:13:50 <Zakim> -felix
08:13:55 <Zakim> -Myriam_Lamolle
08:13:59 <Zakim> -Dylan
08:15:22 <marc> Regrets: Jean-Claude_Martin, Enrico_Zovato, Paolo_Baggia, Eva_oliveira, Catherine_Pelachaud
08:18:07 <ian> Present: Bill Jarold, Ian Wilson, Marc Schroeder, Christian Peter,  Dylan Evans, Jianhua Tao, Kostas Karpousis, Myriam Lamolle, Bjoern Schuller, Felix Burkhardt
08:18:26 <ian> rrsagent, make logs public
08:18:42 <ian> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:18:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-minutes.html ian
08:19:21 <ian> bye
08:19:32 <Zakim> -Ian_Wilson
08:19:34 <Zakim> -marc
08:19:35 <Zakim> INC_EMOXG()2:00AM has ended
08:19:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Ian_Wilson, +7.233.aaaa, +1.512.567.aabb, marc, bjoern, +49.303.4.aacc, felix, +49.381.4.aadd, christian, +35321aaee, Dylan, Kostas, Myriam_Lamolle
08:19:54 <marc> zakim, bye
08:19:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #emotion
08:19:59 <marc> rrsagent, bye
08:19:59 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-actions.rdf :
08:19:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ian to create list of "first cut" items to discuss and circulate due by tomorrow [1]
08:19:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T07-27-18
08:19:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ian to investigate sub classing in RDF due next friday [2]
08:19:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T07-55-19
08:19:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Myriam to investigate subclassing in XML due 2008-02-21 [3]
08:19:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T08-07-12
08:19:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Bill to investigate subclassing in OWL due 2008-02-21 [4]
08:19:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T08-07-49
08:19:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Marc to describe the challenge of plugging in different categories etc. within the language - due 15 Feb [5]
08:19:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T08-10-30