17:47:54 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:47:54 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc 17:48:04 Zakim, this will be UAWG 17:48:05 ok, Jan; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes 17:48:18 Meeting: WAI UA 17:48:40 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0017.html 17:48:48 Scribe: Jan 17:48:57 Regrets: Kelly Ford 17:51:46 regrets: Kathy Laws 17:53:19 Chair: Jim Allan 17:53:43 Regrets: Peter Parente 17:59:31 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:59:38 + +1.512.206.aaaa 18:00:01 oedipus has joined #ua 18:00:38 zakim, +1.512.206.aaaa is Jim Allan 18:00:38 I don't understand '+1.512.206.aaaa is Jim Allan', AllanJ 18:01:26 zakim, ++1.512.206.aaaa is really Allanj 18:01:26 sorry, AllanJ, I do not recognize a party named '++1.512.206.aaaa' 18:02:07 +??P1 18:02:08 calling in a minute -- html call went a tad long 18:02:30 zakim, ??P1 is really Jan 18:02:30 +Jan; got it 18:03:08 zakim, +1.512.206.aaaa is really Allanj 18:03:08 +Allanj; got it 18:03:19 i'll still call in 18:03:55 +Gregory_Rosmaita 18:05:53 GJR's ARIA status report: 18:05:53 ARIA Suite will now contain: 1) ARIA Roadmap; 2) Roles, States, and Properties for Accessible Rich Internet Applications (combination of 2 previously seperate documents); 3) ARIA Best Practices; and 4) ARIA Primer (new) 18:05:53 two approaches to embedding ARIA: 18:05:53 1) no namespaces, no prefixes -- host languages reserve all attribute names matching the pattern aria-*. This allows the ARIA states and properties to be controlled by the PFWG specification, including future maintenance. 18:05:54 2) by Namespaces in XML -- Role Attribute Module () will give @role a 'home' namespace from which it can be cited using the Namespaces in XML Recommendation technique, so that ARIA can be used in DIAL and other dialects of XHTML, which are likely to be used primarily to feed middleware, as there is no immediate prospect of this technology being picked up widely by browsers any time soon 18:06:32 GJR: ARIA work listed as 1 of 4 deliverables -- matt may of adobe in PF, but lurking more than participating 18:12:50 Topic: Work on GL 10 18:13:01 JA: CSUN coming up in 6 weeks 18:13:35 Action JR: Look into a TR draft of UAAG 2.0 by CSUN 18:14:28 Jan review GL 10 18:14:44 10.1 Associate table cells and headers 18:14:52 UIA discussion in open a11y: http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Accessiblity/Minutes/Minutes20080123 18:15:17 this is just a special case of associating labels with the thing they label 18:15:50 GR: ARIA may mitigate- collisions of bindings 18:16:11 with screen readers you must be in table reading mode, and loose other information 18:16:45 problems with screen reader non-stateless browsing 18:17:10 ...forms mode, table mode, links, acronyms, etc. 18:17:31 JR: perhaps move to interacting checkpoints 18:17:56 expert handlers CSUN 2008 panel http://accessibility.linux-foundation.org/a11yweb/presentations/csun2008/open_a11y.html 18:18:14 GJR: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ExplicitAssociationPatterns 18:20:30 JA: this is good. associations are fine in isolation, what about combinitorics of associations 18:20:57 GJR: see tabindex on ESW page 18:22:41 second example shows using tabindex to change default tabbing order, and with screen reader you cannot be in table and forms mode at the same time 18:24:12 example shows html 5 coding 18:26:04 JR: if selection on Grooms last name, what is problem? 18:26:23 GJR: depends if scope is supported. 18:27:33 ...even if header/id binding, by navigating into form control, the title trumps all other associations, so user would have to query other information... 18:27:51 leave forms mode, switch to table mode. 18:28:31 JR: layers of label, 18:28:43 JA: like conditional content 18:29:25 JR: but its not. conditional content appears and disappears, this information is always there 18:29:43 ... but user may had difficulty accessing it. 18:31:14 GR: Maybe tie in with ubiquitous web... 18:31:25 GJR: ubiquitious web application. Screen reader users and mobile device user share similar access issues 18:31:55 ... onus on the author. 18:33:29 JA: Can some of cond content stuff handle 10.1? 18:33:35 JA: Or do we need more... 18:33:46 JA: Really think cascade of associations is really important 18:34:56 Action JR: Look through UAAG for things to pull together with 10.1 into a cascades of associations requirment 18:35:27 GR: Maybe talk to Rich S about this 18:35:47 GR: He's bringing these issues to ubiquitous web group 18:40:17 complex table http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/web/508/43.htm 18:40:36 http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/web/508/44.htm 18:44:06 Topic: 10.2 Highlight selection, content focus, enabled elements, visited links 18:46:09 - Highlighting "Enabled elements" may be problematic in an AJAX context 18:47:12 in AJAX the control is out of tab order. with widgets all interwoven elements what gets the highlight 18:47:43 - what if link used as a button? 18:48:08 - "do not rely on rendered text foreground and background colors alone" seems to mean mean "use a border"? 18:48:26 JA: yes, use border 18:50:02 PR is reviewing "selectors api" from WEBapi group 18:50:17 PR=PF 18:50:20 GR: PF is reviewing the "Selector's API" from Web Applications group 18:50:54 JA: Thinks AJAX one is most problematic 18:51:36 Selectors API - http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/ 18:51:36 ABSTRACT: Selectors, which are widely used in CSS, are patterns that match against elements in a tree structure [Selectors] [CSS21]. The Selectors API specification defines methods for retrieving Element nodes from the DOM by matching against a group of selectors. It is often desirable to perform DOM operations on a specific set of elements in a document. These methods simplify the process of aquiring specific elements, especially compared with the more verbose 18:53:59 JR: Saying remove the out in #4 18:56:12 JR: hilight 'recognized' elements, for elements with 'aria' roles state then aria would control highlighting 18:57:51 some users will be only able to interact with the graphic as an object, and will not be able to access content contained in the object because rather than using declaritive markup to distinguish and label the links conatined in the object are scripted links which contain no hyperlink text nor any programmatic binding to a textual equivalent defined for them 18:59:06 Action: JR rewording ideas for 10.1. 18:59:08 Action: JR rewording ideas for 10.2. 19:00:34 -Jan 19:00:35 -Gregory_Rosmaita 19:01:53 -Allanj 19:01:54 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 19:01:56 Attendees were Jan, Allanj, Gregory_Rosmaita 19:04:24 quit 19:04:48 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:04:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-minutes.html Jan 19:04:54 RRSAgent, set logs public 19:05:00 Zakim, bye 19:05:00 Zakim has left #ua 19:05:06 RRSAgent, bye 19:05:06 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-actions.rdf : 19:05:06 ACTION: JR to Look into a TR draft of UAAG 2.0 by CSUN [1] 19:05:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc#T18-13-35 19:05:06 ACTION: JR to Look through UAAG for things to pull together with 10.1 into a cascades of associations requirment [2] 19:05:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc#T18-34-56 19:05:06 ACTION: JR rewording ideas for 10.1. [3] 19:05:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc#T18-59-06 19:05:06 ACTION: JR rewording ideas for 10.2. [4] 19:05:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc#T18-59-08