IRC log of ua on 2008-01-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:47:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:47:54 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc
17:48:04 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be UAWG
17:48:05 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
17:48:18 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI UA
17:48:40 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0017.html
17:48:48 [Jan]
Scribe: Jan
17:48:57 [Jan]
Regrets: Kelly Ford
17:51:46 [AllanJ]
regrets: Kathy Laws
17:53:19 [Jan]
Chair: Jim Allan
17:53:43 [Jan]
Regrets: Peter Parente
17:59:31 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:59:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.206.aaaa
18:00:01 [oedipus]
oedipus has joined #ua
18:00:38 [AllanJ]
zakim, +1.512.206.aaaa is Jim Allan
18:00:38 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+1.512.206.aaaa is Jim Allan', AllanJ
18:01:26 [AllanJ]
zakim, ++1.512.206.aaaa is really Allanj
18:01:26 [Zakim]
sorry, AllanJ, I do not recognize a party named '++1.512.206.aaaa'
18:02:07 [Zakim]
+??P1
18:02:08 [oedipus]
calling in a minute -- html call went a tad long
18:02:30 [Jan]
zakim, ??P1 is really Jan
18:02:30 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
18:03:08 [Jan]
zakim, +1.512.206.aaaa is really Allanj
18:03:08 [Zakim]
+Allanj; got it
18:03:19 [oedipus]
i'll still call in
18:03:55 [Zakim]
+Gregory_Rosmaita
18:05:53 [oedipus]
GJR's ARIA status report:
18:05:53 [oedipus]
ARIA Suite will now contain: 1) ARIA Roadmap; 2) Roles, States, and Properties for Accessible Rich Internet Applications (combination of 2 previously seperate documents); 3) ARIA Best Practices; and 4) ARIA Primer (new)
18:05:53 [oedipus]
two approaches to embedding ARIA:
18:05:53 [oedipus]
1) no namespaces, no prefixes -- host languages reserve all attribute names matching the pattern aria-*. This allows the ARIA states and properties to be controlled by the PFWG specification, including future maintenance.
18:05:54 [oedipus]
2) by Namespaces in XML -- Role Attribute Module () will give @role a 'home' namespace from which it can be cited using the Namespaces in XML Recommendation technique, so that ARIA can be used in DIAL and other dialects of XHTML, which are likely to be used primarily to feed middleware, as there is no immediate prospect of this technology being picked up widely by browsers any time soon
18:06:32 [oedipus]
GJR: ARIA work listed as 1 of 4 deliverables -- matt may of adobe in PF, but lurking more than participating
18:12:50 [Jan]
Topic: Work on GL 10
18:13:01 [Jan]
JA: CSUN coming up in 6 weeks
18:13:35 [Jan]
Action JR: Look into a TR draft of UAAG 2.0 by CSUN
18:14:28 [AllanJ]
Jan review GL 10
18:14:44 [AllanJ]
10.1 Associate table cells and headers
18:14:52 [oedipus]
UIA discussion in open a11y: http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Accessiblity/Minutes/Minutes20080123
18:15:17 [AllanJ]
this is just a special case of associating labels with the thing they label
18:15:50 [AllanJ]
GR: ARIA may mitigate- collisions of bindings
18:16:11 [AllanJ]
with screen readers you must be in table reading mode, and loose other information
18:16:45 [AllanJ]
problems with screen reader non-stateless browsing
18:17:10 [AllanJ]
...forms mode, table mode, links, acronyms, etc.
18:17:31 [AllanJ]
JR: perhaps move to interacting checkpoints
18:17:56 [oedipus]
expert handlers CSUN 2008 panel http://accessibility.linux-foundation.org/a11yweb/presentations/csun2008/open_a11y.html
18:18:14 [oedipus]
GJR: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ExplicitAssociationPatterns
18:20:30 [AllanJ]
JA: this is good. associations are fine in isolation, what about combinitorics of associations
18:20:57 [AllanJ]
GJR: see tabindex on ESW page
18:22:41 [AllanJ]
second example shows using tabindex to change default tabbing order, and with screen reader you cannot be in table and forms mode at the same time
18:24:12 [AllanJ]
example shows html 5 coding
18:26:04 [AllanJ]
JR: if selection on Grooms last name, what is problem?
18:26:23 [AllanJ]
GJR: depends if scope is supported.
18:27:33 [AllanJ]
...even if header/id binding, by navigating into form control, the title trumps all other associations, so user would have to query other information...
18:27:51 [AllanJ]
leave forms mode, switch to table mode.
18:28:31 [AllanJ]
JR: layers of label,
18:28:43 [AllanJ]
JA: like conditional content
18:29:25 [AllanJ]
JR: but its not. conditional content appears and disappears, this information is always there
18:29:43 [AllanJ]
... but user may had difficulty accessing it.
18:31:14 [Jan]
GR: Maybe tie in with ubiquitous web...
18:31:25 [AllanJ]
GJR: ubiquitious web application. Screen reader users and mobile device user share similar access issues
18:31:55 [AllanJ]
... onus on the author.
18:33:29 [Jan]
JA: Can some of cond content stuff handle 10.1?
18:33:35 [Jan]
JA: Or do we need more...
18:33:46 [Jan]
JA: Really think cascade of associations is really important
18:34:56 [Jan]
Action JR: Look through UAAG for things to pull together with 10.1 into a cascades of associations requirment
18:35:27 [Jan]
GR: Maybe talk to Rich S about this
18:35:47 [Jan]
GR: He's bringing these issues to ubiquitous web group
18:40:17 [AllanJ]
complex table http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/web/508/43.htm
18:40:36 [AllanJ]
http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/web/508/44.htm
18:44:06 [Jan]
Topic: 10.2 Highlight selection, content focus, enabled elements, visited links
18:46:09 [AllanJ]
- Highlighting "Enabled elements" may be problematic in an AJAX context
18:47:12 [AllanJ]
in AJAX the control is out of tab order. with widgets all interwoven elements what gets the highlight
18:47:43 [AllanJ]
- what if link used as a button?
18:48:08 [AllanJ]
- "do not rely on rendered text foreground and background colors alone" seems to mean mean "use a border"?
18:48:26 [AllanJ]
JA: yes, use border
18:50:02 [AllanJ]
PR is reviewing "selectors api" from WEBapi group
18:50:17 [AllanJ]
PR=PF
18:50:20 [Jan]
GR: PF is reviewing the "Selector's API" from Web Applications group
18:50:54 [Jan]
JA: Thinks AJAX one is most problematic
18:51:36 [oedipus]
Selectors API - http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/
18:51:36 [oedipus]
ABSTRACT: Selectors, which are widely used in CSS, are patterns that match against elements in a tree structure [Selectors] [CSS21]. The Selectors API specification defines methods for retrieving Element nodes from the DOM by matching against a group of selectors. It is often desirable to perform DOM operations on a specific set of elements in a document. These methods simplify the process of aquiring specific elements, especially compared with the more verbose
18:53:59 [Jan]
JR: Saying remove the out in #4
18:56:12 [AllanJ]
JR: hilight 'recognized' elements, for elements with 'aria' roles state then aria would control highlighting
18:57:51 [oedipus]
some users will be only able to interact with the graphic as an object, and will not be able to access content contained in the object because rather than using declaritive markup to distinguish and label the links conatined in the object are scripted links which contain no hyperlink text nor any programmatic binding to a textual equivalent defined for them
18:59:06 [Jan]
Action: JR rewording ideas for 10.1.
18:59:08 [Jan]
Action: JR rewording ideas for 10.2.
19:00:34 [Zakim]
-Jan
19:00:35 [Zakim]
-Gregory_Rosmaita
19:01:53 [Zakim]
-Allanj
19:01:54 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
19:01:56 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jan, Allanj, Gregory_Rosmaita
19:04:24 [oedipus]
quit
19:04:48 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:04:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-minutes.html Jan
19:04:54 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
19:05:00 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
19:05:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:05:06 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-actions.rdf :
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Look into a TR draft of UAAG 2.0 by CSUN [1]
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc#T18-13-35
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Look through UAAG for things to pull together with 10.1 into a cascades of associations requirment [2]
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc#T18-34-56
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR rewording ideas for 10.1. [3]
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc#T18-59-06
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR rewording ideas for 10.2. [4]
19:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-ua-irc#T18-59-08