IRC log of html-wg on 2008-01-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

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00:52:26 [smedero]
someone here was wanting to comment on Norman Walsh's blog about html5 but couldn't - he just posted an entry saying that he fixed a bug in his software preventing comments.
00:53:12 [Philip]
MikeSmith: You are someone ^
00:53:27 [smedero]
nwalsh on html5 for reference: http://norman.walsh.name/2008/01/22/html5
00:53:33 [smedero]
Ahh, thanks Philip...
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01:13:35 [MikeSmith]
Philip - thanks. will need to head over there and comment (if somebody else hasn't already said what I was going to say)
01:14:08 [MikeSmith]
hmm, I forget now what I was planning to say.. guess I'll have to re-read it
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Hixie: the new Editor's Draft still has the WD header
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oops
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trackbot-ng, list
16:59:10 [MikeSmith]
oops
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17:00:03 [DanC]
RRSAgent, pointer?
17:00:03 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-irc#T17-00-03
17:00:09 [DanC]
Zakim, this will be html
17:00:09 [Zakim]
ok, DanC, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
17:00:31 [DanC]
agenda + Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-01-24T17:00:00Z
17:00:38 [Zakim]
+DanC
17:00:50 [MikeSmith]
trackbot-ng, start meeting
17:00:52 [trackbot-ng]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:00:54 [trackbot-ng]
Zakim, this will be HTML
17:00:54 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot-ng, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
17:00:55 [trackbot-ng]
Meeting: HTML Issue Tracking Teleconference
17:00:55 [trackbot-ng]
Date: 24 January 2008
17:01:01 [DanC]
Meeting: HTML WG Weekly
17:01:07 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:01:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +49.251.2.aaaa, ??P1, DanC
17:01:28 [anne]
Zakim, passcode?
17:01:28 [Zakim]
the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
17:01:42 [Julian]
Zakim, +49.251.2.aaaa is me
17:01:43 [Zakim]
+Julian; got it
17:02:06 [Zakim]
+??P4
17:02:07 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P1 is Sam_Kuper
17:02:07 [Zakim]
+Sam_Kuper; got it
17:02:15 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, code?
17:02:15 [Zakim]
the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MikeSmith
17:02:23 [Zakim]
+??P5
17:02:27 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P4 is anne
17:02:27 [Zakim]
+anne; got it
17:02:30 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
17:02:30 [Zakim]
+MikeSmith; got it
17:02:31 [matt]
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17:03:00 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:03:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Julian, Sam_Kuper, DanC, anne, MikeSmith
17:03:40 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:03:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
17:03:49 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:03:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Julian, Sam_Kuper, DanC, anne, MikeSmith
17:03:56 [oedipus]
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17:04:08 [shepazu]
Zakim, call Doug-work
17:04:08 [Zakim]
ok, shepazu; the call is being made
17:04:10 [Zakim]
+Doug
17:04:16 [MikeSmith]
scribe: MikeSmith
17:04:34 [MikeSmith]
scribenick: MikeSmith
17:05:15 [DanC]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008JanMar/0011.html
17:05:17 [MikeSmith]
present: Julian, Sam_Kuper, DanC, anne, MikeSmith, shepazu
17:05:18 [oedipus]
GJR will call in ASAP -- is having serious computer problems, but still hopes to call in
17:05:32 [MikeSmith]
chair: DanC
17:05:59 [MikeSmith]
DanC : going around the table in Zakim order
17:06:00 [ChrisWilson]
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17:06:09 [DanC]
agenda + scope, requirements, and modularity http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2
17:06:14 [MikeSmith]
Julian : I'm interested in talking about the modularity issue
17:06:41 [DanC]
agenda + follow-up on the HTML 5 release, handling comments
17:06:42 [MikeSmith]
Sam: I have no preferences at the moment, first telcon I've joined, I have no preferences
17:07:05 [DanC]
agenda + HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5
17:07:06 [MikeSmith]
DanC : I think the HTML5 spec release is worth a little partying
17:07:54 [DanC]
agenda + heartbeat requirement
17:08:01 [Zakim]
+Gregory_Rosmaita
17:08:13 [MikeSmith]
present+ Gregory
17:08:33 [Lachy]
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17:08:46 [MikeSmith]
shepazu : interested in modularity but I don't want to drive the meeting
17:08:50 [DanC]
agenda + aria-role ISSUE-14 (edit)
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17:09:10 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:09:10 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-01-24T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC]
17:09:20 [MikeSmith]
DanC : I need to be out of here at 12:00 central
17:09:20 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 1
17:09:20 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-01-24T17:00:00Z, closed
17:09:22 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:09:22 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:09:24 [Zakim]
2. scope, requirements, and modularity http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2 [from DanC]
17:09:26 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "scope, requirements, and modularity http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2" taken up [from DanC]
17:09:37 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:09:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
17:09:37 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:09:40 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, Microsoft is me
17:09:40 [Zakim]
+ChrisWilson; got it
17:09:46 [MikeSmith]
present+ ChrisWilson
17:10:00 [DanC]
Zakim, agenda?
17:10:00 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
17:10:01 [Zakim]
2. scope, requirements, and modularity http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2 [from DanC]
17:10:04 [Zakim]
3. follow-up on the HTML 5 release, handling comments [from DanC]
17:10:06 [Zakim]
4. HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5 [from DanC]
17:10:07 [Zakim]
5. heartbeat requirement [from DanC]
17:10:08 [Zakim]
6. aria-role ISSUE-14 (edit) [from DanC]
17:10:32 [MikeSmith]
i/going around the table/Topic: agenda bashing/
17:10:36 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:10:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
17:11:37 [DanC]
-> http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/01/modularity.html Simple things make firm foundations
17:11:38 [MikeSmith]
DanC : one side note related to modularity is in W3 Q&A weblog
17:11:52 [DanC]
-> http://www.w3.org/blog/tag/ TAG blog
17:12:05 [Preston]
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17:12:09 [MikeSmith]
DanC : from W3C Directory Tim Berners-Lee
17:12:18 [MikeSmith]
s/Directory/Director/
17:12:25 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/01/modularity.html
17:12:40 [MikeSmith]
anne : I read that as saying that it could be *implemented* in a modular way
17:12:44 [Preston]
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17:12:51 [MikeSmith]
... not necessarily written in a modular way
17:12:51 [DanC]
action-13?
17:12:51 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-13 -- Chris Wilson to talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion -- due 2008-02-05 -- OPEN
17:12:51 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/13
17:13:11 [MikeSmith]
ChrisWilson: no progress on that yet
17:13:13 [DanC]
action-14?
17:13:13 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-14 -- Chris Wilson to get more information on MS patent review with <canvas> -- due 2008-03-01 -- OPEN
17:13:13 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/14
17:13:48 [MikeSmith]
ChrisWilson : This obviously is in progress but I won't have anything to say until our legal team gets back
17:14:13 [MikeSmith]
... March 1st is probably before they will be done, but I don't want to drop it
17:14:18 [DanC]
action-14?
17:14:18 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-14 -- Chris Wilson to get more information on MS patent review with <canvas> -- due 2008-05-01 -- OPEN
17:14:18 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/14
17:14:29 [DanC]
action-27?
17:14:29 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-27 -- Dan Connolly to draft a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with microformats.org regarding @rel values -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
17:14:29 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/27
17:14:44 [MikeSmith]
DanC : a little progress on this ...
17:14:55 [MikeSmith]
... I talked with Rigo Wiening
17:15:06 [MikeSmith]
... he's interested in having the registry at W3C
17:15:16 [MikeSmith]
... also David Orchard of BEA
17:15:29 [MikeSmith]
... I continue to investigate the microformats.org
17:15:42 [DanC]
agenda + next meeting... 31 Jan?
17:15:47 [MikeSmith]
... wondering for example what would happen if they get sued
17:15:52 [DanC]
action-38?
17:15:52 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-38 -- Dan Connolly to chairs to review need for amending charter with Director -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
17:15:52 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/38
17:16:23 [MikeSmith]
DanC : hmm, due today... I guess we're not done with that
17:16:41 [MikeSmith]
ChrisWilson : right, I don't think we've reached a conclusion on that
17:16:55 [MikeSmith]
DanC : I'm gonna get progress on that in the next week, most likely
17:17:04 [DanC]
action-41?
17:17:04 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-41 -- Dan Connolly to consider a new requirements issue about the overlap with HTTP -- due 2008-01-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:17:04 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/41
17:17:18 [MikeSmith]
... time with ... Tim maybe today
17:17:23 [DanC]
action-28?
17:17:23 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-28 -- Dan Connolly to consult with the Hypertext CG and W3C management about how much time W3C member organizations should be allowed to study the patent implications of an HTML 5 spec 1st WD -- due 2007-12-19 -- CLOSED
17:17:23 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/28
17:17:30 [DanC]
issue-28?
17:17:30 [trackbot-ng]
ISSUE-28 -- Content type rules in HTML 5 overlaps with the HTTP specification? -- OPEN
17:17:30 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/28
17:17:58 [MikeSmith]
DanC : basically, I almost did an Internet Draft back in August
17:18:17 [MikeSmith]
... I've not checked what impact if any this might have on the HTML spec
17:18:23 [MikeSmith]
trackbot-ng, close action-41
17:18:23 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-41 Consider a new requirements issue about the overlap with HTTP closed
17:18:51 [MikeSmith]
DanC : Julian, you expressed some interest in that?
17:19:00 [MikeSmith]
Julian : the content-type sniffing thing?
17:19:03 [MikeSmith]
DanC : yeah
17:19:09 [MikeSmith]
Julian : yeah, let's talk about it now
17:19:39 [MikeSmith]
Julian : issue is that HTML spec mandates content-type sniffing ...
17:19:52 [MikeSmith]
... while the HTTP spec and TAG document prohibit it
17:20:04 [MikeSmith]
DanC : I would really like a test case
17:20:22 [MikeSmith]
Julian : I think Ian Hickson has a big set of test cases
17:20:25 [MikeSmith]
... related to this
17:20:27 [MikeSmith]
Hixie ?
17:20:40 [MikeSmith]
DanC : anybody got a URL for that?
17:20:52 [Julian]
test cases: http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/
17:21:15 [MikeSmith]
DanC : would like EARL reports on these
17:21:16 [matt]
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17:21:35 [MikeSmith]
DanC : would like review by the HTTP working group
17:21:56 [MikeSmith]
Julian : We have the argument that, on the one hand, the specs require to trust the content-type that is given
17:22:05 [MikeSmith]
... but the HTML spec requiring UAs not to do that
17:22:33 [gsnedders]
Julian: didn't you mean http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ ?
17:22:44 [MikeSmith]
... also the ongoing discussing about if a UA is required to report discrepancies if it does sniffing and finds them
17:22:52 [DanC]
trackbot-ng, status
17:22:55 [gsnedders]
(the ones in the parent folder merely check it obeys the given content-type in some cases)
17:22:59 [hober]
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17:22:59 [Julian]
gsnedders: yeah
17:23:20 [DanC]
. ACTION: Julian to investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG
17:23:34 [gsnedders]
DanC: http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ it should be
17:23:57 [DanC]
ACTION: Julian to investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG
17:23:57 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-44 - Investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG [on Julian Reschke - due 2008-01-31].
17:24:14 [MikeSmith]
Julian : looking at that, it seems like the tests may actually have expected results stated
17:24:36 [DanC]
ACTION: Dan to developer EARL/hReview reports based on http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ from a handful of user agents
17:24:36 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-45 - Developer EARL/hReview reports based on http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ from a handful of user agents [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-01-31].
17:24:49 [MikeSmith]
DanC : so much for that
17:24:57 [DanC]
issue-29?
17:24:57 [trackbot-ng]
ISSUE-29 -- Should the HTML 5 specification introduce URI schemes such as javascript:? -- OPEN
17:24:57 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/29
17:25:14 [MikeSmith]
DanC : I might have jumped the gun on this on a little bit
17:25:41 [gsnedders]
for javascript: the normal parsing rules for URIs can't apply, because it relies on all kinds of behaviour
17:25:42 [ChrisWilson]
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17:25:45 [MikeSmith]
... anne clarified that there may be a separate draft spec related to this
17:26:02 [ChrisWilson]
hmmm...that explains why I wasn't getting any updates.
17:26:07 [MikeSmith]
DanC : we should decide as a working group whether that's in scope
17:26:17 [MikeSmith]
DanC : anybody want to take action on that?
17:26:24 [MikeSmith]
anne : what kind of action?
17:26:41 [Julian]
q+q+
17:26:46 [Julian]
q+
17:26:49 [MikeSmith]
shepazu : leaving it in the "someday" pile means it stays in the spec ...
17:26:51 [Zakim]
+??P0
17:27:40 [DanC]
(roll call isn't critical for this meeting, since decisions aren't binding)
17:27:44 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, ??P0 is Samuel
17:27:44 [Zakim]
+Samuel; got it
17:27:50 [anne]
http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt
17:27:54 [MikeSmith]
present+ Samuel
17:28:03 [anne]
October 28, 2006
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17:28:30 [MikeSmith]
anne : there is no "01"
17:28:42 [MikeSmith]
DanC : somebody should ping Bjoern about it
17:28:49 [MikeSmith]
Julian : yeah, I can do that
17:29:15 [MikeSmith]
... I think the javascript URI thing never went anywhere ...
17:29:32 [MikeSmith]
... because nobody agreed it could [identify] a resource
17:29:57 [DanC]
ACTION: Julian ask B. Hoehrmann about any plans to update http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt
17:29:57 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-46 - Ask B. Hoehrmann about any plans to update http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt [on Julian Reschke - due 2008-01-31].
17:30:08 [Julian]
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-scheme-00
17:30:31 [MikeSmith]
DanC : anybody know if javascript: is used outside of a@href ?
17:30:41 [sampablokuper]
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17:30:56 [MikeSmith]
... used outside of HTML ?
17:30:56 [shepazu]
I'm not sure that "javascript:" is much different in respect to defining a resource than "data:uri"
17:31:07 [MikeSmith]
ChrisWilson : in Favorites
17:31:12 [MikeSmith]
anne : also in SVG
17:31:39 [DanC]
ack Julian
17:31:48 [DanC]
queue=
17:31:53 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:31:53 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "follow-up on the HTML 5 release, handling comments" taken up [from DanC]
17:31:59 [MikeSmith]
DanC : user-agent community has already to my satisfaction demonstrated that it could be used [like? as?] a URI
17:32:15 [MikeSmith]
DanC : anybody sees Paul Krill's article?
17:32:15 [oedipus]
there are MANY examples in the wild of javascript: being used as a pseudo-HREF -- javascript:var popupwin=this.window.open etc.
17:32:22 [MikeSmith]
q+ to comment on that article
17:32:36 [MikeSmith]
http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/22/W3C-offers-HTML-5-draft_1.html
17:32:40 [DanC]
krill article http://www.infoworld.com/archives/emailPrint.jsp?R=printThis&A=/article/08/01/22/W3C-offers-HTML-5-draft_1.html
17:32:54 [MikeSmith]
[[
17:32:57 [MikeSmith]
"The most interesting thing will be what happens when those capabilities get into native HTML and what impact that has on the rich Internet development market," he said. Specific plug-in technologies are not supported on every platform, he said. "[Thusly], as a developer I might be more interested in writing HTML 5," Hammond said.
17:32:58 [MikeSmith]
]]
17:33:05 [DanC]
-- Jeffrey Hammond
17:33:59 [Silenius]
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17:34:01 [DanC]
not even idiot comments: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/08/01/22/175243.shtml
17:34:02 [MikeSmith]
DanC : and HTML5 got on Slashdot...
17:34:45 [DanC]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/
17:35:16 [MikeSmith]
DanC : so this publication has actually generated comments on the public-html-comments list
17:35:42 [MikeSmith]
DanC : If you respond to comments there, make it clear that you are not responding on behalf of the working group
17:36:11 [MikeSmith]
... the only way to respond on behalf of the group is to quote an actual working-group decision
17:36:31 [MikeSmith]
q+ to suggest we encourage members of the WG to subscribe to the comments list
17:36:35 [DanC]
agenda + phrase-level and semantic element discussion... separate mailing list?
17:36:43 [DanC]
ack MikeSmith
17:36:43 [Zakim]
MikeSmith, you wanted to comment on that article and to suggest we encourage members of the WG to subscribe to the comments list
17:37:46 [anne]
http://cgi.w3.org/member-bin/MailingListQuery.pl?queryList=public-html-comments says 41
17:37:53 [oedipus]
GJR: mikeTMsmith, although it is a top-level link on the HTML WG page, most people don't know of its existence and even though in the spec, people diving down into details and skipping the intro, which is human nature, which cannot be changed....
17:37:54 [MikeSmith]
q?
17:38:07 [DanC]
Zakim, close this item
17:38:07 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
17:38:08 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:38:08 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:38:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
17:38:09 [Zakim]
4. HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5 [from DanC]
17:38:13 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item heartbeat
17:38:13 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "heartbeat requirement" taken up [from DanC]
17:38:19 [MikeSmith]
oedipus - true that
17:38:28 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/3
17:38:48 [oedipus]
mikeTMsmith - it's the danger of checklists and best practices documents -- people work off of them, rather than the actual TR
17:38:52 [DanC]
issue-19?
17:38:52 [trackbot-ng]
ISSUE-19 -- HTML 5 specification 1st release as W3C WD -- CLOSED
17:38:52 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/19
17:38:54 [MikeSmith]
DanC : product3 in tracker is W3C publications
17:39:29 [gsnedders]
MikeSmith: action-37 can be closed
17:39:39 [MikeSmith]
April 22
17:40:11 [MikeSmith]
DanC : what's the next draft anybody wants to see published?
17:40:36 [MikeSmith]
ChrisWilson : I would like to put in a request to not re-publish the spec every 3 months
17:41:18 [MikeSmith]
... (because of need to do patent review)
17:41:31 [gsnedders]
I don't think it's worthwhile republishing the spec every 3 months, but what other documents do we have that change enough to be worthwhile publishing?
17:41:44 [oedipus]
q+ to ask if WCAG (web content accessibility guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL and ATAG (authoring tool accessibility wg - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU) has been approached about working with HTML WG with on authoring guidelines? that is what these groups do, and both have expressed willingness to work with the HTML WG on such documentation
17:42:02 [MikeSmith]
... we either have to do a patent review every time we publish the spec, or we have to agree before publishing [about all changes that go into the spec between publications]
17:42:02 [DanC]
ack oedipus
17:42:02 [Zakim]
oedipus, you wanted to ask if WCAG (web content accessibility guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL and ATAG (authoring tool accessibility wg - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU) has been
17:42:05 [Zakim]
... approached about working with HTML WG with on authoring guidelines? that is what these groups do, and both have expressed willingness to work with the HTML WG on such
17:42:07 [Zakim]
... documentation
17:42:35 [DanC]
Zakim, close this agendum
17:42:35 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
17:42:36 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:42:37 [Zakim]
4. HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5 [from DanC]
17:42:39 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:42:39 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5" taken up [from DanC]
17:42:46 [oedipus]
has WCAG (web content accessibility guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL and ATAG (authoring tool accessibility wg - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU) has been approached about working with HTML WG with on authoring guidelines? that is what these groups do, and both have expressed willingness to work with the HTML WG on such documentation
17:42:51 [MikeSmith]
GR: has the WAI authoring-tool group or [other WAI group] been approached about collaborating?
17:43:07 [MikeSmith]
DanC : not been approached to my knowledge
17:43:50 [MikeSmith]
GR: I have talked to them, but I think they want somebody other than me [from the HTML WG] to approach them
17:44:06 [MikeSmith]
DanC : they are hereby welcomed
17:44:06 [DanC]
trackbot-ng, status
17:44:25 [DanC]
ACTION: Gregory: invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines
17:44:25 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Gregory:
17:44:27 [oedipus]
DanC, use wai-liaison@w3.org and what other public list
17:44:40 [DanC]
ACTION: Gregory invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines
17:44:40 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-47 - Invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-01-31].
17:45:00 [MikeSmith]
action-37?
17:45:00 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-37 -- Michael(tm) Smith to announce Planet HTML5 on public-html-announce, http://www.w3.org/html/, wherever else appropriate -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
17:45:00 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/37
17:45:13 [DanC]
action-29
17:45:17 [DanC]
action-29?
17:45:17 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-29 -- Dan Connolly to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
17:45:17 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29
17:45:21 [MikeSmith]
trackbot-ng, close action-37
17:45:21 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-37 Announce Planet HTML5 on public-html-announce, http://www.w3.org/html/, wherever else appropriate closed
17:45:46 [MikeSmith]
DanC : I did follow up on action-29 ...
17:45:53 [MikeSmith]
... it has gone up the tree ...
17:46:05 [MikeSmith]
... I don't know if it has gone up to the Pope yet ...
17:46:38 [dbaron]
dbaron has joined #html-wg
17:46:44 [MikeSmith]
... I did not push it [all the way] up the hill yet
17:46:44 [oedipus]
GJR: if DanC wants to play sissyphus than he will plus one
17:47:07 [MikeSmith]
Sam: I encourage you to pursue it, Dan
17:47:41 [oedipus]
GJR: am checking what ATAG documents do...
17:48:04 [MikeSmith]
DanC : use case: sometimes it's useful for certain kinds of applications to emit messages that quote parts of W3C specs ...
17:48:42 [MikeSmith]
... [but applications are currently not free to do that because of W3C license restrictions]
17:49:03 [MikeSmith]
anne : [there is some precedent for dual licensing]
17:49:17 [DanC]
action-32?
17:49:17 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-32 -- Michael(tm) Smith to change the product name of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something else, eventually -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
17:49:17 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/32
17:49:24 [MikeSmith]
shepazu : some in AC may be concerned about it setting a precedent
17:49:34 [MikeSmith]
trackbot-ng, close action-32
17:49:34 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-32 Change the product name of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something else, eventually closed
17:49:40 [DanC]
action-33?
17:49:40 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-33 -- Chris Wilson to investigate an HTML WG blog, a la the way the I18N WG does it -- due 2008-02-05 -- OPEN
17:49:40 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/33
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17:50:10 [shepazu]
that's just my opinion, not a team stance
17:50:11 [gavin]
e/win 26
17:51:51 [MikeSmith]
anne : value of an HTML WG blog might be a place for people to blog about HTML5 instead of just on their blog
17:52:00 [MikeSmith]
... I think Planet HTML5 is good enough
17:52:27 [MikeSmith]
ChrisWilson : Planet HTML5 is just aggregating blogs from elsewhere ...
17:53:02 [MikeSmith]
q+ to mention mechanism that Planet HTML5
17:53:27 [MikeSmith]
DanC : so far only the chairs are authorized to speak on behalf of the WG
17:53:53 [MikeSmith]
q?
17:54:07 [DanC]
close action-33
17:54:07 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-33 Investigate an HTML WG blog, a la the way the I18N WG does it closed
17:54:15 [MikeSmith]
q?
17:54:18 [DanC]
action-34?
17:54:18 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-34 -- Lachlan Hunt to prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
17:54:18 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/34
17:54:30 [MikeSmith]
Lachy ?
17:54:33 [MikeSmith]
you around?
17:54:36 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:54:36 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, DanC
17:54:42 [DanC]
ack next
17:54:43 [Zakim]
MikeSmith, you wanted to mention mechanism that Planet HTML5
17:55:21 [DanC]
(I think the mechanism Mike is mentioning is documented in recent mail to public-html )
17:55:34 [DanC]
(a pointer would be nice...)
17:55:58 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:55:58 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "aria-role ISSUE-14 (edit)" taken up [from DanC]
17:56:01 [oedipus]
GJR's ARIA status report:
17:56:01 [oedipus]
ARIA Suite will now contain: 1) ARIA Roadmap; 2) Roles, States, and Properties for Accessible Rich Internet Applications (combination of 2 previously seperate documents); 3) ARIA Best Practices; and 4) ARIA Primer (new)
17:56:01 [oedipus]
two approaches to embedding ARIA:
17:56:01 [oedipus]
1) no namespaces, no prefixes -- host languages reserve all attribute names matching the pattern aria-*. This allows the ARIA states and properties to be controlled by the PFWG specification, including future maintenance.
17:56:02 [oedipus]
2) by Namespaces in XML -- Role Attribute Module () will give @role a 'home' namespace from which it can be cited using the Namespaces in XML Recommendation technique, so that ARIA can be used in DIAL and other dialects of XHTML, which are likely to be used primarily to feed middleware, as there is no immediate prospect of this technology being picked up widely by browsers any time soon
17:56:07 [oedipus]
testing - collaborative matrix (ARIA Test Tests) being maintained at: http://html4all.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTests
17:56:10 [oedipus]
problem: links to Best Practices document (no public draft yet) and the 2 drafts that are now one, but are not yet public
17:57:37 [DanC]
(I strongly encourage you to migrate from html4all.org to the esw.w3.org wiki)
17:57:55 [MikeSmith]
oedipus : only reason it's at html4all is that esw wiki doesn't allow hyperlinks in <dt>
17:58:17 [DanC]
ACTION-23?
17:58:17 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-23 -- Gregory Rosmaita to coordinate tests using ARIA -- due 2008-01-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:58:17 [trackbot-ng]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23
17:58:19 [MikeSmith]
oedipus : I have to keep it open until new drafts come out ...
17:58:23 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:58:23 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "next meeting... 31 Jan?" taken up [from DanC]
17:58:24 [MikeSmith]
... because there have been changes
17:58:58 [MikeSmith]
ChrisWilson : can't chair on 31st because I'll be at Web Directions North
17:59:02 [MikeSmith]
DanC : I can't either
17:59:19 [MikeSmith]
DanC : propose to cancel 31 January and I can chair on 7 Feb
17:59:24 [DanC]
so resolved
17:59:27 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:59:27 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "phrase-level and semantic element discussion... separate mailing list?" taken up [from DanC]
17:59:33 [DanC]
agenda?
17:59:44 [sampablokuper]
2nded
17:59:56 [Zakim]
-Gregory_Rosmaita
17:59:57 [Zakim]
-anne
17:59:58 [MikeSmith]
[adjourned]
18:00:01 [Zakim]
-Sam_Kuper
18:00:02 [Zakim]
-ChrisWilson
18:00:02 [Zakim]
-Julian
18:00:15 [Lachy]
hey
18:00:20 [Zakim]
-Doug
18:00:22 [Zakim]
-DanC
18:00:25 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:00:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
18:00:50 [DanC]
Regrets+ Marcin_Hanclik
18:00:59 [MikeSmith]
Lachy - wanted to ask for status update on your authoring-guide draft
18:01:01 [adele]
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18:01:10 [MikeSmith]
but it can wait til later
18:01:28 [Lachy]
I made some updates. I intend to make some more and get a decent draft by the end of the month
18:01:32 [Lachy]
if I can find the time
18:02:26 [MikeSmith]
Lachy - Ok, if you have time, might be good to post a short status report to public-html to let people know it's been update
18:02:30 [MikeSmith]
updated
18:02:44 [Zakim]
-Samuel
18:02:47 [Lachy]
yeah, will do when I make some more substantial updates
18:02:58 [Lachy]
I want to take all the previous feedback into account first
18:03:10 [MikeSmith]
some possibility of that being a candidate for publishing to meet our April 22 heartbeat deadline
18:03:18 [MikeSmith]
Lachy - understood
18:03:29 [Lachy]
in particular, work out a good way of presenting and describing each element
18:03:41 [Lachy]
I should be able to get an FPWD ready by April
18:03:45 [MikeSmith]
to publish by April 22, we would want to have it wrapped up at least 3 weeks before then
18:04:27 [Lachy]
yep. I assume we would need another group survey, plus plenty of arguining about why it shouldn't be published before then
18:04:28 [Lachy]
:-)
18:05:17 [MikeSmith]
Lachy - yeah ;)
18:05:23 [MikeSmith]
agreement from group by March 31 to publish it, I think
18:05:34 [Lachy]
ok
18:05:51 [MikeSmith]
probably at least two weeks of wrangling before that
18:06:23 [MikeSmith]
so freezed by March 17 or so perhaps
18:06:24 [Lachy]
ok, so I need to put in a lot of work during feb
18:06:55 [Lachy]
I don't like freezing WDs
18:07:08 [MikeSmith]
yeah, I think you would, if we want to be able to have it ready for review and discussion in mid-March
18:07:47 [Lachy]
I want to get someone to help come up with a nicer stylesheet for it
18:07:55 [Lachy]
mine looks crap :-)
18:08:01 [MikeSmith]
Lachy - yeah, well, groups generally don't like to agree to publish documents that are going to unilaterally change after the version they've agreed to publish
18:08:19 [sampablokuper]
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18:08:53 [Lachy]
well, I can just fork it at some point, make editorial changes only to the one that will be published and more substantial changes to the other
18:09:02 [Lachy]
then merge afterwards
18:09:07 [MikeSmith]
Lachy - yeah, exactly
18:09:39 [MikeSmith]
anyway, this gives you some tangible deadline to work toward
18:09:49 [MikeSmith]
that usually helps to keep motivated
18:09:50 [Lachy]
ok
18:10:59 [MikeSmith]
and to helps editors to convince slave-devil managers/employers to allow them time to do the writing
18:11:43 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, pointer?
18:11:43 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-irc#T18-11-43
18:12:20 [MikeSmith]
present+ Samuel
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18:35:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, MikeSmith, in HTML_WG()12:00PM
18:35:02 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
18:35:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were DanC, Julian, Sam_Kuper, anne, MikeSmith, Doug, Gregory_Rosmaita, ChrisWilson, Samuel
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23:46:47 [anne]
DanC, HTML5 in fact depends on the javascript: URI scheme registration
23:47:16 [anne]
DanC, HTML5 simply defines how it interacts with navigation, history, and browsing contexts as far as I can tell
23:48:29 [DanC]
ok, then maybe the issue is no big deal
23:48:52 [DanC]
we just need to make sure it gets registered
23:49:01 [anne]
The same goes for the magic about:blank