14:59:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:59:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc
14:59:26 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
14:59:28 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:59:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng, I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM already started
14:59:29 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:59:29 <trackbot-ng> Date: 24 January 2008
14:59:35 <DKA> zakim, code?
14:59:35 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DKA
14:59:38 <francois> Chair: DKA
15:00:10 <francois> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jan/0059.html
15:00:21 <Zakim> +DKA
15:00:37 <DKA> zakim, ??p2 is DKA
15:00:37 <Zakim> +DKA; got it
15:00:51 <Zakim> +??P7
15:00:55 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
15:00:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA.a, DKA, ??P7
15:00:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, achuter, matt, jo, DKA, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
15:01:17 <Zakim> -DKA.a
15:01:29 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
15:01:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, ??P7
15:01:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, achuter, matt, jo, DKA, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
15:01:45 <francois> Regrets: Jo, RobFinean, adam, miguel, MartinJ, Heiko, Jason, Daniel_Schutzer, Dave_Roberts, Chaals, Ed_Mitukiewicz, Kemp, PhilA, dom
15:02:06 <Zakim> +??P6
15:02:10 <francois> zakim, ??P7 is probably me
15:02:14 <Zakim> +??P10
15:02:22 <Zakim> +francois?; got it
15:02:24 <nacho> nacho has joined #bpwg
15:02:56 <Kai> Kai has joined #bpwg
15:02:56 <francois> zakim, ??P10 is probably Yeliz
15:02:56 <Zakim> +Yeliz?; got it
15:02:58 <srowen> srowen has joined #bpwg
15:03:19 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
15:03:34 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
15:03:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, francois?, achuter, Yeliz?
15:03:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see abel, srowen, Kai, nacho, Zakim, RRSAgent, achuter, matt, jo, DKA, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
15:04:03 <Zakim> + +1.703.265.aaaa
15:04:26 <Zakim> +berrueta
15:04:27 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
15:04:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, francois?, achuter (muted), Yeliz?, +1.703.265.aaaa, berrueta
15:04:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see abel, srowen, Kai, nacho, Zakim, RRSAgent, achuter, matt, jo, DKA, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
15:04:31 <nacho> zakim, berrueta is me
15:04:31 <Zakim> +nacho; got it
15:04:36 <nacho> zakim, abel is with me
15:04:36 <Zakim> +abel; got it
15:04:40 <Magnus> Magnus has joined #bpwg
15:04:50 <Magnus> zakim, code?
15:04:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Magnus
15:05:38 <francois> zakim, aaaa is AlanTai
15:05:38 <Zakim> +AlanTai; got it
15:07:00 <Alan_Tai> Alan_Tai has joined #bpwg
15:07:02 <Zakim> +Sean_Owen
15:07:21 <francois> zakim, mute me
15:07:21 <Zakim> francois? should now be muted
15:07:58 <nacho> zakim, who is noisy?
15:08:09 <Zakim> nacho, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (50%), achuter (8%), Yeliz? (19%), AlanTai (5%)
15:08:25 <Alan_Tai> ok, just muted myself
15:08:58 <francois> Scribe: AlanTai
15:09:04 <francois> ScribeNick: Alan_Tai
15:09:12 <Alan_Tai> Dan: Taskforce leaders not present, so we'll skip agenda .1
15:09:22 <Bryan> Bryan has joined #bpwg
15:09:27 <alan_chuter> alan_chuter has joined #bpwg
15:09:47 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/mwbp-wcag/ First public working draft of the Relationship between MWBP and WCAG doc
15:10:03 <Alan_Tai> Alan: Accesibility main document is now a public working draft.
15:10:30 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #bpwg
15:10:30 <Alan_Tai> It's now on W3C home page.
15:10:47 <alan_chuter> zakim, mute me
15:10:47 <Zakim> sorry, alan_chuter, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:11:18 <Zakim> +Magnus
15:11:30 <Zakim> +SeanP
15:12:44 <alan_chuter> Yeliz Yesilada
15:13:37 <Zakim> +Bryan_Sullivan
15:14:09 <Alan_Tai> Dan: Next item is BP2 document.  We'll skip this for now to get to some logistical items.
15:14:32 <Alan_Tai> Dan: Korean F2F just over a month away.
15:16:23 <francois> q+
15:16:25 <francois> ack me
15:16:37 <francois> zakim, unmute me
15:16:37 <Zakim> francois? was not muted, francois
15:17:18 <Alan_Tai> Francois: Should hear official news from guys in Korea.  They're working on hotels and how to get there.  Should be ready by tomorrow.
15:18:23 <Alan_Tai> Dan: Have a proposal for F2F in Spain and another proposal for in Mandela(sp?) in October.
15:18:40 <jo> s/Mandela(sp?)/Mandelieu/
15:18:54 <Alan_Tai> Dan: Mandelieu is a no-brainer.
15:19:32 <nacho> s/F2F in Spain/F2F in Zaragoza (Spain)/
15:21:03 <Alan_Tai> Nacho: between 14th of June and 14th of September.  Asking them about venue details and rooms.
15:21:39 <Alan_Tai> Nacho: Expo has the same range of dates, so difficult to find rooms.
15:21:54 <jo> [suggest we look only at end June or 1st week in July as otherwise folks tend to be away]
15:22:23 <francois> Regrets+ drooks
15:23:16 <Alan_Tai> ACTION: Nacho will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts.
15:23:16 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - Nacho
15:23:40 <jo> ACTION: Marin will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts
15:23:40 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-629 - Will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts [on Ignacio Marin - due 2008-01-31].
15:24:22 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will meet at the TPAC in France in October 2008.
15:24:28 <nacho> +1
15:24:32 <Kai> +1
15:24:35 <francois> +1
15:24:37 <abel> +1
15:24:43 <alan_chuter> +1
15:24:45 <nacho> :-)
15:24:53 <DKA> RESOLUTION: We will meet at the TPAC in France in October 2008.
15:25:35 <francois> ACTION: daoust to check with organizers of the TPAC in France in October 2008
15:25:35 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-630 - Check with organizers of the TPAC in France in October 2008 [on François Daoust - due 2008-01-31].
15:26:33 <Alan_Tai> Dan: Francois taking over role as BP information task force leader.
15:26:50 <jo> s/information/content transformation/
15:27:56 <Alan_Tai> Francois: Current roadmap is to present something by mid-February and do first working draft in Korea.
15:29:11 <DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Jan/att-0003/Mobile_Web_Best_Practices_2_0.htm
15:29:45 <francois> Regrets+ Shahriar
15:29:56 <Zakim> +Kai_Dietrich
15:30:13 <Alan_Tai> Bryan: still looking for feedback.
15:31:31 <Alan_Tai> Dan: Can to a first public working draft by Korea F2F?
15:32:15 <Kai> Kai has joined #bpwg
15:33:20 <francois> Topic: Open issues and Actions
15:33:22 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open Open issues
15:39:29 <Alan_Tai> For issue-230, we'll put this off until next week.
15:41:24 <Alan_Tai> For issue-231, we need a concrete proposed resolution.
15:41:33 <Alan_Tai> John: will make issue-231 more concrete.
15:42:47 <srowen> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Close ISSUE-232 and resolve to modify LINK TARGET FORMAT to only apply to text resources -- those with known markup MIME types or "text/*"
15:42:58 <francois> s/John/Sean
15:43:11 <Alan_Tai> doh, thanks :)
15:43:28 <DKA> +1
15:44:11 <srowen> RESOLUTION: Close ISSUE-232 and resolve to modify LINK TARGET FORMAT to only apply to text resources -- those with known markup MIME types or "text/*"
15:44:22 <matt> matt has joined #bpwg
15:45:32 <DKA> Change is noted in the minutes.
15:48:14 <srowen> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: modify mobileOK Basic tests to not consider '#' an invalid target, and to instead specifically except this as allowable
15:48:30 <jo> -1 as it is invalid!
15:48:47 <DKA> +1 as it is comon usage and not allowing it will mean that we fail lots of otherwise working pages
15:49:00 <Bryan> q+
15:49:05 <jo> not suggesting we fail on it
15:49:46 <Kai> q+
15:49:57 <francois> ack bryan
15:49:57 <DKA> ack bry
15:49:59 <DKA> k kai
15:50:02 <francois> ack kai
15:50:48 <jo> [joining the call]
15:51:12 <jo> zakim, code?
15:51:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
15:51:39 <Zakim> +jo
15:52:01 <DKA> ack jo
15:53:30 <srowen> (+1 to keeping current warning)
15:53:35 <dom> (+1)
15:53:54 <jo> issue-233?
15:53:54 <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-233 -- Need clarification of why # is invalid as a link target -- OPEN
15:53:54 <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/233
15:56:09 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: ISSUE-233 leave wording as is and add explanatory note on why # is considered invalid
15:56:34 <Zakim> -Magnus
15:56:38 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: ISSUE-233 leave wording as is and add explanatory note on why # is considered invalid and Close ISSUE
15:56:39 <Zakim> -Kai_Dietrich
15:58:30 <jo> RESOLUTION: ISSUE-233 leave wording as is and add explanatory note on why # is considered invalid and close issue
15:58:41 <jo> cloase Issue-233
15:58:53 <jo> close Issue-233
15:59:11 <jo> close ISSUE-233
15:59:37 <jo> s/cloase Issue-233//
15:59:45 <jo> s/close Issue-233//
15:59:54 <jo> s/close ISSUE-233//
16:00:16 <jo> Topic: ISSUE-234
16:00:20 <jo> issue-234?
16:00:20 <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-234 -- PAGE_SIZE_LIMIT Should Objects Tasted count towards the overall page weight -- OPEN
16:00:20 <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/234
16:00:50 <Bryan> q+
16:01:27 <DKA> q?
16:01:30 <DKA> ack bryan
16:01:44 <DKA> q+ to note that page weight is not just about bandwidth
16:04:01 <Alan_Tai> Bryan: no way currently as a content provider that preaching is turned on
16:04:24 <Alan_Tai> s/preaching/precaching
16:05:09 <Alan_Tai> Jo: Browser would have to taste the content to know what the media type is because it can't find out any other way.
16:07:26 <DKA> ack
16:09:03 <dom> [it can skip downloading when the type attribute is set, though]
16:10:51 <jo> [agreed, but we need to find out whether that is the way real browsers behave]
16:11:18 <Alan_Tai> Dan: Not comfortable with approach of counting bytes in redirects.
16:13:37 <Alan_Tai> Jo: we have an inconsistency in that objects can be quite big.
16:14:40 <srowen> the page weight test is intended to account for not only device memory limitations, but bandwidth limits *and costs*
16:14:48 <Bryan> q+
16:14:53 <DKA> ack dka
16:14:53 <Zakim> DKA, you wanted to note that page weight is not just about bandwidth
16:16:03 <DKA> ack bry
16:16:06 <jo> regrets- jo
16:16:10 <Alan_Tai> Bryan: this issue would discourage people from using th enested object tag.  Agrees with Dan that this shouldn't count against total page weight.
16:16:51 <DKA> s/Bryan/Srowen/
16:17:21 <Alan_Tai> doh, sorry--you guys all sound the same :)
16:17:25 <DKA> :)
16:18:01 <jo> q+ to say that before we ignore them we should make sure that they are indeed retrieved
16:18:09 <DKA> q?
16:18:12 <DKA> ack jo
16:18:12 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to say that before we ignore them we should make sure that they are indeed retrieved
16:19:43 <Alan_Tai> Jo: We should see what browsers actually do, then we can make an assessment on whether it's ok to ignore or not.
16:20:25 <jo> q+ to say that we are in fact discouraging people from using Object, but only in the respect tha we are asking them to be aware that there is a cost associated with it
16:20:44 <DKA> ack jo
16:20:44 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to say that we are in fact discouraging people from using Object, but only in the respect tha we are asking them to be aware that there is a cost associated with it
16:21:02 <Alan_Tai> Action for Francois to talk with Dom and get more data.
16:21:16 <francois> ACTION: daoust to check with Dom about test cases for ISSUE-234
16:21:16 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-631 - Check with Dom about test cases for ISSUE-234 [on François Daoust - due 2008-01-31].
16:22:58 <Alan_Tai> Dan: We'll put issue-234 on backburner and come back to it.
16:24:48 <Zakim> -DKA
16:24:49 <Zakim> -jo
16:24:49 <Zakim> -achuter
16:24:50 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
16:24:52 <Zakim> -Yeliz?
16:24:53 <Zakim> -SeanP
16:24:56 <nacho> bye
16:25:00 <Zakim> -nacho
16:25:05 <abel> bye
16:25:07 <Alan_Tai> ok, cool
16:25:13 <francois> zakim, list attendees
16:25:13 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been DKA, francois?, achuter, Yeliz?, +1.703.265.aaaa, nacho, abel, AlanTai, Sean_Owen, Magnus, SeanP, Bryan_Sullivan, Kai_Dietrich, jo
16:25:14 <Alan_Tai> bye
16:25:16 <Zakim> -francois?
16:25:25 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:25:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-minutes.html francois
16:25:32 <jo> zakim, who is here?
16:25:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see AlanTai, Sean_Owen
16:25:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see matt, alan_chuter, Alan_Tai, abel, nacho, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
16:25:40 <jo> zakim, drop sean_
16:25:40 <Zakim> Sean_Owen is being disconnected
16:25:42 <Zakim> -Sean_Owen
16:25:47 <Zakim> -AlanTai
16:25:48 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
16:25:49 <Zakim> Attendees were DKA, francois?, achuter, Yeliz?, +1.703.265.aaaa, nacho, abel, AlanTai, Sean_Owen, Magnus, SeanP, Bryan_Sullivan, Kai_Dietrich, jo
16:25:57 <jo> present- jo
16:26:00 <nacho> nacho has left #bpwg
16:26:07 <jo> present+ jo_from_1600
16:27:39 <francois> i/Dan: Taskforce leaders not present/Topic: Mobile/Accessibility
16:28:53 <francois> i/Dan: Korean F2F just over a month away./Topic: Next F2F
16:29:35 <francois> i/Dan: Francois taking over role/Topic: Report from CT TF
16:29:50 <francois> i/Bryan: still looking for feedback./Topic: BP2
16:29:58 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:29:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-minutes.html francois
16:30:28 <francois> trackbot-nb, stop teleconf
16:30:32 <francois> trackbot-ng, stop teleconf
16:31:04 <francois> RRSAgent, bye
16:31:04 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-actions.rdf :
16:31:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Nacho will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts. [1]
16:31:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc#T15-23-16
16:31:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Marin will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts [2]
16:31:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc#T15-23-40
16:31:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: daoust to check with organizers of the TPAC in France in October 2008 [3]
16:31:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc#T15-25-35
16:31:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: daoust to check with Dom about test cases for ISSUE-234 [4]
16:31:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc#T16-21-16