IRC log of bpwg on 2008-01-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:59:24 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
- 14:59:24 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc
- 14:59:26 [trackbot-ng]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:59:26 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #bpwg
- 14:59:28 [trackbot-ng]
- Zakim, this will be BPWG
- 14:59:28 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot-ng, I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM already started
- 14:59:29 [trackbot-ng]
- Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
- 14:59:29 [trackbot-ng]
- Date: 24 January 2008
- 14:59:35 [DKA]
- zakim, code?
- 14:59:35 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DKA
- 14:59:38 [francois]
- Chair: DKA
- 15:00:10 [francois]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jan/0059.html
- 15:00:21 [Zakim]
- +DKA
- 15:00:37 [DKA]
- zakim, ??p2 is DKA
- 15:00:37 [Zakim]
- +DKA; got it
- 15:00:51 [Zakim]
- +??P7
- 15:00:55 [DKA]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:00:57 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see DKA.a, DKA, ??P7
- 15:00:58 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, achuter, matt, jo, DKA, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
- 15:01:17 [Zakim]
- -DKA.a
- 15:01:29 [DKA]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:01:29 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see DKA, ??P7
- 15:01:30 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, achuter, matt, jo, DKA, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
- 15:01:45 [francois]
- Regrets: Jo, RobFinean, adam, miguel, MartinJ, Heiko, Jason, Daniel_Schutzer, Dave_Roberts, Chaals, Ed_Mitukiewicz, Kemp, PhilA, dom
- 15:02:06 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 15:02:10 [francois]
- zakim, ??P7 is probably me
- 15:02:14 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 15:02:22 [Zakim]
- +francois?; got it
- 15:02:24 [nacho]
- nacho has joined #bpwg
- 15:02:56 [Kai]
- Kai has joined #bpwg
- 15:02:56 [francois]
- zakim, ??P10 is probably Yeliz
- 15:02:56 [Zakim]
- +Yeliz?; got it
- 15:02:58 [srowen]
- srowen has joined #bpwg
- 15:03:19 [abel]
- abel has joined #bpwg
- 15:03:34 [DKA]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:03:36 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see DKA, francois?, achuter, Yeliz?
- 15:03:37 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see abel, srowen, Kai, nacho, Zakim, RRSAgent, achuter, matt, jo, DKA, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
- 15:04:03 [Zakim]
- + +1.703.265.aaaa
- 15:04:26 [Zakim]
- +berrueta
- 15:04:27 [DKA]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:04:27 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see DKA, francois?, achuter (muted), Yeliz?, +1.703.265.aaaa, berrueta
- 15:04:29 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see abel, srowen, Kai, nacho, Zakim, RRSAgent, achuter, matt, jo, DKA, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
- 15:04:31 [nacho]
- zakim, berrueta is me
- 15:04:31 [Zakim]
- +nacho; got it
- 15:04:36 [nacho]
- zakim, abel is with me
- 15:04:36 [Zakim]
- +abel; got it
- 15:04:40 [Magnus]
- Magnus has joined #bpwg
- 15:04:50 [Magnus]
- zakim, code?
- 15:04:50 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Magnus
- 15:05:38 [francois]
- zakim, aaaa is AlanTai
- 15:05:38 [Zakim]
- +AlanTai; got it
- 15:07:00 [Alan_Tai]
- Alan_Tai has joined #bpwg
- 15:07:02 [Zakim]
- +Sean_Owen
- 15:07:21 [francois]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:07:21 [Zakim]
- francois? should now be muted
- 15:07:58 [nacho]
- zakim, who is noisy?
- 15:08:09 [Zakim]
- nacho, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (50%), achuter (8%), Yeliz? (19%), AlanTai (5%)
- 15:08:25 [Alan_Tai]
- ok, just muted myself
- 15:08:58 [francois]
- Scribe: AlanTai
- 15:09:04 [francois]
- ScribeNick: Alan_Tai
- 15:09:12 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: Taskforce leaders not present, so we'll skip agenda .1
- 15:09:22 [Bryan]
- Bryan has joined #bpwg
- 15:09:27 [alan_chuter]
- alan_chuter has joined #bpwg
- 15:09:47 [francois]
- -> http://www.w3.org/mwbp-wcag/ First public working draft of the Relationship between MWBP and WCAG doc
- 15:10:03 [Alan_Tai]
- Alan: Accesibility main document is now a public working draft.
- 15:10:30 [SeanP]
- SeanP has joined #bpwg
- 15:10:30 [Alan_Tai]
- It's now on W3C home page.
- 15:10:47 [alan_chuter]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:10:47 [Zakim]
- sorry, alan_chuter, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 15:11:18 [Zakim]
- +Magnus
- 15:11:30 [Zakim]
- +SeanP
- 15:12:44 [alan_chuter]
- Yeliz Yesilada
- 15:13:37 [Zakim]
- +Bryan_Sullivan
- 15:14:09 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: Next item is BP2 document. We'll skip this for now to get to some logistical items.
- 15:14:32 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: Korean F2F just over a month away.
- 15:16:23 [francois]
- q+
- 15:16:25 [francois]
- ack me
- 15:16:37 [francois]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:16:37 [Zakim]
- francois? was not muted, francois
- 15:17:18 [Alan_Tai]
- Francois: Should hear official news from guys in Korea. They're working on hotels and how to get there. Should be ready by tomorrow.
- 15:18:23 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: Have a proposal for F2F in Spain and another proposal for in Mandela(sp?) in October.
- 15:18:40 [jo]
- s/Mandela(sp?)/Mandelieu/
- 15:18:54 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: Mandelieu is a no-brainer.
- 15:19:32 [nacho]
- s/F2F in Spain/F2F in Zaragoza (Spain)/
- 15:21:03 [Alan_Tai]
- Nacho: between 14th of June and 14th of September. Asking them about venue details and rooms.
- 15:21:39 [Alan_Tai]
- Nacho: Expo has the same range of dates, so difficult to find rooms.
- 15:21:54 [jo]
- [suggest we look only at end June or 1st week in July as otherwise folks tend to be away]
- 15:22:23 [francois]
- Regrets+ drooks
- 15:23:16 [Alan_Tai]
- ACTION: Nacho will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts.
- 15:23:16 [trackbot-ng]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - Nacho
- 15:23:40 [jo]
- ACTION: Marin will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts
- 15:23:40 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-629 - Will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts [on Ignacio Marin - due 2008-01-31].
- 15:24:22 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will meet at the TPAC in France in October 2008.
- 15:24:28 [nacho]
- +1
- 15:24:32 [Kai]
- +1
- 15:24:35 [francois]
- +1
- 15:24:37 [abel]
- +1
- 15:24:43 [alan_chuter]
- +1
- 15:24:45 [nacho]
- :-)
- 15:24:53 [DKA]
- RESOLUTION: We will meet at the TPAC in France in October 2008.
- 15:25:35 [francois]
- ACTION: daoust to check with organizers of the TPAC in France in October 2008
- 15:25:35 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-630 - Check with organizers of the TPAC in France in October 2008 [on François Daoust - due 2008-01-31].
- 15:26:33 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: Francois taking over role as BP information task force leader.
- 15:26:50 [jo]
- s/information/content transformation/
- 15:27:56 [Alan_Tai]
- Francois: Current roadmap is to present something by mid-February and do first working draft in Korea.
- 15:29:11 [DKA]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Jan/att-0003/Mobile_Web_Best_Practices_2_0.htm
- 15:29:45 [francois]
- Regrets+ Shahriar
- 15:29:56 [Zakim]
- +Kai_Dietrich
- 15:30:13 [Alan_Tai]
- Bryan: still looking for feedback.
- 15:31:31 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: Can to a first public working draft by Korea F2F?
- 15:32:15 [Kai]
- Kai has joined #bpwg
- 15:33:20 [francois]
- Topic: Open issues and Actions
- 15:33:22 [francois]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open Open issues
- 15:39:29 [Alan_Tai]
- For issue-230, we'll put this off until next week.
- 15:41:24 [Alan_Tai]
- For issue-231, we need a concrete proposed resolution.
- 15:41:33 [Alan_Tai]
- John: will make issue-231 more concrete.
- 15:42:47 [srowen]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Close ISSUE-232 and resolve to modify LINK TARGET FORMAT to only apply to text resources -- those with known markup MIME types or "text/*"
- 15:42:58 [francois]
- s/John/Sean
- 15:43:11 [Alan_Tai]
- doh, thanks :)
- 15:43:28 [DKA]
- +1
- 15:44:11 [srowen]
- RESOLUTION: Close ISSUE-232 and resolve to modify LINK TARGET FORMAT to only apply to text resources -- those with known markup MIME types or "text/*"
- 15:44:22 [matt]
- matt has joined #bpwg
- 15:45:32 [DKA]
- Change is noted in the minutes.
- 15:48:14 [srowen]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: modify mobileOK Basic tests to not consider '#' an invalid target, and to instead specifically except this as allowable
- 15:48:30 [jo]
- -1 as it is invalid!
- 15:48:47 [DKA]
- +1 as it is comon usage and not allowing it will mean that we fail lots of otherwise working pages
- 15:49:00 [Bryan]
- q+
- 15:49:05 [jo]
- not suggesting we fail on it
- 15:49:46 [Kai]
- q+
- 15:49:57 [francois]
- ack bryan
- 15:49:57 [DKA]
- ack bry
- 15:49:59 [DKA]
- k kai
- 15:50:02 [francois]
- ack kai
- 15:50:48 [jo]
- [joining the call]
- 15:51:12 [jo]
- zakim, code?
- 15:51:13 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
- 15:51:39 [Zakim]
- +jo
- 15:52:01 [DKA]
- ack jo
- 15:53:30 [srowen]
- (+1 to keeping current warning)
- 15:53:35 [dom]
- (+1)
- 15:53:54 [jo]
- issue-233?
- 15:53:54 [trackbot-ng]
- ISSUE-233 -- Need clarification of why # is invalid as a link target -- OPEN
- 15:53:54 [trackbot-ng]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/233
- 15:56:09 [jo]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: ISSUE-233 leave wording as is and add explanatory note on why # is considered invalid
- 15:56:34 [Zakim]
- -Magnus
- 15:56:38 [jo]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: ISSUE-233 leave wording as is and add explanatory note on why # is considered invalid and Close ISSUE
- 15:56:39 [Zakim]
- -Kai_Dietrich
- 15:58:30 [jo]
- RESOLUTION: ISSUE-233 leave wording as is and add explanatory note on why # is considered invalid and close issue
- 15:58:41 [jo]
- cloase Issue-233
- 15:58:53 [jo]
- close Issue-233
- 15:59:11 [jo]
- close ISSUE-233
- 15:59:37 [jo]
- s/cloase Issue-233//
- 15:59:45 [jo]
- s/close Issue-233//
- 15:59:54 [jo]
- s/close ISSUE-233//
- 16:00:16 [jo]
- Topic: ISSUE-234
- 16:00:20 [jo]
- issue-234?
- 16:00:20 [trackbot-ng]
- ISSUE-234 -- PAGE_SIZE_LIMIT Should Objects Tasted count towards the overall page weight -- OPEN
- 16:00:20 [trackbot-ng]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/234
- 16:00:50 [Bryan]
- q+
- 16:01:27 [DKA]
- q?
- 16:01:30 [DKA]
- ack bryan
- 16:01:44 [DKA]
- q+ to note that page weight is not just about bandwidth
- 16:04:01 [Alan_Tai]
- Bryan: no way currently as a content provider that preaching is turned on
- 16:04:24 [Alan_Tai]
- s/preaching/precaching
- 16:05:09 [Alan_Tai]
- Jo: Browser would have to taste the content to know what the media type is because it can't find out any other way.
- 16:07:26 [DKA]
- ack
- 16:09:03 [dom]
- [it can skip downloading when the type attribute is set, though]
- 16:10:51 [jo]
- [agreed, but we need to find out whether that is the way real browsers behave]
- 16:11:18 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: Not comfortable with approach of counting bytes in redirects.
- 16:13:37 [Alan_Tai]
- Jo: we have an inconsistency in that objects can be quite big.
- 16:14:40 [srowen]
- the page weight test is intended to account for not only device memory limitations, but bandwidth limits *and costs*
- 16:14:48 [Bryan]
- q+
- 16:14:53 [DKA]
- ack dka
- 16:14:53 [Zakim]
- DKA, you wanted to note that page weight is not just about bandwidth
- 16:16:03 [DKA]
- ack bry
- 16:16:06 [jo]
- regrets- jo
- 16:16:10 [Alan_Tai]
- Bryan: this issue would discourage people from using th enested object tag. Agrees with Dan that this shouldn't count against total page weight.
- 16:16:51 [DKA]
- s/Bryan/Srowen/
- 16:17:21 [Alan_Tai]
- doh, sorry--you guys all sound the same :)
- 16:17:25 [DKA]
- :)
- 16:18:01 [jo]
- q+ to say that before we ignore them we should make sure that they are indeed retrieved
- 16:18:09 [DKA]
- q?
- 16:18:12 [DKA]
- ack jo
- 16:18:12 [Zakim]
- jo, you wanted to say that before we ignore them we should make sure that they are indeed retrieved
- 16:19:43 [Alan_Tai]
- Jo: We should see what browsers actually do, then we can make an assessment on whether it's ok to ignore or not.
- 16:20:25 [jo]
- q+ to say that we are in fact discouraging people from using Object, but only in the respect tha we are asking them to be aware that there is a cost associated with it
- 16:20:44 [DKA]
- ack jo
- 16:20:44 [Zakim]
- jo, you wanted to say that we are in fact discouraging people from using Object, but only in the respect tha we are asking them to be aware that there is a cost associated with it
- 16:21:02 [Alan_Tai]
- Action for Francois to talk with Dom and get more data.
- 16:21:16 [francois]
- ACTION: daoust to check with Dom about test cases for ISSUE-234
- 16:21:16 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-631 - Check with Dom about test cases for ISSUE-234 [on François Daoust - due 2008-01-31].
- 16:22:58 [Alan_Tai]
- Dan: We'll put issue-234 on backburner and come back to it.
- 16:24:48 [Zakim]
- -DKA
- 16:24:49 [Zakim]
- -jo
- 16:24:49 [Zakim]
- -achuter
- 16:24:50 [Zakim]
- -Bryan_Sullivan
- 16:24:52 [Zakim]
- -Yeliz?
- 16:24:53 [Zakim]
- -SeanP
- 16:24:56 [nacho]
- bye
- 16:25:00 [Zakim]
- -nacho
- 16:25:05 [abel]
- bye
- 16:25:07 [Alan_Tai]
- ok, cool
- 16:25:13 [francois]
- zakim, list attendees
- 16:25:13 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been DKA, francois?, achuter, Yeliz?, +1.703.265.aaaa, nacho, abel, AlanTai, Sean_Owen, Magnus, SeanP, Bryan_Sullivan, Kai_Dietrich, jo
- 16:25:14 [Alan_Tai]
- bye
- 16:25:16 [Zakim]
- -francois?
- 16:25:25 [francois]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:25:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-minutes.html francois
- 16:25:32 [jo]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:25:32 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AlanTai, Sean_Owen
- 16:25:33 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see matt, alan_chuter, Alan_Tai, abel, nacho, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
- 16:25:40 [jo]
- zakim, drop sean_
- 16:25:40 [Zakim]
- Sean_Owen is being disconnected
- 16:25:42 [Zakim]
- -Sean_Owen
- 16:25:47 [Zakim]
- -AlanTai
- 16:25:48 [Zakim]
- MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
- 16:25:49 [Zakim]
- Attendees were DKA, francois?, achuter, Yeliz?, +1.703.265.aaaa, nacho, abel, AlanTai, Sean_Owen, Magnus, SeanP, Bryan_Sullivan, Kai_Dietrich, jo
- 16:25:57 [jo]
- present- jo
- 16:26:00 [nacho]
- nacho has left #bpwg
- 16:26:07 [jo]
- present+ jo_from_1600
- 16:27:39 [francois]
- i/Dan: Taskforce leaders not present/Topic: Mobile/Accessibility
- 16:28:53 [francois]
- i/Dan: Korean F2F just over a month away./Topic: Next F2F
- 16:29:35 [francois]
- i/Dan: Francois taking over role/Topic: Report from CT TF
- 16:29:50 [francois]
- i/Bryan: still looking for feedback./Topic: BP2
- 16:29:58 [francois]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:29:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-minutes.html francois
- 16:30:28 [francois]
- trackbot-nb, stop teleconf
- 16:30:32 [francois]
- trackbot-ng, stop teleconf
- 16:31:04 [francois]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-actions.rdf :
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Nacho will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts. [1]
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc#T15-23-16
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Marin will ask group about having it the week before the Expo starts [2]
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc#T15-23-40
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: daoust to check with organizers of the TPAC in France in October 2008 [3]
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc#T15-25-35
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: daoust to check with Dom about test cases for ISSUE-234 [4]
- 16:31:04 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-bpwg-irc#T16-21-16