IRC log of forms on 2008-01-23
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #forms
- 15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc
- 15:40:47 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 15:40:54 [Steven]
- zakim, this will be forms
- 15:40:54 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; I see HTML_Forms()10:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
- 15:41:08 [Steven]
- Meeting: Weekly FOrms WG teleconference
- 15:41:15 [John_Boyer]
- John_Boyer has joined #forms
- 15:41:31 [John_Boyer]
- zakim, code?
- 15:41:31 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), John_Boyer
- 15:41:40 [John_Boyer]
- nice
- 15:42:00 [John_Boyer]
- Steven, thanks for doing the typing
- 15:42:10 [Steven]
- :-)
- 15:42:19 [CharlieW]
- CharlieW has joined #forms
- 15:42:45 [Steven]
- s/FO/Fo/
- 15:44:00 [Zakim]
- HTML_Forms()10:45AM has now started
- 15:44:00 [John_Boyer]
- John_Boyer has joined #forms
- 15:44:02 [wellsk]
- wellsk has joined #forms
- 15:44:07 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 15:44:15 [unl]
- unl has joined #forms
- 15:44:17 [CharlieW]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:44:17 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see [IBM]
- 15:44:18 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see unl, wellsk, John_Boyer, CharlieW, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 15:44:24 [CharlieW]
- zakim, [IBM] is CharlieW
- 15:44:24 [Zakim]
- +CharlieW; got it
- 15:44:33 [Zakim]
- + +1.250.294.aaaa
- 15:44:39 [Zakim]
- +wellsk
- 15:44:44 [John_Boyer]
- zakim, I am +1.250
- 15:44:44 [Zakim]
- +John_Boyer; got it
- 15:44:46 [nick]
- nick has joined #forms
- 15:44:52 [Zakim]
- +unl
- 15:45:04 [Zakim]
- +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
- 15:45:05 [wellsk]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:45:06 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see CharlieW, John_Boyer, wellsk, unl, Nick_van_den_Bleeken
- 15:45:08 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see nick, unl, wellsk, John_Boyer, CharlieW, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 15:45:11 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 15:45:11 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 15:45:13 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 15:46:22 [klotz]
- klotz has joined #forms
- 15:46:42 [Roger]
- Roger has joined #forms
- 15:47:13 [Rafael]
- Rafael has joined #forms
- 15:47:18 [Steven]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jan/0036
- 15:47:23 [Steven]
- Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jan/0036
- 15:47:24 [John_Boyer]
- Chair: John
- 15:47:30 [John_Boyer]
- Scribe: Leigh
- 15:47:37 [John_Boyer]
- Regrets: MarkB, Erik, Nick
- 15:47:44 [nick]
- john I'm here
- 15:48:06 [Steven]
- Regrets: MarkB, Erik
- 15:48:18 [Zakim]
- +Leigh_Klotz
- 15:48:58 [Zakim]
- + +34.91.2.aabb
- 15:49:05 [Roger]
- zakim, aabb is Roger
- 15:49:06 [Zakim]
- +Roger; got it
- 15:49:16 [Roger]
- zakim, Roger has Rafael
- 15:49:16 [Zakim]
- +Rafael; got it
- 15:49:33 [Zakim]
- -Roger
- 15:50:02 [John_Boyer]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:50:02 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see CharlieW, John_Boyer, wellsk, unl, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, Leigh_Klotz
- 15:50:04 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Rafael, Roger, klotz, nick, unl, wellsk, John_Boyer, CharlieW, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 15:50:16 [nick]
- did anybody already booked a hotel for the ftf?
- 15:50:37 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 15:50:43 [Roger]
- zakim, P6 is Roger
- 15:50:43 [Zakim]
- sorry, Roger, I do not recognize a party named 'P6'
- 15:50:55 [Roger]
- zakim, ??P6 is Roger
- 15:50:55 [Zakim]
- +Roger; got it
- 15:51:47 [wellsk]
- zakim, mute wellsk
- 15:51:47 [Zakim]
- wellsk should now be muted
- 15:55:59 [wellsk]
- zakim, unmute wellsk
- 15:55:59 [Zakim]
- wellsk should no longer be muted
- 15:56:04 [nick]
- http://www.radisson.com/researchtrianglenc/
- 15:56:55 [wellsk]
- wellsk, mute me
- 15:57:03 [wellsk]
- zakim, mute wellsk
- 15:57:03 [Zakim]
- wellsk should now be muted
- 15:58:06 [jturner]
- jturner has joined #forms
- 15:59:00 [jturner]
- zakim, code
- 15:59:00 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'code', jturner
- 15:59:15 [jturner]
- zakim, code?
- 15:59:15 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jturner
- 15:59:17 [unl]
- unl has joined #forms
- 16:01:39 [John_Boyer]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jan/0010.html
- 16:04:25 [Zakim]
- +??P24
- 16:04:41 [jturner]
- zakim, ??P24 is me
- 16:04:41 [Zakim]
- +jturner; got it
- 16:05:05 [unl]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:05:05 [Zakim]
- unl should now be muted
- 16:05:14 [jturner]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:05:14 [Zakim]
- jturner should now be muted
- 16:06:52 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Nested_models_for_convenient_grouping_and_composition
- 16:07:37 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Externally_defined_models_with_src_attribute
- 16:12:47 [nick]
- I can do that
- 16:12:49 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level
- 16:13:22 [unl]
- i don't like this idea at all ...
- 16:13:34 [unl]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:13:34 [Zakim]
- unl should no longer be muted
- 16:13:41 [nick]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level
- 16:14:18 [nick]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:14:18 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken was not muted, nick
- 16:19:04 [Steven-eee]
- Steven-eee has joined #forms
- 16:22:04 [Schnitz]
- Schnitz has joined #forms
- 16:22:11 [Schnitz]
- zakim, code?
- 16:22:11 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Schnitz
- 16:23:06 [Zakim]
- +??P25
- 16:23:14 [Schnitz]
- zakim, ??p25 is me
- 16:23:14 [Zakim]
- +Schnitz; got it
- 16:23:19 [Schnitz]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:23:19 [Zakim]
- Schnitz should now be muted
- 16:24:19 [Steven]
- q+
- 16:24:57 [John_Boyer]
- ack Steven
- 16:26:24 [klotz]
- "This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man. "
- 16:27:27 [CharlieW]
- Amen
- 16:30:24 [klotz]
- +1
- 16:31:14 [unl]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:31:14 [Zakim]
- unl should now be muted
- 16:32:15 [Roger]
- Roger has joined #forms
- 16:35:31 [Schnitz]
- I prefer dogs over cats, too
- 16:35:51 [Schnitz]
- I'm a cat too much of myself already...
- 16:38:03 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Unified_evaluation_context
- 16:39:14 [John_Boyer]
- <input name="result" calculate="a + b"> ...
- 16:39:21 [John_Boyer]
- not
- 16:39:33 [John_Boyer]
- <input name="result" calculate="../a + ../b"> ...
- 16:40:47 [John_Boyer]
- The first is much easier to write
- 16:41:38 [John_Boyer]
- <data> <a/> <b/> <result/> <a/> <b/> <result/> </data>
- 16:43:11 [John_Boyer]
- <bind nodeset="result"> <bind context=".." calculate="a + b"/> </bind>
- 16:43:13 [CharlieW]
- * back in 5
- 16:45:07 [John_Boyer]
- <bind nodeset="result"> <calculate context=".." value="a+b"/> </bind>
- 16:46:02 [wellsk]
- wouldn't this also help in cross model use cases?
- 16:46:24 [John_Boyer]
- come back Steven!
- 16:46:26 [klotz]
- Charlie said "back in 5" and we heard a click.
- 16:46:34 [wellsk]
- me too
- 16:46:46 [John_Boyer]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:46:46 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see CharlieW, John_Boyer, wellsk (muted), unl (muted), Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, Leigh_Klotz, Roger, jturner (muted), Schnitz (muted)
- 16:46:49 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Roger, Schnitz, Steven-eee, unl, jturner, Rafael, klotz, nick, wellsk, John_Boyer, CharlieW, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 16:46:49 [Roger]
- we can hear John too
- 16:47:19 [nick]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:47:19 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
- 16:48:02 [CharlieW]
- * is back
- 16:49:22 [unl]
- why?
- 16:49:34 [wellsk]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:49:34 [Zakim]
- wellsk should no longer be muted
- 16:53:43 [nick]
- but if you can use the instance() function in the context you can use it also directly in the calculate
- 16:54:07 [nick]
- (with 'the' I mean the one that goes cross model)
- 16:54:22 [John_Boyer]
- <model id="outer"> <model id="inner"> <instance id="X"> ... </model> <bind nodeset="result"> <calculate context="instance('X')" value="a+b"/>
- 16:55:46 [nick]
- is equal to <bind nodeset="result" calculate="instance('X')/a + instance('X')/b" />
- 16:55:53 [John_Boyer]
- Turn that inside out.
- 16:57:12 [John_Boyer]
- yes, Nick, except the outer model author will have an easier time with the context attr
- 16:57:46 [Roger]
- Roger has joined #forms
- 16:58:35 [nick]
- but isn't charlie going to write something now?
- 16:58:49 [nick]
- You can put on my list
- 16:58:55 [nick]
- it
- 16:58:56 [nick]
- ok
- 16:59:14 [unl]
- yes
- 16:59:17 [Schnitz]
- yup
- 16:59:18 [jturner]
- yes
- 16:59:22 [wellsk]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:59:22 [Zakim]
- wellsk should now be muted
- 16:59:25 [John_Boyer]
- something's wrong with your connection only
- 16:59:29 [Steven]
- ok
- 16:59:34 [Steven]
- zakim, drop me
- 16:59:34 [Zakim]
- Steven is being disconnected
- 16:59:35 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 16:59:53 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 16:59:54 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 16:59:55 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 17:00:03 [nick]
- I can do it
- 17:00:36 [John_Boyer]
- Default values on controls
- 17:00:46 [klotz]
- ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken to take on general topic of http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Unified_evaluation_context but with changes as necessary.
- 17:00:47 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-447 - Van den Bleeken to take on general topic of http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Unified_evaluation_context but with changes as necessary. [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2008-01-30].
- 17:00:54 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_support_for_default_values_without_the_need_of_an_instance_element
- 17:01:42 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level
- 17:01:50 [klotz]
- ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken on strawman proposal writing for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level
- 17:01:50 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-448 - Van den Bleeken on strawman proposal writing for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2008-01-30].
- 17:02:30 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Nested_models_for_convenient_grouping_and_composition
- 17:03:01 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Externally_defined_models_with_src_attribute
- 17:03:25 [klotz]
- ACTION: Charlie Wiecha and Mark Birbeck to write strawman for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Nested_models_for_convenient_grouping_and_composition
- 17:03:25 [trackbot-ng]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - Charlie
- 17:03:39 [nick]
- hmmm, missed that
- 17:03:55 [nick]
- do you have a link?
- 17:04:41 [John_Boyer]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jan/0011.html
- 17:04:45 [nick]
- thanks
- 17:06:03 [John_Boyer]
- Default values on controls
- 17:06:10 [John_Boyer]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_support_for_default_values_without_the_need_of_an_instance_element
- 17:07:24 [nick]
- default-value ;)
- 17:08:26 [nick]
- that is esay I guess, just create the implicit instance and serialize it
- 17:08:45 [nick]
- also serializing non-relevant nodes
- 17:09:16 [Schnitz]
- yup
- 17:09:28 [Schnitz]
- default
- 17:10:22 [nick]
- don't like value, because it isn't the real value, but the initial value
- 17:10:34 [Steven]
- initial=
- 17:10:46 [Schnitz]
- initial is cool too
- 17:11:03 [Schnitz]
- ?
- 17:11:06 [nick]
- zakim, unmute me
- 17:11:06 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted
- 17:11:14 [Schnitz]
- right
- 17:11:28 [Schnitz]
- Raggett would have cool it
- 17:11:30 [Schnitz]
- StartWith
- 17:11:40 [Schnitz]
- s/cool/called
- 17:12:03 [Schnitz]
- or BeginWith
- 17:12:21 [Schnitz]
- or show
- 17:12:53 [Schnitz]
- or even better! Intent-based "propose=
- 17:13:02 [Schnitz]
- "propose to the user"...
- 17:13:12 [Schnitz]
- == default value
- 17:13:16 [Schnitz]
- anyways
- 17:13:58 [Roger]
- implicit
- 17:14:37 [Steven]
- The value of calling it value is that it is valuable to specify that the initial value is the value of vlaue
- 17:14:45 [Schnitz]
- LOL
- 17:14:57 [Schnitz]
- Steven, R U serious?
- 17:15:14 [Schnitz]
- ;-)
- 17:15:34 [Schnitz]
- default
- 17:15:38 [Schnitz]
- default:value
- 17:15:39 [unl]
- i'd prefer 'initial', because it makes it more clear
- 17:15:41 [Schnitz]
- :-
- 17:15:41 [Schnitz]
- )
- 17:15:53 [nick]
- zakim mute me
- 17:15:54 [Schnitz]
- unl, very german
- 17:16:06 [unl]
- sorry
- 17:16:07 [Schnitz]
- I like "propose" (to the user)
- 17:16:19 [Schnitz]
- unl, no prob :-) kiddin'
- 17:16:34 [Schnitz]
- propose would be so Raggett HTML style
- 17:16:46 [Schnitz]
- like "needed" instead of required
- 17:16:54 [unl]
- :-o
- 17:17:28 [Schnitz]
- bye!
- 17:17:28 [jturner]
- thx bye
- 17:17:29 [unl]
- bye
- 17:17:30 [Zakim]
- -Leigh_Klotz
- 17:17:31 [Zakim]
- -wellsk
- 17:17:32 [Zakim]
- -Roger
- 17:17:34 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 17:17:34 [jturner]
- bye
- 17:17:35 [Zakim]
- -CharlieW
- 17:17:36 [Zakim]
- -John_Boyer
- 17:17:37 [Zakim]
- -unl
- 17:17:42 [wellsk]
- wellsk has left #forms
- 17:17:44 [Zakim]
- -jturner
- 17:17:46 [Zakim]
- -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
- 17:17:56 [John_Boyer]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:17:56 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Schnitz
- 17:17:57 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Roger, Schnitz, Steven-eee, unl, klotz, nick, John_Boyer, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 17:18:04 [John_Boyer]
- zakim, drop Schnitz
- 17:18:04 [Zakim]
- Schnitz is being disconnected
- 17:18:06 [Zakim]
- HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
- 17:18:07 [Zakim]
- Attendees were CharlieW, +1.250.294.aaaa, wellsk, John_Boyer, unl, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, Leigh_Klotz, +34.91.2.aabb, Rafael, Roger, jturner, Schnitz
- 17:18:14 [John_Boyer]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:18:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
- 17:18:22 [John_Boyer]
- rrsagent, bye
- 17:18:22 [RRSAgent]
- I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-actions.rdf :
- 17:18:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken to take on general topic of http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Unified_evaluation_context but with changes as necessary. [1]
- 17:18:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc#T17-00-46
- 17:18:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken on strawman proposal writing for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level [2]
- 17:18:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc#T17-01-50
- 17:18:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Charlie Wiecha and Mark Birbeck to write strawman for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Nested_models_for_convenient_grouping_and_composition [3]
- 17:18:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc#T17-03-25
- 17:20:43 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #forms
- 17:20:43 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc
- 17:43:25 [John_Boyer]
- John_Boyer has left #forms
- 18:02:42 [nick]
- nick has joined #forms
- 18:31:56 [CharlieW]
- CharlieW has joined #forms
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- CharlieW has left #forms
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- nick has left #forms
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- Zakim has left #forms