IRC log of xmlsec on 2008-01-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:03:29 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-xmlsec-irc

13:03:31 [trackbot-ng]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:03:31 [Zakim]

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Zakim, this will be XMLSEC

13:03:33 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot-ng; I see T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM scheduled to start in 57 minutes

13:03:34 [trackbot-ng]

Meeting: XML Security Specifications Maintenance Working Group Teleconference

13:03:34 [trackbot-ng]

Date: 22 January 2008

13:04:16 [tlr]

Chair: tlr

13:45:13 [tlr]

Regrets: Frederick, Sean, Juan Carlos, Rob

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Scribe: Hal

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tlr has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Jan/0035.html

13:52:00 [tlr]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Jan/0035.html

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13:59:08 [Zakim]

T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has now started

13:59:13 [tlr]

zakim, call thomas-781

13:59:13 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; the call is being made

13:59:15 [Zakim]

+ +1.512.401.aaaa

13:59:33 [tlr]

zakim, call thomas-781

13:59:33 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; the call is being made

13:59:34 [Zakim]

+Thomas

13:59:51 [tlr]

zakim, aaaa is brich

13:59:52 [Zakim]

+brich; got it

14:00:19 [Zakim]

+Hal_Lockhart

14:00:29 [tlr]

zakim, mute thomas

14:00:29 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

14:00:33 [tlr]

noise still there, I think

14:00:36 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

14:00:36 [Zakim]

sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

14:00:40 [tlr]

zakim, I am thomas

14:00:41 [Zakim]

ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas

14:00:42 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

14:00:42 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

14:00:42 [hal]

hal has joined #xmlsec

14:00:48 [tlr]

ScribeNick: hal

14:01:01 [brich]

zakim, mute me

14:01:01 [Zakim]

brich should now be muted

14:01:02 [Zakim]

+ +1.978.244.aabb

14:01:17 [tlr]

zakim, aabb is JohnWray

14:01:17 [Zakim]

+JohnWray; got it

14:01:54 [Zakim]

+ +1.650.506.aacc

14:02:06 [tlr]

zakim, aacc is pdatta

14:02:06 [Zakim]

+pdatta; got it

14:02:22 [tlr]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:02:22 [Zakim]

On the phone I see brich (muted), Thomas, Hal_Lockhart, JohnWray, pdatta

14:02:25 [Zakim]

+Ed_Simon

14:02:56 [tlr]

topic: convene

14:04:06 [tlr]

Next meeting: 29 January, John Wray to scribe

14:04:28 [EdSimon]

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14:04:45 [tlr]

tlr: hal, news on WAF?

14:05:01 [tlr]

hal: dubious process in their charter in opinion of a number of us, so focused on that point

14:05:05 [brich]

zakim, unmute me

14:05:05 [Zakim]

brich should no longer be muted

14:05:16 [PHB2]

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zakim, code?

14:05:39 [Zakim]

the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), PHB2

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14:06:36 [tlr]

tlr: they might move quickly, recommend reviewing soon

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14:07:02 [hal]

topic: workshop notice

14:07:26 [tlr]

hal: agenda for day is 1/2 page, not very mysterious

14:07:29 [Zakim]

+ +1.781.306.aadd

14:07:41 [tlr]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Jan/0033.html

14:07:58 [tlr]

hal: they'll convene plenary, come to consensus what problems researchers should work on

14:08:03 [tlr]

... planning to attend security section ...

14:08:58 [tlr]

zakim, aadd is phb2

14:08:58 [Zakim]

+phb2; got it

14:09:02 [tlr]

topic: minutes approval

14:09:10 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2008/01/15-xmlsec-minutes.html

14:09:11 [hal]

hal: there will be 4 breakouts - I plan to attend the security section

14:09:25 [EdSimon]

Back in 5 minutes...

14:09:30 [tlr]

RESOLUTION: minutes accepted as true record

14:09:39 [tlr]

Topic: charter proposal

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http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/wiki/charter

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14:10:04 [Zakim]

+ +1.408.907.aaee

14:10:13 [tlr]

zakim, aaee is shivaram

14:10:14 [Zakim]

+shivaram; got it

14:10:35 [shivaram]

zakim, mute shivaram

14:10:35 [Zakim]

shivaram should now be muted

14:10:48 [Zakim]

+??P19

14:10:55 [tlr]

zakim, ??P19 is klanz2

14:10:55 [Zakim]

+klanz2; got it

14:12:36 [tlr]

hal: would like to see deployment as superset of implementation

14:12:44 [tlr]

brich: it's not entirely performance of implementation

14:13:16 [tlr]

... point is that the architecture should enable efficient implementation ...

14:14:01 [tlr]

hal: not sure the wording change says that, but liked what bruce just said

14:15:24 [brich]

tony's point was that we need to ensure that efficient implementations can be done, in that the architecture and design encourage efficient implementation

14:15:28 [klanz2]

also solution space: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eastlake-xmldsig-uri-00#section-2.4.1

14:15:38 [klanz2]

Minimal Canonicalization

14:16:51 [hal]

In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to performance and efficiency for various deployments.

14:17:52 [tlr]

In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to the performance and memory efficiency of implementations.

14:18:32 [klanz2]

q+

14:18:41 [hal]

In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working

14:18:43 [hal]

Group's attention is in particular called to the performance and

14:18:44 [hal]

memory efficiency of implementations.

14:18:53 [klanz2]

what is our influence on deployments?

14:19:20 [shivaram]

deployment can only be a guideline just like architecture

14:19:45 [tlr]

q?

14:19:51 [klanz2]

that's best practices isn't it?

14:19:58 [tlr]

ack klanz2

14:19:59 [shivaram]

yes

14:20:55 [klanz2]

q+

14:21:54 [klanz2]

new compulsory algorithms and defaults for canonicalization

14:22:06 [klanz2]

are consindered

14:22:28 [klanz2]

s/consindered/considered/

14:22:56 [tlr]

ack klanz2

14:22:58 [shivaram]

then qualifying "reasonable implementation" needs to be addressed

14:23:17 [tlr]

Specify one or more canonicalization algorithms to address the requirements agreed. At least one such algorithm should be suitable to replace Canonical XML 1.1 as a mandatory to implement canonicalization method.

14:24:35 [tlr]

In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to performance and efficiency of implementations of the XML security specifications suite, as manifested in various deployments.

14:25:09 [tlr]

hal: guess this might meet concern

14:25:34 [tlr]

brich: speaking of implementation, not efficiency of deployment

14:26:03 [hal]

tlr: hard to understand distinction being made

14:26:27 [klanz2]

In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to performance and efficiency as reported by implementations and deployments.

14:26:44 [hal]

not sure Tony's proposed wording addresses his stated concern

14:27:58 [shivaram]

agree with Ed's statement just now on the phone

14:28:04 [hal]

brirch: not this groups job to examine existing implementations

14:28:26 [shivaram]

zakim unmute me

14:28:35 [shivaram]

zakim, unmute me

14:28:35 [Zakim]

shivaram should no longer be muted

14:28:38 [shivaram]

+q

14:28:45 [tlr]

s/Ed's/Bruce's/

14:28:57 [klanz2]

ack klanz2

14:28:58 [tlr]

ack klanz2

14:29:00 [tlr]

shivaram, you were agreeing with bruce

14:29:04 [tlr]

q- klanz

14:29:23 [hal]

klanz2: agree word deployment doesn't add much

14:29:48 [tlr]

ack shivaram

14:29:50 [tlr]

q+ hal

14:30:26 [hal]

shivaram: should not preclude efficiency of implementations

14:30:36 [hal]

... can not rtalk about deployments per se

14:30:59 [tlr]

ack hal

14:31:08 [shivaram]

zakim, mute me

14:31:08 [Zakim]

shivaram should now be muted

14:31:36 [shivaram]

The Specification should not preclude efficient implementation.

14:31:54 [tlr]

hal: make it clear that we're specifying algorithms, they will be designed to be implemented efficiently, but we're not going to spend time optimizing current implementations

14:32:18 [klanz2]

+1

14:32:27 [tlr]

brich: In considering ..., WG's attention is in particular called to algorithmic performance and efficiency.

14:32:48 [tlr]

hal: ability of algos to be implemented with good performance and memory footprint

14:33:04 [shivaram]

We have no way to understand what kinds of deployment will exist tomorrow. So, including deployment in the same sentence as perofrmance may be problematic

14:33:41 [klanz2]

In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to algorithmic and interoperable performance and efficiency potentially leading to refactored or new "MUST Implement Algorithms ". ... I don't know

14:33:41 [hal]

tlr: will go to team for polishing, I am leader

14:33:58 [hal]

... is brich proposal sufficient for consensus?

14:34:00 [klanz2]

forget the last

14:35:07 [hal]

tlr: propose taking bruce's words - then polish wording

14:35:45 [klanz2]

ok

14:36:28 [tlr]

In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular alled to algorithmic performance and efficiency.

14:36:45 [klanz2]

s/alled/called/

14:36:53 [hal]

+1

14:36:58 [brich]

+1

14:37:07 [tlr]

PROPOSED: replace current "deployment" text with above

14:37:09 [hal]

general agreement

14:37:17 [tlr]

RESOLUTION: replace current "deployment" text with above

14:37:42 [tlr]

PROPOSED: forward current status of wiki charter to Team for further processing, thereby discharging chartered deliverable

14:37:58 [tlr]

RESOLUTION: forward current status of wiki charter to Team for further processing, thereby discharging chartered deliverable

14:38:22 [hal]

tlr: will get charter in shape for AC review

14:38:27 [tlr]

topic: C14N11 Implementation report and Test Case document

14:39:00 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmldsig/c14n11/report.html

14:40:06 [hal]

tlr: C14N 1.1 should be published by Jan 29

14:40:19 [tlr]

Proposed Rec

14:40:37 [tlr]

topic: XML Signature implementation report

14:41:00 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmldsig/report.html

14:41:57 [hal]

tlr: ibm listed as failed due to mechanical problem - not real problem

14:42:29 [hal]

... any other test cases that should be added?

14:42:31 [tlr]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Jan/0034.html

14:43:27 [klanz2]

diffRFC

14:43:28 [tlr]

diffRFC-* test cases?

14:43:52 [brich]

-1

14:43:54 [hal]

... there is a question about diffRFC-* test cases - should they be included?

14:44:00 [klanz2]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases-DistinguishedName

14:44:25 [klanz2]

q+

14:44:28 [tlr]

ack klanz2

14:44:57 [klanz2]

q-

14:45:23 [tlr]

RESOLUTION: diffRFC test cases not included in implementation report

14:45:58 [klanz2]

q+

14:46:05 [tlr]

defCan-2, defCan-3

14:46:06 [tlr]

ack klanz

14:46:06 [hal]

tlr: defCan2 & defCan3 should they be included?

14:46:13 [tlr]

ack klanz2

14:46:41 [hal]

klanz2: should mention that there have been changes, although it is optional

14:46:57 [hal]

.. that it has been tested, but results are not being published

14:47:05 [tlr]

zakim, who is making noise?

14:47:18 [Zakim]

tlr, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: JohnWray (4%)

14:48:20 [hal]

brich: agree with konrad

14:48:36 [tlr]

PROPOSED: defCan2, defCan3 optional, tested, detailed results not published

14:48:55 [klanz2]

q+

14:49:05 [tlr]

ack brich

14:49:22 [hal]

klanz2: my proposal was just to mention them and say some impl tested them

14:50:07 [hal]

tlr: don't remember how many could do these

14:50:24 [pdatta]

q+

14:50:30 [tlr]

q- klanz

14:50:41 [tlr]

ack pdatta

14:50:57 [tlr]

pdatta: don't have templating mechanism, so no defCan tests

14:51:09 [hal]

klanz2: don't want to force anyone to reveal

14:51:34 [hal]

tlr: propose we leave it open and look at actual results

14:51:51 [hal]

... general direction is not to provide detail on these

14:51:55 [brich]

+1

14:52:03 [tlr]

ACTION: thomas to propose useful language for defCan tests, no detailed results

14:52:03 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-140 - Propose useful language for defCan tests, no detailed results [on Thomas Roessler - due 2008-01-29].

14:52:09 [tlr]

no resolution on this point

14:52:10 [klanz2]

I think the statement should be that some had a look at it, but we do not say who

14:53:00 [hal]

tlr: any other test cases that should be there?

14:53:07 [hal]

no response

14:53:26 [hal]

tlr: prteey much done with inventory of test cases

14:53:35 [tlr]

topic: best practices

14:53:41 [hal]

s/prteey/pretty/

14:53:48 [tlr]

tlr: any news?

14:53:48 [tlr]

n

14:53:53 [hal]

anything new?

14:53:58 [hal]

no

14:54:04 [tlr]

topic: action item review

14:54:17 [tlr]

trackbot-ng, close ACTION-74

14:54:17 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-74 Update Acknowledgements section in XML SIgnature 2nd edition closed

14:54:25 [tlr]

trackbot-ng, close ACTION-130

14:54:25 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-130 Remove unused DName cases from the doc closed

14:54:34 [tlr]

zakim, close ACTION-139

14:54:34 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'close ACTION-139', tlr

14:54:43 [tlr]

trackbot-ng, close ACTION-139

14:54:43 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-139 Fix acknowledgements section closed

14:55:18 [tlr]

trackbot-ng, close ACTION-134

14:55:19 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-134 Confirm whether implementation report for c14n11 can be made public closed

14:55:32 [tlr]

trackbot-ng, close ACTION-135

14:55:32 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-135 Confirm whether implementation report for c14n11 can be made public closed

14:55:36 [klanz2]

yes

14:55:44 [tlr]

trackbot-ng, close ACTION-136

14:55:45 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-136 Confirm whether implementation report for c14n11 can be made public closed

14:55:53 [tlr]

trackbot-ng, close ACTION-137

14:55:53 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-137 Confirm whether implementation report for c14n11 can be made public closed

14:56:11 [tlr]

trackbot-ng, close ACTION-138

14:56:11 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-138 Send inventory for signature implementation report closed

14:56:35 [tlr]

topic: aob

14:56:43 [klanz2]

q+

14:56:46 [tlr]

ack klanz

14:57:24 [hal]

klanz: there is an interop event to be held in March - posted to list

14:57:41 [klanz2]

http://www.etsi.org/plugtests/XAdES/XAdES.htm

14:58:04 [klanz2]

Registration Deadline is 15 Feb. 2008 ...

14:58:18 [Zakim]

-pdatta

14:58:21 [tlr]

zakim, list participants

14:58:21 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been +1.512.401.aaaa, Thomas, brich, Hal_Lockhart, +1.978.244.aabb, JohnWray, +1.650.506.aacc, pdatta, Ed_Simon, +1.781.306.aadd, phb2,

14:58:25 [Zakim]

... +1.408.907.aaee, shivaram, klanz2

14:58:26 [Zakim]

-brich

14:58:26 [tlr]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

14:58:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-xmlsec-minutes.html tlr

14:58:28 [Zakim]

-Hal_Lockhart

14:58:30 [Zakim]

-shivaram

14:58:31 [Zakim]

-Ed_Simon

14:58:32 [Zakim]

-phb2

14:58:34 [Zakim]

-JohnWray

14:58:36 [tlr]

rrssagent, make record member

14:58:45 [Zakim]

-klanz2

14:58:48 [Zakim]

-Thomas

14:58:50 [Zakim]

T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has ended

14:58:52 [Zakim]

Attendees were +1.512.401.aaaa, Thomas, brich, Hal_Lockhart, +1.978.244.aabb, JohnWray, +1.650.506.aacc, pdatta, Ed_Simon, +1.781.306.aadd, phb2, +1.408.907.aaee, shivaram, klanz2

15:42:42 [PHB2]

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