15:55:20 RRSAgent has joined #swd 15:55:20 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc 15:55:25 rrsagent, please make record public 15:56:22 Zakim has joined #swd 15:56:38 zakim, this will be swd 15:56:38 ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started 15:56:43 Meeting: SWD WG 15:56:46 Chair: Tom 15:57:06 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0143.html 15:57:26 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/01/15-swd-minutes.html 15:57:29 Quentin has joined #swd 15:57:50 Regrets: Sean, Michael, Margherita, Simone 15:58:06 zakim, who is on the call? 15:58:06 On the phone I see ??P6 15:58:13 zakim, ??P6 is TomB 15:58:13 +TomB; got it 15:58:29 aliman has joined #swd 15:58:33 zakim, please list attendees 15:58:33 As of this point the attendees have been TomB 15:58:35 + +2242aaaa 15:58:49 zakim, 2242aaaa is Quentin 15:58:49 sorry, TomB, I do not recognize a party named '2242aaaa' 15:58:57 zakim, aaaa is Quentin 15:58:58 +Quentin; got it 15:59:14 vit has joined #swd 15:59:23 +Ralph 16:00:36 Antoine has joined #swd 16:00:53 JonP has joined #swd 16:02:09 +Antoine_Isaac 16:02:20 +??P31 16:02:29 zakim, ??P31 is aliman 16:02:29 +aliman; got it 16:03:10 dlrubin has joined #swd 16:03:27 +??P35 16:04:10 +??P38 16:04:12 zakim, ??P35 is Ben 16:04:12 +Ben; got it 16:04:28 zakim, ??p38 is DLRubin 16:04:29 +DLRubin; got it 16:04:42 +??P40 16:04:48 zakim, ??p40 is Vit 16:04:56 +Vit; got it 16:05:00 +??P12 16:05:03 zakim, ??PP12 is Guus 16:05:16 sorry, TomB, I do not recognize a party named '??PP12' 16:05:16 zakim, ??P12 is Guus 16:05:24 +Guus; got it 16:05:56 Guus has joined #swd 16:05:57 berrueta has joined #swd 16:06:10 benadida has joined #SWD 16:06:33 zakim, nick benadida is Ben 16:06:33 ok, Ralph, I now associate benadida with Ben 16:06:46 scribe: benadida 16:06:51 scribenick: benadida 16:07:04 +abel 16:07:12 Zakim, abel is me 16:07:12 Tom: propose that we accept minutes from 15 Jan telecon 16:07:14 +berrueta; got it 16:07:29 RESOLVED, minutes accepted 16:07:46 Topic: SKOS 16:07:47 +Jon_Phipps 16:07:54 --> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#SKOS 16:08:24 zakim, Jon_Phipps is me 16:08:24 +JonP; got it 16:08:30 Tom: can we take a decision to publish on this call? 16:08:41 Ralph: if reviewers are happy, don't mind. 16:08:44 Guus: me neither 16:09:05 Alistair: we addressed all comments in reviews, all sensible 16:09:33 ... last week agreed to propose a resolution on ISSUE-44 16:09:33 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0148.html "PROPOSED: To publish the SKOS Reference Editors' Draft 18 January 2008" [Alistair 2008-01-22] 16:09:46 ... new draft incorporates this proposal 16:09:51 Guus: still need to agree to this. 16:09:57 Clay has joined #swd 16:10:03 Alistair: Quentin's comment no longer applies 16:10:06 +[LC] 16:10:16 zakim, LC is Clay 16:10:16 +Clay; got it 16:10:17 ... exactmatch property, transitive? 16:10:32 ... added a number of new issue to tracker, fine-grained, corresponds to decision points 16:10:52 Alistair: added a bunch of editorial notes to -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20080118#L1309 Section 10 16:11:06 ... Vit's review: comment on introduction, "what is skos?" 16:11:10 ed has joined #swd 16:11:40 ... new appendices D, E and F for discussions 16:11:44 +[LC] 16:11:52 Zakim: LC is me 16:12:07 ... a number of points re: section 7, now issues in the tracker 16:12:15 ... comments on section titles, some have been renamed 16:12:30 Zakim, LC is me 16:12:30 +ed; got it 16:12:48 Alistair: ISSUE-36, some text proposed to resolve that issue. 16:13:10 ... most of that text pushed to appendix E 16:13:29 ... using name of concept scheme as name of RDF graph, then used to query 16:13:51 ... Tom raised point that label relations confusingly named, ed note + issue. 16:14:04 ... Tom also raised comment about statement of formal definitions, worth discussing. 16:14:38 [scribe lost track of some the discussion] 16:15:10 Alistair: a number of hooks for input and links to issues in tracker. 16:15:43 Tom: resolution to ISSUE-44 on critical path to WD? 16:15:55 Alistair: could publish with issue open, or do we have to resolve it? 16:15:58 Tom: on agenda 16:16:12 ... are you proposing that it be published as WD? 16:16:14 Alistair: yes. 16:16:28 Tom: should we discuss ISSUE-44 beforehand? 16:16:47 Ralph: prefer to make decision on WD independent of ISSUE-44 16:16:59 Alistair: plenty in draft that relates to open issues 16:17:03 ... could add an additional ed. note. 16:17:09 Ralph: I'd like to see that. 16:17:16 ACTION: Alistair to add editorial note linking ISSUE-44 16:17:34 Tom: PROPOSAL publish SKOS as WD. 16:17:47 Ralph: second. 16:17:57 ... I see a 7.6.6 reference to ISSUE-44, might be enough. 16:18:13 [DONE] ACTION: Alistair to add editorial note linking ISSUE-44 16:18:33 Alistair: yes it's good enough. 16:18:46 Tom: anyone against publishing as WD? 16:19:03 [no objections] 16:19:49 Ralph: abstentions? 16:19:51 [none] 16:19:57 RESOLVED: SKOS published as WD 16:20:13 Ralph: there will be a W3C homepage blurb 16:20:42 ACTION: Ralph get SKOS WD published 16:21:35 Alistair: will publish a revision of editors' draft. 16:22:00 Ralph: please put real refs in for @@X's 16:22:03 Alistair: ok, will do 16:22:10 [DONE] ACTION: Alistair send an email to the list by the end of next week that the reviewers can agree with and then propose publishing as WD by Jan 22 16:22:24 ACTION: Guus to schedule to discussion on the notation (syntax) used in SKOS examples in Reference and Primer in two weeks time, i.e. on 29 January 16:22:26 -- continues 16:22:47 ACTION: Alistair and Guus write draft section in primer on relationship between SKOS concepts and OWL classes for OWL DL users 16:22:48 -- continues 16:22:59 ACTION: Margherita to review the SKOS primer 16:23:02 -- done 16:23:26 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0150.html Margherita's review of SKOS Primer 16:23:33 Tom: when should we take a decision to publish SKOS primer? 16:24:09 Antoine: hope to send mail in coming days on this topic 16:24:17 Ed: been out of touch for 3 days, catching up ASAP. 16:24:57 Ralph: not sure we can take a decision today 16:24:59 Tom: agreed. 16:25:51 ACTION: Antoine to track the resolutions to ISSUE 36 16:26:19 --done 16:26:20 Antoine: seems like we can aim to resolve this issue 16:27:04 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0136.html Re: [SKOS] About Closing ISSUE-36 ConceptSchemeContainment [Antoine 2008-01-19] 16:27:19 Tom: some confusion about exact text for agreement. It would help to put the text into meeting record. 16:28:06 [discussion about the text] 16:28:28 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0093.html Antoine's proposed resolution to ISSUE-36 16:29:05 Ralph: resolve to close ISSUE-36? 16:29:40 Tom: PROPOSE http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0093.html as resolution to ISSUE-36 16:29:59 Alistair: +1, though the wording is slightly different from what Antoine put together 16:30:09 Antoine: we can live with that. 16:30:12 Alistair: yes. 16:30:31 Tom: RESOLVED http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0093.html as resolution to ISSUE-36 16:30:44 RESOLVED http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0093.html as resolution to ISSUE-36 16:31:13 Tom: ISSUE-44: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0052.html 16:31:29 Guus: broad consensus about resolution I sent. 16:31:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html Ralph 16:31:49 ... would we make revised naming for broader and narrower a part of this resolution 16:32:01 Antoine: not at all asking for that. 16:32:24 ... I've raised the issue, but I support a resolution to ISSUE-44 without considering this naming convention stuff. 16:32:35 Guus: then I propose to resolve the issue. 16:33:10 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0090.html 16:33:19 Issue 44 16:33:37 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/44 Issue 44 16:34:07 [question missed by Scribe] 16:34:17 Guus: applications shouldn't treat broaderNarrower as transitive 16:34:31 ... but broadertranstiive narrowertransitive should 16:34:47 s/tiive/itive/ 16:35:02 ... if that becomes common practice, we may accommodate that in the standard. 16:35:50 Tom: PROPOSE that we accept http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0090.html as resolution to ISSUE-44 16:36:11 Ralph: Sean owns the issue, and supports the resolution. 16:36:27 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0097.html Sean's support for this resolution 16:36:35 Tom: any objections? 16:36:38 [none] 16:36:48 RESOLVED, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jan/0090.html as resolution to ISSUE-44 16:38:04 Alistair: ISSUE-44, originally covered transtivity of skosbroader, but also reflexivity, so all other stuff in ISSUE-44 has been moved to other issues. We can deal with remaining issues separately. 16:39:22 Tom: what about issues 68,69,70. 16:39:33 Alistair: could put them on agenda and talk about them, wait for feedback. 16:40:01 ACTION: Alistair to propose an approach to clarify which aspects of the extension module should be in scope for the candidate recommendation package. 16:40:03 --continues 16:40:08 ACTION: Alistair and Guus to prepare material for next week on Concept Schemes vs OWL Ontologies 16:40:10 --continues 16:40:18 ACTION: Guus to write up the issue [of Label Resource] and add to the issue list. [recorded in 16:40:18 http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action01] 16:40:19 --continues 16:41:09 ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of rdfs isDefinedBy fits the reasoning that was made in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0141.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10] 16:41:30 -- continues 16:41:53 Tom: new SKOS issues 16:42:05 ... propose that we postpone until future telecon 16:42:15 scribenick: ralph 16:42:21 Topic: RDFa 16:42:33 Ben: Mark and I have been discussing some final details 16:42:49 ... I expect to work on the Syntax draft later today 16:42:59 ... Mark and I have some differences of opinion 16:43:14 ACTION: Ben and Michael to address comments by Tom [regarding maintenance of wiki document http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa] recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05] 16:43:16 -- continues 16:43:21 ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in 16:43:21 http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03] 16:43:26 -- continues (in progress) 16:43:32 ACTION: Ben to distribute RDFa syntax draft to reviewers by Monday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-swd-minutes.html#action10] 16:43:34 -- continues 16:43:42 ACTION: Diego to review RDFa syntax document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action12] 16:43:43 -- continues 16:43:49 ACTION: Ed to review RDFa syntax document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action13] 16:43:50 -- continues 16:43:55 ACTION: Ben to prepare the email to request the decision for publishing on Feb 5th [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/15-swd-minutes.html#action18] 16:43:58 -- continues 16:44:07 Tom: should we change the date? 16:44:24 Ben: let's wait to pick a date until there's actually a draft in the hands of the reviewers 16:44:48 Tom: do you want to elaborate on the nature of the open issues? 16:45:03 Ben: these are edge cases but they seem to be important to resolve in order to phrase the model correctly 16:45:08 ... they have to do with "chaining" 16:45:28 ... e.g. "I know a Person who knows a Person named Ben who knows a person named Ralph" 16:45:53 ... there are different opinions on whether @href completes triples that might appear higher up in the parse tree 16:46:08 ... these are fairly advanced uses of RDFa and won't affect initial users 16:46:14 ... this issue has some sub-issues 16:46:21 ... how to handle @rel='next' 16:46:39 ... it's critical to some consumers that the existing keywords be supported 16:46:48 ... details of how to do this need to be finalized 16:47:13 ... Mark is holding us to high standards of perfection for the document 16:47:26 scribenick: benadida 16:47:38 Topic: Recipes 16:47:47 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] 16:47:50 --continues 16:48:01 Ralph: decided not to change anything in current editor's draft 16:48:21 Diego: want to study the issue a bit more. 16:48:29 ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in 16:48:29 http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action03] 16:48:38 --continues 16:48:41 Ralph: +2 months 16:48:54 ... not going to make progress until w3c systems folks have finished bringing a DB in house. 16:48:58 ... on hold. 16:49:06 ACTION: Jon and Diego to propose a decision on publishing the next Recipes draft by next week, i.e. by 22 January [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/15-swd-minutes.html#action23] 16:49:19 --done 16:50:35 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/16 ISSUE 16 16:51:11 (content negotiation using User-agent) 16:51:20 Ed: there are rewrite rules in the recipes for serving up vocabs that look for IE, and return proper RDF mime type, ignoring accept headers from IE. 16:51:30 ... small issue. 16:52:12 Tom: PROPOSAL to publish Recipes as WD. 16:52:19 ... objections? 16:52:22 [none] 16:52:27 ...abstentions? 16:52:32 [none] 16:52:33 not i :) 16:52:42 RESOLVED to publish Recipes as WD. 16:53:55 Guus: we need to send out emails to relevant mailing lists 16:54:43 ACTION: Alistair and Diego to solicit feedback via mailing lists on WD 16:55:42 s/RESOLUTION: SKOS published as WD/RESOLUTION: SKOS Reference published as WD/ 16:56:31 Topic: Vocabulary Management 16:56:38 ACTION: Vit and Elisa to include in the document all the target sections plus an allocation of sections to people and potentially a standard structure for sections [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07] 16:56:49 s/proper RDF mime type/HTML representation/ 16:57:17 --continues 16:57:18 Vit: had a call, and another scheduled to work on changes to draft. 16:57:48 ADJOURNED 16:58:19 Guus: in a position to review our schedule. 16:58:45 ACTION: Tom to put schedule review on agenda. 16:59:02 s/Tom/Chairs/ 16:59:14 -DLRubin 16:59:17 -aliman 16:59:18 -ed 16:59:19 -Quentin 16:59:20 -Vit 16:59:21 -TomB 16:59:23 -berrueta 16:59:24 ed has left #swd 16:59:25 -JonP 16:59:26 -Clay 16:59:28 -Guus 16:59:30 -Antoine_Isaac 16:59:36 zakim, list attendees 16:59:36 As of this point the attendees have been TomB, +2242aaaa, Quentin, Ralph, Antoine_Isaac, aliman, Ben, DLRubin, Vit, Guus, berrueta, JonP, Clay, ed 16:59:55 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:59:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html Ralph 17:00:05 ralph, I've just commited a new revision of http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20080118 with numbering done 17:00:06 dlrubin has left #swd 17:00:16 thanks, Alistair 17:00:56 Ben, any issues with the agenda? 17:03:38 -Ralph 17:03:40 -Ben 17:03:41 SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended 17:03:42 Attendees were TomB, +2242aaaa, Quentin, Ralph, Antoine_Isaac, aliman, Ben, DLRubin, Vit, Guus, berrueta, JonP, Clay, ed 17:03:52 zakim, bye 17:03:54 Zakim has left #swd 17:03:59 Ralph, thanks! 17:05:41 Ralph, I have a quick question about W3C - can we open a side channel? 17:11:59 Antoine has left #swd 19:29:34 rrsagent, bye 19:29:34 I see 22 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-actions.rdf : 19:29:34 ACTION: Alistair to add editorial note linking ISSUE-44 [1] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-17-16 19:29:34 ACTION: Ralph get SKOS WD published [2] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-20-42 19:29:34 ACTION: Guus to schedule to discussion on the notation (syntax) used in SKOS examples in Reference and Primer in two weeks time, i.e. on 29 January [3] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-22-24 19:29:34 ACTION: Alistair and Guus write draft section in primer on relationship between SKOS concepts and OWL classes for OWL DL users [4] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-22-47 19:29:34 ACTION: Margherita to review the SKOS primer [5] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-22-59 19:29:34 ACTION: Antoine to track the resolutions to ISSUE 36 [6] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-25-51 19:29:34 ACTION: Alistair to propose an approach to clarify which aspects of the extension module should be in scope for the candidate recommendation package. [7] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-40-01 19:29:34 ACTION: Alistair and Guus to prepare material for next week on Concept Schemes vs OWL Ontologies [8] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-40-08 19:29:34 ACTION: Guus to write up the issue [of Label Resource] and add to the issue list. [recorded in [9] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-40-18 19:29:34 ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of rdfs isDefinedBy fits the reasoning that was made in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0141.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10] [10] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-41-09 19:29:34 ACTION: Ben and Michael to address comments by Tom [regarding maintenance of wiki document http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa] recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05] [11] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-43-14 19:29:34 ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in [12] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-43-21 19:29:34 ACTION: Ben to distribute RDFa syntax draft to reviewers by Monday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-swd-minutes.html#action10] [13] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-43-32 19:29:34 ACTION: Diego to review RDFa syntax document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action12] [14] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-43-42 19:29:34 ACTION: Ed to review RDFa syntax document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action13] [15] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-43-49 19:29:34 ACTION: Ben to prepare the email to request the decision for publishing on Feb 5th [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/15-swd-minutes.html#action18] [16] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-43-55 19:29:34 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [17] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-47-47 19:29:34 ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in [18] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-48-29 19:29:34 ACTION: Jon and Diego to propose a decision on publishing the next Recipes draft by next week, i.e. by 22 January [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/15-swd-minutes.html#action23] [19] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-49-06 19:29:34 ACTION: Alistair and Diego to solicit feedback via mailing lists on WD [20] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-54-43 19:29:34 ACTION: Vit and Elisa to include in the document all the target sections plus an allocation of sections to people and potentially a standard structure for sections [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07] [21] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-56-38 19:29:34 ACTION: Tom to put schedule review on agenda. [22] 19:29:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-irc#T16-58-45