passcode not working - sandro?

<bijan> bristol bridge not working iether

talking to an admin now

<bijan> I'm on zakim now but the pc fails

<bijan> So, progress :)

<pfps> i expect that no one set up the tc on zakim

<bijan> Inviting zakim seems hard

<pfps> if no tc on zakim, then maybe no zakim agent on irc?

<bijan> No

<bijan> Zakim has ot be told what conference this i

<bijan> s

thought it was ongoing. WIll be set up in a couple of minutes

<bijan> Maybe if there's none at all...I guess that's possible

<bijan> who knows ;)

<bijan> /invite Zakim #owl

<bijan> not working

<pfps> no tc on http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar

admin is setting things up. should be ready in a few minutes.

<pfps> from http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar, 2007-03-28T1800Z - The Zakim phone bridge is up but with reduced (92) port capacity.

<pfps> rather out of date, no?

<IanH> is the conf code 69594?

<ewallace> That's what we used before

<IanH> Doesn't seem to work for me, but it might be a "feature" of skype

should be set up momentarily

<pfps> if there is no tc for us, then our pc isn't going to work

checking now

<ewallace> No. It's not working for any of us.

<Elisa> no -- the call was never set up properly according to Josh -- he's doing so now

<bijan> Still not working

<bijan> jsut tried

<pfps> maybe, but probably because no one reserved for this tc

call was scheduled through end of 2007.

<dlm> just got to a place to call - on in a minute

please take this time to review documents that you haven't looked at yet. I will note as soon as it is set up.

<dlm> i just got that i am the first participant inthe conference on the phone

call is working now

<bijan> connected

<IanH> +1

<pfps> +1

<ewallace> +1

+1

<dlm> +1 for 10am

<bijan> +1

<Elisa> +1

<scribe> scribe: Alanr

close all but evan's action

<dlm> +1

<pfps> +00000000000000000000000000000

<bijan> -1 I don't know the consequences of that.

<pfps> what bijan says, but less

Ideally, once we have these descriptions we can

Evaluate them together to see whether we agree that these reader descriptions are realistic.

Decide together who we think are the set of readers the WG will attempt to address.

Periodically refer back to these chosen descriptions to help guide the construction of given documents.

Perhaps find actual representatives of these sorts of readers to review our documents and give us feedback about whether the documents work for them.

<pfps> -1, then, as there are far too many targets

<pfps> what is a "use case" for these documents?

<bijan> Here's a proposal: We'll use this page (possibly expanded over time) when looking for feedback

<bijan> This can go: 9 (From the XQuery Page [1]) 30,000 Foot View, CIO, CTO, Journalist

<Vipul> +1

<pfps> ok, there is no chance that 9 will be able to read any document we produce (as opposed to a paragraph on a web page - or something "glossy")

<Vipul> What about merging various persona into canonical forms....

<Vipul> So what about creating a one pager for the CTO, CIO... That's probably not too much work?

<bijan> Vipul, the w3c will write a press release

<pfps> sure, but that is not a WG document

<bijan> whenw e go to rec

<Vipul> Why not?

<pfps> the one-pager is not something we should even thinking about doing

<pfps> at rec time, w3c will ask for wording for the press release, we can provide input for that

expectation is that once we've narrowed the list, if we get representative users and they don't understand things, then we would work on the documents to improve them

<Elisa> +1

<bijan> +1

<Vipul> +1

<IanH> +1

<pfps> +1

<dlm> +1

<bijan> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Experiments_with_documents

<bijan> http://www.w3.org/mid/A65B1E57-B9D0-4447-8624-CD1CBEB79436@gmail.com

<bijan> (outline in the second one)

<Vipul> I haven't read it...

bijan: Just an outline so hard to support what it would turn out of
... doesn't change how he feels about the document. If want to work out more detail, then encourage that.

a?

<bijan> My primary assessement is that my poisition on this document hasn't changed by this outline from the F2F

deb: Evan did some hunting around for what resistance was: Species was one.
... Would like agreement on outline before doing more text generation
... deb and peter not in agreement about features. would be willing to do more around that

<bijan> Isn't it still open whether there'd be a document of this particular sort at all?

<bijan> DId I get cut off?

<bijan> I did

<bijan> I'm back...weird

<bijan> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Experiments_with_documents

<pfps> i've dropped off the call somehow

saw. Call back...

<pfps> after my 3-minute call setup

:(

deb: asks what else could be done to make it acceptable

bijan makes point about working group versus rec

ian: Onus on Deb/Evan to flesh it out enough that it can be evaluated

<Zakim> pfps, you wanted to note that much WG work is speculative - certainly lots of my semantics work was

<dlm> +q

<IanH> +1

<bijan> And I think the WG wouldnt' support it

<IanH> If that's true, then presumably there is nothing different about the new version?

<bijan> Actually it was 2/3s against refreshing

<bijan> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F1_Minutes#User_Facing_Documents

deb: If nothing will change then why bother - cut losses now

<pfps> well people on the call are committed to working on this, but I'm not sure that the people on the call are the stakeholders

<bijan> PROPOSED: 'Overview' requirement from charter to be met by cleaned up and expanded-as-needed version of 2004 OWL Overview

alan: Asks for others for views

<bijan> total for yes: 7

<bijan> votes for no=12 (11 + vipul)

<bijan> 7 to 12 is not 50-50

Elisa: Does have users that appreciate accessibility features of overview documents. Not sure what right organization is?
... Interest in BNF, specifically

<bijan> We can generate a full BNF as an appendix

<bijan> Old overview didn't have a BND IIRC

<pfps> ... and bnf is in the SS

<IanH> I have to go soon -- train to catch

my phone dropped. hang on

<Vipul> +1 to separate from tutorial

<bijan> Elisa, I tried to start that here: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Structural_Reference_Experiment#Preliminaries

<Vipul> More of a walk-through, cook book, guide

<scribe> ACTION: Elisa will think about organization during the week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/14-owl-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-65 - Will think about organization during the week [on Elisa Kendall - due 2008-01-21].

<bijan> Conrad see: http://www.webont.org/owl/documents/primer-exp.html#2

Conrad: People can't just jump in. Concerned about software people understanding of classification.

http://www.webont.org/owl/documents/primer-exp.html

<Elisa> +1

<pfps> review - what review? I only wrote it.

<IanH> Got to go -- bye!

<pfps> I think that the page Bijan put together says most of it.

<dlm> one question we might think about is what we tell topeople who were relying on the overview,req, and guide and want to know how to get what they were accustomed to using before.

<ewallace> I hadn't seen any link to Bijan/Peter's Primer before today

<dlm> +q

<ewallace> I will review.

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128  of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13  
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Present: +1.703.713.aaaa Alan Deb Elisa_Kendall IanH bijan Evan_Wallace pfps Vipul_Kashyap +1.301.975.aabb Alan_Ruttenberg

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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 14 Jan 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/01/14-owl-minutes.html
People with action items: elisa

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<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report