18:57:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sml
18:57:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/10-sml-irc
18:58:41 <Zakim> XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has now started
18:58:48 <Zakim> +johnarwe
18:58:49 <johnarwe> johnarwe has joined #sml
18:58:55 <pratul> pratul has joined #sml
18:59:14 <Kirk> Kirk has joined #sml
18:59:38 <ginny> ginny has joined #sml
18:59:40 <Kirk> (I will be on the phone shortly)
19:00:11 <Valentina> Valentina has joined #sml
19:00:55 <Zakim> +Valentina
19:01:36 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:01:39 <Zakim> +ginny
19:01:48 <pratul> Zakim, Microsoft is ne
19:01:48 <Zakim> +ne; got it
19:02:00 <pratul> Zakim, Microsoft is me
19:02:00 <Zakim> sorry, pratul, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft'
19:02:19 <pratul> Zakim, ne is me
19:02:20 <Zakim> +pratul; got it
19:02:23 <Zakim> +Kirk
19:02:46 <Zakim> +Sandy
19:04:05 <jordan> jordan has joined #sml
19:04:12 <MSM> zakim, please call MSM-Office
19:04:12 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
19:04:13 <Zakim> +MSM
19:04:26 <MSM> zakim, who's here?
19:04:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see johnarwe, Valentina, pratul, ginny, Kirk, Sandy, MSM
19:04:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see jordan, Valentina, ginny, Kirk, pratul, johnarwe, RRSAgent, Zakim, Sandy, MSM, trackbot-ng
19:04:39 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:05:09 <Kumar> Kumar has joined #sml
19:05:15 <Valentina> scribe: Valentina
19:05:41 <Valentina> Meeting: SML teleconference 10/01/2008
19:05:49 <MSM> MSM has changed the topic to: SML call 10 Jan, agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Jan/0017.html
19:05:49 <Valentina> chair: pratul
19:06:26 <Valentina> Topic:Approval of minutes from previous meeting(s):
19:06:35 <Valentina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Jan/att-0010/2008-01-03-minutes.htm
19:06:55 <Valentina> Resolution: minutes approved
19:07:10 <Valentina> Topic: January F2F in Orlando
19:07:43 <Valentina> registration link https://www.sporg.com/registration?link_type=reg_info&form_id=96112
19:08:03 <Valentina> Sandy: not sure if he can attend the meeting
19:09:06 <jordan> regrets, I will not attend the F2F
19:10:22 <Valentina> Pratul: are registration fees separate from the dinner fee ?
19:10:39 <Valentina> Pratul: thinks that dinner is included in registration fee
19:10:55 <Zakim> +Jordan
19:11:30 <Valentina> Jordan: cannot attend the f2f
19:12:04 <Valentina> Topic: June F2F: Expected to be during 6/23-6/27 in Europe.
19:13:05 <Valentina> Pratul: are people that may not be able to attend ?
19:13:12 <Valentina> Ginny: not sure at this time
19:13:22 <Valentina> Kirk: not sure
19:13:28 <Valentina> Valentina: not sure
19:16:12 <Valentina> Pratul: who has a strong preference to not have this in Europe ?
19:16:44 <Valentina> nobody has a strong preference to not have the f2f in Europe
19:17:14 <Valentina> Pratul: is there a deadline for a making a decision ?
19:17:50 <Valentina> MSM: in practice, 8 week is almost too little; best practice is to set dates 6 months in advance
19:18:02 <Valentina> s/week/weeks
19:18:16 <Valentina> MSM: process says 8 weeks
19:19:22 <Valentina> Pratul: we can bring this up on the next call in February and decide on this
19:19:39 <Valentina> John: there is another call at the same time in Feb so a few will not attend
19:20:01 <Valentina> Pratul: let's talk about this on the 31 of January, or email
19:20:51 <Valentina> Topic: Action items
19:21:37 <Valentina> Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4992
19:22:55 <Valentina> Sandy: did not read the comments; needs more time to review this
19:23:27 <Valentina> Pratul: let's not close this yet then; wait for Sandy to review the bug
19:23:38 <Valentina> Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5063
19:24:16 <Valentina> Ginny: thought that Zulah was supposed to come up with a proposal for this
19:25:32 <Valentina> Pratul: based on note from Zulah, he feels that this can be discussed now and decide within the group
19:26:37 <Valentina> Kumar: last time MSM asked him to update the defect and group comments in one proposal; he did that in comment #9
19:27:25 <Valentina> Kumar: only MSM and Zulah asked for this update so he wants to hear MSM comments on what is in bugzilla now
19:30:12 <johnarwe> MSM, near the end of http://www.w3.org/XML/2008/01/sml-reference-constraints.xml section 1.1 is the text "The references of this set of reference must not form a cycle."  That appears to need some editorial help.
19:33:49 <MSM> s/references of this set of reference/members of this set of references/
19:33:56 <MSM> q+
19:36:01 <Valentina> MSM: have a few questions
19:36:35 <Valentina> MSM: 6.a.ii wants to make sure he understands tha usecase here
19:36:43 <Valentina> s/tha/the
19:37:47 <Valentina> MSM: in what circumstances there can be an entry ?
19:39:11 <Valentina> MSM: satisfied by Kumar's answer
19:40:21 <Valentina> MSM: question for : 'Two identity constraints are considered identical if they have the same qname'
19:40:25 <pratul> Zakim, who is making noise?
19:40:36 <Zakim> pratul, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandy (19%), MSM (23%), [Microsoft] (18%)
19:40:42 <Valentina> MSM: this should read iff they have the same name
19:40:59 <Valentina> Kumar: agreed, will make the changes
19:41:40 <Valentina> MSM: no more questions related to the content in comment 9
19:42:14 <Valentina> MSM: wants to know if Sandy feels that his concerns are being addressed here
19:42:41 <Valentina> MSM: on a higher level, there are a few design questions, highlighted in a note just sent out
19:43:30 <Valentina> MSM: wants to review this note after Sandy answers on the low level questions
19:44:01 <Valentina> Sandy: he feel the content in comments 9 is correct and it covers all the usecases
19:44:12 <Valentina> s/feel/feels
19:45:02 <Valentina> Pratul: suggests to move now to MSM's note since Sandy is okay with the content posted by Kumar in bugzilla
19:45:37 <Valentina> MSM: will give an overview of this note since has just been sent to the group and nobody had a chance to review it
19:46:47 <Valentina> MSM: the goal is to outline a set of usecases and see how the proposal covers them
20:03:30 <MSM> Example:  if we have three elements and three types:  EnrolledCourse as ECType, GradEnrolledCourse as GECType, UGEnrolledCourse as UGECType.
20:04:04 <MSM> Where GECType is derived by restriction from ECType, and UGECType is derived by restriction from ECType.
20:04:46 <MSM> And EnrolledCourse has a targetElement constraint of Course
20:06:42 <MSM> If GradEnrolledCourse and UGEnrolledCourse are substitutable for EnrolledCourse, then they do have a targetElement constraint
20:06:54 <MSM> If they are not substitutable, then they do not have that constraint.
20:08:33 <Valentina> Ginny: what is the reason for restricting these constraints  to element declarations ?
20:09:09 <Valentina> Kumar: this is how was defined in the initial submission
20:10:03 <MSM> [In practice, you'd probably want GradEnrolledCourse to have a targetElement value of GradCourse, not just of Course
20:19:11 <zulah> zulah has joined #sml
20:23:35 <Zakim> +Zulah_Eckert
20:24:38 <Valentina> Kumar: if the constraints are attached to elements the we need this proposal to support inheritance
20:26:04 <Valentina> Kumar: proposes to review this proposal in the light that this constraints are defined on elements and review the option of having the constraints defined on types after that
20:27:48 <Valentina> Pratul: everybody agree to resolve this defect as is and open another defect to review having constraints on types ?
20:28:00 <Valentina> s/agree/agrees
20:28:13 <Valentina> Kirk: okay with opening a bug on the type issue
20:28:34 <Valentina> Pratul: any objection to resolve this bug as proposed by Kumar ?
20:28:57 <Valentina> Resolution: no objection, the bug will be resolved as proposed in comment 9
20:29:18 <Valentina> Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5064
20:29:40 <Valentina> Kumar: is addessed by the same proposal, from 5063
20:31:39 <Valentina> Resolution: resolve this bug as described by proposal in 5063, point 1 and 2
20:31:54 <Valentina> Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4675
20:33:35 <Valentina> Sandy: proposal described in comment 27
20:34:30 <Valentina> Ginny: have a reservation of the two level conformance
20:34:37 <Valentina> s/of/on
20:36:31 <Valentina> rrsagent, generate minutes
20:36:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/10-sml-minutes.html Valentina
20:36:58 <Valentina> rrsagent, make log public
20:37:27 <Valentina> rrsagent, generate minutes
20:37:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/10-sml-minutes.html Valentina
20:45:22 <Valentina> Pratul: suggests to have SMLIF producers being able to produce fully conformant IF documents but they may be able to produce other type of documents
20:45:54 <Valentina> Kumar: seems to be similar with the floor ceiling approach where the floor is a fully conformant IF document
20:51:29 <Valentina> MSM: will add a comment to bug 4675 proposing rewording content
20:53:06 <Valentina> Kirk: suggests to change naming from Full and Minimal conformance to something else
20:53:29 <Valentina> Kirk: will add a comment to bugzilla proposing new names
20:53:56 <Valentina> Pratul: aside of naming and wording, is everybody okay with the proposal ?
20:54:12 <Valentina> Pratul: no objections
20:55:18 <Valentina> Resolution: no substantial issues with this bug, waiting for proposal on name changes and rewording
20:55:42 <Valentina> Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5306
20:57:51 <Valentina> Ginny: suggests to either close this as wont fix or spend the time and review this asap
20:58:17 <Valentina> Kumar: okay to close as wont fix
20:58:40 <Valentina> MSM: prefer to spend more time analyzing but no strong opinion
20:59:39 <Valentina> Kirk: wants to review this
20:59:53 <Valentina> Pratul: would Kirk have a proposal for the next call ?
21:00:10 <Valentina> Kirk: will have a proposal for the next call, or before the call
21:00:33 <Zakim> -Sandy
21:00:34 <Valentina> Kumar: would be great if the proposal is sent before the call
21:01:20 <Zakim> -pratul
21:01:21 <Zakim> -Valentina
21:01:22 <Zakim> -ginny
21:01:23 <Zakim> -Zulah_Eckert
21:01:23 <Zakim> -Kirk
21:01:25 <Zakim> -Jordan
21:01:27 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:01:30 <ginny>  /quit
21:01:32 <Zakim> -MSM
21:01:37 <Zakim> -johnarwe
21:01:38 <Zakim> XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended
21:01:39 <Zakim> Attendees were johnarwe, Valentina, ginny, pratul, Kirk, Sandy, MSM, [Microsoft], Jordan, Zulah_Eckert
21:07:59 <MSM> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:07:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/10-sml-minutes.html MSM
21:14:19 <johnarwe> johnarwe has left #sml
22:39:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sml