IRC log of tsdtf on 2008-01-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:28:14 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf

13:28:14 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc

13:28:25 [Christophe]

Zakim, conferences?

13:28:25 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, Christophe.

13:28:41 [Christophe]

Zakim, this will be TSDTF

13:28:41 [Zakim]

ok, Christophe; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

13:28:52 [Christophe]

Meeting: TSD TF

13:29:28 [Christophe]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2008Jan/0000.html

13:29:42 [Christophe]

Chair: Christophe

13:29:46 [Christophe]

Regrets: CarlosV

13:30:21 [Christophe]

Agenda+ Announcements, etc.

13:30:47 [Christophe]

Agenda+ Reviewing test samples for previous working draft

13:30:56 [Christophe]

Agenda+ Test suite ID in metadata

13:31:05 [Christophe]

Agenda+ Discussion: rule/@primary and testCase/@complexity

13:31:18 [Christophe]

Agenda+ Review of action items

13:31:41 [MichaelC]

MichaelC has joined #tsdtf

13:32:28 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started

13:32:30 [Zakim]

+Cooper

13:32:59 [CarlosI]

CarlosI has joined #tsdtf

13:33:07 [Zakim]

+Shadi

13:33:44 [Zakim]

+ +32163aaaa

13:34:08 [Christophe]

zakim, +32 is ChristopheStrobbe

13:34:08 [Zakim]

+ChristopheStrobbe; got it

13:35:36 [Zakim]

+Carlos_Iglesias

13:35:39 [shadi]

scribe: Shadi

13:35:49 [shadi]

topics?

13:35:52 [shadi]

agenda?

13:37:08 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

13:37:08 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Announcements, etc." taken up [from Christophe]

13:37:25 [shadi]

CS: Happy New Year! :)

13:37:41 [shadi]

CS: had BenToWeb review in mid-december, it went quite well

13:37:59 [shadi]

...still need to do a few things but more or less closed

13:38:10 [shadi]

...still figuring out the future of this work

13:39:07 [shadi]

SAZ: all test cases on the W3C servers?

13:39:17 [shadi]

CS: no, not yet all

13:40:59 [shadi]

SAZ: not a top priority to transition them fast, we already have a lot of unreviewed ones

13:41:30 [shadi]

MC: tests are becoming ever more important, may be a good time to bring back to the WG group now

13:42:33 [shadi]

...might be good to send a formal mail to the WG, and maybe try to get a slot on the Thrusday call

13:43:35 [shadi]

SAZ: WG doing planning now or after the review period ends?

13:44:28 [shadi]

MC: doing planning now, just in case

13:46:37 [shadi]

action: CS send email to the WCAG WG explaining the status of the tests, and ask for a speaking slot at the upcoming Thursday call

13:47:24 [shadi]

CS: side note, at least 300 more test cases from BenToWeb in the queue

13:49:59 [shadi]

CI: we will talk internally in CTIC about future plans

13:50:18 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

13:50:18 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Reviewing test samples for previous working draft" taken up [from Christophe]

13:50:46 [shadi]

CS: several action items were set, but haven't seen follow-up

13:50:56 [shadi]

...seems nothing changed

13:52:13 [shadi]

action: CS send out reminder to the people with due action items, pointing them to the outstanding work and asking them for dates by which they can deliver

13:52:22 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

13:52:22 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Test suite ID in metadata" taken up [from Christophe]

13:52:34 [Christophe]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2007Dec/0000.html

13:53:25 [shadi]

CS: nothing in the metadata telling us which test suite a test belongs to

13:53:49 [shadi]

...would be useful, also to filter out old/unused tests etc

13:54:51 [shadi]

SAZ: is that different to the naming convention discussion that is still open?

13:55:45 [shadi]

...to make the ID more stable

13:55:46 [shadi]

CS: it relates as both impact the naming convention

13:57:59 [shadi]

SAZ: if we will reopen the ID/naming/tagging discusion then we may want to take a step back and collect all outstanding issues

14:00:56 [shadi]

MC: agree with the overall thought, should minimize the refactoring work

14:01:19 [shadi]

...not interested in how the IDs look like, they just need to work

14:03:28 [shadi]

SAZ: not so much about making the IDs more pretty, but if we have to touch them anyway then we should consider all aspects first

14:06:01 [shadi]

action: MC to have a fresh look at the ID/naming and linking/referencing of tests (especially linkage to techniques, stability, etc)

14:06:47 [shadi]

action: CS send summary of the ID/naming/referencing mechanism of the tests, and collect the open issues (or previously discussed issues that were not ideally resolved)

14:07:50 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

14:07:50 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Discussion: rule/@primary and testCase/@complexity" taken up [from Christophe]

14:08:05 [Christophe]

See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2008Jan/0001.html

14:09:18 [shadi]

CS: discussion allowing non primary rules vs just one single rule per test

14:11:20 [shadi]

A - Allowing just one primary rule and several other informational ones

14:13:54 [shadi]

CI: most of the tests so far seem to only have 1 rule anyway

14:14:16 [shadi]

...allowing multiple rule makes reviewing more difficult and complex

14:14:36 [shadi]

...we should keep it simple and just use what we need

14:15:23 [shadi]

CS: we may have not added such information but that doesn't mean it isn't useful

14:16:13 [shadi]

CI: we should focus on what we need, and simplify the process

14:16:27 [shadi]

...don't see any impact on the quality of the samples

14:23:02 [shadi]

SAZ: my understanding is that the check for the proper use of the primary/compelxity attributes can be automated, and therefore it doesn't add too much reviewing overhead

14:23:27 [shadi]

...agree that we should keep it simple, but shouldn't disallow something that we may later need

14:23:56 [shadi]

...WCAG 2.0 has a lot of cross-references or relationships between different SC, especially at different Levels

14:24:12 [shadi]

...we may want to reflect this at some stage, so this feature may become handy

14:25:53 [shadi]

CI: exactly one primary rule, and 0 or more information ones?

14:26:05 [shadi]

SAZ: yes

14:27:24 [shadi]

CI: and other metadata such as expertGuidance only refer to the primary rule or to which rule exactly?

14:27:52 [shadi]

CS: don't see this as a real issue

14:29:48 [shadi]

SAZ: are there concrete examples?

14:30:14 [shadi]

CI: take color contrast SCs which are in two different levels

14:31:28 [shadi]

CS: good example, it fails Level 3 and passes Level 2

14:31:47 [shadi]

CI: then they are both primary, why is one informational?

14:36:18 [shadi]

action: CS send concrete examples of tests that make use of the primary/complexity attributes

14:37:17 [Zakim]

-Shadi

14:37:19 [Zakim]

-Cooper

14:37:19 [Zakim]

-ChristopheStrobbe

14:37:29 [Zakim]

-Carlos_Iglesias

14:37:30 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended

14:37:31 [Zakim]

Attendees were Cooper, Shadi, +32163aaaa, ChristopheStrobbe, Carlos_Iglesias

14:38:42 [shadi]

zakim, bye

14:38:42 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tsdtf

14:38:48 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:38:53 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:38:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi

14:38:54 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:38:58 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-actions.rdf :

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: CS send email to the WCAG WG explaining the status of the tests, and ask for a speaking slot at the upcoming Thursday call [1]

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T13-46-37

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: CS send out reminder to the people with due action items, pointing them to the outstanding work and asking them for dates by which they can deliver [2]

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T13-52-13

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: MC to have a fresh look at the ID/naming and linking/referencing of tests (especially linkage to techniques, stability, etc) [3]

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-06-01

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: CS send summary of the ID/naming/referencing mechanism of the tests, and collect the open issues (or previously discussed issues that were not ideally resolved) [4]

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-06-47

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: CS send concrete examples of tests that make use of the primary/complexity attributes [5]

14:38:58 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-36-18