IRC log of tsdtf on 2008-01-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:28:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf
13:28:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc
13:28:25 [Christophe]
Zakim, conferences?
13:28:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Christophe.
13:28:41 [Christophe]
Zakim, this will be TSDTF
13:28:41 [Zakim]
ok, Christophe; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:28:52 [Christophe]
Meeting: TSD TF
13:29:28 [Christophe]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2008Jan/0000.html
13:29:42 [Christophe]
Chair: Christophe
13:29:46 [Christophe]
Regrets: CarlosV
13:30:21 [Christophe]
Agenda+ Announcements, etc.
13:30:47 [Christophe]
Agenda+ Reviewing test samples for previous working draft
13:30:56 [Christophe]
Agenda+ Test suite ID in metadata
13:31:05 [Christophe]
Agenda+ Discussion: rule/@primary and testCase/@complexity
13:31:18 [Christophe]
Agenda+ Review of action items
13:31:41 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #tsdtf
13:32:28 [Zakim]
WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
13:32:30 [Zakim]
+Cooper
13:32:59 [CarlosI]
CarlosI has joined #tsdtf
13:33:07 [Zakim]
+Shadi
13:33:44 [Zakim]
+ +32163aaaa
13:34:08 [Christophe]
zakim, +32 is ChristopheStrobbe
13:34:08 [Zakim]
+ChristopheStrobbe; got it
13:35:36 [Zakim]
+Carlos_Iglesias
13:35:39 [shadi]
scribe: Shadi
13:35:49 [shadi]
topics?
13:35:52 [shadi]
agenda?
13:37:08 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 1
13:37:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Announcements, etc." taken up [from Christophe]
13:37:25 [shadi]
CS: Happy New Year! :)
13:37:41 [shadi]
CS: had BenToWeb review in mid-december, it went quite well
13:37:59 [shadi]
...still need to do a few things but more or less closed
13:38:10 [shadi]
...still figuring out the future of this work
13:39:07 [shadi]
SAZ: all test cases on the W3C servers?
13:39:17 [shadi]
CS: no, not yet all
13:40:59 [shadi]
SAZ: not a top priority to transition them fast, we already have a lot of unreviewed ones
13:41:30 [shadi]
MC: tests are becoming ever more important, may be a good time to bring back to the WG group now
13:42:33 [shadi]
...might be good to send a formal mail to the WG, and maybe try to get a slot on the Thrusday call
13:43:35 [shadi]
SAZ: WG doing planning now or after the review period ends?
13:44:28 [shadi]
MC: doing planning now, just in case
13:46:37 [shadi]
action: CS send email to the WCAG WG explaining the status of the tests, and ask for a speaking slot at the upcoming Thursday call
13:47:24 [shadi]
CS: side note, at least 300 more test cases from BenToWeb in the queue
13:49:59 [shadi]
CI: we will talk internally in CTIC about future plans
13:50:18 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
13:50:18 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Reviewing test samples for previous working draft" taken up [from Christophe]
13:50:46 [shadi]
CS: several action items were set, but haven't seen follow-up
13:50:56 [shadi]
...seems nothing changed
13:52:13 [shadi]
action: CS send out reminder to the people with due action items, pointing them to the outstanding work and asking them for dates by which they can deliver
13:52:22 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
13:52:22 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Test suite ID in metadata" taken up [from Christophe]
13:52:34 [Christophe]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2007Dec/0000.html
13:53:25 [shadi]
CS: nothing in the metadata telling us which test suite a test belongs to
13:53:49 [shadi]
...would be useful, also to filter out old/unused tests etc
13:54:51 [shadi]
SAZ: is that different to the naming convention discussion that is still open?
13:55:45 [shadi]
...to make the ID more stable
13:55:46 [shadi]
CS: it relates as both impact the naming convention
13:57:59 [shadi]
SAZ: if we will reopen the ID/naming/tagging discusion then we may want to take a step back and collect all outstanding issues
14:00:56 [shadi]
MC: agree with the overall thought, should minimize the refactoring work
14:01:19 [shadi]
...not interested in how the IDs look like, they just need to work
14:03:28 [shadi]
SAZ: not so much about making the IDs more pretty, but if we have to touch them anyway then we should consider all aspects first
14:06:01 [shadi]
action: MC to have a fresh look at the ID/naming and linking/referencing of tests (especially linkage to techniques, stability, etc)
14:06:47 [shadi]
action: CS send summary of the ID/naming/referencing mechanism of the tests, and collect the open issues (or previously discussed issues that were not ideally resolved)
14:07:50 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:07:50 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Discussion: rule/@primary and testCase/@complexity" taken up [from Christophe]
14:08:05 [Christophe]
See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2008Jan/0001.html
14:09:18 [shadi]
CS: discussion allowing non primary rules vs just one single rule per test
14:11:20 [shadi]
A - Allowing just one primary rule and several other informational ones
14:13:54 [shadi]
CI: most of the tests so far seem to only have 1 rule anyway
14:14:16 [shadi]
...allowing multiple rule makes reviewing more difficult and complex
14:14:36 [shadi]
...we should keep it simple and just use what we need
14:15:23 [shadi]
CS: we may have not added such information but that doesn't mean it isn't useful
14:16:13 [shadi]
CI: we should focus on what we need, and simplify the process
14:16:27 [shadi]
...don't see any impact on the quality of the samples
14:23:02 [shadi]
SAZ: my understanding is that the check for the proper use of the primary/compelxity attributes can be automated, and therefore it doesn't add too much reviewing overhead
14:23:27 [shadi]
...agree that we should keep it simple, but shouldn't disallow something that we may later need
14:23:56 [shadi]
...WCAG 2.0 has a lot of cross-references or relationships between different SC, especially at different Levels
14:24:12 [shadi]
...we may want to reflect this at some stage, so this feature may become handy
14:25:53 [shadi]
CI: exactly one primary rule, and 0 or more information ones?
14:26:05 [shadi]
SAZ: yes
14:27:24 [shadi]
CI: and other metadata such as expertGuidance only refer to the primary rule or to which rule exactly?
14:27:52 [shadi]
CS: don't see this as a real issue
14:29:48 [shadi]
SAZ: are there concrete examples?
14:30:14 [shadi]
CI: take color contrast SCs which are in two different levels
14:31:28 [shadi]
CS: good example, it fails Level 3 and passes Level 2
14:31:47 [shadi]
CI: then they are both primary, why is one informational?
14:36:18 [shadi]
action: CS send concrete examples of tests that make use of the primary/complexity attributes
14:37:17 [Zakim]
-Shadi
14:37:19 [Zakim]
-Cooper
14:37:19 [Zakim]
-ChristopheStrobbe
14:37:29 [Zakim]
-Carlos_Iglesias
14:37:30 [Zakim]
WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
14:37:31 [Zakim]
Attendees were Cooper, Shadi, +32163aaaa, ChristopheStrobbe, Carlos_Iglesias
14:38:42 [shadi]
zakim, bye
14:38:42 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tsdtf
14:38:48 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
14:38:53 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:38:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
14:38:54 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
14:38:58 [shadi]
rrsagent, bye
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-actions.rdf :
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CS send email to the WCAG WG explaining the status of the tests, and ask for a speaking slot at the upcoming Thursday call [1]
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T13-46-37
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CS send out reminder to the people with due action items, pointing them to the outstanding work and asking them for dates by which they can deliver [2]
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T13-52-13
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: MC to have a fresh look at the ID/naming and linking/referencing of tests (especially linkage to techniques, stability, etc) [3]
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-06-01
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CS send summary of the ID/naming/referencing mechanism of the tests, and collect the open issues (or previously discussed issues that were not ideally resolved) [4]
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-06-47
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CS send concrete examples of tests that make use of the primary/complexity attributes [5]
14:38:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-36-18