15:58:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcls
15:58:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-hcls-irc
15:58:30 <Vipul> rrsagent, make logs world-visible
15:59:02 <LeeF> zakim, code?
15:59:04 <Zakim> the conference code is hidden, LeeF
15:59:14 <LeeF> zakim, you sly robot you
15:59:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you sly robot you', LeeF
15:59:16 <Vipul> Zakim, this is BIONT
15:59:16 <Zakim> Vipul, I see SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be BIONT".
15:59:20 <Helen> Helen has joined #hcls
15:59:28 <Vipul> Zakim, this will be BIONT
15:59:28 <Zakim> ok, Vipul; I see SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:34 <LeeF> zakim, code?
15:59:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 24668 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF
15:59:41 <LeeF> thanks, zakim
15:59:46 <Zakim> SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM has now started
15:59:54 <Zakim> +Tony
16:00:03 <JyotiPathak> JyotiPathak has joined #hcls
16:00:16 <Zakim> +LeeF
16:00:20 <Zakim> + +1.781.416.aaaa
16:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.519.746.aabb
16:00:43 <LeeF> zakim, mute me please
16:00:43 <Zakim> LeeF should now be muted
16:00:56 <Zakim> +Susie
16:00:57 <Vipul> Zakim, aabb is Helen_Chen
16:00:57 <Zakim> +Helen_Chen; got it
16:01:01 <Zakim> +Bo.Anderssen
16:01:08 <Vipul> Zakim, aaaa is Vipul
16:01:08 <Zakim> +Vipul; got it
16:01:35 <Vipul> Zakim, who's here?
16:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, LeeF (muted), Vipul, Helen_Chen, Susie, Bo.Anderssen
16:01:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see JyotiPathak, Helen, RRSAgent, Vipul, LeeF, mscottm, dbooth, jar286, ericP, Zakim
16:02:09 <Zakim> +Jennifer
16:02:29 <Zakim> +??P12
16:03:06 <Vipul> Zakim, +??P12 is Parsa
16:03:10 <Susie> Susie has joined #hcls
16:03:19 <Zakim> + +1.813.484.aacc
16:03:25 <Zakim> sorry, Vipul, I do not recognize a party named '+??P12'
16:03:27 <Zakim> +TomL
16:03:45 <Vipul> Zakim, aacc is RachelRichesson
16:03:52 <Zakim> +RachelRichesson; got it
16:04:49 <LeeF> zakim, P12 is Parsa
16:04:50 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'P12'
16:04:55 <LeeF> zakim, ??P12 is Parsa
16:04:55 <Zakim> +Parsa; got it
16:04:59 <Parsa> Parsa has joined #hcls
16:05:10 <Tom> Tom has joined #hcls
16:06:01 <Vipul> Zakim, who's here?
16:06:10 <fostel> fostel has joined #hcls
16:06:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, LeeF (muted), Vipul, Helen_Chen, Susie, Bo.Anderssen, Jennifer, Parsa, RachelRichesson, TomL
16:06:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see fostel, Tom, Parsa, Susie, JyotiPathak, Helen, RRSAgent, Vipul, LeeF, mscottm, dbooth, jar286, ericP, Zakim
16:06:38 <fostel> hello!
16:07:15 <Vipul> Welcome jennier
16:07:31 <Vipul> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:33 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jennifer
16:08:26 <LeeF> Scribe: Jennifer
16:08:32 <Vipul> EricP can you come on Zakim
16:08:48 <Vipul> Agenda:
16:09:02 <Vipul> 1. Roll Call
16:09:21 <Vipul> 2. Admin Issues: Set up mailing List
16:09:43 <fostel> who will do this?
16:09:44 <Vipul> EricP, please come on line?
16:10:02 <fostel> Eric will set up mailing list for COI task force, but he is not on the call
16:10:15 <fostel> outpatient data
16:10:23 <LeeF> ScribeNick: fostel
16:10:36 <Vipul> 3. Mock Patient Data for Diabetes and Hypertension
16:11:06 <Vipul> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/MockedUpPatientData)
16:11:28 <fostel> vipul:  good meting with endocrinologist; 
16:11:44 <fostel> vipul:  should have mock data soon
16:12:04 <fostel> Parsa:  format of data?  out / in patient?
16:12:15 <fostel> Parsa:  historic data?
16:13:03 <fostel> vipul:  example of each in and outpt; data items in example; 
16:13:27 <fostel> vipul:  example protocols from clinicaltrials.gov
16:13:35 <fostel> narrative or structured?
16:13:58 <fostel> vipul -- format should not be an issue
16:14:30 <fostel> parsa -- searched reports for outpt data + history + contextual data; have several cases in narrative form; will upload
16:15:19 <fostel> parsa -- not of the data reports have all of the elements listed by vipul; need a handful of pts showing different data elements
16:16:11 <fostel> parsa:  discussion with UTx clinic; collect outpt data; willing to share whole data set, lab reports in a few days.  2K pts data; need to strip out IDs
16:16:36 <fostel> vipul:  sample of pts from this database
16:17:03 <fostel> parsa:  focus on diabetes nad hypertension; use remaining to test our format / model
16:17:36 <fostel> next agenda:  Jyoti clarification
16:18:06 <fostel> Joyti - plannignmeeting with div epidemiology planned for early Feb; will try to obtain data
16:18:52 <fostel> action item - jyoti report back after this meeting
16:18:58 <Vipul> ACTION: Jyoti to report back after 1st Feb
16:19:24 <fostel> vipul  Peter...?
16:19:33 <Vipul> Peter Elkin
16:19:47 <fostel> joyti:  peter Elkin not aware / not interested
16:20:39 <fostel> jyoti:  harold in not in the loop at this point; need to involve him; will discuss this week; send e-mail to vipul
16:21:10 <fostel> vipul:  tom still working on data; set up a meeting
16:21:43 <fostel> vipul: useful to get data from different sources to stress the system
16:22:04 <LeeF> +4s/joyti/jyoti
16:22:14 <fostel> rachel:  no access to data; provide dummy data?
16:22:30 <fostel> sorry about typos!
16:23:04 <fostel> vipul:  progress on dummy pt data; data requirements ... George?
16:23:25 <fostel> vipul:  George will come up with data requirements for hypertensive study
16:24:31 <fostel> vipul:  minimum dataset for clinical study; particular data items must be included
16:24:42 <fostel> fostel:  we should check CONSORT for minimum data
16:25:38 <fostel> fostel:  http://www.consort-statement.org/
16:25:59 <fostel> rachel?:  not aware of minimal data in research trials
16:26:11 <fostel> fostel:  argee with rachel re minimal reqs
16:27:26 <fostel> vipul:  data from free research protocols; distributed to data people; will upload the spreadsheet soon
16:27:54 <fostel> vipul:  work on mapping
16:28:15 <fostel> vipul:  will identify key data items from the spreadsheet;
16:29:00 <fostel> vipul:  aim to look at data requirements eg pt age; HL7 RIM - how is pt age modeled
16:29:22 <fostel> vipul:  role = pt; attribute = birth time; data type = time stamp
16:29:26 <Parsa> URL for CONSORT:    http://www.consort-statement.org/
16:29:51 <fostel> vipul;  yesterday distributed spreadsheet; tom-- how will DCM elements be found?
16:30:22 <fostel> vipul:  gender example -- HL7 has code; RIM has well defined domains
16:30:54 <fostel> vipul:  RIM has terminology, eg male / female; also can bind user own data terms
16:31:20 <fostel> vipul:  blood pressure -- observation; obs type = physical exam for instance
16:31:44 <fostel> vipul:  RIM obs.code and obs value; code = obs type; this is what Tom was referring to
16:32:23 <fostel> vipul:  obs value domain bind to ICD9, or bind to SNOMED; HL7-RIM is agnostic to vocab, can bind ot any set of terms
16:32:48 <fostel> who?: in NL can use terminology, JP can use another teminology
16:33:34 <fostel> vipul:  drug = zenical; HL7-RIM would need route, dosage, frequency, time of delivery
16:33:49 <fostel> vipul:  we need to model time
16:34:00 <fostel> fostel:  time is a critical thing to model, indeed!
16:34:34 <fostel> vipul:  model needs to be general; pt recruitment, trial, etc.  not hard code it based on one use case
16:35:59 <fostel> Tom: some folks may store these data, eg administration of drug, in which case route, frequency, etc would be stored
16:36:43 <fostel> Tom:  :pt is taking fentinyl" is a different case; eg pt is taking the drug but we do not have administration details
16:37:28 <fostel> tom:  if the derived data are frequently-queried, then store them; they always store granular administration data
16:38:29 <fostel> parsa:  direct and indirect evidence -- pts may have assertion that he has fever (in vital signs) or may have medication for fever in chart
16:39:01 <fostel> parsa:  model depends on goal; physician note/diagnosis regarding disease, med, symptom; or is it sufficient to infer this from other evidence?
16:40:01 <fostel> vipul:  example - document posted on wiki - 
16:40:36 <fostel> parsa:  self-reported fever; family-reported fevel; practitioner-reported fever; objeective fever (based on measurement)
16:41:09 <fostel> vipul:  we are thinking of modeling the first three as inference
16:41:49 <fostel> vipul: these will be identified suring mapping across systems
16:41:56 <fostel> vipul: assessment not inference
16:43:12 <fostel> vipul:  example, protocol 8, criteria 16:  uncontrolled hypertension has value greater than N; in ER would only have the raw values, reasoner would need to be able to infer diagnosis
16:44:16 <fostel> vipul:  will distribute the spreadsheet; can we fill out DCM elements?
16:44:59 <fostel> vipul: any standard; not just DCM
16:45:22 <fostel> vipul:  action item for tom -- DCM values for these rows
16:46:08 <fostel> vipul:  HL7 has std way to go to vocab; will we use this method or another?
16:46:37 <fostel> tom:  they have internal vocab; may be mappable to LOINC, etc, but they bind their model to their terms
16:46:38 <Vipul> ACTION: Tom Oniki to come up with DCM elements for the list of HL7/RIM elements
16:46:55 <fostel> parsa:  std way to map?
16:47:49 <fostel> vipul:  next agenda:  clarification to some folks; will send further
16:48:22 <fostel> vipul:  scope of project; something accomplished within 6 to 9 months, but not too narrow a scope
16:48:53 <fostel> vipul:  good prospects - Deni (institution in Ireland?) has identified a student to help with the tasks
16:49:22 <fostel> vipul:  lee (online but muted) cambridge informatics, implementation of mapping model
16:49:38 <fostel> vipul:  need to answer questions raised before mapping
16:49:41 <LeeF> Cambridge Semantics, actually :)
16:49:52 <fostel> thaks, lee!
16:50:26 <fostel> vipul:  much work in mapping to be done; RIM to use case
16:51:28 <Vipul> ACTION: Vipul to send out the brainstorming slides to the rest of the group
16:51:34 <fostel> who?  fine grained details about contents of fields; this is useful in order to line up groups to handle the tasks
16:52:10 <fostel> vipul:  high level functional specs; details (RDF, Owl, ..) up to implementer
16:52:19 <fostel> who = Parsa
16:52:57 <fostel> parsa:  is there a sematic representation of HL7RIM that we can use as basis of mapping or do we have to create one?
16:53:13 <fostel> parsa:  every narrative has to be converted ton RDF/OWL representation
16:54:01 <fostel> vipul:  no single structure now; we are not making one; we want to make a representation that will be useful to other use cases
16:54:21 <LeeF> suggestion: model the RIM to the extent we have instance data for it for the use case
16:54:24 <fostel> parsa:  yes, we are not modeling entier RIM; but part that is useful to our use case still needs to bemapped
16:54:29 <LeeF> (ah, I guess that's what Parsa just suggested also :-)
16:54:36 <fostel> vipul:  we are sending the specs around
16:55:33 <JyotiPathak> Apologies -- I am signing out; need to run for another meeting. 
16:55:40 <fostel> who:  RIM Is Obj Oriented; they have UML;  we need to translate this to class hierarchy in automated way
16:56:07 <fostel> who?:  propose RIM-OWL demonstration; 
16:56:41 <JyotiPathak> JyotiPathak has left #hcls
16:56:44 <fostel> who?  look at data description not RIM model; RIM is high level
16:56:46 <LeeF> who = Helen, I think
16:57:06 <fostel> vipul:  look at sematic binding
16:57:16 <fostel> helen:  then go to CDA
16:57:32 <Zakim> -Tony
16:57:46 <fostel> helen:  RIM doesn't lend much to semantics
16:58:24 <fostel> tom:  RIM is high level; not as up to date as Dan as how they do constraints 
16:58:38 <fostel> tom:  constrain HML representation of document
16:58:47 <Zakim> -Susie
16:59:14 <fostel> vipul:  look at CDA into more detail
16:59:29 <fostel> susie (aka helan): translate directly into RDF from CDA
16:59:39 <fostel> keep us all inthe loop!
17:00:18 <fostel> vipul:  work with Dan on HL7 descriptions, Tom RIM, Helen CDA
17:01:08 <fostel> action: email spreadsheet
17:01:11 <Vipul> ACTION: Helen Chen to investigtat the CDA
17:01:38 <fostel> updates?
17:01:50 <Zakim> -TomL
17:01:50 <fostel> vipul:  see you next week!
17:01:51 <Zakim> -RachelRichesson
17:01:52 <Zakim> -Bo.Anderssen
17:01:59 <Zakim> -Helen_Chen
17:02:06 <Zakim> -LeeF
17:02:09 <Zakim> -Vipul
17:02:10 <fostel> fostel:  bye!
17:02:11 <Zakim> -Parsa
17:02:12 <Zakim> -Jennifer
17:02:14 <Zakim> SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM has ended
17:02:15 <Zakim> Attendees were Tony, LeeF, +1.781.416.aaaa, +1.519.746.aabb, Susie, Helen_Chen, Bo.Anderssen, Vipul, Jennifer, +1.813.484.aacc, TomL, RachelRichesson, Parsa
17:02:16 <Vipul> rrsagent, make minutes
17:02:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-hcls-minutes.html Vipul
17:02:26 <Vipul> Thanks Jennifer!
18:01:18 <LeeF_> LeeF_ has joined #hcls