15:59:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
15:59:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc
15:59:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
15:59:25 <Ralph> zakim, this will be rdfa
15:59:25 <Zakim> ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:34 <Ralph> Meeting RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
15:59:38 <Ralph> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
16:00:02 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Jan/0003.html
16:00:18 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-12-20
16:00:28 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public
16:00:47 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
16:00:54 <Zakim> +??P4
16:01:05 <msporny> zakim, i am ??P4
16:01:05 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
16:01:28 <Zakim> +Ralph
16:01:32 <Zakim> -msporny
16:01:33 <Zakim> +msporny
16:03:22 <Zakim> +McCarron
16:04:28 <Ralph> Regrets: Michael, Mark
16:04:40 <Ralph> Regrets+ Simone
16:05:46 <benadida> benadida has joined #rdfa
16:06:24 <Ralph> Manu: I think Ivan is suggesting that @instanceof does apply to @resource in some cases
16:06:27 <Zakim> +benadida
16:06:46 <Ralph> ... whereas Ben and I think it is simpler if @instanceof never applies to @resource
16:06:50 <Ralph> s/Ivan/Mark and Ivan/
16:07:08 <Ralph> Shane: I interpret Mark's argument as saying @instanceof applies to the subject
16:07:50 <Ralph> Ben: where Mark splits @rel and @resource, I don't see a use case
16:08:37 <Ralph> s/ and Ivan//
16:09:10 <Ralph> Ben: I'm concerned about multiple ways of expressing the same thing unless it enables a new use case
16:09:45 <Ralph> Regrets+ Steven
16:10:34 <Ralph> Topic: Action Review
16:11:43 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to propose a solution for running tests locally [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
16:11:59 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to update primer to remove Libby's email address [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
16:12:08 <Ralph> Ben: I looked and didn't find it in the Primer
16:12:18 <Ralph> Manu: was a blanket action; it's definitely in the Syntax doc
16:13:21 <Ralph> ACTION: Manu to change Libby's email address to Michael's in all test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
16:13:28 <Ralph> --continues
16:13:39 <Ralph> Manu: only appears in test 19; I've sent mail to Michael
16:13:48 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Manu to check for BASE test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
16:14:32 <Ralph> Manu: I've proposed two tests, but apparently we previously resolved to not support xml:base (test73)
16:14:41 <Ralph> ... test72 uses @base
16:14:50 <Ralph> ACTION: Shane to update syntax doc to remove Libby's email address (and replace it with Michael's) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
16:14:52 <Ralph> -- continues
16:15:35 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
16:15:38 <Ralph> -- continues
16:15:47 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
16:15:58 <Ralph> Ben: Michael has volunteered to work on the implementation report
16:16:02 <Ralph> ... on the wiki
16:16:14 <Ralph> ... so rdfa.info might point to or copy the wiki
16:16:18 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to respond to comment on follow-your-nose [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
16:16:20 <Ralph> -- continues
16:16:27 <Ralph> Ben: draft under discussion
16:17:23 <Ralph> Shane: Mark wants the resource at the profile URI to be something useful
16:18:07 <Ralph> ... I've said this several times too; it's just a matter of getting it done
16:18:32 <Ralph> ... he'd also like to see the resource be content-negotiated
16:19:02 <Ralph> ... and he suggests we also support the GRDDL alternative of <LINK rel='transform'>
16:19:28 <Ralph> Ben: but GRDDL's XHTML mechanism is @profile
16:19:59 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
16:20:01 <Ralph> -- continues
16:20:17 <Ralph> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
16:20:18 <Ralph> -- continues
16:20:23 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph followup with Dublin Core on what's going on with their namespace URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
16:20:24 <Ralph> -- continues
16:20:57 <Ralph> [SWDWG] ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03]
16:21:07 <Ralph> Ben: I've done a draft implementation report
16:21:15 <Ralph> [SWDWG] ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule in wiki http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action04]
16:21:25 <Ralph> Ben: I've updated the schedule
16:21:40 <Ralph> [SWDWG] ACTION: Ben and Michael to address comments by Tom [regarding maintenance of wiki document http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05]
16:22:40 <Ralph> -- continues
16:23:05 <Zakim> -McCarron
16:23:07 <Zakim> +ShaneM
16:23:29 <Ralph> Topic: @src
16:24:18 <Ralph> Ben: defer decision until more folk are present
16:24:40 <Ralph> Topic: latest Syntax editors' draft
16:24:51 <Ralph> Manu: I have some feedback, which I'll put in mail
16:24:54 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
16:24:58 <Ralph> ... it's becoming a long document
16:25:16 <Ralph> ... looks good at a high level; I need more time to look at the detail
16:25:26 <Ralph> ... it says what I thought we'd all agreed on
16:26:18 <Ralph> ... outstanding issues; @instanceof applying to @resource, changing email addresses, dpedia examples use p: as namespace prefix which might confuse some readers
16:26:54 <Ralph> Ben: I looked at the editors' draft and think it's coming together nicely.  Also have some small examples
16:26:58 <Ralph> s/examples/comments
16:27:42 <Ralph> Topic: test cases
16:27:51 <msporny> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Jan/0004.html
16:28:00 <Ralph> -- test 71
16:28:57 <Ralph> a triple can be generated even if @instanceof and @about is not specified anywhere in the document.
16:29:14 <Ralph> Manu: @href @rel with nothing else generates a triple
16:29:56 <Ralph> Ben: the test is not wrong but it's different from the Creative Commons recommendation
16:30:20 <Ralph> ... so could we add another that uses @rel='license' per the CC recommendation?
16:30:32 <Ralph> Manu: happy to do that once 'license' is in the reserved list
16:30:42 <Ralph> Shane: tell me to add 'license' to the reserved list
16:30:43 <Ralph> [done]
16:31:41 <Ralph> Ben: does SPARQL require whitespace before '.'?
16:32:25 <msporny> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Jan/0005.html
16:32:29 <Ralph> RESOLVED: test 71 accepted, pending confirmation of SPARQL whitespace rules
16:32:32 <Ralph> -- test 72
16:32:59 <Ralph> BASE with relative URIs
16:34:53 <Ralph> Ben: recommend dropping '#' for simplification; it's not necessary here
16:35:22 <Ralph> RESOLVED: test 72 accepted, removing unnecessary '#'
16:35:57 <msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/
16:36:22 <Ralph> Manu: we still have some whitespace canonicalization issues
16:36:37 <Ralph> ... test 11 fails under some implementations and passes under others
16:37:20 <Ralph> ... the current test strips all whitespace in the SPARQL but that's not strictly correct per the XHTML rules
16:38:04 <Ralph> ... we could fix this by stripping the whitespace in the HTML
16:38:18 <Ralph> Ralph: the point of this test was not to test whitespace rules, but rather to test XMLliteral
16:38:37 <Ralph> Ben: to test whitespace we could use the XPath whitespace function in the SPARQL
16:39:29 <Ralph> Manu: I'm not sure that it would be correct to create a new test using the XPath function
16:40:00 <Ralph> Ben: it's just a way to write a test that is independent of the parser implementation w.r.t. whitespace preservation
16:40:23 <Ralph> Topic: Schedule
16:40:33 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule schedule
16:41:25 <Ralph> Ben: I'd like us to reach agreement to have an editors' draft for the SWD WG to review by their Jan 15 telecon
16:41:31 <Ralph> ... that's agressive
16:41:42 <Ralph> ... so please get comments to Mark and Shane by this weekend
16:42:17 <msporny> Did I get disconnected?
16:43:05 <Ralph> Ben: the only open issue we're discussing is the @resource thread in email
16:43:07 <msporny> 'me sees that his link is dying....
16:44:58 <Ralph> Topic: HTML element
16:45:18 <Ralph> Shane: Ivan observed that the RDFa attributes are not permitted on <HTML>
16:45:25 <Ralph> ... should this be permitted?
16:45:36 <Ralph> Manu: in one test case I wanted to say "there's a person, me, at this address"
16:45:47 <Ralph> ... e.g. example.org/shane
16:45:57 <Ralph> ... is there a way to set the type of a document as a Person?
16:46:20 <Ralph> ... can you declare the rdf:type of what you're linking to?
16:46:25 <Ralph> Ben: no way currently
16:46:56 <Ralph> ... if you're linking something with a typed relationship, the type of the object might be deducible
16:46:56 <msporny> <a about="#me" rel="foaf:knows" href="http://example.org/shane">shane is here</a>
16:47:24 <msporny> <html instanceof="foaf:Person">...</html>
16:47:45 <Ralph> Ben: we permit @instanceof on <HEAD>
16:48:09 <Ralph> Manu: so if permitted on <HEAD>, why not also on <HTML>
16:48:19 <Ralph> Shane: I don't think there would be any parser ramifications
16:48:48 <Ralph> ... the HTML WG has never extended the HTML element except for @@
16:48:56 <Ralph> ... HTML doesn't have @id or @class
16:49:20 <Ralph> Ben: consistency is nice, but let's defer to the HTML WG
16:50:14 <Ralph> Shane: in my opinion it would be find for <HTML> to permit the RDFa attributes as well as @id and @class; let's see what the HTML WG wants to do
16:50:17 <Zakim> -msporny
16:50:18 <Ralph> [adjourned]
16:50:18 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:50:23 <Zakim> -benadida
16:50:24 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:50:25 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:50:26 <Zakim> Attendees were msporny, Ralph, McCarron, benadida, ShaneM
16:52:04 <benadida> benadida has left #rdfa
16:52:14 <Ralph> s/@@/@lang
16:58:24 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:58:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph
16:59:51 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-actions.rdf :
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to change Libby's email address to Michael's in all test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action05] [1]
16:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc#T16-13-21
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to update syntax doc to remove Libby's email address (and replace it with Michael's) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [2]
16:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc#T16-14-50
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [3]
16:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc#T16-15-35
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [4]
16:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc#T16-15-47
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to respond to comment on follow-your-nose [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [5]
16:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc#T16-16-18
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [6]
16:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc#T16-19-59
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [7]
16:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc#T16-20-17
16:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph followup with Dublin Core on what's going on with their namespace URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [8]
16:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/03-rdfa-irc#T16-20-23
16:59:53 <Ralph> zakim, bye
16:59:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa