IRC log of owl on 2008-01-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:57:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #owl
17:57:04 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/02-owl-irc
17:57:06 [bijan2]
uhm
17:57:17 [bmotik]
You have to do /invite Zakim
17:57:17 [bijan2]
Ok, you did the /invite thing right?
17:57:23 [bijan2]
Ok, you did the /invite thing right?I wonder why that didn't work for me
17:57:23 [jjc]
jjc has joined #owl
17:57:27 [bijan2]
I was doing i t:)
17:57:35 [Rinke]
Rinke has joined #owl
17:57:39 [pfps]
pfps has joined #owl
17:57:54 [bijan]
zakim, this is owl
17:57:54 [Zakim]
ok, bijan; that matches SW_OWL()12:00PM
17:58:17 [Zakim]
+Rinke
17:58:27 [Zhe]
Zhe has joined #owl
17:58:36 [bijan]
zakim, who is here?
17:58:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P9, Rinke
17:58:37 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng
17:58:46 [bijan]
zakim, ??P9 is me
17:58:46 [Zakim]
+bijan; got it
17:58:47 [Zakim]
+??P12
17:58:56 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
17:58:56 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
17:59:01 [sandro]
sandro has joined #owl
17:59:05 [Zakim]
+??P13
17:59:06 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
17:59:07 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
17:59:15 [sandro]
RRSAgent, pointer?
17:59:15 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/02-owl-irc#T17-59-15
17:59:15 [msmith]
msmith has joined #owl
17:59:21 [bmotik]
Zakim, ??p13 is me
17:59:21 [Zakim]
+bmotik; got it
17:59:21 [IanH]
IanH has joined #owl
17:59:24 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
17:59:24 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
17:59:36 [Zakim]
+Sandro
17:59:47 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
17:59:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, ??P12, bmotik, Sandro
17:59:47 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
17:59:48 [Zakim]
On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng
17:59:50 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
18:00:01 [IanH]
zakim, ??P12 is IanH
18:00:01 [Zakim]
+IanH; got it
18:00:04 [Zakim]
+msmith
18:00:22 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:00:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith
18:00:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng
18:00:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.253.aaaa
18:01:09 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:01:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa
18:01:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng
18:01:26 [alanr]
alanr has joined #owl
18:01:44 [alanr]
zakim, who is here?
18:01:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa
18:01:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng
18:01:52 [alanr]
zakim, aaaa is me
18:01:52 [Zakim]
+alanr; got it
18:02:13 [Zakim]
+??P1
18:02:21 [jjc]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
18:02:21 [Zakim]
+jjc; got it
18:02:26 [jjc]
Zakim, mute me
18:02:26 [Zakim]
jjc should now be muted
18:02:46 [Zakim]
+Zhe
18:03:10 [Zhe]
zakim, who is here?
18:03:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe
18:03:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng
18:04:24 [Rinke]
or Zhe?
18:04:33 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
18:04:33 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
18:04:40 [Zakim]
+??P17
18:04:50 [pfps]
zakim, ??P17 is me
18:04:50 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
18:05:22 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:05:22 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:05:42 [bijan]
Scribe: Bijan Parsia
18:05:48 [bijan]
Scribenick: bijan
18:05:54 [pfps]
is that an action on Zhe?
18:06:03 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
18:06:03 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
18:06:20 [bijan]
TOPIC: Admin
18:06:28 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:06:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe, pfps (muted)
18:06:30 [Zakim]
On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng
18:06:49 [Elisa]
Elisa has joined #owl
18:06:58 [bijan]
Agenda amendment: Discussion of short name issues
18:07:17 [sandro]
Present: bijan, Rinke, IanH, bmotik, Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc, Zhe, pfps
18:07:41 [Zakim]
+Elisa_Kendall
18:07:57 [bijan]
Meeting: OWL Working Group Teleconference
18:08:02 [bijan]
Chair: Ian Horrocks
18:09:11 [bijan]
Alan: I closed Issue 13 so can be removed from the agenda
18:09:36 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:09:36 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
18:09:40 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:09:40 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:09:42 [pfps]
q+
18:09:50 [IanH]
q?
18:10:03 [alanr]
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2007.12.19/Minutes
18:10:14 [bijan]
Ian: We're going to be much stricter about enforcing the time limits for discussion listed in the agenda. If you think more time is needed for some item, propose so during the agenda amendments portion of the Admin topics.
18:10:19 [msmith]
also, the previous minutes cleanup was *just* finished
18:10:28 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:10:28 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:10:30 [bijan]
Ian: Otherwise, if we run over, it'll go to email.
18:10:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.518.608.aabb
18:10:43 [bijan]
Topic: Previous minutes
18:11:04 [sandro]
IRC log from Dec 19 http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-owl-irc is now public.
18:11:06 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:11:06 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:11:06 [bijan]
Peter: The irc log wasn't public, so we can't accept yet.
18:11:13 [bijan]
Sandro: we'll take it off line
18:11:13 [dlm]
dlm has joined #owl
18:11:19 [bijan]
Rinke: What about F2F minutes?
18:11:33 [dlm]
hi - I just joined on the phone as well
18:11:43 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:11:43 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:11:51 [bijan]
Some discussion between Peter and Ian about F2F minutes.
18:12:11 [bijan]
Ian: We'll ask people to review them again and put them on the agenda for next week
18:12:47 [bijan]
ACTION: Ian to send email reminding people to review the F2F minutes for next week and to put an item on next week's agenda
18:12:47 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-59 - Send email reminding people to review the F2F minutes for next week and to put an item on next week's agenda [on Ian Horrocks - due 2008-01-09].
18:12:47 [jjc]
i am
18:12:48 [pfps]
jeremy has done this adequately
18:12:59 [jjc]
yes
18:13:00 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:13:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe, pfps (muted), Elisa_Kendall, +1.518.608.aabb
18:13:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dlm, Elisa, alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng
18:13:11 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute me
18:13:11 [Zakim]
jjc should no longer be muted
18:13:35 [bijan]
TOPIC: Action item review
18:14:01 [bijan]
ACTION-47 delcared accomplished by Jeremy
18:14:24 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
18:14:24 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
18:14:30 [IanH]
q?
18:14:46 [alanr]
Which reminds: Agenda item - quick check in about having UFDTF documentation meeting this coming monday at usual schedule.
18:15:59 [bijan]
ACTION-38 continued until next week
18:16:33 [bijan]
ACTION-39 continued until imports task force
18:16:36 [bijan]
contineu
18:16:59 [bijan]
ACTION-42 continued until next week
18:17:28 [pfps]
I think that Sandro has done the action
18:19:18 [bijan]
ACTION-44 pretty much done; close when docs are published
18:20:31 [bijan]
ACTION-45 dependant on Sandro's Test related action
18:21:01 [bijan]
ACTION 51 continued until next week
18:22:34 [bijan]
ACTION-53 progress has been made
18:22:55 [IanH]
q?
18:22:59 [Zakim]
+jim
18:23:03 [pfps]
q-
18:23:08 [bijan]
Sandro: I have an internal target of next Tues.
18:23:29 [pfps]
but the content is already available for review - why the serialization
18:23:33 [hendler]
hendler has joined #owl
18:23:43 [bijan]
alanr: We have a procedure wherein the chairs take a week
18:23:58 [bijan]
sandro: Why not parallelize the review?
18:24:20 [bijan]
general acclaim and agreement from IanH and alanr
18:24:51 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
18:24:51 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
18:25:20 [bmotik]
Zakim, jim is hendler
18:25:20 [Zakim]
+hendler; got it
18:25:53 [bijan]
alanr: some issues with status
18:26:08 [bijan]
sandro: some issues with abstract
18:26:25 [pfps]
I like the way the abstracts read.
18:27:12 [alanr]
q+
18:27:15 [bijan]
jim: I don't like the abstracts
18:27:17 [IanH]
q?
18:27:20 [bijan]
q+
18:28:01 [bijan]
alanr: We shouldn't touch the abstracts now. Jim can file an issue and then we'll link to the issue.
18:28:12 [bijan]
s/jim/hendler/
18:28:15 [IanH]
q?
18:28:17 [jjc]
q+ to suggest Jim does a review after publication
18:28:19 [alanr]
ack alanr
18:28:27 [bijan]
hendler: it's a document review issue not a content issue.
18:28:51 [hendler]
q+ re abstract and status
18:29:10 [bijan]
IanH: We're just acting on the resolution of the F2F and the current text is already agreed to.
18:29:12 [alanr]
+1 to no changes now.
18:29:18 [IanH]
q?
18:29:19 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
18:29:19 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
18:29:21 [bmotik]
+1 to no changes now
18:29:37 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
18:29:37 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
18:29:40 [jjc]
ack jjc
18:29:40 [Zakim]
jjc, you wanted to suggest Jim does a review after publication
18:29:40 [IanH]
q?
18:29:52 [alanr]
q+ to address status of this document
18:29:53 [sandro]
Sandro: I apologize for bringing up the edit-the-abstract question -- it's out of order for right now.
18:29:57 [bijan]
sandro: whoops, I was sorta out of order
18:30:15 [IanH]
q?
18:30:21 [bijan]
jjc: review after publication, but yes, we're off order
18:30:27 [bijan]
q-
18:30:33 [alanr]
ack hendler
18:30:33 [Zakim]
hendler, you wanted to comment re abstract and status
18:30:38 [IanH]
q?
18:30:58 [bijan]
hendler: I withdraw on abstract, but I have qualms about status.
18:31:18 [alanr]
status of this document is perogative of w3c team liason
18:31:19 [jjc]
Jeremy-to-jim: the status belongs to W3C staff contact not the WG
18:31:27 [bijan]
IanH: Status is not done.
18:31:37 [IanH]
q?
18:31:41 [alanr]
ack alanr
18:31:41 [Zakim]
alanr, you wanted to address status of this document
18:31:45 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:31:45 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
18:31:49 [bijan]
hendler: We've approved a document without knowing what it is? Don't we need to review that text?
18:32:20 [hendler]
+1 to alanr re: status
18:32:21 [bijan]
IanH: No..as jeremey pointed out, status is a team contact thing not a wg thing
18:32:27 [bijan]
alanr: though feedback is welcome
18:32:56 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
18:32:56 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
18:33:10 [alanr]
q?
18:34:15 [pfps]
pfps has joined #owl
18:34:47 [IanH]
q?
18:34:55 [bijan]
ACTION-56 continued until next week
18:35:19 [bijan]
ACTION-55 is closed
18:35:20 [IanH]
q?
18:35:32 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:35:32 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:36:18 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:36:18 [Zakim]
pfps was not muted, pfps
18:36:24 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:36:24 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:36:31 [alanr]
+1
18:36:31 [IanH]
q?
18:36:38 [bijan]
TOPIC: Proposals to resolve issues
18:36:39 [bmotik]
+1
18:36:45 [Rinke]
+1 to merge
18:36:47 [pfps]
+1 to reject 20
18:36:58 [bijan]
Merge issue 20 into 16
18:37:01 [jjc]
concur
18:37:18 [bijan]
IanH: WE'll reject issue 20 for issue 16
18:37:33 [IanH]
q?
18:37:37 [alanr]
+1
18:37:44 [hendler]
+1
18:37:46 [bmotik]
+1
18:37:47 [pfps]
+1 to consider 43 accomplished
18:37:50 [msmith]
+1
18:38:11 [bijan]
IanH: ISSUE-43 is resolved
18:39:02 [IanH]
PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 13 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html (see Section 4.2 of Syntax)
18:39:14 [pfps]
no - this had been done
18:39:28 [pfps]
q+
18:39:33 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:39:33 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:39:44 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:39:44 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:39:57 [IanH]
RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 13 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html (see Section 4.2 of Syntax)
18:40:10 [IanH]
PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 20 and absorb it into Issue 16
18:40:13 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:40:13 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:41:16 [alanr]
Already resolved: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html
18:41:20 [alanr]
officially
18:42:59 [IanH]
PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 20 and absorb it into Issue 16
18:43:08 [sandro]
+0
18:43:10 [IanH]
objectons?
18:43:11 [pfps]
+1 to reject
18:43:15 [bmotik]
+1
18:43:20 [Rinke]
+1
18:43:27 [bijan]
+1
18:43:41 [alanr]
Re: Issue 55, +1 to close, but resolution would not be Peter's email, rather further action as voted up during f2f. Method of accomplishing is yet to be determined.
18:44:08 [IanH]
RESOLVED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 20 and absorb it into Issue 16
18:44:35 [IanH]
PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 43 as per email http://www.w3.org/mid/BDC59251-1FB7-4F70-8900-E7E38FC86BA4%2540comlab.ox.ac.uk
18:45:02 [sandro]
+0
18:45:06 [pfps]
+1 to resolve
18:45:21 [bmotik]
+1 to resolve as proposed
18:45:39 [alanr]
+1 (agree with stronger statement)
18:45:46 [IanH]
RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 43 as per email http://www.w3.org/mid/BDC59251-1FB7-4F70-8900-E7E38FC86BA4%2540comlab.ox.ac.uk issue is already addressed by OWL 1.1
18:46:01 [msmith]
+1 to close as resolved
18:46:02 [alanr]
+1
18:46:05 [hendler]
+1
18:46:11 [IanH]
PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 55 as per email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0188.html
18:46:21 [hendler]
q+ re: issue 55
18:46:26 [alanr]
q+
18:46:28 [IanH]
q?
18:46:29 [pfps]
q-
18:46:36 [pfps]
q-
18:46:54 [alanr]
ack
18:46:55 [IanH]
ack sees
18:46:59 [hendler]
q- re:
18:47:04 [hendler]
q- issue
18:47:06 [alanr]
q- issue
18:47:08 [hendler]
q- 55
18:47:19 [IanH]
q- sees
18:47:20 [hendler]
q+ to discuss issue 55
18:47:36 [IanH]
ack alanr
18:48:15 [IanH]
q?
18:48:23 [bijan]
alanr: Reiterating what I posted in IRC. We agreed that some sort of effort by the working group to allow more RDF into OWL is a good idea, but I don't want the specific solution of Peter to be part of the resolution since this is an ongoing thing.
18:48:59 [IanH]
q?
18:49:21 [bmotik]
q+
18:49:34 [bijan]
hendler: RPI will official object to rejecting but will abstain to postponed.
18:49:38 [IanH]
q?
18:49:49 [jjc]
q+ to suggest otu of scope
18:49:51 [pfps]
q+
18:49:59 [IanH]
ack hendler
18:49:59 [Zakim]
hendler, you wanted to discuss issue 55
18:50:06 [alanr]
I don't mind postponing, personally
18:50:10 [bijan]
IanH: I believe I saw that email but I wanted more detail.
18:50:24 [jjc]
+1 to jim
18:50:42 [bijan]
hendler: I don't want to say that this will never be fixed.
18:50:56 [alanr]
+1, Ian. Let's table it, and not take the queue
18:50:57 [IanH]
q?
18:51:22 [IanH]
q?
18:51:23 [bmotik]
q-
18:51:25 [alanr]
in the interest of time, request to not take up the issue
18:51:27 [bijan]
IanH: pretty clear that we won't resolve this as it is proposed to be resolved, so we should put it back to the email
18:51:33 [pfps]
q-
18:51:36 [jjc]
q-
18:51:50 [bijan]
alanr: and will go to issue discussion for next week
18:51:59 [IanH]
PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 83 as per email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0028.html
18:52:28 [IanH]
Adjourned to next week
18:52:37 [bijan]
Depends on an open action
18:52:55 [jjc]
(not adjourned .... a meeting gets adjourned ...)!!
18:52:57 [bmotik]
Regarding ISSUE-55: At the F2F we said that we might produce a document with typical repairs that might allow for more RDF into OWL. IMHO, the distinction between owl:Class and rdfs:Class should be handled there.
18:53:16 [bijan]
Topic: agenda amendement item: Short name issue
18:53:19 [IanH]
q?
18:54:29 [IanH]
q?
18:55:13 [bijan]
sandro: [reluctantly] There is a uri for each document with a date embedded, but there is also a "short name" or "latest uri". Problem: does the owl (1.1) semantics override the old one? Where will people want to end up 5 years from now
18:55:31 [alanr]
q+
18:55:46 [IanH]
q?
18:56:19 [IanH]
q?
18:56:28 [bijan]
IanH: That's clear, but it would be strange if people wanted to go to the older semantics.
18:56:49 [IanH]
q?
18:56:50 [bijan]
alanr: but isn't this exactly why we went for the owl11 short name? So that we wouldn't shadow?
18:57:20 [hendler]
q+ is this maybe something to raise in status section?
18:57:20 [bijan]
IanH: How irrevocable is the current decision wrt recommendation?
18:57:30 [IanH]
q?
18:57:30 [msmith]
at the f2f it was pointed out the working draft shouldn't shadow the 1.0 docs, and we had to avoid that
18:57:31 [jjc]
+1 to Ian
18:57:34 [alanr]
ack
18:57:38 [alanr]
ack alanr
18:57:42 [hendler]
q+to ask is this maybe something to raise in status section?
18:58:19 [bijan]
sandro: [still reluctantly] The current drafts will contain a latest draft url and we need to do right by that. But it's still flexible.
18:58:22 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:58:22 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:58:30 [bijan]
IanH: well, we can't shadow recs with our current *drafts*
18:58:57 [alanr]
IIRC we *can* change short name later, but it is a pain.
18:58:58 [bijan]
hendler: There are different documents. Syntax and semantics seem intended to shadow S&AS, but other documents may be additive.
18:59:03 [IanH]
q?
18:59:06 [pfps]
the syntax doc is not a replacement for S&AS as it has neither the RDF mapping nor any formal semantics
18:59:10 [alanr]
My guess is that pain is preferable to resolution now
18:59:41 [bijan]
IanH: We can weasal like minks and avoid committing now.
19:00:25 [bijan]
sandro: It's not clear that we can. Whatever draft we publish will have urls that change overtime but we need to make sure we manage that change sensibly
19:01:00 [sandro]
"owl11-semantics" or "owl-semantics-latest-draft" or "owl1-semantics"
19:01:05 [bijan]
... E.g., syntax and semantics documents point to each other...but I think maybe it's ok.
19:01:25 [bijan]
alanr: isn't htis what we resolved in the f2f
19:01:28 [bmotik]
+1 to owl11-semantics
19:01:51 [sandro]
"owl-semantics"
19:02:10 [msmith]
can we get around this like html? e.g. there is latest version of html and latest version of html4. xhtml 1.0 shadows html, but not html4
19:02:46 [IanH]
q?
19:02:50 [bijan]
sandro: But there's new information. We can't use owl-semantics since that would make our drafts shadow recs (BAD WEASAL). "owl-semantics-latest-draft" is very future proof and handy
19:02:53 [msmith]
+1 for sandro and alanr to settle this
19:02:58 [pfps]
just get it done something this millenium :-)
19:03:00 [alanr]
Alan says team-owl-chairs will resolve
19:03:18 [bijan]
+1 to sandro and alanr handling
19:03:35 [IanH]
q?
19:03:38 [jjc]
q+ to suggest e-mail 24 hr review
19:03:39 [hendler]
ack
19:03:46 [jjc]
ack me#
19:03:49 [bijan]
IanH: Yet another chair complaining about IRC comments with preference for people going to speaker queue
19:03:49 [jjc]
ack me
19:03:50 [Zakim]
jjc, you wanted to suggest e-mail 24 hr review
19:03:52 [IanH]
q?
19:04:03 [hendler]
+1 to jjc
19:04:28 [bijan]
jjc: Once sandro has the solution can he give us 24 hours review?
19:04:38 [sandro]
24 hours == 1 business day
19:04:40 [alanr]
24 hours review if not owl11
19:04:42 [bijan]
alanr: can we make it only if short name owl11
19:04:52 [bijan]
jjc: yes
19:05:00 [IanH]
q?
19:05:08 [bijan]
q- hendler
19:05:13 [IanH]
ack hendler
19:05:16 [IanH]
q?
19:06:06 [bijan]
Topic: Raised Issues
19:06:18 [bijan]
Issue 90 class and property deprecation
19:06:27 [IanH]
q?
19:06:55 [bijan]
Rinke: These are in OWL 1.0 but not in OWL 1.1 docs, so we should deal with it.
19:07:07 [alanr]
q+ to ask whether anyone ever found this useful?
19:07:31 [pfps]
q+
19:07:37 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
19:07:37 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
19:07:39 [IanH]
q?
19:08:04 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:08:04 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
19:08:17 [alanr]
q?
19:08:21 [alanr]
ack alanr
19:08:21 [Zakim]
alanr, you wanted to ask whether anyone ever found this useful?
19:08:25 [alanr]
+1 to open
19:08:26 [pfps]
q-
19:08:28 [IanH]
q?
19:08:33 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:08:33 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
19:08:48 [bijan]
IanH: we'll open Issue-90
19:09:06 [alanr]
+1 to open
19:09:32 [bijan]
Issue 91 ontology properties
19:09:59 [bmotik]
q+
19:10:02 [alanr]
there is another issue re: meaning
19:10:06 [bmotik]
ack bmotik
19:10:06 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:10:08 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
19:10:11 [bijan]
Rinke: Boris and I talked about this and some properties are now annotation properties but what do they mean?
19:10:22 [jjc]
q+ to support this as issue
19:10:26 [IanH]
q?
19:10:27 [alanr]
q+ to explain meaning
19:10:47 [bijan]
boirs: What do you mean by meaning? In the old spec they didn't have meaning either.
19:10:49 [bijan]
q+
19:10:52 [alanr]
question before us is whether to open
19:10:59 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
19:10:59 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
19:11:07 [IanH]
q?
19:11:07 [alanr]
Discussion indicates we should open
19:11:33 [alanr]
q- alanr
19:11:42 [bijan]
Rinke: I'm ok with that but the documentation says something informal about it. We should proprogate (or at least discuss) these issues
19:11:47 [alanr]
don't need and don't want
19:11:52 [bijan]
IanH: Seems like there is some issue to discuss
19:11:58 [bijan]
q- bijan
19:12:03 [jjc]
q-
19:12:05 [jjc]
boring
19:12:09 [IanH]
q?
19:12:29 [bijan]
IanH: so we should take it up. Issue-90 is open
19:12:35 [bmotik]
Rinke, could you perhaps additionally point to what kind of "meaning" has been lost in OWL 1.1?
19:12:42 [alanr]
q+
19:12:52 [bijan]
TOPIC: Resolved Editorial Issues
19:13:02 [alanr]
-1 to resolve as there is no pointer to diff
19:13:20 [bmotik]
Zakim, unmute me
19:13:20 [Zakim]
bmotik should no longer be muted
19:14:40 [bijan]
boris: the change was in the diagrams. How do I diff diagrams?
19:14:56 [pfps]
q+
19:15:00 [IanH]
q?
19:15:08 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
19:15:08 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
19:15:14 [alanr]
q- alanr
19:15:26 [Rinke]
Boris, about your issue-91 question: I'll put it in an email, ok?
19:15:26 [jjc]
q+ to support boris
19:15:33 [bmotik]
+1 to peter!
19:15:45 [bmotik]
q+
19:16:02 [jjc]
+1 to pfps
19:16:39 [IanH]
q?
19:17:00 [bijan]
pfps: It's unreasonable to demand stuff that the tools foisted on the editors esp. if it's post facto
19:17:15 [IanH]
q?
19:17:20 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute me
19:17:20 [Zakim]
jjc should no longer be muted
19:17:32 [bijan]
IanH: Peter do you object to *this* diff requriment or any requirement for diffs
19:17:33 [IanH]
q?
19:17:44 [pfps]
q-
19:17:59 [bijan]
some chatter between alanr and pfps
19:18:28 [IanH]
q?
19:18:35 [IanH]
ack jjc
19:18:35 [Zakim]
jjc, you wanted to support boris
19:18:58 [bijan]
jjc: I support Peter. The key audit point is publication, not editors draft. So there is no need for this extra fine grained diff requirements.
19:18:59 [alanr]
I would agree to 1/2 hour being burden. Let's pass on this one and discuss for future.
19:19:13 [sandro]
??? But the wiki is HTML
19:19:22 [alanr]
I don't believe this is burden, but we don't have to resolve now. I'm hearing what is said.
19:19:42 [alanr]
But misinformation re difficulty is not reasonable to me.
19:19:51 [IanH]
q?
19:20:09 [pfps]
q+
19:20:14 [IanH]
q?
19:20:47 [bmotik]
q-
19:21:05 [bijan]
alanr: I'd like to resolve this issue but not to accept rejection of the procedure. I think it's not hard (in principle) but needs to be better documented
19:21:07 [alanr]
Action: Alan to document how to diff images.
19:21:07 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-60 - Document how to diff images. [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-01-09].
19:21:19 [bijan]
q+
19:21:30 [IanH]
q?
19:21:53 [IanH]
ack pfps
19:22:27 [bijan]
pfps: I'm not convinced that alan is the person should be made happy. The WG needs to be made happy.
19:22:29 [IanH]
q?
19:22:43 [pfps]
q-
19:22:43 [jjc]
q+ to mention history mechanism http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Syntax&diff=2108&oldid=2052
19:23:02 [bijan]
sandro: Is anyone else supportive of alanr technique?
19:23:15 [alanr]
We already agreed to text diffs
19:23:25 [bijan]
hendler: yes, probably will be helpful later
19:23:28 [pfps]
text diffs - when
19:23:52 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:23:52 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
19:23:58 [alanr]
q+
19:24:08 [alanr]
Agree to easy. What is considered easy?
19:24:10 [IanH]
q?
19:24:20 [bmotik]
+1 to jjc
19:24:20 [alanr]
q- jjc
19:24:35 [bijan]
jjc: sometimes it is easy to provide a diff. Boris's point was that it was hard in this case. When it is easy, we should encourage (not require) them to do it.
19:24:46 [IanH]
q?
19:25:22 [alanr]
ack bijan
19:25:43 [bijan]
bijan: Are we providing change logs?
19:25:43 [IanH]
q?
19:25:51 [IanH]
ack alanr
19:25:56 [bijan]
IanH: we don't need them now, right? First draft?
19:26:05 [jjc]
q+ to suggest change log *requirement* is from Last Call
19:26:07 [pfps]
q+
19:26:09 [sandro]
Sandro: We probably should have provided a change-log from the Submission....
19:26:24 [bijan]
sandro: might be nice to have one from the submission
19:26:41 [pfps]
q-
19:26:48 [sandro]
(I could produce an HTML diff from the submission...... that would be interesting to see.)
19:27:06 [jjc]
q-
19:27:06 [bijan]
alanr: I think that the change log could be most easily generated from issues whose resolution has a diff pointer
19:27:08 [pfps]
OK
19:27:43 [bijan]
alanr: This is a chairs issue not a wg issue
19:28:41 [IanH]
q?
19:29:23 [IanH]
q?
19:30:15 [IanH]
PROPOSED: close issue 49
19:30:26 [jjc]
+1
19:30:27 [pfps]
+1 let's nuke this baby
19:30:27 [hendler]
+1
19:30:31 [bmotik]
+1
19:30:34 [Rinke]
+1 to close
19:30:34 [bijan]
+1 for the love of god
19:30:35 [Elisa]
+1
19:30:42 [IanH]
RESOLVED: close issue 49
19:30:43 [Zhe]
+1
19:30:44 [msmith]
+1
19:31:18 [Zakim]
-alanr
19:31:19 [Zakim]
-Zhe
19:31:19 [Zakim]
-hendler
19:31:20 [Zakim]
-Elisa_Kendall
19:31:20 [Zakim]
-msmith
19:31:21 [Zakim]
-Sandro
19:31:22 [Rinke]
bye
19:31:23 [Zakim]
-bmotik
19:31:24 [Zakim]
- +1.518.608.aabb
19:31:26 [Zakim]
-Rinke
19:31:28 [Zakim]
-bijan
19:31:31 [msmith]
msmith has left #owl
19:31:37 [sandro]
bijan, would you like me put the draft minutes in the wiki now?
19:31:42 [Zakim]
-IanH
19:31:45 [bijan]
Please!
19:32:30 [Zakim]
-jjc
19:33:24 [sandro]
okay, working on it.
19:33:51 [Zakim]
-pfps
19:33:52 [Zakim]
SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
19:33:54 [Zakim]
Attendees were Rinke, bijan, bmotik, Sandro, IanH, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa, alanr, jjc, Zhe, pfps, Elisa_Kendall, +1.518.608.aabb, hendler
19:43:22 [sandro]
sorry for the delay, Bijan, my script wasn't happy about the log stretching over a year boundary. duh.
19:43:39 [alanr]
alanr has left #owl
19:46:34 [sandro]
Okay, Bijan. Ready for you, I think. http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.02/Minutes
20:01:10 [bijan]
thx
20:02:15 [bijan]
sandro, I think lots of people who called in are missing
20:02:27 [bijan]
Jim and Deb and Elisa come to mind
20:02:55 [bijan]
I guess I just have to go through manually and add them?
20:03:20 [sandro]
This is based on the people who were on when Ian called attendance. I didn't pay attention after that. Yeah, I guess do it by hand.
20:03:31 [bijan]
Ok
20:03:36 [bijan]
zakim doesn't h ave a memory, eh?
20:08:20 [bijan]
sandro, the log is not accessible
20:08:38 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make record public
20:08:42 [sandro]
that should do it.
20:08:51 [bijan]
yep, thanks
21:43:13 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #owl