Chatlog 2009-06-10

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<MartinD> PRESENT: MartinD, zimmer, Ivan, IanH, MarkusK_, Sandro, baojie, bcuencagrau, pfps, Rinke, Zhe, msmith, Achille, christine
<MartinD> CHAIR: IanH
<MartinD> REGRETS: Michael_Schneider

16:41:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #owl
16:41:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-owl-irc
16:41:37 <MartinD> ScribeNick: MartinD
16:42:53 <MartinD> MartinD has joined #OWL
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16:48:41 <sandro> zakim, this will be owl
16:48:41 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
16:49:20 <MartinD> RRSagent, make records public
16:49:53 <ivan> ivan has joined #owl
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16:54:44 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
16:54:51 <Zakim> + +0190827aaaa
16:55:00 <MartinD> Zakim, aaaa is me
16:55:00 <Zakim> +MartinD; got it
16:56:51 <Zakim> + +03539149aabb
16:57:01 <zimmer> Zakim, +03539149aabb is me
16:57:01 <Zakim> +zimmer; got it
16:57:23 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:57:23 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:57:25 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:57:42 <Zakim> +IanH
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16:58:24 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
16:58:36 <Zakim> +??P4
16:58:39 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.06.10/Agenda
16:59:24 <IanH> I see Martin did all the set up stuff already -- thanks!
17:00:02 <Rinke> Rinke has joined #owl
17:00:21 <MartinD> zakim, mute me
17:00:21 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted
17:00:26 <Zakim> +Sandro
17:00:31 <Zakim> +baojie
17:00:41 <bcuencagrau> bcuencagrau has joined #owl
17:00:59 <baojie> baojie has joined #owl
17:01:21 <Zakim> +bglimm
17:01:29 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, bglimm is bcuencagrau
17:01:29 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
17:01:34 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
17:01:34 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
17:01:47 <MartinD> topic: Admin matters
17:01:53 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
17:01:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see MartinD (muted), zimmer, Ivan, IanH, MarkusK_, Sandro, baojie, bcuencagrau (muted)
17:01:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see baojie, bcuencagrau, Rinke, MarkusK_, zimmer, ivan, Zakim, MartinD, IanH, RRSAgent, sandro, trackbot
17:02:09 <MartinD> IanH: any agenda amendments?
17:02:19 <Zakim> +pfps
17:02:21 <Zakim> + +2
17:02:23 <IanH> q?
17:02:26 <MartinD> IanH: I saw the previous minutes need some cleanup
17:02:27 <Rinke> zakim, +2 is me
17:02:27 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it
17:02:32 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
17:02:32 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
17:03:08 <pfps> pfps has joined #owl
17:03:08 <MartinD> ... minutes cannot be accepted in their current shape, I will talk to Bijan
17:03:39 <MartinD> subtopic: Action items status
17:03:48 <MartinD> IanH: both items were completed
17:03:40 <pfps> they're done
17:04:00 <pfps> ... at least, they *better* be done!
17:04:00 <MartinD> IanH: no overdue actions, let's move on
17:04:10 <MartinD> topic: Status of the OWL WG documents
17:04:19 <MartinD> subtopic: Plain literals spec
17:04:36 <pfps> we hope everything holds together
17:04:53 <MartinD> IanH: thanks goes to Sandro and Peter to make sure things were wrapped up and look good
17:05:17 <MartinD> ... there is a formal vote on the exit criteria
17:06:07 <MartinD> ... this needs to be updated, as the problem with rdf:text, now rdf:PlainLiteral, is no longer there
17:06:08 <Zhe> Zhe has joined #owl
17:06:35 <Zakim> +Zhe
17:06:39 <IanH> q?
17:06:45 <MartinD> Sandro: I don't think we need to do anything like implementation of literals; it's mostly about referencing 
17:06:46 <msmith> msmith has joined #owl
17:06:51 <MartinD> IanH: any other comments? see also http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/CR_Exit_Criteria for general information on exit criteria 
17:07:04 <MartinD> subtopic: Status report on the publication drafts
17:07:12 <MartinD> IanH: all in good shape
17:07:25 <MartinD> Sandro: yes, they are all in good shape
17:07:33 <Zakim> +msmith1
17:07:54 <Achille> Achille has joined #owl
17:08:01 <MartinD> IanH: I sent an email and people responded, pointers associated with people/editors are mixed, some point to homepage, some to OWL wiki... 
17:08:03 <Zakim> +[IBM]
17:08:24 <MartinD> ... please check what URL is associated with your name if you are an editor, whether it's the right one
17:08:45 <MartinD> subtopic: Transition to CR (Candidate Recommendation)
17:09:06 <MartinD> IanH: the status is that all things are "go"... got approval from the director today
17:09:25 <MartinD> IanH: congratulations to everyone
17:09:44 <MartinD> Sandro: we can be optimistic that we would have it formally online in the next few days
17:10:14 <MartinD> IanH: still a few minor hurdles, most administrative... it's likely to appear tomorrow or in a few days
17:10:33 <MartinD> ... big thanks to Sandro for working on getting the docs out as early as tomorrow
17:10:51 <MartinD> Sandro: and also thanks to all those contributing to the work
17:11:17 <MartinD> subtopic: Transition to LC (Last Call)
17:11:22 <Achille> Achille has joined #owl
17:11:25 <christine> christine has joined #owl
17:11:31 <MartinD> IanH: status is also good, docs are planned to go out shortly...
17:11:34 <Achille> zakim, ibm is me
17:11:34 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
17:11:39 <IanH> q?
17:12:13 <pfps> not a serious problem
17:12:17 <Zakim> +??P14
17:12:27 <MartinD> Sandro: my script doesn't know about notes, not sure how to publish syntax doc - as a note? but it's not a big issue at the moment
17:12:37 <christine> zakim, ??P14 is me
17:12:37 <Zakim> +christine; got it
17:12:41 <IanH> q?
17:12:45 <MartinD> ... more work needs to be done on this
17:12:59 <MartinD> IanH: we can focus on other things that need to be done in the near future
17:13:04 <MartinD> TOPIC: Issues/comments
17:13:22 <MartinD> IanH: a few issues still trailing, partly queries from the review process
17:13:54 <MartinD> IanH: first, comment from Benjamin on RL profile ( http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/LC2_Responses/BG1 )
17:14:02 <IanH> q?
17:14:04 <pfps> q+
17:14:10 <IanH> ack pfps
17:14:10 <MartinD> ... do we want to raise this into an issue form or ?
17:14:49 <MartinD> pfps: some changes he suggests go in less desirable direction, we made some changes for him, he was 'minimally' satisfied with those
17:15:23 <MartinD> IanH: I think I added both those references at the end, we can certainly use the alternative references as he suggests, would hurt the content
17:15:25 <pfps> the more references the merrier :-)
17:15:46 <pfps> that might be a minimal response
17:15:50 <MartinD> ... not yet there, but can be done, is this sufficient?
17:15:55 <Zhe> sounds good 
17:16:27 <MartinD> ... ok, I will make that amendment and go back to Benjamin - if this satisfies his comment without deeper changes, good; if not, let's see what can be done
17:16:51 <MartinD> IanH: next, Michael's question on forest-like anonymous individuals
17:16:57 <IanH> q?
17:17:10 <MartinD> ... the syntax wasn't clear on this, did editors have chance to look at this?
17:17:28 <MartinD> pfps: we may need to do an update on that explanation, it was slightly ambiguous
17:17:38 <MartinD> IanH: esp. unclear wrt. roles
17:17:54 <MartinD> pfps: Ian to liase with Boris to get this fixed
17:18:17 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - IanH
17:18:32 <MartinD> ACTION: Ian to ask Boris to make a relevant editorial change in the syntax document to address Michael's points
17:18:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-341 - Ask Boris to make a relevant editorial change in the syntax document to address Michael's points [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-06-17].
17:19:01 <MartinD> Ian: I should also take formal action on Benjamin's comment
17:19:23 <IanH> ACTION: Ian to add extra reference and check with Benjamin if this satisfies his requirements
17:19:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-342 - Add extra reference and check with Benjamin if this satisfies his requirements [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-06-17].
17:19:57 <MartinD> Ian: the last thing was Alan's comment on abbreviation form of literals, did Peter respond to this?
17:20:16 <MartinD> Peter: this has been done, part of a previous action point
17:20:17 <msmith> Boris's edits to syntax were very helpful for these literals
17:20:28 <MartinD> Ian: any other points to be discussed?
17:20:48 <MartinD> Peter: can we make a comment about references? making them more  uniform, etc?
17:21:04 <MartinD> ... at some point we would need to do some cleanup and make them more uniform
17:21:32 <MartinD> ... some macros are already fairly uniform, but references from text look ugly
17:21:52 <MartinD> Ian: I agree, some of them don't help with reading the text
17:22:18 <MartinD> ... since it's mostly done manually, almost every of these references needs to changed by hand
17:22:47 <MartinD> Sandro: maybe we can replace them by macros, at the point of going through...
17:22:56 <MartinD> Ian: do we want to record this as an issue?
17:24:22 <MartinD> Ian: I take the action on me to discuss this unification with the editors of the documents to see if they are willing to do anything with it
17:24:30 <IanH> ACTION: Ian to discuss with editors the possibility of improving the citation style
17:24:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-343 - Discuss with editors the possibility of improving the citation style [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-06-17].
17:25:02 <MartinD> Ian: this is not exactly urgent, but let's have it recorded, any other issues?
17:25:08 <MartinD> TOPIC: Implementation and testing
17:25:10 <msmith> q+
17:25:17 <MartinD> Ian: not much to say on this?
17:25:17 <IanH> ack msmith
17:25:44 <ivan> q+
17:25:49 <MartinD> Mike: nothing to discuss, but I expect to have the queue of test cases down to zero next week...
17:26:05 <MartinD> Ian: if tests are approved, do you think we have sufficient coverage?
17:26:07 <IanH> q?
17:26:29 <MartinD> Mike: it would be nice if we had... I guess there should be enough coverage
17:26:36 <IanH> ack ivan
17:26:43 <MartinD> ... enough for syntactic items, tests should be sufficient
17:27:04 <IanH> q?
17:27:06 <MartinD> Ivan: do the upcoming tests include those that Michael prepared? I look a while ago and some are still empty
17:27:48 <MartinD> ... we have a tight schedule, we don't have tests for some aspects... they were promised, but when do we expect them to happen?
17:28:03 <MartinD> Ian: I will clarify this by email...
17:28:04 <MartinD> ... Mike is getting through them pretty quickly
17:28:05 <msmith> yes
17:28:15 <MarkusK_> Michael already was looking at uploading his tests recently, and had some very concrete technical questions; I assume they could be ready rather soon
17:28:29 <IanH> q?
17:28:54 <MartinD> Ivan: next Ian and me should see potential testers for RL, so it's important
17:29:08 <MartinD> Ian: I will communicate with Michael to accelerate this upload
17:29:28 <msmith> I heard from Dmitry, and he was asking about submitting FaCT++ results
17:29:29 <MartinD> Ian: I heard from Uli that Italian people ran the tests and will be submitting their results shortly
17:30:28 <MartinD> Ian: everyone who is an implementer or if you know implementers, please, submit results, it's straightforward
17:30:40 <IanH> q?
17:30:43 <MartinD> ... talk to us how to make the upload even easier (if necessary)
17:31:12 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
17:31:12 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
17:31:22 <msmith> this link I think http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Running_Guide
17:31:27 <MartinD> Ivan: would it be possible to put all the necessary links for the tests on the web page? now there are only test results, but the other links should be equally prominent on the homepage
17:31:48 <MartinD> Ian: anything else on implementation and/or testing?
17:32:11 <MartinD> ... I heard the progress was made with OWL API, there is a new version, fully OWL2 compliant - good news
17:32:36 <pfps> q+
17:32:40 <IanH> q?
17:32:41 <MartinD> TOPIC: Features "at risk"
17:32:44 <IanH> ack pfps
17:33:11 <MartinD> Peter: it might be good idea to have the implementation reports on the at-risk features...
17:33:17 <IanH> q?
17:33:24 <MartinD> Ian: we already have the implementation of at least one - hermit almost done
17:33:32 <MartinD> ... who would be the other candidate?
17:33:43 <MartinD> Peter: Fact++ or maybe Pellet?
17:34:09 <MartinD> Ian: would this include both 'rational' and 'literal' support?
17:34:26 <IanH> q?
17:34:31 <MartinD> ... is there a plan to implement this in Pellet?
17:34:48 <MartinD> Mike: yes, we are actively working on this... it's a possibility...
17:35:02 <MartinD> ... unlikely to have it done in the main release of Pellet
17:35:18 <MartinD> Ian: maybe even a preliminary report about a beta implementation might be good?
17:35:24 <MartinD> Mike: working on it...
17:35:25 <msmith> yes.
17:35:38 <christine> christine has joined #owl
17:35:50 <IanH> q?
17:35:53 <ivan> q+
17:35:55 <MartinD> Ian: this section is just a reminder to keep us thinking about the implementation points
17:35:57 <IanH> ack ivan
17:36:03 <MartinD> Ian: Any other business?
17:36:21 <MartinD> Ivan: now that we are going to the CR phase, do we need weekly telecons?
17:36:37 <MartinD> Ian: judging from this week's agenda, it looks thin.
17:36:41 <IanH> q?
17:36:48 <ivan> q+
17:36:53 <IanH> ack ivan
17:36:54 <MartinD> ... we will inquire on email what people want to do about this
17:37:01 <IanH> q?
17:37:02 <MartinD> ... possibility to go bi-weekly?
17:37:07 <IanH> q?
17:37:10 <IanH> ack ?
17:37:32 <MartinD> Ivan: bi-weekly would be alright, but we should still keep the time allocated for every week at this time, just in case something arises
17:37:48 <MartinD> Ian: anybody feels strongly about weekly telecons?
17:38:20 <MartinD> ... I will send an email round to suggest moving from weekly schedule to a bi-weekly one
17:38:40 <Rinke> omit:  thanks, congrats and bye!
17:38:42 <Zakim> -msmith
17:38:42 <Zhe> omit: bye
17:38:42 <MartinD> Ian: if no other business, thanks to Martin for scribing and thanks to all for the transition to CR!
17:38:44 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:38:45 <Zakim> -Achille
17:38:46 <Zakim> -zimmer
17:38:47 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
17:38:47 <Zakim> -Zhe
17:38:49 <Zakim> -baojie
17:38:49 <Zakim> -IanH
17:38:50 <Zakim> -Rinke
17:38:51 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:38:52 <MartinD> ... telco concluded
17:38:53 <Zakim> -pfps
17:38:55 <Zakim> -christine
17:39:01 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
17:39:02 <Zakim> -MartinD
17:39:04 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
17:39:08 <Zakim> Attendees were +0190827aaaa, MartinD, zimmer, Ivan, IanH, MarkusK_, Sandro, baojie, bcuencagrau, pfps, Rinke, Zhe, msmith, Achille, christine
17:47:53 <msmith> msmith has left #owl
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