00:00:00 <schneid> present: Achille Fokoue, Antoine Zimmermann, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Bijan Parsia, Boris Motik, Christine Golbreich, Deborah McGuinness, Ian Horrocks, Ivan Herman, Jie Bao, Mike Smith, Peter Patel-Schneider, Sandro Hawke, Sebastian Rudolph, Uli Sattler, Michael Schneider, Zhe Wu
00:00:00 <schneid> chair: Ian Horrocks
00:00:00 <schneid> scribe: Michael Schneider
(Scribe set to Michael Schneider)
00:00:00 <schneid> regrets: Markus Krötzsch, Evan Wallace, Elisa Kendall, Rinke Hoekstra
16:56:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-owl-irc
(No events recorded for 1016 minutes)
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-owl-irc ←
16:56:37 <IanH> Zakim, this will be owlwg
Ian Horrocks: Zakim, this will be owlwg ←
16:56:37 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
16:56:51 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.04.29/Agenda
Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.04.29/Agenda ←
16:58:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
16:58:28 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH ←
16:58:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
16:59:45 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
16:59:45 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH ←
16:59:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:00:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:00:28 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH ←
17:00:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:00:36 <bijan> zakim, what time is it?
Bijan Parsia: zakim, what time is it? ←
17:00:36 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bijan.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, bijan. ←
17:00:42 <IanH> zakim, this is owl
Ian Horrocks: zakim, this is owl ←
17:00:42 <Zakim> ok, IanH; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM ←
17:00:50 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:00:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, ??P30, [IPcaller], pfps, ??P0, +1.202.408.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, ??P30, [IPcaller], pfps, ??P0, +1.202.408.aabb ←
17:00:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:01:07 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
17:01:33 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aacc ←
17:01:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aadd ←
17:01:51 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me ←
17:01:51 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←
17:01:57 <baojie> Zakim, aacc is me
17:01:57 <Zakim> +baojie; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie; got it ←
17:01:57 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
17:01:58 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted ←
17:02:15 <bijan> zakim, ??p30 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p30 is me ←
17:02:16 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
17:02:19 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
17:02:21 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:02:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, bijan, pfps, ??P0, msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), ??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, bijan, pfps, ??P0, msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), ??P17 ←
17:02:25 <uli> zakim, ??P0 is me
Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P0 is me ←
17:02:31 <schneid> zakim, ??P17 is me
zakim, ??P17 is me ←
17:02:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:02:35 <Zakim> +uli; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it ←
17:02:37 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it ←
17:02:41 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
17:02:45 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
17:02:49 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaee ←
17:02:50 <schneid> zakim, mute me
zakim, mute me ←
17:02:53 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
17:02:58 <IanH> ScribeNick: schneid
17:03:03 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
17:03:04 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
zakim, unmute me ←
17:03:06 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
17:03:07 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
17:03:09 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
17:03:17 <sebastian> zakim, ??P26 is me
Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, ??P26 is me ←
17:03:23 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:26 <Zakim> +sebastian; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +sebastian; got it ←
17:03:28 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
17:03:29 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, sebastian, bijan, pfps, uli (muted), msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, sebastian, bijan, pfps, uli (muted), msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan (muted) ←
17:03:32 <schneid> topic: Admin
17:03:35 <schneid> subtopic: Role Call
17:03:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see bmotik, Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bmotik, Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:03:39 <zimmer> Zakim, +03539149aaaa is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, +03539149aaaa is me ←
17:03:40 <sebastian> zakim, mute me
Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:42 <Zakim> +zimmer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zimmer; got it ←
17:03:46 <Zakim> sebastian should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should now be muted ←
17:03:48 <Zakim> + +0186528aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aaff ←
17:03:52 <schneid> subtopic: Agenda Amendments
17:04:01 <bmotik> Zakim, +0186528aaff is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, +0186528aaff is me ←
17:04:01 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
17:04:04 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
17:04:05 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:04:08 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:04:14 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
17:04:15 <Achille> zakim, ibm is me
Achille Fokoue: zakim, ibm is me ←
17:04:16 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
17:04:16 <schneid> ian: QRG discussion at beginning, because some champions will have to leave soon
Ian Horrocks: QRG discussion at beginning, because some champions will have to leave soon ←
17:04:22 <schneid> subtopic: Accept Previous Minutes
17:04:24 <msmith> they are not so good
Mike Smith: they are not so good ←
17:04:24 <pfps> minutes looked OK by me
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes looked OK by me ←
17:04:35 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
17:05:11 <msmith> q-
Mike Smith: q- ←
17:05:12 <uli> ...perhaps Peter doesn't mind things petering out?
Uli Sattler: ...perhaps Peter doesn't mind things petering out? ←
17:05:12 <schneid> msmith: large parts have no scribing, only irc chat
Mike Smith: large parts have no scribing, only irc chat ←
17:05:25 <schneid> christine: it was difficult to write at the end
Christine Golbreich: it was difficult to write at the end ←
17:05:47 <schneid> ian: christine, could you again clean it up a bit
Ian Horrocks: christine, could you again clean it up a bit ←
17:05:50 <schneid> christine: i did
Christine Golbreich: i did ←
17:05:54 <Zakim> +bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a ←
17:06:00 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, bmotik.a is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, bmotik.a is me ←
17:06:00 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←
17:06:06 <schneid> christine: can anyone help me with clean up?
Christine Golbreich: can anyone help me with clean up? ←
17:06:17 <pfps> I don't think that there is anything particularly important missing.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't think that there is anything particularly important missing. ←
17:06:20 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:06:20 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted ←
17:06:24 <schneid> ian: trouble is that there is not much there to clean up
Ian Horrocks: trouble is that there is not much there to clean up ←
17:06:25 <msmith> ok by me
Mike Smith: ok by me ←
17:06:32 <schneid> ian: should we just accept them as they are?
Ian Horrocks: should we just accept them as they are? ←
17:06:46 <schneid> ian: if no one objects, then accept them
Ian Horrocks: if no one objects, then accept them ←
17:06:59 <schneid> subtopic: Action Item Status
17:07:28 <schneid> ian: peter did Action 332
Ian Horrocks: peter did ACTION-332 ←
17:07:50 <schneid> ian: Action 333, review of NF&R: next week
Ian Horrocks: ACTION-333, review of NF&R: next week ←
17:08:00 <schneid> topic: Documents and Reviewing
17:08:05 <schneid> subtopic: LC Comments on rdf:text
17:08:09 <schneid> ian: we got comment on rdf:text
Ian Horrocks: we got comment on rdf:text ←
17:08:13 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:08:19 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
17:08:21 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
17:08:29 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:08:30 <schneid> ian: don't know perfectly how to deal with these comments
Ian Horrocks: don't know perfectly how to deal with these comments ←
17:08:46 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:08:49 <ivan> zakim, unmute ivan
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute ivan ←
17:08:49 <Zakim> Ivan was not muted, ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan was not muted, ivan ←
17:08:51 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:09:13 <schneid> bijan: it's highly likely the sparql wg will have a comment on rdf:text
Bijan Parsia: it's highly likely the sparql wg will have a comment on rdf:text ←
17:09:56 <schneid> bijan: i was talking to andy seaborne, who is main pusher, and he thinks that comment will not be LC regeneration comment
Bijan Parsia: i was talking to andy seaborne, who is main pusher, and he thinks that comment will not be LC regeneration comment ←
17:09:58 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
17:10:07 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
17:10:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
17:10:09 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
17:10:13 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
17:10:34 <schneid> ian: hasn't andy seaborne reviewed it already?
Ian Horrocks: hasn't andy seaborne reviewed it already? ←
17:10:35 <sandro> (sorry I'm late.)
Sandro Hawke: (sorry I'm late.) ←
17:10:43 <schneid> bijan: yes, but not from the sparql perspective
Bijan Parsia: yes, but not from the sparql perspective ←
17:11:22 <schneid> bijan: there may be things that are surprising to him, and that he did not thought about before
Bijan Parsia: there may be things that are surprising to him, and that he did not thought about before ←
17:11:48 <schneid> ian: who do we have to work on rdf:text?
Ian Horrocks: who do we have to work on rdf:text? ←
17:11:52 <bijan> One thread: <http://www.w3.org/mid/49F6C028.1000006@deri.org>
Bijan Parsia: One thread: <http://www.w3.org/mid/49F6C028.1000006@deri.org> ←
17:11:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:12:00 <schneid> ian: probably boris
Ian Horrocks: probably boris ←
17:12:26 <schneid> ivan: axel polleres is both editor of rdf:text and he is on the sparql wg
Ivan Herman: axel polleres is both editor of rdf:text and he is on the sparql wg ←
17:12:48 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:12:49 <schneid> ivan: believes that axel is trying to take action on this
Ivan Herman: believes that axel is trying to take action on this ←
17:12:51 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:12:51 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:12:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:12:55 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:13:06 <schneid> ian: and we can wait one more week to see what happens
Ian Horrocks: and we can wait one more week to see what happens ←
17:13:23 <schneid> boris: axel has already made some smaller changes to the document
Boris Motik: axel has already made some smaller changes to the document ←
17:13:29 <bijan> Him
Bijan Parsia: Him ←
17:13:40 <schneid> ian: we already have a comment on rdf:text
Ian Horrocks: we already have a comment on rdf:text ←
17:13:42 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:13:47 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:13:59 <schneid> boris: i made an informal comment to him
Boris Motik: i made an informal comment to him ←
17:14:16 <schneid> boris: made clear that is personal response
Boris Motik: made clear that is personal response ←
17:14:25 <sandro> (boris' reply to Michael was good, and a good thing to do.)
Sandro Hawke: (boris' reply to Michael was good, and a good thing to do.) ←
17:14:33 <schneid> boris: this guy was complaining about the "#"
Boris Motik: this guy was complaining about the "#" ←
17:14:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:15:27 <schneid> boris: we maybe have to change the document to talk about qnames, but don't know how to do it exactly
Boris Motik: we maybe have to change the document to talk about qnames, but don't know how to do it exactly ←
17:15:30 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:15:38 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:15:40 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:15:50 <schneid> ian: can we have some try in the wiki?
Ian Horrocks: can we have some try in the wiki? ←
17:17:12 <schneid> subtopic: QRG (Agenda Amendment)
17:17:35 <schneid> ian: we forgot about the agenda amendmend: QRG
Ian Horrocks: we forgot about the agenda amendmend: QRG ←
17:17:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:18:00 <schneid> jie: peter made several comments, many editorial
Jie Bao: peter made several comments, many editorial ←
17:18:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:19:06 <schneid> jie: links to other documents may be useful to new users
Jie Bao: links to other documents may be useful to new users ←
17:19:22 <schneid> jie: specifically the links to the primer
Jie Bao: specifically the links to the primer ←
17:20:14 <schneid> ian: is the QRG close to ship?
Ian Horrocks: is the QRG close to ship? ←
17:20:17 <pfps> QRG is missing some constructs, still, I think
Peter Patel-Schneider: QRG is missing some constructs, still, I think ←
17:20:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:20:23 <schneid> jie: the web version seems close
Jie Bao: the web version seems close ←
17:20:28 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:20:28 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to ask about why it would useful to users new to owl altogether
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to ask about why it would useful to users new to owl altogether ←
17:20:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:21:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:21:37 <schneid> jie: people coming from owl 1 will find helpful links to NF&R to understand the changes
Jie Bao: people coming from owl 1 will find helpful links to NF&R to understand the changes ←
17:21:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:21:54 <bijan> I'm against the links to Primer too
Bijan Parsia: I'm against the links to Primer too ←
17:21:58 <pfps> q+
17:22:01 <bijan> But I was confused by what Jie said
Bijan Parsia: But I was confused by what Jie said ←
17:22:01 <schneid> christine: those links are useful
Christine Golbreich: those links are useful ←
17:22:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:22:27 <schneid> christine: first they are harmless
Christine Golbreich: first they are harmless ←
17:22:37 <schneid> christine: second helpful for navigation
Christine Golbreich: second helpful for navigation ←
17:22:48 <bijan> Some of us don't think they are harmless
Bijan Parsia: Some of us don't think they are harmless ←
17:23:03 <schneid> christine: we should focus on content of document, not so much on the links
Christine Golbreich: we should focus on content of document, not so much on the links ←
17:23:22 <bijan> (Links are part of the content as well.)
Bijan Parsia: (Links are part of the content as well.) ←
17:23:34 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:23:40 <schneid> ian: only trouble, there needs to be actual means for the links [FIXME]
Ian Horrocks: only trouble, there needs to be actual means for the links [FIXME] ←
17:24:14 <uli> +1 to Peter: I thought these links would be "arguments"!
Uli Sattler: +1 to Peter: I thought these links would be "arguments"! ←
17:24:21 <schneid> pfps: disagrees with christine, they are harmful, introduce bloat, and extra bits are not part of the natural structure of the document
Peter Patel-Schneider: disagrees with christine, they are harmful, introduce bloat, and extra bits are not part of the natural structure of the document ←
17:24:28 <IanH> ack baojie
Ian Horrocks: ack baojie ←
17:24:47 <bijan> Also, I think the "new" will get dated
Bijan Parsia: Also, I think the "new" will get dated ←
17:24:49 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:24:56 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:24:57 <uli> q+
Uli Sattler: q+ ←
17:25:08 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
17:25:16 <bijan> I'll just say that the "new" bits will get dated over time
Bijan Parsia: I'll just say that the "new" bits will get dated over time ←
17:25:33 <bijan> They won't be "new", so it's bad to *highlight* them
Bijan Parsia: They won't be "new", so it's bad to *highlight* them ←
17:25:50 <schneid> ian: modulo links, are people currently happy with the document?
Ian Horrocks: modulo links, are people currently happy with the document? ←
17:25:57 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
17:25:57 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
17:25:58 <IanH> ack uli
Ian Horrocks: ack uli ←
17:26:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:26:48 <schneid> uli: i'm a bit puzzled because of the links, since the QRG was designed to be printed to paper, used offline at desktop, where there are no links
Uli Sattler: i'm a bit puzzled because of the links, since the QRG was designed to be printed to paper, used offline at desktop, where there are no links ←
17:27:09 <pfps> I also do not like the top-level divisions, and have expressed this in the past
Peter Patel-Schneider: I also do not like the top-level divisions, and have expressed this in the past ←
17:27:23 <bijan> q+ I think I should say it
Bijan Parsia: q+ I think I should say it ←
17:27:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:27:54 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
17:28:23 <DeborahM> q+
Deborah McGuinness: q+ ←
17:28:28 <schneid> christine: question, is it the fact that we don't want to point to the NF&R?
Christine Golbreich: question, is it the fact that we don't want to point to the NF&R? ←
17:28:44 <bijan> q+ to talk against highlighting new features
Bijan Parsia: q+ to talk against highlighting new features ←
17:28:51 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
17:28:51 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
17:28:55 <pfps> The NF&R pointers are bad in two ways - 1/ the "anchor" is distracting, 2/ the link itself is of very limited utility
Peter Patel-Schneider: The NF&R pointers are bad in two ways - 1/ the "anchor" is distracting, 2/ the link itself is of very limited utility ←
17:29:23 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:29:25 <schneid> ian: there's no other purpose of the things in the document than pointing to the NF&R [fixme]
Ian Horrocks: there's no other purpose of the things in the document than pointing to the NF&R [fixme] ←
17:29:31 <IanH> ack baojie
Ian Horrocks: ack baojie ←
17:29:50 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:29:51 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:30:04 <uli> ok
Uli Sattler: ok ←
17:30:11 <schneid> jie: if we have www version with links, and pdf version without
Jie Bao: if we have www version with links, and pdf version without ←
17:30:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:30:22 <schneid> jie: that's technically doable
Jie Bao: that's technically doable ←
17:30:25 <pfps> But the PDF version should have links! Just when printed they don't work.
Peter Patel-Schneider: But the PDF version should have links! Just when printed they don't work. ←
17:30:26 <IanH> ack DeborahM
Ian Horrocks: ack DeborahM ←
17:30:42 <bijan> It's easy with a stylesheet to target print vs. screen
Bijan Parsia: It's easy with a stylesheet to target print vs. screen ←
17:30:44 <pfps> q+ to remind us of the goals for QRG
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to remind us of the goals for QRG ←
17:30:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:30:58 <schneid> deb: my reading of the comments is that we have general agreement on the document's content
Deborah McGuinness: my reading of the comments is that we have general agreement on the document's content ←
17:31:29 <schneid> deb: editors think that there should be a web version with and pdf version without links
Deborah McGuinness: editors think that there should be a web version with and pdf version without links ←
17:31:34 <uli> sure - but I repeat Bijan's point: the NF&R links will 'outdate'?
Uli Sattler: sure - but I repeat Bijan's point: the NF&R links will 'outdate'? ←
17:31:41 <schneid> deb: believe that more links in the web version are good
Deborah McGuinness: believe that more links in the web version are good ←
17:32:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:32:06 <baojie> ok
17:32:12 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:32:12 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to talk against highlighting new features
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to talk against highlighting new features ←
17:32:14 <pfps> q-
17:32:15 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:32:15 <pfps> q+
17:32:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:33:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:33:07 <schneid> bijan: highlighting new features is not a good idea for this document, because users should not care about this
Bijan Parsia: highlighting new features is not a good idea for this document, because users should not care about this ←
17:33:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:33:24 <schneid> bijan: so isn't the highlighting already harmful
Bijan Parsia: so isn't the highlighting already harmful ←
17:33:33 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
17:34:30 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:35:05 <sandro> maybe time for a straw poll?
Sandro Hawke: maybe time for a straw poll? ←
17:35:12 <schneid> pfps: issue is that we should come up with a document that is a real recommendation for people
Peter Patel-Schneider: issue is that we should come up with a document that is a real recommendation for people ←
17:35:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:35:27 <bijan> I wonder if the authors could address my point that highlighting new things might be overall bad
Bijan Parsia: I wonder if the authors could address my point that highlighting new things might be overall bad ←
17:35:27 <schneid> pfps: not to make all wg members happy
Peter Patel-Schneider: not to make all wg members happy ←
17:35:39 <bijan> Because they overemphasize them
Bijan Parsia: Because they overemphasize them ←
17:35:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:35:46 <schneid> pfps: there are still missing features, e.g. datatype definitions
Peter Patel-Schneider: there are still missing features, e.g. datatype definitions ←
17:36:08 <schneid> pfps: lots has changed
Peter Patel-Schneider: lots has changed ←
17:36:22 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:36:30 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:36:35 <schneid> ian: what about overall structure?
Ian Horrocks: what about overall structure? ←
17:36:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:36:44 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
17:37:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:37:17 <IanH> ack baojie
Ian Horrocks: ack baojie ←
17:37:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:37:29 <schneid> christine: question about functional syntax
Christine Golbreich: question about functional syntax ←
17:37:36 <bijan> I like the letters
Bijan Parsia: I like the letters ←
17:37:42 <bijan> Easier to pattern match
Bijan Parsia: Easier to pattern match ←
17:37:49 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:37:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:38:04 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:38:06 <pfps> possibly missing features - datatype definitions
Peter Patel-Schneider: possibly missing features - datatype definitions ←
17:38:07 <christine> OPE
Christine Golbreich: OPE ←
17:38:16 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:38:20 <baojie> +1 to bijan
17:38:21 <schneid> jie: letter sequence "ce" makes printout larger [FIXME]
Jie Bao: letter sequence "ce" makes printout larger [FIXME] ←
17:38:31 <bijan> MInor indeed
Bijan Parsia: MInor indeed ←
17:38:41 <schneid> ian: all these things are editorially and minor
Ian Horrocks: all these things are editorially and minor ←
17:38:44 <pfps> the basic outline is acceptable
Peter Patel-Schneider: the basic outline is acceptable ←
17:38:44 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:39:07 <schneid> ian: i don't hear anyone talking against general structure
Ian Horrocks: i don't hear anyone talking against general structure ←
17:39:20 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:39:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:39:24 <christine> Evan is not there
Christine Golbreich: Evan is not there ←
17:39:30 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:39:36 <schneid> ian: we should have a decision on the more concrete technical issues
Ian Horrocks: we should have a decision on the more concrete technical issues ←
17:39:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:39:57 <msmith> +1 to bijan's suggestion
Mike Smith: +1 to bijan's suggestion ←
17:40:09 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:40:09 <christine> what suggestion ?
Christine Golbreich: what suggestion ? ←
17:40:11 <schneid> bijan: want's to hear from editors about suggestion /not/ to highlight new features
Bijan Parsia: want's to hear from editors about suggestion /not/ to highlight new features ←
17:40:26 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:40:29 <msmith> I agree with the suggestion that new features should not be highlighted in QRG
Mike Smith: I agree with the suggestion that new features should not be highlighted in QRG ←
17:40:34 <sandro> +1 to not having the new-feature high-lighting.
Sandro Hawke: +1 to not having the new-feature high-lighting. ←
17:40:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:40:38 <uli> me too
Uli Sattler: me too ←
17:40:39 <schneid> bijan: if you are using this card for two years, do you still care about new features being highlighted?
Bijan Parsia: if you are using this card for two years, do you still care about new features being highlighted? ←
17:40:41 <christine> but keep (N) ?
Christine Golbreich: but keep (N) ? ←
17:40:51 <pfps> this document is a QRG to *OWL 2* so highlighting the differences only detracts from its utility
Peter Patel-Schneider: this document is a QRG to *OWL 2* so highlighting the differences only detracts from its utility ←
17:41:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:41:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:41:35 <DeborahM> my summary of what i heard is (1) make sure we address pfps's content suggestions, possibly a suggestion from uli on a small reorganization, (3) leave short names for the momentbut possibly expand if working group decide
Deborah McGuinness: my summary of what i heard is (1) make sure we address pfps's content suggestions, possibly a suggestion from uli on a small reorganization, (3) leave short names for the momentbut possibly expand if working group decide ←
17:41:41 <DeborahM> q+
Deborah McGuinness: q+ ←
17:42:23 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:42:28 <pfps> uli's suggestion would require a reordering of the document and a redo of the sections, but little more, I thin
Peter Patel-Schneider: uli's suggestion would require a reordering of the document and a redo of the sections, but little more, I thin ←
17:42:48 <IanH> ack DeborahM
Ian Horrocks: ack DeborahM ←
17:42:50 <Zhe> it is such a subjective matter :)
Zhe Wu: it is such a subjective matter :) ←
17:42:59 <christine> what about linking to NF&R for new features instead of Primer ?
Christine Golbreich: what about linking to NF&R for new features instead of Primer ? ←
17:43:30 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:43:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:43:40 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
17:43:56 <bijan> Or one could have a toggle
Bijan Parsia: Or one could have a toggle ←
17:43:59 <schneid> deb: sees a point with bijan's argument, bold too much, but no mentioning of new features is too less
Deborah McGuinness: sees a point with bijan's argument, bold too much, but no mentioning of new features is too less ←
17:44:00 <pfps> -1 to separate list on web version
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 to separate list on web version ←
17:44:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:14 <DeborahM> +1 to ivan (with that list including links)
Deborah McGuinness: +1 to ivan (with that list including links) ←
17:44:17 <schneid> ivan: what about only having mentioning the new features on the web version
Ivan Herman: what about only having mentioning the new features on the web version ←
17:44:28 <uli> -1 to even more docs
Uli Sattler: -1 to even more docs ←
17:44:33 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:39 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:44:39 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to suggest a toggle
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to suggest a toggle ←
17:44:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:51 <pfps> -1 to toggling
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 to toggling ←
17:44:58 <schneid> bijan: what about making the highlighting toggleable?
Bijan Parsia: what about making the highlighting toggleable? ←
17:45:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:45:14 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:45:38 <christine> +1 Ivan
Christine Golbreich: +1 Ivan ←
17:46:06 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:46:11 <bijan> I can live with it
Bijan Parsia: I can live with it ←
17:46:20 <pfps> q+
17:46:23 <baojie> ok with it
17:46:25 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:46:30 <DeborahM> i can live with ivan's or bijan's suggestion
Deborah McGuinness: i can live with ivan's or bijan's suggestion ←
17:46:41 <schneid> ian: ivan's proposal sounds most acceptable to most of us
Ian Horrocks: ivan's proposal sounds most acceptable to most of us ←
17:46:54 <msmith> I agree with pfps, but can live with the suggestion.
Mike Smith: I agree with pfps, but can live with the suggestion. ←
17:47:06 <bmotik> I agree with peter here.
Boris Motik: I agree with peter here. ←
17:47:10 <schneid> pfps: new'ness is not a point for this particular document
Peter Patel-Schneider: new'ness is not a point for this particular document ←
17:47:10 <bijan> I agree with pfps, but am with msmith
Bijan Parsia: I agree with pfps, but am with msmith ←
17:47:22 <bmotik> In a year from now, all features will be old (and dusty).
Boris Motik: In a year from now, all features will be old (and dusty). ←
17:47:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:47:25 <pfps> q+
17:47:32 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:47:37 <pfps> q-
17:47:39 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
17:48:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:49:02 <DeborahM> i have to run now. if we vote for ivan's suggestion i vote +1 for that but can also support bijan's toggling proposal
Deborah McGuinness: i have to run now. if we vote for ivan's suggestion i vote +1 for that but can also support bijan's toggling proposal ←
17:49:09 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:49:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:50:11 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaee ←
17:50:14 <schneid> bijan: prefers toggle, because it's weird to have information in the web version which is not in the paper version, when the paper version is the real target document
Bijan Parsia: prefers toggle, because it's weird to have information in the web version which is not in the paper version, when the paper version is the real target document ←
17:50:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:50:27 <pfps> I've been most in favour of making this document something that lives in the WG web pages, and is not a TR at all.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I've been most in favour of making this document something that lives in the WG web pages, and is not a TR at all. ←
17:50:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:50:44 <schneid> bijan: having a separate list is getting into other documents responsibility
Bijan Parsia: having a separate list is getting into other documents responsibility ←
17:51:00 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:51:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:51:20 <schneid> pfps: it's meant to be a simple document, but with toggles
Peter Patel-Schneider: it's meant to be a simple document, but with toggles ←
17:51:35 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:51:38 <schneid> bijan: is this particular thing such a problem?
Bijan Parsia: is this particular thing such a problem? ←
17:51:40 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:52:01 <schneid> pfps: toggle would need additional space
Peter Patel-Schneider: toggle would need additional space ←
17:52:08 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:52:15 <schneid> bijan: there is already additional stuff in the web version
Bijan Parsia: there is already additional stuff in the web version ←
17:52:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:52:43 <schneid> bijan: but links to NF&R in print version do not make much sense in genaral
Bijan Parsia: but links to NF&R in print version do not make much sense in genaral ←
17:53:11 <ivan> I am o.k. with bijan
Ivan Herman: I am o.k. with bijan ←
17:53:16 <schneid> bijan: deb said she can live with both bijan's and ivan's suggestion
Bijan Parsia: deb said she can live with both bijan's and ivan's suggestion ←
17:53:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:53:46 <schneid> christine: decision will affect NF&R
Christine Golbreich: decision will affect NF&R ←
17:53:53 <bijan> How does it affect NF&R?
Bijan Parsia: How does it affect NF&R? ←
17:54:05 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:54:10 <ivan> ack christine
Ivan Herman: ack christine ←
17:54:13 <uli> christine, toggle means 'switch-offable'
Uli Sattler: christine, toggle means 'switch-offable' ←
17:54:17 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:54:17 <uli> and switch-onable
Uli Sattler: and switch-onable ←
17:54:18 <pfps> the decision should be made today, as after we make the decision the document has to be fixed up
Peter Patel-Schneider: the decision should be made today, as after we make the decision the document has to be fixed up ←
17:54:42 <uli> (1) toggle (2) extra list
Uli Sattler: (1) toggle (2) extra list ←
17:54:49 <uli> (3) as it is
Uli Sattler: (3) as it is ←
17:55:01 <christine> how make switc-offable ?
Christine Golbreich: how make switc-offable ? ←
17:55:02 <uli> (4) throw all refs to new features away
Uli Sattler: (4) throw all refs to new features away ←
17:55:06 <msmith> 4,1,2,3
Mike Smith: 4,1,2,3 ←
17:55:15 <bijan> 4,1,-,-
Bijan Parsia: 4,1,-,- ←
17:55:22 <baojie> 2,1,3
17:55:26 <schneid> schneid: 4,1,2,3
schneid: 4,1,2,3 ←
17:55:26 <bmotik> 4,-,-,-
Boris Motik: 4,-,-,- ←
17:55:27 <pfps> 4,-,-,-
Peter Patel-Schneider: 4,-,-,- ←
17:55:27 <zimmer> 1, 3, 4, 2
Antoine Zimmermann: 1, 3, 4, 2 ←
17:55:33 <bcuencagrau> 4,2,1,3
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 4,2,1,3 ←
17:55:33 <sandro> 2,1,3
Sandro Hawke: 2,1,3 ←
17:55:34 <ivan> 2143
Ivan Herman: 2143 ←
17:55:38 <christine> 1
17:55:40 <Zhe> 2, 3, 1, 4
17:55:42 <uli> 4,1,2
Uli Sattler: 4,1,2 ←
17:55:43 <IanH> 4,2,1,3
Ian Horrocks: 4,2,1,3 ←
17:55:51 <Achille> 2,1
Achille Fokoue: 2,1 ←
17:56:23 <uli> we could have a togglable extra list?
Uli Sattler: we could have a togglable extra list? ←
17:56:35 <uli> we can!
Uli Sattler: we can! ←
17:56:38 <schneid> ian: no one wan't leave things as they are
Ian Horrocks: no one wan't leave things as they are ←
17:57:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:57:27 <schneid> ian: we have either throw everything away or have the list
Ian Horrocks: we have either throw everything away or have the list ←
17:57:37 <schneid> bijan: often, the second choice was "toggle"
Bijan Parsia: often, the second choice was "toggle" ←
17:58:06 <schneid> ian: not so easy to do good quick statistical analysis
Ian Horrocks: not so easy to do good quick statistical analysis ←
17:58:22 <schneid> ian: nobody likes 3 ("keep as is")
Ian Horrocks: nobody likes 3 ("keep as is") ←
17:58:30 <schneid> ian: so let's again vote for only 1, 2 and 4
Ian Horrocks: so let's again vote for only 1, 2 and 4 ←
17:58:31 <sandro> strawpoll: (1) toggle, (2) extra list, (4) throw all refs to new features away
STRAWPOLL: (1) toggle, (2) extra list, (4) throw all refs to new features away ←
17:58:33 <ivan> 214
Ivan Herman: 214 ←
17:58:34 <pfps> 4--
Peter Patel-Schneider: 4-- ←
17:58:37 <bmotik> 4--
Boris Motik: 4-- ←
17:58:41 <bijan> 4,1,-
Bijan Parsia: 4,1,- ←
17:58:41 <msmith> 4,1,2
Mike Smith: 4,1,2 ←
17:58:41 <uli> 4,1,2
Uli Sattler: 4,1,2 ←
17:58:42 <sebastian> 4,2,1
Sebastian Rudolph: 4,2,1 ←
17:58:44 <baojie> 21-
17:58:45 <bcuencagrau> 4,2,1
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 4,2,1 ←
17:58:45 <Zhe> 214
17:58:46 <zimmer> 1 4
Antoine Zimmermann: 1 4 ←
17:58:49 <IanH> 4,2,1
Ian Horrocks: 4,2,1 ←
17:58:50 <schneid> schneid: 4,1,2
schneid: 4,1,2 ←
17:58:56 <sandro> 241
Sandro Hawke: 241 ←
17:58:58 <Achille> 2, 1
Achille Fokoue: 2, 1 ←
17:59:12 <christine> 1 2
Christine Golbreich: 1 2 ←
17:59:29 <schneid> ian: a bit more split between 4 and 2, but sees bijan's point
Ian Horrocks: a bit more split between 4 and 2, but sees bijan's point ←
17:59:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:00:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:00:42 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:01:01 <bijan> Actually, I don't care anymore :)
Bijan Parsia: Actually, I don't care anymore :) ←
18:01:22 <schneid> ivan: whether it is 1 or 2, there's no big difference, so bijan's proposal would be fine
Ivan Herman: whether it is 1 or 2, there's no big difference, so bijan's proposal would be fine ←
18:01:27 <bmotik> I won't lie down in the road.
Boris Motik: I won't lie down in the road. ←
18:01:28 <bijan> What do they prefer, 1 or 2?
Bijan Parsia: What do they prefer, 1 or 2? ←
18:01:43 <bmotik> I guess 2
Boris Motik: I guess 2 ←
18:01:49 <bijan> Ok, fine
Bijan Parsia: Ok, fine ←
18:01:51 <bijan> I go for it
Bijan Parsia: I go for it ←
18:02:05 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
18:02:23 <uli> christine, open a new connection?
Uli Sattler: christine, open a new connection? ←
18:02:37 <zimmer> ok for list at the end
Antoine Zimmermann: ok for list at the end ←
18:02:59 <sandro> strawpoll: list at end
STRAWPOLL: list at end ←
18:02:59 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:03:02 <bcuencagrau> +1
18:03:03 <baojie> +1
18:03:04 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:03:09 <IanH> 0
Ian Horrocks: 0 ←
18:03:09 <schneid> schneid: -0.1
schneid: -0.1 ←
18:03:09 <zimmer> +0.2
Antoine Zimmermann: +0.2 ←
18:03:10 <uli> 0
Uli Sattler: 0 ←
18:03:10 <bijan> +0
Bijan Parsia: +0 ←
18:03:11 <sebastian> 0
18:03:11 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:03:12 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
18:03:13 <Zhe> 0
18:03:14 <msmith> 0
Mike Smith: 0 ←
18:03:16 <pfps> -0, as long as the list is very compact
Peter Patel-Schneider: -0, as long as the list is very compact ←
18:03:30 <bijan> Make it
Bijan Parsia: Make it ←
18:03:31 <sandro> 0.5 point font, pfps.
Sandro Hawke: 0.5 point font, pfps. ←
18:03:46 <sandro> ("point five point" :-)
Sandro Hawke: ("point five point" :-) ←
18:05:10 <IanH> All emphasis on and links to new features to go from existing tables. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.
Ian Horrocks: All emphasis on and links to new features to go from existing tables. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R. ←
18:05:24 <pfps> This looks fine.
Peter Patel-Schneider: This looks fine. ←
18:05:27 <baojie> ok
18:05:27 <ivan> yep
Ivan Herman: yep ←
18:05:44 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
18:05:44 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
18:06:08 <Zhe> :_
18:06:11 <sandro> s/to go/will be removed/
Sandro Hawke: s/to go/will be removed/ ←
18:06:21 <msmith> Christine, you may find IRC more reliable if you try a different client, instead of the w3 web cgi.
Mike Smith: Christine, you may find IRC more reliable if you try a different client, instead of the w3 web cgi. ←
18:06:23 <pfps> As far as I am concerned, this list could even go in the card, if there is space.
Peter Patel-Schneider: As far as I am concerned, this list could even go in the card, if there is space. ←
18:06:32 <bijan> Yeah, me too
Bijan Parsia: Yeah, me too ←
18:06:44 <sandro> msmith, Christine can't read that!
Sandro Hawke: msmith, Christine can't read that! ←
18:07:26 <IanH> PROPOSED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.
PROPOSED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R. ←
18:07:33 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
18:07:33 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
18:07:36 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:07:38 <pfps> +0
18:07:45 <Zhe> 0
18:07:48 <baojie> +1
18:07:49 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:07:51 <sebastian> +0
Sebastian Rudolph: +0 ←
18:07:52 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
18:07:52 <bijan> +0
Bijan Parsia: +0 ←
18:07:54 <msmith> 0
Mike Smith: 0 ←
18:07:55 <zimmer> 0
18:07:57 <IanH> 0
Ian Horrocks: 0 ←
18:07:59 <schneid> schneid: -0
schneid: -0 ←
18:08:01 <bmotik> +0
Boris Motik: +0 ←
18:08:03 <christine> 0
18:08:04 <bcuencagrau> 0
18:08:10 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:08:28 <IanH> RESOLVED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.
RESOLVED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R. ←
18:08:44 <schneid> ian: is very happy with the resolution
Ian Horrocks: is very happy with the resolution ←
18:08:50 <baojie> :)
18:09:27 <schneid> subtopic: OWL LC Comments
18:09:40 <schneid> ian: anyone other than peter and boris looked at umberto's comments
Ian Horrocks: anyone other than peter and boris looked at umberto's comments ←
18:09:45 <uli> I did
Uli Sattler: I did ←
18:09:54 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
18:09:54 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
18:10:08 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
18:10:08 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
18:10:09 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:10:13 <schneid> uli: drafted responses look fine
Uli Sattler: drafted responses look fine ←
18:10:52 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:11:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:11:15 <schneid> subtopic: NF&R
18:11:16 <schneid> ian: christine, is NF&R ready to go?
Ian Horrocks: christine, is NF&R ready to go? ←
18:11:23 <pfps> NF&R is looking quite reasonable
Peter Patel-Schneider: NF&R is looking quite reasonable ←
18:11:43 <schneid> christine: basically yes, but still have a few questions to peter's comments
Christine Golbreich: basically yes, but still have a few questions to peter's comments ←
18:11:59 <schneid> ian: ok, please discuss offline
Ian Horrocks: ok, please discuss offline ←
18:12:07 <sebastian> zakim, unmute me
Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, unmute me ←
18:12:07 <Zakim> sebastian should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should no longer be muted ←
18:12:13 <schneid> subtopic: Primer
18:12:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:12:34 <bijan> I'm working on it now
Bijan Parsia: I'm working on it now ←
18:12:40 <schneid> sebastian: we did quite some work on primer in the last week
Sebastian Rudolph: we did quite some work on primer in the last week ←
18:12:46 <bijan> Should be done tonight
Bijan Parsia: Should be done tonight ←
18:13:06 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:13:07 <pfps> Primer needs reviewing
Peter Patel-Schneider: Primer needs reviewing ←
18:13:10 <schneid> sebastian: there are some things to be done by bijan
Sebastian Rudolph: there are some things to be done by bijan ←
18:13:18 <pfps> .... not shipping
Peter Patel-Schneider: .... not shipping ←
18:13:55 <schneid> bijan: there will be perhaps some disagreement about the granularity, but mostly editorial
Bijan Parsia: there will be perhaps some disagreement about the granularity, but mostly editorial ←
18:14:01 <sebastian> zakim, mute me
Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, mute me ←
18:14:01 <Zakim> sebastian should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should now be muted ←
18:14:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:14:09 <schneid> ian: volunteers for reviewing?
Ian Horrocks: volunteers for reviewing? ←
18:14:35 <schneid> ian: would be due 13 May
Ian Horrocks: would be due 13 May ←
18:14:38 <msmith> I can review by 13 May
Mike Smith: I can review by 13 May ←
18:15:13 <pfps> earlier reviews are much better, and more likely to be effective :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: earlier reviews are much better, and more likely to be effective :-) ←
18:15:15 <schneid> ian: will take it offline and ask, but msmith will be the number one
Ian Horrocks: will take it offline and ask, but msmith will be the number one ←
18:15:44 <schneid> topic: Implementation and Test Cases
18:15:50 <schneid> subtopic: Progress on Tool Support
18:15:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:15:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:16:02 <schneid> ian: there is this validation tool issue
Ian Horrocks: there is this validation tool issue ←
18:16:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:16:11 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
18:16:40 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:16:45 <schneid> ian: seems to use the owl api for reading ontologies
Ian Horrocks: seems to use the owl api for reading ontologies ←
18:17:12 <schneid> msmith: we don't have anything for species validation
Mike Smith: we don't have anything for species validation ←
18:17:58 <schneid> ian: we would like to have species validation for owl/xml [FIXME]
Ian Horrocks: we would like to have species validation for owl/xml [FIXME] ←
18:18:19 <schneid> ian: all i know is that some things are repaired away
Ian Horrocks: all i know is that some things are repaired away ←
18:18:59 <schneid> ian: can we talk to owl api people to have some strict mode?
Ian Horrocks: can we talk to owl api people to have some strict mode? ←
18:19:11 <msmith> action bijan to talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing
Mike Smith: action bijan to talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing ←
18:19:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-335 - Talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-05-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-335 - Talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-05-06]. ←
18:19:12 <schneid> subtopic: Progress Report
18:19:15 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
18:19:15 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:19:19 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:19:28 <bijan> I wrote tests!
Bijan Parsia: I wrote tests! ←
18:19:46 <schneid> msmith: little bit of progress, new page on wiki showing results for pellet and hermit
Mike Smith: little bit of progress, new page on wiki showing results for pellet and hermit ←
18:19:57 <bijan> Pointer to those tests?
Bijan Parsia: Pointer to those tests? ←
18:20:01 <bijan> result?
Bijan Parsia: result? ←
18:20:05 <pfps> is there a link from the home page or LHS of the wiki to the current test status?
Peter Patel-Schneider: is there a link from the home page or LHS of the wiki to the current test status? ←
18:20:06 <schneid> msmith: some new tests, and some changed status
Mike Smith: some new tests, and some changed status ←
18:20:25 <schneid> msmith: new page showing coverage of the language
Mike Smith: new page showing coverage of the language ←
18:20:42 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status
Mike Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status ←
18:20:53 <schneid> ian: how many tests do we have now?
Ian Horrocks: how many tests do we have now? ←
18:21:18 <schneid> ian: do we have one test for each construct?
Ian Horrocks: do we have one test for each construct? ←
18:21:35 <bijan> I have them
Bijan Parsia: I have them ←
18:21:46 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status
Mike Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status ←
18:22:01 <schneid> ian: what about results and putting on wiki?
Ian Horrocks: what about results and putting on wiki? ←
18:22:15 <schneid> bijan: that's what the status page is about
Bijan Parsia: that's what the status page is about ←
18:22:50 <schneid> msmith: there is an "incomplete" result type, including timeout etc
Mike Smith: there is an "incomplete" result type, including timeout etc ←
18:22:59 <schneid> ian: what about "extra credit"?
Ian Horrocks: what about "extra credit"? ←
18:23:22 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:23:27 <schneid> ian: looks better when exiting cr
Ian Horrocks: looks better when exiting cr ←
18:23:47 <schneid> bijan: we should make sure to cover all syntactic features
Bijan Parsia: we should make sure to cover all syntactic features ←
18:23:51 <msmith> ok
Mike Smith: ok ←
18:23:55 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
18:24:03 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:24:17 <bijan> 1 reasoner does it :)
Bijan Parsia: 1 reasoner does it :) ←
18:24:36 <schneid> msmith: how do we get "extra credit" testcases?
Mike Smith: how do we get "extra credit" testcases? ←
18:26:15 <schneid> ian: let's defer syntactic tests: TC is short on time, and alanr is not here
Ian Horrocks: let's defer syntactic tests: TC is short on time, and alanr is not here ←
18:26:33 <schneid> topic: AOB
18:26:50 <schneid> ian: we're done
Ian Horrocks: we're done ←
18:26:57 <Zhe> bye
18:26:59 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
18:27:00 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
18:27:01 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
18:27:03 <Zakim> -baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie ←
18:27:05 <zimmer> bye
Antoine Zimmermann: bye ←
18:27:06 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
18:27:10 <sebastian> Bye.
Sebastian Rudolph: Bye. ←
18:27:11 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau ←
18:27:16 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
18:27:31 <Zakim> -zimmer
Zakim IRC Bot: -zimmer ←
18:27:31 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public ←
18:28:32 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
18:28:38 <Zakim> -Ian_Horrocks
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ian_Horrocks ←
18:28:43 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
18:28:44 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
18:28:46 <Zakim> -uli
Zakim IRC Bot: -uli ←
18:28:56 <Zakim> -sebastian
Zakim IRC Bot: -sebastian ←
18:29:19 <Zakim> -??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22 ←
18:29:45 <Zakim> -schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid ←
18:29:46 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended ←
18:29:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Ian_Horrocks, [IPcaller], pfps, +1.202.408.aabb, msmith, +1.518.276.aacc, Zhe, baojie, bijan, uli, schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan, sebastian, zimmer, bmotik,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ian_Horrocks, [IPcaller], pfps, +1.202.408.aabb, msmith, +1.518.276.aacc, Zhe, baojie, bijan, uli, schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan, sebastian, zimmer, bmotik, ←
18:29:51 <Zakim> ... Achille, bcuencagrau, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Achille, bcuencagrau, Sandro ←
18:41:27 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
(No events recorded for 11 minutes)
Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#3) generated 2009-05-05 13:14:03 UTC by 'ihorrock2', comments: None