OWL Working Group

Minutes of 29 April 2009

Present
Achille Fokoue, Antoine Zimmermann, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Bijan Parsia, Boris Motik, Christine Golbreich, Deborah McGuinness, Ian Horrocks, Ivan Herman, Jie Bao, Mike Smith, Peter Patel-Schneider, Sandro Hawke, Sebastian Rudolph, Uli Sattler, Michael Schneider, Zhe Wu
Regrets
Markus Krötzsch, Evan Wallace, Elisa Kendall, Rinke Hoekstra
Chair
Ian Horrocks
Scribe
Michael Schneider
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R. link
Topics
00:00:00 <schneid> present: Achille Fokoue, Antoine Zimmermann, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Bijan Parsia, Boris Motik, Christine Golbreich, Deborah McGuinness, Ian Horrocks, Ivan Herman, Jie Bao, Mike Smith, Peter Patel-Schneider, Sandro Hawke, Sebastian Rudolph, Uli Sattler, Michael Schneider, Zhe Wu
00:00:00 <schneid> chair: Ian Horrocks
00:00:00 <schneid> scribe: Michael Schneider

(Scribe set to Michael Schneider)

00:00:00 <schneid> regrets: Markus Krötzsch, Evan Wallace, Elisa Kendall, Rinke Hoekstra
16:56:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-owl-irc

(No events recorded for 1016 minutes)

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-owl-irc

16:56:37 <IanH> Zakim, this will be owlwg

Ian Horrocks: Zakim, this will be owlwg

16:56:37 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

16:56:51 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.04.29/Agenda

Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.04.29/Agenda

16:58:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

16:58:28 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH

16:58:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

16:59:45 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

16:59:45 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH

16:59:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

17:00:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:00:28 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH

17:00:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

17:00:36 <bijan> zakim, what time is it?

Bijan Parsia: zakim, what time is it?

17:00:36 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bijan.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, bijan.

17:00:42 <IanH> zakim, this is owl

Ian Horrocks: zakim, this is owl

17:00:42 <Zakim> ok, IanH; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM

17:00:50 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:00:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, ??P30, [IPcaller], pfps, ??P0, +1.202.408.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, ??P30, [IPcaller], pfps, ??P0, +1.202.408.aabb

17:00:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

17:01:07 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

17:01:33 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aacc

17:01:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aadd

17:01:51 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me

17:01:51 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it

17:01:57 <baojie> Zakim, aacc is me

Jie Bao: Zakim, aacc is me

17:01:57 <Zakim> +baojie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie; got it

17:01:57 <Zhe> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

17:01:58 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted

17:02:15 <bijan> zakim, ??p30 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p30 is me

17:02:16 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

17:02:19 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it

17:02:21 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:02:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, bijan, pfps, ??P0, msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), ??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, bijan, pfps, ??P0, msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), ??P17

17:02:25 <uli> zakim, ??P0 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P0 is me

17:02:31 <schneid> zakim, ??P17 is me

zakim, ??P17 is me

17:02:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

17:02:35 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it

17:02:37 <Zakim> +schneid; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it

17:02:41 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

17:02:45 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

17:02:49 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaee

17:02:50 <schneid> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me

17:02:53 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

17:02:58 <IanH> ScribeNick: schneid
17:03:03 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

17:03:04 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

zakim, unmute me

17:03:06 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

17:03:07 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

17:03:09 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

17:03:17 <sebastian> zakim, ??P26 is me

Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, ??P26 is me

17:03:23 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

17:03:26 <Zakim> +sebastian; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +sebastian; got it

17:03:28 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

17:03:29 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, sebastian, bijan, pfps, uli (muted), msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, sebastian, bijan, pfps, uli (muted), msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan (muted)

17:03:32 <schneid> topic: Admin

1. Admin

17:03:35 <schneid> subtopic: Role Call

1.1. Role Call

17:03:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see bmotik, Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bmotik, Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot

17:03:39 <zimmer> Zakim, +03539149aaaa is me

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, +03539149aaaa is me

17:03:40 <sebastian> zakim, mute me

Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, mute me

17:03:42 <Zakim> +zimmer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zimmer; got it

17:03:46 <Zakim> sebastian should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should now be muted

17:03:48 <Zakim> + +0186528aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aaff

17:03:52 <schneid> subtopic: Agenda Amendments

1.2. Agenda Amendments

17:04:01 <bmotik> Zakim, +0186528aaff is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, +0186528aaff is me

17:04:01 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it

17:04:04 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

17:04:05 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:04:08 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:04:14 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

17:04:15 <Achille> zakim, ibm is me

Achille Fokoue: zakim, ibm is me

17:04:16 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it

17:04:16 <schneid> ian: QRG discussion at beginning, because some champions will have to leave soon

Ian Horrocks: QRG discussion at beginning, because some champions will have to leave soon

17:04:22 <schneid> subtopic: Accept Previous Minutes

1.3. Accept Previous Minutes

17:04:24 <msmith> they are not so good

Mike Smith: they are not so good

17:04:24 <pfps> minutes looked OK by me

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes looked OK by me

17:04:35 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

17:05:11 <msmith> q-

Mike Smith: q-

17:05:12 <uli> ...perhaps Peter doesn't mind  things petering out?

Uli Sattler: ...perhaps Peter doesn't mind things petering out?

17:05:12 <schneid> msmith: large parts have no scribing, only irc chat

Mike Smith: large parts have no scribing, only irc chat

17:05:25 <schneid> christine: it was difficult to write at the end

Christine Golbreich: it was difficult to write at the end

17:05:47 <schneid> ian: christine, could you again clean it up a bit

Ian Horrocks: christine, could you again clean it up a bit

17:05:50 <schneid> christine: i did

Christine Golbreich: i did

17:05:54 <Zakim> +bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a

17:06:00 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, bmotik.a is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, bmotik.a is me

17:06:00 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it

17:06:06 <schneid> christine: can anyone help me with clean up?

Christine Golbreich: can anyone help me with clean up?

17:06:17 <pfps> I don't think that there is anything particularly important missing.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't think that there is anything particularly important missing.

17:06:20 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me

17:06:20 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

17:06:24 <schneid> ian: trouble is that there is not much there to clean up

Ian Horrocks: trouble is that there is not much there to clean up

17:06:25 <msmith> ok by me

Mike Smith: ok by me

17:06:32 <schneid> ian: should we just accept them as they are?

Ian Horrocks: should we just accept them as they are?

17:06:46 <schneid> ian: if no one objects, then accept them

Ian Horrocks: if no one objects, then accept them

17:06:59 <schneid> subtopic: Action Item Status

1.4. Action Item Status

17:07:28 <schneid> ian: peter did Action 332

Ian Horrocks: peter did ACTION-332

17:07:50 <schneid> ian: Action 333, review of NF&R: next week

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-333, review of NF&R: next week

17:08:00 <schneid> topic: Documents and Reviewing

2. Documents and Reviewing

17:08:05 <schneid> subtopic: LC Comments on rdf:text

2.1. LC Comments on rdf:text

17:08:09 <schneid> ian: we got comment on rdf:text

Ian Horrocks: we got comment on rdf:text

17:08:13 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:08:19 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

17:08:21 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

17:08:29 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:08:30 <schneid> ian: don't know perfectly how to deal with these comments

Ian Horrocks: don't know perfectly how to deal with these comments

17:08:46 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:08:49 <ivan> zakim, unmute ivan

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute ivan

17:08:49 <Zakim> Ivan was not muted, ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan was not muted, ivan

17:08:51 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:09:13 <schneid> bijan: it's highly likely the sparql wg will have a comment on rdf:text

Bijan Parsia: it's highly likely the sparql wg will have a comment on rdf:text

17:09:56 <schneid> bijan: i was talking to andy seaborne, who is main pusher, and he thinks that comment will not be LC regeneration comment

Bijan Parsia: i was talking to andy seaborne, who is main pusher, and he thinks that comment will not be LC regeneration comment

17:09:58 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

17:10:07 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

17:10:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

17:10:09 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

17:10:13 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

17:10:34 <schneid> ian: hasn't andy seaborne reviewed it already?

Ian Horrocks: hasn't andy seaborne reviewed it already?

17:10:35 <sandro> (sorry I'm late.)

Sandro Hawke: (sorry I'm late.)

17:10:43 <schneid> bijan: yes, but not from the sparql perspective

Bijan Parsia: yes, but not from the sparql perspective

17:11:22 <schneid> bijan: there may be things that are surprising to him, and that he did not thought about before

Bijan Parsia: there may be things that are surprising to him, and that he did not thought about before

17:11:48 <schneid> ian: who do we have to work on rdf:text?

Ian Horrocks: who do we have to work on rdf:text?

17:11:52 <bijan> One thread: <http://www.w3.org/mid/49F6C028.1000006@deri.org>

Bijan Parsia: One thread: <http://www.w3.org/mid/49F6C028.1000006@deri.org>

17:11:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:12:00 <schneid> ian: probably boris

Ian Horrocks: probably boris

17:12:26 <schneid> ivan: axel polleres is both editor of rdf:text and he is on the sparql wg

Ivan Herman: axel polleres is both editor of rdf:text and he is on the sparql wg

17:12:48 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

17:12:49 <schneid> ivan: believes that axel is trying to take action on this

Ivan Herman: believes that axel is trying to take action on this

17:12:51 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:12:51 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:12:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:12:55 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

17:13:06 <schneid> ian: and we can wait one more week to see what happens

Ian Horrocks: and we can wait one more week to see what happens

17:13:23 <schneid> boris: axel has already made some smaller changes to the document

Boris Motik: axel has already made some smaller changes to the document

17:13:29 <bijan> Him

Bijan Parsia: Him

17:13:40 <schneid> ian: we already have a comment on rdf:text

Ian Horrocks: we already have a comment on rdf:text

17:13:42 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

17:13:47 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

17:13:59 <schneid> boris: i made an informal comment to him

Boris Motik: i made an informal comment to him

17:14:16 <schneid> boris: made clear that is personal response

Boris Motik: made clear that is personal response

17:14:25 <sandro> (boris' reply to Michael was good, and a good thing to do.)

Sandro Hawke: (boris' reply to Michael was good, and a good thing to do.)

17:14:33 <schneid> boris: this guy was complaining about the "#"

Boris Motik: this guy was complaining about the "#"

17:14:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:15:27 <schneid> boris: we maybe have to change the document to talk about qnames, but don't know how to do it exactly

Boris Motik: we maybe have to change the document to talk about qnames, but don't know how to do it exactly

17:15:30 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:15:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:15:40 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:15:50 <schneid> ian: can we have some try in the wiki?

Ian Horrocks: can we have some try in the wiki?

17:17:12 <schneid> subtopic: QRG (Agenda Amendment)

2.2. QRG (Agenda Amendment)

17:17:35 <schneid> ian: we forgot about the agenda amendmend: QRG

Ian Horrocks: we forgot about the agenda amendmend: QRG

17:17:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:18:00 <schneid> jie: peter made several comments, many editorial

Jie Bao: peter made several comments, many editorial

17:18:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:19:06 <schneid> jie: links to other documents may be useful to new users

Jie Bao: links to other documents may be useful to new users

17:19:22 <schneid> jie: specifically the links to the primer

Jie Bao: specifically the links to the primer

17:20:14 <schneid> ian: is the QRG close to ship?

Ian Horrocks: is the QRG close to ship?

17:20:17 <pfps> QRG is missing some constructs, still, I think

Peter Patel-Schneider: QRG is missing some constructs, still, I think

17:20:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:20:23 <schneid> jie: the web version seems close

Jie Bao: the web version seems close

17:20:28 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:20:28 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to ask about why it would useful to users new to owl altogether

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to ask about why it would useful to users new to owl altogether

17:20:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:21:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:21:37 <schneid> jie: people coming from owl 1 will find helpful links to NF&R to understand the changes

Jie Bao: people coming from owl 1 will find helpful links to NF&R to understand the changes

17:21:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:21:54 <bijan> I'm against the links to Primer too

Bijan Parsia: I'm against the links to Primer too

17:21:58 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

17:22:01 <bijan> But I was confused by what Jie said

Bijan Parsia: But I was confused by what Jie said

17:22:01 <schneid> christine: those links are useful

Christine Golbreich: those links are useful

17:22:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:22:27 <schneid> christine: first they are harmless

Christine Golbreich: first they are harmless

17:22:37 <schneid> christine: second helpful for navigation

Christine Golbreich: second helpful for navigation

17:22:48 <bijan> Some of us don't think they are harmless

Bijan Parsia: Some of us don't think they are harmless

17:23:03 <schneid> christine: we should focus on content of document, not so much on the links

Christine Golbreich: we should focus on content of document, not so much on the links

17:23:22 <bijan> (Links are part of the content as well.)

Bijan Parsia: (Links are part of the content as well.)

17:23:34 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

17:23:40 <schneid> ian: only trouble, there needs to be actual means for the links [FIXME]

Ian Horrocks: only trouble, there needs to be actual means for the links [FIXME]

17:24:14 <uli> +1 to Peter: I thought these links would be "arguments"!

Uli Sattler: +1 to Peter: I thought these links would be "arguments"!

17:24:21 <schneid> pfps: disagrees with christine, they are harmful, introduce bloat, and extra bits are not part of the natural structure of the document

Peter Patel-Schneider: disagrees with christine, they are harmful, introduce bloat, and extra bits are not part of the natural structure of the document

17:24:28 <IanH> ack baojie

Ian Horrocks: ack baojie

17:24:47 <bijan> Also, I think the "new" will get dated

Bijan Parsia: Also, I think the "new" will get dated

17:24:49 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:24:56 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:24:57 <uli> q+

Uli Sattler: q+

17:25:08 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q-

17:25:16 <bijan> I'll just say that the "new" bits will get dated over time

Bijan Parsia: I'll just say that the "new" bits will get dated over time

17:25:33 <bijan> They won't be "new", so it's bad to *highlight* them

Bijan Parsia: They won't be "new", so it's bad to *highlight* them

17:25:50 <schneid> ian: modulo links, are people currently happy with the document?

Ian Horrocks: modulo links, are people currently happy with the document?

17:25:57 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

17:25:57 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted

17:25:58 <IanH> ack uli

Ian Horrocks: ack uli

17:26:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:26:48 <schneid> uli: i'm a bit puzzled because of the links, since the QRG was designed to be printed to paper, used offline at desktop, where there are no links

Uli Sattler: i'm a bit puzzled because of the links, since the QRG was designed to be printed to paper, used offline at desktop, where there are no links

17:27:09 <pfps> I also do not like the top-level divisions, and have expressed this in the past

Peter Patel-Schneider: I also do not like the top-level divisions, and have expressed this in the past

17:27:23 <bijan> q+ I think I should say it

Bijan Parsia: q+ I think I should say it

17:27:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:27:54 <IanH> ack christine

Ian Horrocks: ack christine

17:28:23 <DeborahM> q+

Deborah McGuinness: q+

17:28:28 <schneid> christine: question, is it the fact that we don't want to point to the NF&R?

Christine Golbreich: question, is it the fact that we don't want to point to the NF&R?

17:28:44 <bijan> q+ to talk against highlighting new features

Bijan Parsia: q+ to talk against highlighting new features

17:28:51 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

17:28:51 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

17:28:55 <pfps> The NF&R pointers are bad in two ways - 1/ the "anchor" is distracting, 2/ the link itself is of very limited utility

Peter Patel-Schneider: The NF&R pointers are bad in two ways - 1/ the "anchor" is distracting, 2/ the link itself is of very limited utility

17:29:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:29:25 <schneid> ian: there's no other purpose of the things in the document than pointing to the NF&R [fixme]

Ian Horrocks: there's no other purpose of the things in the document than pointing to the NF&R [fixme]

17:29:31 <IanH> ack baojie

Ian Horrocks: ack baojie

17:29:50 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:29:51 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:30:04 <uli> ok

Uli Sattler: ok

17:30:11 <schneid> jie: if we have www version with links, and pdf version without

Jie Bao: if we have www version with links, and pdf version without

17:30:12 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:30:22 <schneid> jie: that's technically doable

Jie Bao: that's technically doable

17:30:25 <pfps> But the PDF version should have links!  Just when printed they don't work.

Peter Patel-Schneider: But the PDF version should have links! Just when printed they don't work.

17:30:26 <IanH> ack DeborahM

Ian Horrocks: ack DeborahM

17:30:42 <bijan> It's easy with a stylesheet to target print vs. screen

Bijan Parsia: It's easy with a stylesheet to target print vs. screen

17:30:44 <pfps> q+ to remind us of the goals for QRG

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to remind us of the goals for QRG

17:30:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:30:58 <schneid> deb: my reading of the comments is that we have general agreement on the document's content

Deborah McGuinness: my reading of the comments is that we have general agreement on the document's content

17:31:29 <schneid> deb: editors think that there should be a web version with and pdf version without links

Deborah McGuinness: editors think that there should be a web version with and pdf version without links

17:31:34 <uli> sure - but I repeat Bijan's point: the NF&R links will 'outdate'?

Uli Sattler: sure - but I repeat Bijan's point: the NF&R links will 'outdate'?

17:31:41 <schneid> deb: believe that more links in the web version are good

Deborah McGuinness: believe that more links in the web version are good

17:32:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:32:06 <baojie> ok

Jie Bao: ok

17:32:12 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:32:12 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to talk against highlighting new features

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to talk against highlighting new features

17:32:14 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

17:32:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:32:15 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

17:32:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:33:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:33:07 <schneid> bijan: highlighting new features is not a good idea for this document, because users should not care about this

Bijan Parsia: highlighting new features is not a good idea for this document, because users should not care about this

17:33:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:33:24 <schneid> bijan: so isn't the highlighting already harmful

Bijan Parsia: so isn't the highlighting already harmful

17:33:33 <IanH> ack christine

Ian Horrocks: ack christine

17:34:30 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

17:35:05 <sandro> maybe time for a straw poll?

Sandro Hawke: maybe time for a straw poll?

17:35:12 <schneid> pfps: issue is that we should come up with a document that is a real recommendation for people

Peter Patel-Schneider: issue is that we should come up with a document that is a real recommendation for people

17:35:18 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:35:27 <bijan> I wonder if the authors could address my point that highlighting new things might be overall bad

Bijan Parsia: I wonder if the authors could address my point that highlighting new things might be overall bad

17:35:27 <schneid> pfps: not to make all wg members happy

Peter Patel-Schneider: not to make all wg members happy

17:35:39 <bijan> Because they overemphasize them

Bijan Parsia: Because they overemphasize them

17:35:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:35:46 <schneid> pfps: there are still missing features, e.g. datatype definitions

Peter Patel-Schneider: there are still missing features, e.g. datatype definitions

17:36:08 <schneid> pfps: lots has changed

Peter Patel-Schneider: lots has changed

17:36:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:36:30 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:36:35 <schneid> ian: what about overall structure?

Ian Horrocks: what about overall structure?

17:36:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:36:44 <IanH> ack christine

Ian Horrocks: ack christine

17:37:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:37:17 <IanH> ack baojie

Ian Horrocks: ack baojie

17:37:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:37:29 <schneid> christine: question about functional syntax

Christine Golbreich: question about functional syntax

17:37:36 <bijan> I like the letters

Bijan Parsia: I like the letters

17:37:42 <bijan> Easier to pattern match

Bijan Parsia: Easier to pattern match

17:37:49 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:37:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:38:04 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:38:06 <pfps> possibly missing features - datatype definitions

Peter Patel-Schneider: possibly missing features - datatype definitions

17:38:07 <christine> OPE

Christine Golbreich: OPE

17:38:16 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:38:20 <baojie> +1 to bijan

Jie Bao: +1 to bijan

17:38:21 <schneid> jie: letter sequence "ce" makes printout larger [FIXME]

Jie Bao: letter sequence "ce" makes printout larger [FIXME]

17:38:31 <bijan> MInor indeed

Bijan Parsia: MInor indeed

17:38:41 <schneid> ian: all these things are editorially and minor

Ian Horrocks: all these things are editorially and minor

17:38:44 <pfps> the basic outline is acceptable

Peter Patel-Schneider: the basic outline is acceptable

17:38:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:39:07 <schneid> ian: i don't hear anyone talking against general structure

Ian Horrocks: i don't hear anyone talking against general structure

17:39:20 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:39:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:39:24 <christine> Evan is not there

Christine Golbreich: Evan is not there

17:39:30 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:39:36 <schneid> ian: we should have a decision on the more concrete technical issues

Ian Horrocks: we should have a decision on the more concrete technical issues

17:39:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:39:57 <msmith> +1 to bijan's suggestion

Mike Smith: +1 to bijan's suggestion

17:40:09 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:40:09 <christine> what suggestion ?

Christine Golbreich: what suggestion ?

17:40:11 <schneid> bijan: want's to hear from editors about suggestion /not/ to highlight new features

Bijan Parsia: want's to hear from editors about suggestion /not/ to highlight new features

17:40:26 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:40:29 <msmith> I agree with the suggestion that new features should not be highlighted in QRG

Mike Smith: I agree with the suggestion that new features should not be highlighted in QRG

17:40:34 <sandro> +1 to not having the new-feature high-lighting.

Sandro Hawke: +1 to not having the new-feature high-lighting.

17:40:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:40:38 <uli> me too

Uli Sattler: me too

17:40:39 <schneid> bijan: if you are using this card for two years, do you still care about new features being highlighted?

Bijan Parsia: if you are using this card for two years, do you still care about new features being highlighted?

17:40:41 <christine> but keep (N) ?

Christine Golbreich: but keep (N) ?

17:40:51 <pfps> this document is a QRG to *OWL 2* so highlighting the differences only detracts from its utility

Peter Patel-Schneider: this document is a QRG to *OWL 2* so highlighting the differences only detracts from its utility

17:41:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:41:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:41:35 <DeborahM> my summary of what i heard is (1) make sure we address pfps's content suggestions, possibly a suggestion from uli on a small reorganization, (3) leave short names for the momentbut possibly expand if working group decide

Deborah McGuinness: my summary of what i heard is (1) make sure we address pfps's content suggestions, possibly a suggestion from uli on a small reorganization, (3) leave short names for the momentbut possibly expand if working group decide

17:41:41 <DeborahM> q+

Deborah McGuinness: q+

17:42:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:42:28 <pfps> uli's suggestion would require a reordering of the document and a redo of the sections, but little more, I thin

Peter Patel-Schneider: uli's suggestion would require a reordering of the document and a redo of the sections, but little more, I thin

17:42:48 <IanH> ack DeborahM

Ian Horrocks: ack DeborahM

17:42:50 <Zhe> it is such a subjective matter :)

Zhe Wu: it is such a subjective matter :)

17:42:59 <christine> what about linking to NF&R for new features instead of Primer ?

Christine Golbreich: what about linking to NF&R for new features instead of Primer ?

17:43:30 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:43:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:43:40 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

17:43:56 <bijan> Or one could have a toggle

Bijan Parsia: Or one could have a toggle

17:43:59 <schneid> deb: sees a point with bijan's argument, bold too much, but no mentioning of new features is too less

Deborah McGuinness: sees a point with bijan's argument, bold too much, but no mentioning of new features is too less

17:44:00 <pfps> -1 to separate list on web version

Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 to separate list on web version

17:44:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:44:14 <DeborahM> +1 to ivan  (with that list including links)

Deborah McGuinness: +1 to ivan (with that list including links)

17:44:17 <schneid> ivan: what about only having mentioning the new features on the web version

Ivan Herman: what about only having mentioning the new features on the web version

17:44:28 <uli> -1 to even more docs

Uli Sattler: -1 to even more docs

17:44:33 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:44:39 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:44:39 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to suggest a toggle

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to suggest a toggle

17:44:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:44:51 <pfps> -1 to toggling

Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 to toggling

17:44:58 <schneid> bijan: what about making the highlighting toggleable?

Bijan Parsia: what about making the highlighting toggleable?

17:45:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:45:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:45:38 <christine> +1 Ivan

Christine Golbreich: +1 Ivan

17:46:06 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:46:11 <bijan> I can live with it

Bijan Parsia: I can live with it

17:46:20 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

17:46:23 <baojie> ok with it

Jie Bao: ok with it

17:46:25 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

17:46:30 <DeborahM> i can live with ivan's or bijan's suggestion

Deborah McGuinness: i can live with ivan's or bijan's suggestion

17:46:41 <schneid> ian: ivan's proposal sounds most acceptable to most of us

Ian Horrocks: ivan's proposal sounds most acceptable to most of us

17:46:54 <msmith> I agree with pfps, but can live with the suggestion.

Mike Smith: I agree with pfps, but can live with the suggestion.

17:47:06 <bmotik> I agree with peter here.

Boris Motik: I agree with peter here.

17:47:10 <schneid> pfps: new'ness is not a point for this particular document

Peter Patel-Schneider: new'ness is not a point for this particular document

17:47:10 <bijan> I agree with pfps, but am with msmith

Bijan Parsia: I agree with pfps, but am with msmith

17:47:22 <bmotik> In a year from now, all features will be old (and dusty).

Boris Motik: In a year from now, all features will be old (and dusty).

17:47:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:47:25 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

17:47:32 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:47:37 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

17:47:39 <IanH> ack christine

Ian Horrocks: ack christine

17:48:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:49:02 <DeborahM> i have to run now.  if we vote for ivan's suggestion i vote +1 for that but can also support bijan's toggling proposal

Deborah McGuinness: i have to run now. if we vote for ivan's suggestion i vote +1 for that but can also support bijan's toggling proposal

17:49:09 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:49:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:50:11 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaee

17:50:14 <schneid> bijan: prefers toggle, because it's weird to have information in the web version which is not in the paper version, when the paper version is the real target document

Bijan Parsia: prefers toggle, because it's weird to have information in the web version which is not in the paper version, when the paper version is the real target document

17:50:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:50:27 <pfps> I've been most in favour of making this document something that lives in the WG web pages, and is not a TR at all.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I've been most in favour of making this document something that lives in the WG web pages, and is not a TR at all.

17:50:34 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:50:44 <schneid> bijan: having a separate list is getting into other documents responsibility

Bijan Parsia: having a separate list is getting into other documents responsibility

17:51:00 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:51:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:51:20 <schneid> pfps: it's meant to be a simple document, but with toggles

Peter Patel-Schneider: it's meant to be a simple document, but with toggles

17:51:35 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:51:38 <schneid> bijan: is this particular thing such a problem?

Bijan Parsia: is this particular thing such a problem?

17:51:40 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

17:52:01 <schneid> pfps: toggle would need additional space

Peter Patel-Schneider: toggle would need additional space

17:52:08 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:52:15 <schneid> bijan: there is already additional stuff in the web version

Bijan Parsia: there is already additional stuff in the web version

17:52:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:52:43 <schneid> bijan: but links to NF&R in print version do not make much sense in genaral

Bijan Parsia: but links to NF&R in print version do not make much sense in genaral

17:53:11 <ivan> I am o.k. with bijan

Ivan Herman: I am o.k. with bijan

17:53:16 <schneid> bijan: deb said she can live with both bijan's and ivan's suggestion

Bijan Parsia: deb said she can live with both bijan's and ivan's suggestion

17:53:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:53:46 <schneid> christine: decision will affect NF&R

Christine Golbreich: decision will affect NF&R

17:53:53 <bijan> How does it affect NF&R?

Bijan Parsia: How does it affect NF&R?

17:54:05 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:54:10 <ivan> ack christine

Ivan Herman: ack christine

17:54:13 <uli> christine, toggle means 'switch-offable'

Uli Sattler: christine, toggle means 'switch-offable'

17:54:17 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:54:17 <uli> and switch-onable

Uli Sattler: and switch-onable

17:54:18 <pfps> the decision should be made today, as after we make the decision the document has to be fixed up

Peter Patel-Schneider: the decision should be made today, as after we make the decision the document has to be fixed up

17:54:42 <uli> (1) toggle (2) extra list

Uli Sattler: (1) toggle (2) extra list

17:54:49 <uli> (3) as it is

Uli Sattler: (3) as it is

17:55:01 <christine> how make switc-offable ?

Christine Golbreich: how make switc-offable ?

17:55:02 <uli> (4) throw all refs to new features away

Uli Sattler: (4) throw all refs to new features away

17:55:06 <msmith> 4,1,2,3

Mike Smith: 4,1,2,3

17:55:15 <bijan> 4,1,-,-

Bijan Parsia: 4,1,-,-

17:55:22 <baojie> 2,1,3

Jie Bao: 2,1,3

17:55:26 <schneid>  schneid: 4,1,2,3

schneid: 4,1,2,3

17:55:26 <bmotik> 4,-,-,-

Boris Motik: 4,-,-,-

17:55:27 <pfps> 4,-,-,-

Peter Patel-Schneider: 4,-,-,-

17:55:27 <zimmer> 1, 3, 4, 2

Antoine Zimmermann: 1, 3, 4, 2

17:55:33 <bcuencagrau> 4,2,1,3

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 4,2,1,3

17:55:33 <sandro> 2,1,3

Sandro Hawke: 2,1,3

17:55:34 <ivan> 2143

Ivan Herman: 2143

17:55:38 <christine> 1

Christine Golbreich: 1

17:55:40 <Zhe> 2, 3, 1, 4

Zhe Wu: 2, 3, 1, 4

17:55:42 <uli> 4,1,2

Uli Sattler: 4,1,2

17:55:43 <IanH> 4,2,1,3

Ian Horrocks: 4,2,1,3

17:55:51 <Achille> 2,1

Achille Fokoue: 2,1

17:56:23 <uli> we could have a togglable extra list?

Uli Sattler: we could have a togglable extra list?

17:56:35 <uli> we can!

Uli Sattler: we can!

17:56:38 <schneid> ian: no one wan't leave things as they are

Ian Horrocks: no one wan't leave things as they are

17:57:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:57:27 <schneid> ian: we have either throw everything away or have the list

Ian Horrocks: we have either throw everything away or have the list

17:57:37 <schneid> bijan: often, the second choice was "toggle"

Bijan Parsia: often, the second choice was "toggle"

17:58:06 <schneid> ian: not so easy to do good quick statistical analysis

Ian Horrocks: not so easy to do good quick statistical analysis

17:58:22 <schneid> ian: nobody likes 3 ("keep as is")

Ian Horrocks: nobody likes 3 ("keep as is")

17:58:30 <schneid> ian: so let's again vote for only 1, 2 and 4

Ian Horrocks: so let's again vote for only 1, 2 and 4

17:58:31 <sandro> strawpoll: (1) toggle, (2) extra list, (4) throw all refs to new features away

STRAWPOLL: (1) toggle, (2) extra list, (4) throw all refs to new features away

17:58:33 <ivan> 214

Ivan Herman: 214

17:58:34 <pfps> 4--

Peter Patel-Schneider: 4--

17:58:37 <bmotik> 4--

Boris Motik: 4--

17:58:41 <bijan> 4,1,-

Bijan Parsia: 4,1,-

17:58:41 <msmith> 4,1,2

Mike Smith: 4,1,2

17:58:41 <uli> 4,1,2

Uli Sattler: 4,1,2

17:58:42 <sebastian> 4,2,1

Sebastian Rudolph: 4,2,1

17:58:44 <baojie> 21-

Jie Bao: 21-

17:58:45 <bcuencagrau> 4,2,1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 4,2,1

17:58:45 <Zhe> 214

Zhe Wu: 214

17:58:46 <zimmer> 1 4

Antoine Zimmermann: 1 4

17:58:49 <IanH> 4,2,1

Ian Horrocks: 4,2,1

17:58:50 <schneid>  schneid: 4,1,2

schneid: 4,1,2

17:58:56 <sandro> 241

Sandro Hawke: 241

17:58:58 <Achille> 2, 1

Achille Fokoue: 2, 1

17:59:12 <christine> 1 2

Christine Golbreich: 1 2

17:59:29 <schneid> ian: a bit more split between 4 and 2, but sees bijan's point

Ian Horrocks: a bit more split between 4 and 2, but sees bijan's point

17:59:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:00:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:00:42 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:01:01 <bijan> Actually, I don't care anymore :)

Bijan Parsia: Actually, I don't care anymore :)

18:01:22 <schneid> ivan: whether it is 1 or 2, there's no big difference, so bijan's proposal would be fine

Ivan Herman: whether it is 1 or 2, there's no big difference, so bijan's proposal would be fine

18:01:27 <bmotik> I won't lie down in the road.

Boris Motik: I won't lie down in the road.

18:01:28 <bijan> What do they prefer, 1 or 2?

Bijan Parsia: What do they prefer, 1 or 2?

18:01:43 <bmotik> I guess 2

Boris Motik: I guess 2

18:01:49 <bijan> Ok, fine

Bijan Parsia: Ok, fine

18:01:51 <bijan> I go for it

Bijan Parsia: I go for it

18:02:05 <IanH> ack christine

Ian Horrocks: ack christine

18:02:23 <uli> christine, open a new connection?

Uli Sattler: christine, open a new connection?

18:02:37 <zimmer> ok for list at the end

Antoine Zimmermann: ok for list at the end

18:02:59 <sandro> strawpoll: list at end

STRAWPOLL: list at end

18:02:59 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

18:03:02 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

18:03:03 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

18:03:04 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:03:09 <IanH> 0

Ian Horrocks: 0

18:03:09 <schneid>  schneid: -0.1

schneid: -0.1

18:03:09 <zimmer> +0.2

Antoine Zimmermann: +0.2

18:03:10 <uli> 0

Uli Sattler: 0

18:03:10 <bijan> +0

Bijan Parsia: +0

18:03:11 <sebastian> 0

Sebastian Rudolph: 0

18:03:11 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

18:03:12 <Achille> 0

Achille Fokoue: 0

18:03:13 <Zhe> 0

Zhe Wu: 0

18:03:14 <msmith> 0

Mike Smith: 0

18:03:16 <pfps> -0, as long as the list is very compact

Peter Patel-Schneider: -0, as long as the list is very compact

18:03:30 <bijan> Make it

Bijan Parsia: Make it

18:03:31 <sandro> 0.5 point font, pfps.

Sandro Hawke: 0.5 point font, pfps.

18:03:46 <sandro> ("point five point"  :-)

Sandro Hawke: ("point five point" :-)

18:05:10 <IanH> All emphasis on and links to new features to go from existing tables. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.

Ian Horrocks: All emphasis on and links to new features to go from existing tables. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.

18:05:24 <pfps> This looks fine.

Peter Patel-Schneider: This looks fine.

18:05:27 <baojie> ok

Jie Bao: ok

18:05:27 <ivan> yep

Ivan Herman: yep

18:05:44 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

18:05:44 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted

18:06:08 <Zhe> :_

Zhe Wu: :_

18:06:11 <sandro> s/to go/will be removed/

Sandro Hawke: s/to go/will be removed/

18:06:21 <msmith> Christine, you may find IRC more reliable if you try a different client, instead of the w3 web cgi.

Mike Smith: Christine, you may find IRC more reliable if you try a different client, instead of the w3 web cgi.

18:06:23 <pfps> As far as I am concerned, this list could even go in the card, if there is space.

Peter Patel-Schneider: As far as I am concerned, this list could even go in the card, if there is space.

18:06:32 <bijan> Yeah, me too

Bijan Parsia: Yeah, me too

18:06:44 <sandro> msmith, Christine can't read that!

Sandro Hawke: msmith, Christine can't read that!

18:07:26 <IanH> PROPOSED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.

PROPOSED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.

18:07:33 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

18:07:33 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

18:07:36 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

18:07:38 <pfps> +0

Peter Patel-Schneider: +0

18:07:45 <Zhe> 0

Zhe Wu: 0

18:07:48 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

18:07:49 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

18:07:51 <sebastian> +0

Sebastian Rudolph: +0

18:07:52 <Achille> 0

Achille Fokoue: 0

18:07:52 <bijan> +0

Bijan Parsia: +0

18:07:54 <msmith> 0

Mike Smith: 0

18:07:55 <zimmer> 0

Antoine Zimmermann: 0

18:07:57 <IanH> 0

Ian Horrocks: 0

18:07:59 <schneid>  schneid: -0

schneid: -0

18:08:01 <bmotik> +0

Boris Motik: +0

18:08:03 <christine> 0

Christine Golbreich: 0

18:08:04 <bcuencagrau> 0

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 0

18:08:10 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:08:28 <IanH> RESOLVED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.

RESOLVED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.

18:08:44 <schneid> ian: is very happy with the resolution

Ian Horrocks: is very happy with the resolution

18:08:50 <baojie> :)

Jie Bao: :)

18:09:27 <schneid> subtopic: OWL LC Comments

2.3. OWL LC Comments

18:09:40 <schneid> ian: anyone other than peter and boris looked at umberto's comments

Ian Horrocks: anyone other than peter and boris looked at umberto's comments

18:09:45 <uli> I did

Uli Sattler: I did

18:09:54 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

18:09:54 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted

18:10:08 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

18:10:08 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

18:10:09 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:10:13 <schneid> uli: drafted responses look fine

Uli Sattler: drafted responses look fine

18:10:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:11:12 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:11:15 <schneid> subtopic: NF&R

2.4. NF&R

18:11:16 <schneid> ian: christine, is NF&R ready to go?

Ian Horrocks: christine, is NF&R ready to go?

18:11:23 <pfps> NF&R is looking quite reasonable

Peter Patel-Schneider: NF&R is looking quite reasonable

18:11:43 <schneid> christine: basically yes, but still have a few questions to peter's comments

Christine Golbreich: basically yes, but still have a few questions to peter's comments

18:11:59 <schneid> ian: ok, please discuss offline

Ian Horrocks: ok, please discuss offline

18:12:07 <sebastian> zakim, unmute me

Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, unmute me

18:12:07 <Zakim> sebastian should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should no longer be muted

18:12:13 <schneid> subtopic: Primer

2.5. Primer

18:12:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:12:34 <bijan> I'm working on it nwo

Bijan Parsia: I'm working on it nwo

18:12:40 <schneid> sebastian: we did quite some work on primer in the last week

Sebastian Rudolph: we did quite some work on primer in the last week

18:12:46 <bijan> Should be done tonight

Bijan Parsia: Should be done tonight

18:13:06 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:13:07 <pfps> Primer needs reviewing

Peter Patel-Schneider: Primer needs reviewing

18:13:10 <schneid> sebastian: there are some things to be done by bijan

Sebastian Rudolph: there are some things to be done by bijan

18:13:18 <pfps> .... not shipping

Peter Patel-Schneider: .... not shipping

18:13:55 <schneid> bijan: there will be perhaps some disagreement about the granularity, but mostly editorial

Bijan Parsia: there will be perhaps some disagreement about the granularity, but mostly editorial

18:14:01 <sebastian> zakim, mute me

Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, mute me

18:14:01 <Zakim> sebastian should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should now be muted

18:14:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:14:09 <schneid> ian: volunteers for reviewing?

Ian Horrocks: volunteers for reviewing?

18:14:35 <schneid> ian: would be due 13 May

Ian Horrocks: would be due 13 May

18:14:38 <msmith> I can review by 13 May

Mike Smith: I can review by 13 May

18:15:13 <pfps> earlier reviews are much better, and more likely to be effective :-)

Peter Patel-Schneider: earlier reviews are much better, and more likely to be effective :-)

18:15:15 <schneid> ian: will take it offline and ask, but msmith will be the number one

Ian Horrocks: will take it offline and ask, but msmith will be the number one

18:15:44 <schneid> topic: Implementation and Test Cases

3. Implementation and Test Cases

18:15:50 <schneid> subtopic: Progress on Tool Support

3.1. Progress on Tool Support

18:15:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:15:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:02 <schneid> ian: there is this validation tool issue

Ian Horrocks: there is this validation tool issue

18:16:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:11 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

18:16:40 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:16:45 <schneid> ian: seems to use the owl api for reading ontologies

Ian Horrocks: seems to use the owl api for reading ontologies

18:17:12 <schneid> msmith: we don't have anything for species validation

Mike Smith: we don't have anything for species validation

18:17:58 <schneid> ian: we would like to have species validation for owl/xml [FIXME]

Ian Horrocks: we would like to have species validation for owl/xml [FIXME]

18:18:19 <schneid> ian: all i know is that some things are repaired away

Ian Horrocks: all i know is that some things are repaired away

18:18:59 <schneid> ian: can we talk to owl api people to have some strict mode?

Ian Horrocks: can we talk to owl api people to have some strict mode?

18:19:11 <msmith> action bijan to talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing

Mike Smith: action bijan to talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing

18:19:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-335 - Talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-05-06].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-335 - Talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-05-06].

18:19:12 <schneid> subtopic: Progress Report

3.2. Progress Report

18:19:15 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

18:19:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:19:19 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:19:28 <bijan> I wrote tests!

Bijan Parsia: I wrote tests!

18:19:46 <schneid> msmith: little bit of progress, new page on wiki showing results for pellet and hermit

Mike Smith: little bit of progress, new page on wiki showing results for pellet and hermit

18:19:57 <bijan> Pointer to those tests?

Bijan Parsia: Pointer to those tests?

18:20:01 <bijan> result?

Bijan Parsia: result?

18:20:05 <pfps> is there a link from the home page or LHS of the wiki to the current test status?

Peter Patel-Schneider: is there a link from the home page or LHS of the wiki to the current test status?

18:20:06 <schneid> msmith: some new tests, and some changed status

Mike Smith: some new tests, and some changed status

18:20:25 <schneid> msmith: new page showing coverage of the language

Mike Smith: new page showing coverage of the language

18:20:42 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status

Mike Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status

18:20:53 <schneid> ian: how many tests do we have now?

Ian Horrocks: how many tests do we have now?

18:21:18 <schneid> ian: do we have one test for each construct?

Ian Horrocks: do we have one test for each construct?

18:21:35 <bijan> I have them

Bijan Parsia: I have them

18:21:46 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status

Mike Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status

18:22:01 <schneid> ian: what about results and putting on wiki?

Ian Horrocks: what about results and putting on wiki?

18:22:15 <schneid> bijan: that's what the status page is about

Bijan Parsia: that's what the status page is about

18:22:50 <schneid> msmith: there is an "incomplete" result type, including timeout etc

Mike Smith: there is an "incomplete" result type, including timeout etc

18:22:59 <schneid> ian: what about "extra credit"?

Ian Horrocks: what about "extra credit"?

18:23:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:23:27 <schneid> ian: looks better when exiting cr

Ian Horrocks: looks better when exiting cr

18:23:47 <schneid> bijan: we should make sure to cover all syntactic features

Bijan Parsia: we should make sure to cover all syntactic features

18:23:51 <msmith> ok

Mike Smith: ok

18:23:55 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

18:24:03 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:24:17 <bijan> 1 reasoner does it :)

Bijan Parsia: 1 reasoner does it :)

18:24:36 <schneid> msmith: how do we get "extra credit" testcases?

Mike Smith: how do we get "extra credit" testcases?

18:26:15 <schneid> ian: let's defer syntactic tests: TC is short on time, and alanr is not here

Ian Horrocks: let's defer syntactic tests: TC is short on time, and alanr is not here

18:26:33 <schneid> topic: AOB

4. AOB

18:26:50 <schneid> ian: we're done

Ian Horrocks: we're done

18:26:57 <Zhe> bye

Zhe Wu: bye

18:26:59 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

18:27:00 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan

18:27:01 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith

18:27:03 <Zakim> -baojie

Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie

18:27:05 <zimmer> bye

Antoine Zimmermann: bye

18:27:06 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille

18:27:10 <sebastian> Bye.

Sebastian Rudolph: Bye.

18:27:11 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau

Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau

18:27:16 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe

18:27:31 <Zakim> -zimmer

Zakim IRC Bot: -zimmer

18:27:31 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public

Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public

18:28:32 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

18:28:38 <Zakim> -Ian_Horrocks

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ian_Horrocks

18:28:43 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

18:28:44 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

18:28:46 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli

18:28:56 <Zakim> -sebastian

Zakim IRC Bot: -sebastian

18:29:19 <Zakim> -??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22

18:29:45 <Zakim> -schneid

Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid

18:29:46 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended

18:29:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Ian_Horrocks, [IPcaller], pfps, +1.202.408.aabb, msmith, +1.518.276.aacc, Zhe, baojie, bijan, uli, schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan, sebastian, zimmer, bmotik,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ian_Horrocks, [IPcaller], pfps, +1.202.408.aabb, msmith, +1.518.276.aacc, Zhe, baojie, bijan, uli, schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan, sebastian, zimmer, bmotik,

18:29:51 <Zakim> ... Achille, bcuencagrau, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Achille, bcuencagrau, Sandro

18:41:27 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public

(No events recorded for 11 minutes)

Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public



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This revision (#2) generated 2009-05-01 15:10:22 UTC by 'mschneid', comments: 'ready for review (scribe finishes cleanup)'