16:54:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/25-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/25-owl-irc ←
16:54:29 <zhe> PRESENT: Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli (muted), Rinke (muted), Alan Ruttenberg, bernardo, Michael Schneider, Jonathan Rees, Markus, Mike Smith, Antoine, evan, diego
16:55:13 <pfps> pfps has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.03.25/Agenda
Peter Patel-Schneider: pfps has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.03.25/Agenda ←
16:58:07 <bmotik> Zakim, this will be owl
Boris Motik: Zakim, this will be owl ←
16:58:07 <Zakim> ok, bmotik, I see SW_OWL()1:00PM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, bmotik, I see SW_OWL()1:00PM already started ←
16:58:35 <Zakim> +bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik ←
16:58:40 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
16:58:40 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
16:58:56 <Zakim> +bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a ←
16:59:10 <bmotik> Zakim, bmotik.a is bcuencagrau
Boris Motik: Zakim, bmotik.a is bcuencagrau ←
16:59:10 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←
16:59:12 <bernardo> Zakim bmotik.a is bernardo
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim bmotik.a is bernardo ←
16:59:32 <bmotik> Zakim, bcuencagrau is bernardo
Boris Motik: Zakim, bcuencagrau is bernardo ←
16:59:33 <Zakim> +bernardo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bernardo; got it ←
16:59:36 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.03.25/Agenda
Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.03.25/Agenda ←
16:59:58 <Zakim> +IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH ←
17:00:02 <Zakim> + +0161868aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0161868aaaa ←
17:00:03 <Zakim> +Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe ←
17:00:03 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
17:00:05 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
17:00:05 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
17:00:06 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
17:00:12 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
17:00:17 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public ←
17:00:19 <uli> zakim, ??P10 is me
Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P10 is me ←
17:00:19 <Zakim> +uli; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it ←
17:00:24 <bparsia> zakim, 0161868aaaa is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, 0161868aaaa is me ←
17:00:24 <Zakim> sorry, bparsia, I do not recognize a party named '0161868aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bparsia, I do not recognize a party named '0161868aaaa' ←
17:00:30 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
17:00:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), bernardo, IanH, +0161868aaaa, Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), bernardo, IanH, +0161868aaaa, Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli ←
17:00:33 <bparsia> zakim, + 0161868aaaa is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, + 0161868aaaa is me ←
17:00:33 <Zakim> I don't understand '+ 0161868aaaa is me', bparsia
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '+ 0161868aaaa is me', bparsia ←
17:00:37 <pfps> are we starting now?
Peter Patel-Schneider: are we starting now? ←
17:00:43 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
17:00:43 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
17:00:44 <bparsia> zakim, aaaa is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, aaaa is me ←
17:00:44 <Zakim> +bparsia; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bparsia; got it ←
17:00:49 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
17:00:52 <bparsia> zakim, mut me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mut me ←
17:00:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mut me', bparsia
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'mut me', bparsia ←
17:00:56 <Rinke> zakim, ??P25 is me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, ??P25 is me ←
17:00:56 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it ←
17:00:57 <bparsia> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:00:58 <Zakim> bparsia should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should now be muted ←
17:01:01 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
17:01:01 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
17:01:23 <uli> zakim doesn't seem to tbe very understanding today, doesn't he?
Uli Sattler: zakim doesn't seem to tbe very understanding today, doesn't he? ←
17:01:35 <pfps> time is a-wasting
Peter Patel-Schneider: time is a-wasting ←
17:01:35 <bernardo> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:01:35 <Zakim> sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
17:01:38 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:01:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), bernardo, IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli (muted), Rinke (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), bernardo, IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli (muted), Rinke (muted) ←
17:01:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, Rinke, Zhe, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MarkusK_, Rinke, Zhe, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot ←
17:01:53 <bernardo> Zakim, bcuencagrau is bcunecag2
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, bcuencagrau is bcunecag2 ←
17:01:53 <Zakim> sorry, bernardo, I do not recognize a party named 'bcuencagrau'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bernardo, I do not recognize a party named 'bcuencagrau' ←
17:01:58 <uli> Alan seems to be in the irc
Uli Sattler: Alan seems to be in the irc ←
17:02:04 <alanr> I'm here
Alan Ruttenberg: I'm here ←
17:02:04 <Zakim> -bernardo
Zakim IRC Bot: -bernardo ←
17:02:08 <alanr> Calling in now
Alan Ruttenberg: Calling in now ←
17:02:15 <Zhe> me?
17:02:21 <Zhe> scribenick: Zhe
(Scribe set to Zhe Wu)
17:02:23 <Zhe> yes
yes ←
17:02:27 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:02:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli (muted), Rinke (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli (muted), Rinke (muted) ←
17:02:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, Rinke, Zhe, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MarkusK_, Rinke, Zhe, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot ←
17:02:38 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Rees
Zakim IRC Bot: +Jonathan_Rees ←
17:02:45 <alanr> zakim, Jonathan_Rees is alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, Jonathan_Rees is alanr ←
17:02:45 <Zakim> +bernardo
Zakim IRC Bot: +bernardo ←
17:02:48 <Zhe> Topic: Admin
17:02:51 <Zakim> +alanr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←
17:02:53 <bernardo> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:02:55 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:04 <Zakim> sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
17:03:09 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
17:03:09 <pfps> what is this "five past"?
Peter Patel-Schneider: what is this "five past"? ←
17:03:18 <pfps> q+
17:03:33 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
17:03:40 <Zakim> +msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith ←
17:03:41 <bernardo> Zakim, bmotik.a is bernardo
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, bmotik.a is bernardo ←
17:03:43 <Zakim> sorry, bernardo, I do not recognize a party named 'bmotik.a'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bernardo, I do not recognize a party named 'bmotik.a' ←
17:03:50 <alanr> zakim, who is here
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here ←
17:03:50 <Zakim> alanr, you need to end that query with '?'
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you need to end that query with '?' ←
17:03:55 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
17:03:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan (muted), uli (muted), Rinke (muted), alanr, bernardo, msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan (muted), uli (muted), Rinke (muted), alanr, bernardo, msmith ←
17:03:55 <bernardo> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:04:01 <Zakim> sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
17:04:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see zimmer, msmith, MarkusK_, Rinke, Zhe, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zimmer, msmith, MarkusK_, Rinke, Zhe, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot ←
17:04:21 <bernardo> Zakim bernardo is bernardo
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim bernardo is bernardo ←
17:04:25 <Zhe> PROPOSED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-03-18
PROPOSED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-03-18 ←
17:04:34 <pfps> minutes are minimally acceptable
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes are minimally acceptable ←
17:04:40 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:04:41 <schneid> sorry, possibly only on IRC today
Michael Schneider: sorry, possibly only on IRC today ←
17:04:42 <bernardo> Zakim, bernardo is bernardo
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, bernardo is bernardo ←
17:04:42 <Zakim> +bernardo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bernardo; got it ←
17:04:48 <bernardo> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:04:48 <Zakim> bernardo should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bernardo should now be muted ←
17:04:51 <Zhe> RESOLVED: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-03-18
RESOLVED: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-03-18 ←
17:05:00 <pfps> actually they look much better than when I looked at them last time.
Peter Patel-Schneider: actually they look much better than when I looked at them last time. ←
17:05:06 <Zhe> Topic: Action items status
Topic: Action items status ←
17:05:22 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
17:05:34 <pfps> it appears to me that some of these were approved as done last week
Peter Patel-Schneider: it appears to me that some of these were approved as done last week ←
17:05:37 <Zhe> alanr: any comments?
Alan Ruttenberg: any comments? ←
17:05:37 <zimmer> Zakim, ??P9 is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P9 is me ←
17:05:37 <Zakim> +zimmer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zimmer; got it ←
17:05:41 <msmith> yes, I thought 283 was already closed
Mike Smith: yes, I thought 283 was already closed ←
17:05:43 <ivan> bijan did his review on the quick ref guide
Ivan Herman: bijan did his review on the quick ref guide ←
17:05:47 <Zhe> ... one question to Jie. wasn't clear on 301 status
... one question to Jie. wasn't clear on 301 status ←
17:05:51 <ivan> so did christine
Ivan Herman: so did christine ←
17:06:09 <pfps> no one is updating the status
Peter Patel-Schneider: no one is updating the status ←
17:06:18 <pfps> 301 was approved as done last week
Peter Patel-Schneider: 301 was approved as done last week ←
17:06:31 <sandro> action-301 done
Sandro Hawke: ACTION-301 done ←
17:06:39 <sandro> action-301?
17:06:39 <trackbot> ACTION-301 -- Jie Bao to contact Andy Seaborn and try to make sure he's happy with our work on rdf:text, and will talk to use about any remaining issues. -- due 2009-03-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-301 -- Jie Bao to contact Andy Seaborn and try to make sure he's happy with our work on rdf:text, and will talk to use about any remaining issues. -- due 2009-03-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW ←
17:06:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/301
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/301 ←
17:06:58 <Zhe> Topic: Due and Overdue actions
17:07:22 <Zhe> action 309 done
ACTION-309 done ←
17:07:22 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 309
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 309 ←
17:07:29 <sandro> action-292 closed
Sandro Hawke: ACTION-292 closed ←
17:07:29 <trackbot> ACTION-292 Talk to RIF to see what datatypes in OWL must not be in OWL-RL. closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-292 Talk to RIF to see what datatypes in OWL must not be in OWL-RL. closed ←
17:07:34 <Zhe> action-299?
17:07:34 <trackbot> ACTION-299 -- Sandro Hawke to find and fix the to-wiki-links Jeremy complains about -- due 2009-03-03 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-299 -- Sandro Hawke to find and fix the to-wiki-links Jeremy complains about -- due 2009-03-03 -- OPEN ←
17:07:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/299
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/299 ←
17:07:48 <pfps> last week Sandro said that this would happen at pub time
Peter Patel-Schneider: last week Sandro said that this would happen at pub time ←
17:07:53 <Zhe> action 310?
17:07:53 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, bad ACTION syntax ←
17:07:59 <Zhe> action-310?
17:07:59 <trackbot> ACTION-310 -- Peter Patel-Schneider to review rdf:text document http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/InternationalizedStringSpec -- due 2009-03-25 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-310 -- Peter Patel-Schneider to review rdf:text document http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/InternationalizedStringSpec -- due 2009-03-25 -- OPEN ←
17:07:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/310
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/310 ←
17:08:40 <pfps> action-307?
Peter Patel-Schneider: ACTION-307? ←
17:08:40 <trackbot> ACTION-307 -- Christine Golbreich to review QRG -- due 2009-03-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-307 -- Christine Golbreich to review QRG -- due 2009-03-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW ←
17:08:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/307
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/307 ←
17:08:48 <Zhe> scribenick: Zhe
17:09:03 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
17:09:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan (muted), uli (muted), Rinke (muted), alanr, bernardo (muted), msmith, zimmer
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan (muted), uli (muted), Rinke (muted), alanr, bernardo (muted), msmith, zimmer ←
17:09:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, jar, zimmer, msmith, Rinke, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, jar, zimmer, msmith, Rinke, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot ←
17:09:09 <Zhe> alanr: action-321 postponed
Alan Ruttenberg: ACTION-321 postponed ←
17:09:11 <pfps> the due date should have been later - I'll move it
Peter Patel-Schneider: the due date should have been later - I'll move it ←
17:09:16 <Zhe> Topic: Document and Reviewing
17:09:29 <Zhe> alanr: the only one not ready is rdf text
Alan Ruttenberg: the only one not ready is rdf text ←
17:09:52 <ivan> is the rdf semantics ready for review? I am not sure
Ivan Herman: is the rdf semantics ready for review? I am not sure ←
17:09:59 <Zhe> ... there is one involves our group.
... there is one involves our group. ←
17:10:21 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:10:23 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:10:23 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:10:34 <bparsia> I am!
Bijan Parsia: I am! ←
17:10:36 <pfps> why are we hearing this at TC time?
Peter Patel-Schneider: why are we hearing this at TC time? ←
17:10:38 <Zhe> bmotik: who is arguing against making it infinite
Boris Motik: who is arguing against making it infinite ←
17:10:39 <bparsia> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:10:43 <Zhe> ... RDF or RIF foks?
... RDF or RIF foks? ←
17:10:45 <ivan> ack bmotik
Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←
17:10:48 <ivan> addison
Ivan Herman: addison ←
17:11:02 <Zhe> It is the i18n folks
It is the i18n folks ←
17:11:02 <bparsia> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:11:02 <Zakim> bparsia should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should no longer be muted ←
17:11:03 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:11:07 <alanr> ack bparsia
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bparsia ←
17:11:12 <ivan> ack bparsia
Ivan Herman: ack bparsia ←
17:11:36 <Zhe> bparsia: want to reuse existing regular expression libraries
Bijan Parsia: want to reuse existing regular expression libraries ←
17:11:54 <pfps> I'm confused, why can't regular regexp libraries be used?
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm confused, why can't regular regexp libraries be used? ←
17:11:58 <Zhe> ... allow people to indicate which unicode version
... allow people to indicate which unicode version ←
17:12:07 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:12:30 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
17:12:49 <schneid> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Michael Schneider: zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
17:12:49 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it ←
17:12:54 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:12:54 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
17:13:01 <bparsia> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:13:01 <Zakim> bparsia should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should now be muted ←
17:13:21 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
17:13:27 <Zhe> alanr: goal is that we want to move forward with rdf text... not a tech discussion
Alan Ruttenberg: goal is that we want to move forward with rdf text... not a tech discussion ←
17:13:28 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:13:33 <Zhe> ... how to resolve it asap
... how to resolve it asap ←
17:13:39 <bparsia> Toolkit I want to use: http://www.brics.dk/automaton/
Bijan Parsia: Toolkit I want to use: http://www.brics.dk/automaton/ ←
17:13:40 <Zhe> bmotik: a few tech questions
Boris Motik: a few tech questions ←
17:13:57 <bparsia> I meant in OWL
Bijan Parsia: I meant in OWL ←
17:14:05 <bparsia> rdf:text:unicode3.1
Bijan Parsia: rdf:text:unicode3.1 ←
17:14:10 <Zhe> ... did not understand bijan, what is the semantics if you indicate unicode version
... did not understand bijan, what is the semantics if you indicate unicode version ←
17:14:12 <bparsia> Oh! Nice!
Bijan Parsia: Oh! Nice! ←
17:14:35 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:14:39 <Zhe> ... if we go with finite alphabet,
... if we go with finite alphabet, ←
17:14:46 <bparsia> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:14:48 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
17:14:54 <Zhe> ... do we really know how many is in the unicode version.
... do we really know how many is in the unicode version. ←
17:15:10 <Zhe> ivan: there is an upper limit for unicode characters
Ivan Herman: there is an upper limit for unicode characters ←
17:15:24 <Zhe> ... some of those are not properly defined.
... some of those are not properly defined. ←
17:15:25 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:15:27 <sandro> "The largest Unicode code point is 0x10FFFF. Period. There is not an infinity of Unicode code points. "
Sandro Hawke: "The largest Unicode code point is 0x10FFFF. Period. There is not an infinity of Unicode code points. " ←
17:15:33 <alanr> ack bparsia
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bparsia ←
17:15:40 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
17:15:40 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
17:15:51 <Zhe> bparsia: it is nice to know about the libraries. makes me happy
Bijan Parsia: it is nice to know about the libraries. makes me happy ←
17:15:59 <sandro> -- from Addison Phillips, Chair -- W3C Internationalization WG
Sandro Hawke: -- from Addison Phillips, Chair -- W3C Internationalization WG ←
17:16:16 <Zhe> ... my proposal is that in the ontology, when I define a class, I am using a particular unicode version
... my proposal is that in the ontology, when I define a class, I am using a particular unicode version ←
17:16:23 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:16:27 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:16:34 <Zhe> ... however, if it is finite, then all problems are solved
... however, if it is finite, then all problems are solved ←
17:17:12 <bparsia> We need to know the number
Bijan Parsia: We need to know the number ←
17:17:15 <IanH> An ecstatic Boris -- scary prospect
Ian Horrocks: An ecstatic Boris -- scary prospect ←
17:17:16 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:17:28 <Zhe> alanr: bmotik communicate with Jie to get the issue resolved
Alan Ruttenberg: bmotik communicate with Jie to get the issue resolved ←
17:17:33 <bparsia> Pointer to that rdf:text emial?
Bijan Parsia: Pointer to that rdf:text emial? ←
17:17:49 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:17:49 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
17:17:53 <Zhe> alanr: RDF semantics
Alan Ruttenberg: RDF semantics ←
17:18:09 <Zhe> schneid: 3 or 4 more days
Michael Schneider: 3 or 4 more days ←
17:18:20 <Zhe> ... should be done by end of this week
... should be done by end of this week ←
17:18:31 <Zhe> ... (weekend)
... (weekend) ←
17:18:44 <Zhe> alanr: will you notify your reviewers
Alan Ruttenberg: will you notify your reviewers ←
17:18:55 <Zhe> schneid: will send out email once it is done
Michael Schneider: will send out email once it is done ←
17:19:00 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:19:03 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:19:03 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
17:19:18 <Zhe> Topic: Changes since last call
17:19:24 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reviewing#Documents_and_Reviewers
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reviewing#Documents_and_Reviewers ←
17:19:46 <Zhe> sandro: does not show correct deadline
Sandro Hawke: does not show correct deadline ←
17:19:54 <bparsia> n-ary is not ready right now
Bijan Parsia: n-ary is not ready right now ←
17:19:57 <Zhe> ... about n-ary
... about n-ary ←
17:20:02 <bparsia> Probablynext week
Bijan Parsia: Probablynext week ←
17:20:07 <Zhe> alanr: can we talk about n-ary
Alan Ruttenberg: can we talk about n-ary ←
17:20:10 <bparsia> I couldn't last week
Bijan Parsia: I couldn't last week ←
17:20:17 <bparsia> But I can do it for next week
Bijan Parsia: But I can do it for next week ←
17:20:20 <Zhe> ... bjian mentioned that we can put in a small example
... bjian mentioned that we can put in a small example ←
17:20:32 <Zhe> ... when is it going to be ready?
... when is it going to be ready? ←
17:20:37 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:20:38 <Zhe> ... next meeting or weekend?
... next meeting or weekend? ←
17:20:38 <bparsia> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:20:38 <Zakim> bparsia was not muted, bparsia
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia was not muted, bparsia ←
17:20:55 <Zhe> bparsia: not sure.
Bijan Parsia: not sure. ←
17:21:09 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:21:18 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
17:21:18 <bparsia> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:21:19 <Zhe> alanr: I will update that page with right due dates
Alan Ruttenberg: I will update that page with right due dates ←
17:21:20 <Zakim> bparsia should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should now be muted ←
17:21:53 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:21:53 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:22:05 <Zhe> sandro: it will be published Friday.
Sandro Hawke: it will be published Friday. ←
17:22:31 <Zhe> ivan: this means we do have something that we want to change on that document
Ivan Herman: this means we do have something that we want to change on that document ←
17:22:37 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:22:48 <Zhe> ... until that is done, the document is not ready for reviewing
... until that is done, the document is not ready for reviewing ←
17:23:08 <IanH> Anticipated changes vis a vis naming should be very small
Ian Horrocks: Anticipated changes vis a vis naming should be very small ←
17:23:31 <Zhe> ivan: the bottom line is that that document is not ready for reviewing
Ivan Herman: the bottom line is that that document is not ready for reviewing ←
17:23:51 <Zhe> alanr: hopefully it is a small change
Alan Ruttenberg: hopefully it is a small change ←
17:24:01 <Zhe> ... any more for document set?
... any more for document set? ←
17:24:12 <Zhe> Topic: Last Call Comments
17:24:41 <Zhe> alanr: AR1 is delegated to Jonathan
Alan Ruttenberg: AR1 is delegated to Jonathan ←
17:25:03 <bparsia> BTW: http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.0.0/ch01.pdf
Bijan Parsia: BTW: http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.0.0/ch01.pdf ←
17:25:05 <bparsia> page 2
Bijan Parsia: page 2 ←
17:25:15 <pfps> Isn't this the sort of thing that should be done by email?
Peter Patel-Schneider: Isn't this the sort of thing that should be done by email? ←
17:25:19 <bparsia> "The Unicode Standard contains 1,114,112 code points,"
Bijan Parsia: "The Unicode Standard contains 1,114,112 code points," ←
17:25:36 <IanH> I'm doing it now
Ian Horrocks: I'm doing it now ←
17:25:39 <uli> q+
Uli Sattler: q+ ←
17:25:44 <alanr> ack uli
Alan Ruttenberg: ack uli ←
17:26:06 <Zhe> uli: a few changes have been made
Uli Sattler: a few changes have been made ←
17:26:11 <IanH> I looked -- looks fine to me
Ian Horrocks: I looked -- looks fine to me ←
17:26:15 <Zhe> ... I can post the diff I have made
... I can post the diff I have made ←
17:26:24 <Zhe> alanr: these are ready to go
Alan Ruttenberg: these are ready to go ←
17:26:26 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
17:26:26 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
17:26:52 <Zhe> alanr: one more related to this. Ivan suggested that we add some text to the intro in profiles document
Alan Ruttenberg: one more related to this. Ivan suggested that we add some text to the intro in profiles document ←
17:27:09 <Zhe> ivan: it is all in the email
Ivan Herman: it is all in the email ←
17:27:10 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/mid/49C350F4.6000200@w3.org
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/mid/49C350F4.6000200@w3.org ←
17:27:25 <Zhe> ... the intro to QL is very tech oritented...
... the intro to QL is very tech oritented... ←
17:27:52 <Zhe> ... need to have more understandable rationale in profiles
... need to have more understandable rationale in profiles ←
17:27:55 <pfps> Document editor discretion seems to cover this point.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Document editor discretion seems to cover this point. ←
17:27:57 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:27:59 <Zhe> alanr: any objection?
Alan Ruttenberg: any objection? ←
17:28:05 <uli> i think i added a bit
Uli Sattler: i think i added a bit ←
17:28:20 <Zhe> alanr: Ivan can communicate with editors to get it done
Alan Ruttenberg: Ivan can communicate with editors to get it done ←
17:28:42 <pfps> -> Ian
Peter Patel-Schneider: -> Ian ←
17:28:43 <Zhe> ... can one editor stand up
... can one editor stand up ←
17:28:58 <IanH> I'm
Ian Horrocks: I'm ←
17:28:59 <Zhe> ... zhe, can you do it?
... zhe, can you do it? ←
17:29:01 <Zhe> ok
ok ←
17:29:06 <IanH> I'm willing to help
Ian Horrocks: I'm willing to help ←
17:29:06 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:29:17 <Zhe> thanks Ian
thanks Ian ←
17:29:25 <bparsia> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:29:26 <Zhe> alanr: comment on XML syntax,
Alan Ruttenberg: comment on XML syntax, ←
17:29:31 <Zhe> ... looks ready to me
... looks ready to me ←
17:29:37 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
17:29:53 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:29:54 <Zhe> alanr: one on rdf semantics, one on OWL DL the language.
Alan Ruttenberg: one on rdf semantics, one on OWL DL the language. ←
17:29:54 <schneid> q-
Michael Schneider: q- ←
17:29:57 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:30:11 <schneid> JR6a should be checked by people
Michael Schneider: JR6a should be checked by people ←
17:30:15 <Zhe> ivan: on the rdf semantics, michael did more than required
Ivan Herman: on the rdf semantics, michael did more than required ←
17:30:29 <Zhe> ... it is not even last call
... it is not even last call ←
17:30:34 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:30:39 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
17:30:41 <pfps> the response is fine - ship it
Peter Patel-Schneider: the response is fine - ship it ←
17:30:48 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:30:53 <Zhe> ivan: I think Michael's reponse is great and ready to go
Ivan Herman: I think Michael's reponse is great and ready to go ←
17:30:55 <schneid> ah, I understand! ok
Michael Schneider: ah, I understand! ok ←
17:31:09 <Zhe> alanr: not hearing object to sending out these two responses
Alan Ruttenberg: not hearing object to sending out these two responses ←
17:31:18 <Zhe> ... JR6a, 6b can be sent as is
... JR6a, 6b can be sent as is ←
17:31:33 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:31:40 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
17:31:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli (muted), Rinke (muted), alanr, bernardo (muted), msmith, zimmer, schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik (muted), IanH, bparsia (muted), Sandro, Zhe, Ivan, uli (muted), Rinke (muted), alanr, bernardo (muted), msmith, zimmer, schneid ←
17:31:40 <Zhe> Jonathan: regarding AR1
Jonathan Rees: regarding AR1 ←
17:31:43 <Zakim> ... (muted), MarkusK_
Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), MarkusK_ ←
17:31:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, Zhe, jar, zimmer, msmith, Rinke, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MarkusK_, Zhe, jar, zimmer, msmith, Rinke, uli, bernardo, bmotik, schneid, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, alanr, bparsia, ivan, IanH, sandro, trackbot ←
17:31:51 <Zhe> ... looks like there are some extension point
... looks like there are some extension point ←
17:31:54 <ivan> zakim, alanr has jonathan
Ivan Herman: zakim, alanr has jonathan ←
17:31:54 <Zakim> +jonathan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jonathan; got it ←
17:32:04 <Zhe> ... to define new data types in new namespaces as long as they are
... to define new data types in new namespaces as long as they are ←
17:32:14 <bparsia> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:32:16 <pfps> q+
17:32:17 <Zhe> ... compatible with other SPECs
... compatible with other SPECs ←
17:32:18 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
17:32:31 <bmotik> (Aside: Bijan and I managed to convince ourselves that Unicode indeed has 1,114,112 code points)
Boris Motik: (Aside: Bijan and I managed to convince ourselves that Unicode indeed has 1,114,112 code points) ←
17:32:49 <sandro> :-) bmotik
Sandro Hawke: :-) bmotik ←
17:32:51 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
17:32:53 <Zhe> ... question is if there are some risk, you will get incompatibility
... question is if there are some risk, you will get incompatibility ←
17:32:54 <bmotik> (Aside: For all I care, we can have a vote right now to change the value sopace of rdf:text)
Boris Motik: (Aside: For all I care, we can have a vote right now to change the value sopace of rdf:text) ←
17:32:58 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
17:33:07 <Zhe> ... XML try to address it through namespaces.
... XML try to address it through namespaces. ←
17:33:31 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:33:34 <bparsia> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:33:34 <Zakim> bparsia should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should no longer be muted ←
17:33:35 <Zhe> ... here it seems that we are reusing an existing namespace
... here it seems that we are reusing an existing namespace ←
17:33:56 <Zhe> bparsia: we should not worry about the "risk"
Bijan Parsia: we should not worry about the "risk" ←
17:33:58 <schneid> I will nevertheless wait another 24 hours with sending 52a, so people can check
Michael Schneider: I will nevertheless wait another 24 hours with sending 52a, so people can check ←
17:34:17 <Zhe> ... dont' think there is a real risk that people stepping into OWL namespace
... dont' think there is a real risk that people stepping into OWL namespace ←
17:34:24 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:34:27 <alanr> ack bparsia
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bparsia ←
17:34:48 <Zhe> ... given that the community has matured, there should not be a problem
... given that the community has matured, there should not be a problem ←
17:35:13 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:35:17 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
17:35:21 <bparsia> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:35:21 <Zakim> bparsia should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should now be muted ←
17:35:23 <uli> Ivan, to make "a mountain out of a mole hole"?
Uli Sattler: Ivan, to make "a mountain out of a mole hole"? ←
17:35:26 <Zhe> pfps: I agree with bijan on this.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I agree with bijan on this. ←
17:35:27 <alanr> ack sandro
Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro ←
17:35:32 <Zhe> sandro: I see two questions
Sandro Hawke: I see two questions ←
17:35:35 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:35:46 <Zhe> ... 1) on the issue that bijan addressed.
... 1) on the issue that bijan addressed. ←
17:36:07 <Zhe> ... I think extensibility point is properly architected
... I think extensibility point is properly architected ←
17:36:19 <Zhe> ... 2) interop problem
... 2) interop problem ←
17:36:27 <Zhe> ... 10 well defined datatypes
... 10 well defined datatypes ←
17:36:35 <Zhe> ... 5 are required by OWL
... 5 are required by OWL ←
17:37:04 <Zhe> ... I suspect users will find their tool support mroe datatypes
... I suspect users will find their tool support mroe datatypes ←
17:37:11 <Zhe> s/mroe/more
s/mroe/more ←
17:37:16 <bparsia> ?
Bijan Parsia: ? ←
17:37:22 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:37:22 <Zhe> ... which creates interop problem
... which creates interop problem ←
17:37:30 <bparsia> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:37:39 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:37:39 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:37:42 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:37:45 <pfps> q+
17:37:46 <Zhe> ... Tools use extension should get user attention/ok
... Tools use extension should get user attention/ok ←
17:37:58 <Zhe> bmotik: a bit lost. is this about xml schema datatypes
Boris Motik: a bit lost. is this about xml schema datatypes ←
17:38:26 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:38:27 <pfps> q-
17:38:37 <Zhe> ... you cannot define new datatypes in XML schema namespace anyway
... you cannot define new datatypes in XML schema namespace anyway ←
17:38:40 <alanr> ack bparsia
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bparsia ←
17:38:42 <Zhe> ... don't see any issue
... don't see any issue ←
17:38:47 <jar> q?
Jonathan Rees: q? ←
17:38:52 <Zhe> bparsia: agree with boris
Bijan Parsia: agree with boris ←
17:38:58 <Zhe> ... it is clearly SPECed
... it is clearly SPECed ←
17:39:46 <Zhe> ... don't feel the need as a tool vendor that we need user permission to extend.
... don't feel the need as a tool vendor that we need user permission to extend. ←
17:39:49 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:39:55 <Zhe> ... haven't seen troubles in the past
... haven't seen troubles in the past ←
17:40:52 <Zhe> sandro: you don't think WG should give this advice
Sandro Hawke: you don't think WG should give this advice ←
17:41:11 <Zhe> bparsia: not sure it is a good advice
Bijan Parsia: not sure it is a good advice ←
17:41:43 <pfps> +1`
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1` ←
17:41:48 <Zhe> ... tool vendors should decide by themselves
... tool vendors should decide by themselves ←
17:42:08 <Zhe> sandro: I am persuaded by bijan
Sandro Hawke: I am persuaded by bijan ←
17:42:15 <pfps> In many cases there may be *no* user to warn.
Peter Patel-Schneider: In many cases there may be *no* user to warn. ←
17:42:27 <Zhe> ... the worst case is that extension is used unexpectedly
... the worst case is that extension is used unexpectedly ←
17:42:45 <bparsia> q=
Bijan Parsia: q= ←
17:42:48 <bparsia> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:42:49 <Zhe> Jonathan: it affects ontology consistency
Jonathan Rees: it affects ontology consistency ←
17:42:57 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:43:13 <Zhe> sandro: tool can tell you that this part is not OWL, it is extension
Sandro Hawke: tool can tell you that this part is not OWL, it is extension ←
17:43:36 <Zhe> ... it is not our job to tell tools to pop up warnings
... it is not our job to tell tools to pop up warnings ←
17:43:42 <jar> q?
Jonathan Rees: q? ←
17:44:11 <Zhe> bparsia: Pellet has a mode that approximates things that it cannot handle
Bijan Parsia: Pellet has a mode that approximates things that it cannot handle ←
17:44:25 <jar> q+ jar
Jonathan Rees: q+ jar ←
17:44:41 <alanr> ack bparsia
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bparsia ←
17:44:49 <Zhe> ... we define what is mandatory, and what will happen given an OWL ontology
... we define what is mandatory, and what will happen given an OWL ontology ←
17:44:53 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:45:02 <Zhe> ... for things beyond, it is not our job to define behavior
... for things beyond, it is not our job to define behavior ←
17:45:14 <pfps> q+
17:45:30 <Zhe> bmotik: in non-default mode, HermiT can approximate and does it best
Boris Motik: in non-default mode, HermiT can approximate and does it best ←
17:45:31 <alanr> ack jar
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jar ←
17:45:32 <bparsia> And, if the spec told me not to do that? I would ignore that spec
Bijan Parsia: And, if the spec told me not to do that? I would ignore that spec ←
17:45:32 <sandro> sandro: I'm okay with the situation where a consumer system simply detects the situation where an extension is used and either gives a clear error message or (as per Bijan) offers to try some approximations. The right social/market forces are in play to avoid fragmenting the market, I think.
Sandro Hawke: I'm okay with the situation where a consumer system simply detects the situation where an extension is used and either gives a clear error message or (as per Bijan) offers to try some approximations. The right social/market forces are in play to avoid fragmenting the market, I think. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:45:47 <Zhe> Jonathan: looking at conformance doc
Jonathan Rees: looking at conformance doc ←
17:45:58 <pfps> The question at hand is how to answer AR66, which states: I believe that it is our intention that implementation specific datatype maps don't define behavior for, e.g. future datatypes added to XML Schema (or datatypes we have rejected). AFAIK, there is no proscription against this and I would like to have there be.
Peter Patel-Schneider: The question at hand is how to answer AR66, which states: I believe that it is our intention that implementation specific datatype maps don't define behavior for, e.g. future datatypes added to XML Schema (or datatypes we have rejected). AFAIK, there is no proscription against this and I would like to have there be. ←
17:46:03 <Zhe> pfps: I don't see how the current discussion is relevant to the Agenda
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't see how the current discussion is relevant to the Agenda ←
17:46:04 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:46:04 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:46:11 <bparsia> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:46:11 <Zakim> bparsia should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should now be muted ←
17:46:47 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Conformance_and_Test_Cases#Datatype_Map_Conformance
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Conformance_and_Test_Cases#Datatype_Map_Conformance ←
17:47:05 <Zhe> sandro: I pointed out that was in error,
Sandro Hawke: I pointed out that was in error, ←
17:47:33 <Zhe> alanr: Jonathan do you have more comments?
Alan Ruttenberg: Jonathan do you have more comments? ←
17:47:54 <sandro> FWIW I think it was real error to every accept "comments" from WG members... :-/ They should be issues instead.
Sandro Hawke: FWIW I think it was real error to every accept "comments" from WG members... :-/ They should be issues instead. ←
17:48:03 <Zhe> GRDDL TM1 17 GRDDL
GRDDL TM1 17 GRDDL ←
17:48:07 <bparsia> ship it
Bijan Parsia: ship it ←
17:48:11 <ivan> ship it
Ivan Herman: ship it ←
17:48:14 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:48:14 <Zhe> alanr: everyone comfortable?
Alan Ruttenberg: everyone comfortable? ←
17:48:22 <pfps> +1
17:48:46 <Zhe> alanr: RM1
Alan Ruttenberg: RM1 ←
17:48:52 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:48:52 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
17:48:54 <Zhe> ... michael, have you sent the response out?
... michael, have you sent the response out? ←
17:49:15 <Zhe> schneid: the second was drafted by peter, I am out of it
Michael Schneider: the second was drafted by peter, I am out of it ←
17:49:20 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:49:20 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
17:49:29 <pfps> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Responses_to_Last_Call_Comments clearly indicates that a 2nd response has been sent
Peter Patel-Schneider: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Responses_to_Last_Call_Comments clearly indicates that a 2nd response has been sent ←
17:49:48 <Zhe> Topic: Technical Issues
17:50:07 <Zhe> alanr: xsd:dateTimeStamp, shall we follow XML schema
Alan Ruttenberg: xsd:dateTimeStamp, shall we follow XML schema ←
17:50:20 <bparsia> ?
Bijan Parsia: ? ←
17:50:26 <bmotik> Zaakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zaakim, unmute me ←
17:50:30 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:50:30 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:50:30 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:50:41 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:50:50 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
17:50:57 <bparsia> +1 to my other self
Bijan Parsia: +1 to my other self ←
17:51:02 <ivan> +1 to boris
Ivan Herman: +1 to boris ←
17:51:06 <Zhe> bmotik: the issue is that the current SPEC use a prioteray handling of dataTime,
Boris Motik: the issue is that the current SPEC use a prioteray handling of dataTime, ←
17:51:12 <Zhe> ... we should align with XML schema
... we should align with XML schema ←
17:51:13 <alanr> q+ to ask why timezone but not the other elements of the 7 tuple
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask why timezone but not the other elements of the 7 tuple ←
17:51:28 <Zhe> ... change is not that big. the only thing is that timezone is disjoint
... change is not that big. the only thing is that timezone is disjoint ←
17:51:30 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
17:51:39 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:51:39 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:51:43 <Zhe> ... don't think users will get lots of problems
... don't think users will get lots of problems ←
17:51:51 <ivan> ack alanr
Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←
17:51:51 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask why timezone but not the other elements of the 7 tuple
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask why timezone but not the other elements of the 7 tuple ←
17:52:00 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:52:00 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:52:02 <Zhe> alanr: I have a question, XML schema has 7 tuple,
Alan Ruttenberg: I have a question, XML schema has 7 tuple, ←
17:52:06 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:52:07 <Zhe> ... how is that aligned
... how is that aligned ←
17:52:32 <Zhe> bmotik: the 7 tuple can map to a particular time
Boris Motik: the 7 tuple can map to a particular time ←
17:52:38 <alanr> q+ to clarify that this means we can't have functional properties with dateTimeStamps as values?
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to clarify that this means we can't have functional properties with dateTimeStamps as values? ←
17:52:43 <sandro> boris: you can map 7-tuple to time-on-timeline, with different time line for each time zone.
Boris Motik: you can map 7-tuple to time-on-timeline, with different time line for each time zone. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:52:45 <Zhe> ... you cannot tell the difference
... you cannot tell the difference ←
17:52:52 <ivan> ack sandro
Ivan Herman: ack sandro ←
17:53:00 <Zhe> sandro: this is sounding like a bug in XML schema
Sandro Hawke: this is sounding like a bug in XML schema ←
17:53:04 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:53:08 <pfps> q+
17:53:18 <bparsia> I recommend avoiding timezones in ontologies ;)
Bijan Parsia: I recommend avoiding timezones in ontologies ;) ←
17:53:22 <bparsia> Preprocess!
Bijan Parsia: Preprocess! ←
17:53:24 <Zhe> ... the point is to reason different times in different zones
... the point is to reason different times in different zones ←
17:53:28 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:53:36 <pfps> the are equal, just not identical
Peter Patel-Schneider: the are equal, just not identical ←
17:53:37 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
17:53:37 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to clarify that this means we can't have functional properties with dateTimeStamps as values?
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to clarify that this means we can't have functional properties with dateTimeStamps as values? ←
17:53:40 <Zhe> ... not what I want as a user
... not what I want as a user ←
17:53:54 <pfps> nope
Peter Patel-Schneider: nope ←
17:54:04 <ivan> ack bmotik
Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←
17:54:08 <Zhe> alanr: so the consequence is that we cannot have a functional property with a dateTime as its range?
Alan Ruttenberg: so the consequence is that we cannot have a functional property with a dateTime as its range? ←
17:54:35 <Zhe> bmotik: if you have a FP p, two values pointing to the same time point in two zones,
Boris Motik: if you have a FP p, two values pointing to the same time point in two zones, ←
17:54:39 <bparsia> Discussion of identity vs. equality I just wrote: <http://www.w3.org/mid/0E611C17-39DC-4509-8002-3E684C345C45@cs.manchester.ac.uk>
Bijan Parsia: Discussion of identity vs. equality I just wrote: <http://www.w3.org/mid/0E611C17-39DC-4509-8002-3E684C345C45@cs.manchester.ac.uk> ←
17:54:43 <Zhe> ... they violate the constraint
... they violate the constraint ←
17:55:13 <pfps> q-
17:55:24 <Zhe> ... XML schema wants to keep this time zone information in the value space
... XML schema wants to keep this time zone information in the value space ←
17:55:33 <bparsia> q+ to propose at riskiness
Bijan Parsia: q+ to propose at riskiness ←
17:55:43 <alanr> q+ to ask one last question - why con consider this extralogical and answer queries against syntax
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask one last question - why con consider this extralogical and answer queries against syntax ←
17:55:52 <Zhe> ... because they have functions to compare, it is not a bug in my opinion
... because they have functions to compare, it is not a bug in my opinion ←
17:55:55 <alanr> ack bparsia
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bparsia ←
17:55:56 <Zakim> bparsia, you wanted to propose at riskiness
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia, you wanted to propose at riskiness ←
17:56:02 <Zhe> sandro: I agree now it is not a bug
Sandro Hawke: I agree now it is not a bug ←
17:56:10 <sandro> (in xml schema)
Sandro Hawke: (in xml schema) ←
17:56:16 <Zhe> bparsia: two principles, 1) to align with XML schema
Bijan Parsia: two principles, 1) to align with XML schema ←
17:56:17 <sandro> sandro: but it's a pain for users.
Sandro Hawke: but it's a pain for users. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:57:24 <ivan> +1 to bijan, make the choices clear and put it into the document as a feedback request from the community
Ivan Herman: +1 to bijan, make the choices clear and put it into the document as a feedback request from the community ←
17:57:28 <IanH> Seems similar to the numerics: could imagine arguments on both sides but being consistent with XML schema sounds like the winning argument.
Ian Horrocks: Seems similar to the numerics: could imagine arguments on both sides but being consistent with XML schema sounds like the winning argument. ←
17:57:31 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
17:57:31 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask one last question - why con consider this extralogical and answer queries against syntax
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask one last question - why con consider this extralogical and answer queries against syntax ←
17:57:31 <msmith> +1 to bparsia
Mike Smith: +1 to bparsia ←
17:57:35 <IanH> And +1 to Bijan
Ian Horrocks: And +1 to Bijan ←
17:57:36 <Zhe> ... it is always possible to normalize all timestamp values with respect to timezones
... it is always possible to normalize all timestamp values with respect to timezones ←
17:57:40 <bparsia> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:57:40 <Zakim> bparsia should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should now be muted ←
17:58:04 <Zhe> alanr: boris, why do we need to put it in the valuespace?
Alan Ruttenberg: boris, why do we need to put it in the valuespace? ←
17:58:39 <Zhe> bmotik: for the case RIF wants to implement some functions (give back timezones)
Boris Motik: for the case RIF wants to implement some functions (give back timezones) ←
17:59:03 <bparsia> One can do that as a preprocessing phase..if you wanted that
Bijan Parsia: One can do that as a preprocessing phase..if you wanted that ←
17:59:09 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:59:17 <Zhe> ... anyone use XQuery with OWL will find it difficult
... anyone use XQuery with OWL will find it difficult ←
17:59:37 <bparsia> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:59:37 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:59:45 <bparsia> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:59:45 <Zakim> bparsia should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should no longer be muted ←
17:59:46 <Zhe> sandro: RIF is struggling with this and will have identity operator and equality operator
Sandro Hawke: RIF is struggling with this and will have identity operator and equality operator ←
17:59:47 <alanr> ack bparsia
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bparsia ←
17:59:53 <ivan> ack bparsia
Ivan Herman: ack bparsia ←
18:00:02 <sandro> s/will/will probably/
Sandro Hawke: s/will/will probably/ ←
18:00:13 <alanr> q+ to ask why we couldn't use equality across OWL
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask why we couldn't use equality across OWL ←
18:00:16 <Zhe> bparsia: unlike RIF, we don't have luxury to have two operators because counting defines on top of identity
Bijan Parsia: unlike RIF, we don't have luxury to have two operators because counting defines on top of identity ←
18:00:24 <sandro> bparsia: OWL doesn't have the luxury of two operators, since counting works with identity.
Bijan Parsia: OWL doesn't have the luxury of two operators, since counting works with identity. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:00:34 <Zhe> ... am scared to use equality
... am scared to use equality ←
18:00:45 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:00:58 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:00:59 <ivan> ack bmotik
Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←
18:01:00 <bparsia> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:01:01 <Zakim> bparsia should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should now be muted ←
18:01:16 <Zhe> bmotik: don't think this is crucial for users
Boris Motik: don't think this is crucial for users ←
18:01:27 <bparsia> I agree with boris to some extent
Bijan Parsia: I agree with boris to some extent ←
18:01:38 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:01:39 <bparsia> It's work aroundable
Bijan Parsia: It's work aroundable ←
18:01:52 <jar> q+ jar to wonder about calendar merging
Jonathan Rees: q+ jar to wonder about calendar merging ←
18:02:03 <Zhe> ... it is not that often that two (same) values use different zones
... it is not that often that two (same) values use different zones ←
18:02:09 <sandro> boris: Come on -- how many users will actually want to use a use functional properties to say there is one time, and then provide the time in multiple time zones?
Boris Motik: Come on -- how many users will actually want to use a use functional properties to say there is one time, and then provide the time in multiple time zones? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:02:12 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:02:20 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
18:02:20 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask why we couldn't use equality across OWL
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask why we couldn't use equality across OWL ←
18:02:38 <IanH> Let's vote now!
Ian Horrocks: Let's vote now! ←
18:02:39 <bparsia> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:02:39 <Zakim> bparsia should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should no longer be muted ←
18:02:41 <sandro> sandro: I think it'll a real problem, boris, but I think it's a very small issue and I'd like to move on?
Sandro Hawke: I think it'll a real problem, boris, but I think it's a very small issue and I'd like to move on? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:03:38 <Zhe> bparsia: we cannot put this under user control with respect to counting
Bijan Parsia: we cannot put this under user control with respect to counting ←
18:03:51 <jar> q- jar
Jonathan Rees: q- jar ←
18:04:02 <Zhe> alanr: why cannot we use equality in OWL as the single choice
Alan Ruttenberg: why cannot we use equality in OWL as the single choice ←
18:04:45 <Zhe> bparsia: we discussed and decided to go with XML schema identity
Bijan Parsia: we discussed and decided to go with XML schema identity ←
18:05:07 <sandro> bparsia: This all comes back to us having to chose between XS Identity and XS Equality as our Identity, and the compelling evidence is on the side of XS Identity.
Bijan Parsia: This all comes back to us having to chose between XS Identity and XS Equality as our Identity, and the compelling evidence is on the side of XS Identity. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:05:31 <Zhe> ... tools can normalize xsd:dateTimeStamp values in different zones
... tools can normalize xsd:dateTimeStamp values in different zones ←
18:05:32 <alanr> PROPOSED: OWL will use the standard XML Schema definition of xsd:dateTimeStamp (i.e., time zones are carried into the semantics of OWL). We will mark this "at risk" and solicit feedback on the choice.
PROPOSED: OWL will use the standard XML Schema definition of xsd:dateTimeStamp (i.e., time zones are carried into the semantics of OWL). We will mark this "at risk" and solicit feedback on the choice. ←
18:05:35 <sandro> bparsia: Tools can route around this, by comparing them as identiical if they need to -- let's be conservative and consistent.
Bijan Parsia: Tools can route around this, by comparing them as identiical if they need to -- let's be conservative and consistent. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:05:48 <bparsia> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:05:48 <Zakim> bparsia should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should now be muted ←
18:06:17 <Zhe> bmotik: dateTime should be the same
Boris Motik: dateTime should be the same ←
18:06:37 <pfps> we need to resolve the "at risk" later
Peter Patel-Schneider: we need to resolve the "at risk" later ←
18:06:37 <bparsia> I don't care
Bijan Parsia: I don't care ←
18:06:38 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:06:38 <IanH> Minimising "at risk" has to be good.
Ian Horrocks: Minimising "at risk" has to be good. ←
18:06:40 <bparsia> I'm fine not
Bijan Parsia: I'm fine not ←
18:06:48 <pfps> 0
18:06:51 <ivan> 0
Ivan Herman: 0 ←
18:06:54 <Rinke> 0
Rinke Hoekstra: 0 ←
18:06:55 <bparsia> Are we voting?
Bijan Parsia: Are we voting? ←
18:06:55 <bmotik> I'd prefer just being done with this.
Boris Motik: I'd prefer just being done with this. ←
18:06:56 <Zhe> 0
0 ←
18:07:02 <bmotik> I.e., no at risk.
Boris Motik: I.e., no at risk. ←
18:07:04 <bparsia> -1
Bijan Parsia: -1 ←
18:07:07 <uli> no at risk
Uli Sattler: no at risk ←
18:07:08 <bernardo> 0
18:07:10 <MarkusK_> 0
Markus Krötzsch: 0 ←
18:07:11 <schneid> 0
18:07:20 <alanr> PROPOSED: OWL will use the standard XML Schema definition of xsd:dateTimeStamp (i.e., time zones are carried into the semantics of OWL).
PROPOSED: OWL will use the standard XML Schema definition of xsd:dateTimeStamp (i.e., time zones are carried into the semantics of OWL). ←
18:07:23 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:07:24 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:07:24 <pfps> +1 ALU
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU ←
18:07:25 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:07:25 <bparsia> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
18:07:27 <alanr> 0
Alan Ruttenberg: 0 ←
18:07:31 <Zhe> +1
+1 ←
18:07:32 <msmith> +1
Mike Smith: +1 ←
18:07:39 <MarkusK_> 0
Markus Krötzsch: 0 ←
18:07:42 <bernardo> +1
18:07:45 <schneid> 0 (no opinion)
Michael Schneider: 0 (no opinion) ←
18:07:49 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
18:08:03 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:08:06 <alanr> RESOLVED: OWL will use the standard XML Schema definition of xsd:dateTimeStamp (i.e., time zones are carried into the semantics of OWL).
RESOLVED: OWL will use the standard XML Schema definition of xsd:dateTimeStamp (i.e., time zones are carried into the semantics of OWL). ←
18:08:22 <Zhe> alanr: boris, we can discuss dateTime next week
Alan Ruttenberg: boris, we can discuss dateTime next week ←
18:08:27 <Zhe> alanr: CURIEs
Alan Ruttenberg: CURIEs ←
18:08:40 <bparsia> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:08:40 <Zakim> bparsia should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bparsia should no longer be muted ←
18:09:00 <schneid> q+ on question about relevance for RDF-Based Semantics
Michael Schneider: q+ on question about relevance for RDF-Based Semantics ←
18:09:01 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
18:09:09 <alanr> ack schneid
Alan Ruttenberg: ack schneid ←
18:09:10 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:09:11 <Zakim> schneid, you wanted to comment on question about relevance for RDF-Based Semantics
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid, you wanted to comment on question about relevance for RDF-Based Semantics ←
18:09:13 <Zakim> schneid was not muted, schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid was not muted, schneid ←
18:09:30 <ivan> none
Ivan Herman: none ←
18:09:30 <bparsia> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:09:38 <Zhe> schneid: point from me is that what is the relevance to us
Michael Schneider: point from me is that what is the relevance to us ←
18:09:48 <pfps> RDF-semantics should not be affected
Peter Patel-Schneider: RDF-semantics should not be affected ←
18:09:49 <Zhe> ... CURIE is used only for representation purpose
... CURIE is used only for representation purpose ←
18:10:02 <alanr> ack bparsia
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bparsia ←
18:10:04 <ivan> schneid: do not worry! Nothing
Michael Schneider: do not worry! Nothing [ Scribe Assist by Ivan Herman ] ←
18:10:09 <Zhe> ... wonder what is the implication
... wonder what is the implication ←
18:10:23 <alanr> ack sandro
Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro ←
18:10:24 <Zhe> bparsia: we just change the references of CURIE.
Bijan Parsia: we just change the references of CURIE. ←
18:10:27 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:10:48 <Zhe> sandro: this change does not affect RDF/XML
Sandro Hawke: this change does not affect RDF/XML ←
18:10:49 <ivan> exactly
Ivan Herman: exactly ←
18:10:52 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:10:53 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:10:53 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:11:00 <bmotik> +q
Boris Motik: +q ←
18:11:10 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:11:48 <ivan> +1 to Boris
Ivan Herman: +1 to Boris ←
18:11:54 <alanr> are we allowing abbreviations without namespace
Alan Ruttenberg: are we allowing abbreviations without namespace ←
18:11:55 <bparsia> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
18:11:57 <schneid> schneid: RDF-Based Semantics refers to CURIE spec, but only uses CURIEs for presentational reasons, to have the particular IRIs in the document being presented in an abbreviated form
Michael Schneider: RDF-Based Semantics refers to CURIE spec, but only uses CURIEs for presentational reasons, to have the particular IRIs in the document being presented in an abbreviated form [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
18:11:58 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:12:34 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
18:12:37 <Zakim> + +1.301.351.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.301.351.aabb ←
18:12:37 <Zhe> alanr: are we allowing no colon
Alan Ruttenberg: are we allowing no colon ←
18:12:40 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:12:54 <alanr> ack sandro
Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro ←
18:12:56 <Zhe> bparsia: we can choose to enforce it. will check with SPARQL
Bijan Parsia: we can choose to enforce it. will check with SPARQL ←
18:13:10 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
18:13:12 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:13:14 <Zhe> sandro: having a no colon name is bad because it is hard to evolve
Sandro Hawke: having a no colon name is bad because it is hard to evolve ←
18:13:19 <ekw> zakim, ++1.301.351.aabb is me
Evan Wallace: zakim, ++1.301.351.aabb is me ←
18:13:19 <Zakim> sorry, ekw, I do not recognize a party named '++1.301.351.aabb'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ekw, I do not recognize a party named '++1.301.351.aabb' ←
18:13:21 <Zhe> ivan: we should not have that
Ivan Herman: we should not have that ←
18:13:38 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:13:40 <Zhe> alanr: do we want to wait for SPARQL comment?
Alan Ruttenberg: do we want to wait for SPARQL comment? ←
18:13:41 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
18:13:49 <Zhe> bmotik: SPARQL mandates it
Boris Motik: SPARQL mandates it ←
18:14:10 <pfps> let's go for PREFIX, just like SPARQL
Peter Patel-Schneider: let's go for PREFIX, just like SPARQL ←
18:14:17 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:14:17 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:14:19 <ivan> ship it:-)
Ivan Herman: ship it:-) ←
18:14:24 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:14:31 <ekw> zakim, 1.301.351.aabb is me
Evan Wallace: zakim, 1.301.351.aabb is me ←
18:14:31 <Zakim> sorry, ekw, I do not recognize a party named '1.301.351.aabb'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ekw, I do not recognize a party named '1.301.351.aabb' ←
18:14:35 <ivan> eliminate
Ivan Herman: eliminate ←
18:14:35 <Zhe> bmotik: final question, do we still call it CURIEs,
Boris Motik: final question, do we still call it CURIEs, ←
18:14:38 <pfps> use prefixed name, just like SPARQL
Peter Patel-Schneider: use prefixed name, just like SPARQL ←
18:14:48 <ivan> +1 to pfps
Ivan Herman: +1 to pfps ←
18:14:49 <Zhe> alanr: I suggest not
Alan Ruttenberg: I suggest not ←
18:14:52 <Zhe> bmotik: agree
Boris Motik: agree ←
18:14:58 <Zakim> +calvanese
Zakim IRC Bot: +calvanese ←
18:15:00 <Zhe> bparsia: agree as well
Bijan Parsia: agree as well ←
18:15:01 <schneid> "abbreviated IRIs"
Michael Schneider: "abbreviated IRIs" ←
18:15:08 <pfps> SPARQL syntax says IRIref ::= IRI_REF | PrefixedName
Peter Patel-Schneider: SPARQL syntax says IRIref ::= IRI_REF | PrefixedName ←
18:15:13 <Zhe> bparsia: don't know CURIE will continue
Bijan Parsia: don't know CURIE will continue ←
18:15:23 <alanr> PROPOSED: OWL will not rely on CURIEs spec but will define it's own IRI abbreviation mechanism compatible with the one used by SPARQL
PROPOSED: OWL will not rely on CURIEs spec but will define it's own IRI abbreviation mechanism compatible with the one used by SPARQL ←
18:15:38 <pfps> +1 ALU
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU ←
18:15:39 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:15:39 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:15:40 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:15:41 <bparsia> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
18:15:43 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:15:43 <bernardo> +1
18:15:44 <msmith> +1
Mike Smith: +1 ←
18:15:46 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
18:15:47 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:15:48 <schneid> 0
18:15:49 <zimmer> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
18:15:52 <sandro> +0 (haven't studied it enough)
Sandro Hawke: +0 (haven't studied it enough) ←
18:15:55 <ekw> +0
Evan Wallace: +0 ←
18:16:00 <alanr> RESOLVED: OWL will not rely on CURIEs spec but will define it's own IRI abbreviation mechanism compatible with the one used by SPARQL
RESOLVED: OWL will not rely on CURIEs spec but will define it's own IRI abbreviation mechanism compatible with the one used by SPARQL ←
18:16:06 <Zhe> +1
+1 ←
18:16:32 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Naming
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Naming ←
18:16:36 <sandro> scribe: sandro
(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)
18:16:48 <sandro> alan: Ian has written up how he understand we use Names
Alan Ruttenberg: Ian has written up how he understand we use Names ←
18:17:03 <calvanese> zakim, mute me
Diego Calvanese: zakim, mute me ←
18:17:03 <Zakim> calvanese should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: calvanese should now be muted ←
18:17:08 <sandro> alan: Question 1 -- does thiis match your sense of the names
Alan Ruttenberg: Question 1 -- does thiis match your sense of the names ←
18:17:17 <sandro> alan: Question 2 -- where and how should we document this.
Alan Ruttenberg: Question 2 -- where and how should we document this. ←
18:17:18 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:17:27 <Zhe> I am back. thanks sandro!
Zhe Wu: I am back. thanks sandro! ←
18:17:29 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:17:33 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:17:55 <alanr> circular: OWL 2 ontology - any OWL 2 ontology
Alan Ruttenberg: circular: OWL 2 ontology - any OWL 2 ontology ←
18:18:03 <sandro> ivan: When the conf. document talks about "OWL 2 Full", it speaks of RDF graphs in general.
Ivan Herman: When the conf. document talks about "OWL 2 Full", it speaks of RDF graphs in general. ←
18:18:21 <sandro> "# OWL 2 ontology - any OWL 2 ontology "
"# OWL 2 ontology - any OWL 2 ontology " ←
18:18:29 <bparsia> Works for me
Bijan Parsia: Works for me ←
18:18:37 <sandro> q?
q? ←
18:18:38 <IanH> As in, without qualification!
Ian Horrocks: As in, without qualification! ←
18:18:47 <pfps> works fine for me "OWL 2 ontology" is any OWL 2 ontology
Peter Patel-Schneider: works fine for me "OWL 2 ontology" is any OWL 2 ontology ←
18:18:53 <bparsia> That's big enough!
Bijan Parsia: That's big enough! ←
18:18:57 <uli> me too
Uli Sattler: me too ←
18:19:03 <sandro> q+
q+ ←
18:19:14 <alanr> q+ jar
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ jar ←
18:19:18 <alanr> ack sandro
Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro ←
18:19:27 <Zhe> sandro: don't have a concrete proposal,
Sandro Hawke: don't have a concrete proposal, [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:19:28 <ivan> noooo:-(
Ivan Herman: noooo:-( ←
18:19:45 <uli> why?
Uli Sattler: why? ←
18:19:55 <IanH> q+
Ian Horrocks: q+ ←
18:20:06 <alanr> ack jar
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jar ←
18:20:19 <msmith> +1 to sandro. the two of us can agree to not use the informal terminology :)
Mike Smith: +1 to sandro. the two of us can agree to not use the informal terminology :) ←
18:20:48 <alanr> ack IanH
Alan Ruttenberg: ack IanH ←
18:21:21 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:21:56 <Zhe> IanH: could you please put what you said in IRC?
Ian Horrocks: could you please put what you said in IRC? [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:22:12 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:22:16 <sandro> q+ to propose we explain the informal extended terminology, labeling it as "legacy"
q+ to propose we explain the informal extended terminology, labeling it as "legacy" ←
18:22:35 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
18:22:39 <sandro> ian: And we agree in the spec to minimize the use of the the informal tech.
Ian Horrocks: And we agree in the spec to minimize the use of the the informal tech. ←
18:22:51 <IanH> q+
Ian Horrocks: q+ ←
18:22:58 <alanr> ack sandro
Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro ←
18:22:58 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to propose we explain the informal extended terminology, labeling it as "legacy"
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to propose we explain the informal extended terminology, labeling it as "legacy" ←
18:22:59 <sandro> alan: OWL 2 ontology == OWL 2 structure or RDF graph
Alan Ruttenberg: OWL 2 ontology == OWL 2 structure or RDF graph ←
18:23:17 <Zhe> sandro: what about "legacy", deprecation is too strong
Sandro Hawke: what about "legacy", deprecation is too strong [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:23:34 <pfps> +1
18:23:38 <Zhe> alanr: we agree that we will minimize in the spec
Alan Ruttenberg: we agree that we will minimize in the spec [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:24:29 <alanr> q+ to advocate that we explain these terms in the document overview
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to advocate that we explain these terms in the document overview ←
18:24:32 <alanr> ack IanH
Alan Ruttenberg: ack IanH ←
18:24:48 <Zhe> IanH: we are consistent when using the term
Ian Horrocks: we are consistent when using the term [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:25:03 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:25:13 <Zhe> sandro: I understand we should not say it. maybe we should imply
Sandro Hawke: I understand we should not say it. maybe we should imply [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:25:15 <pfps> tender sensibilities will be bruised by Sandro's proposal
Peter Patel-Schneider: tender sensibilities will be bruised by Sandro's proposal ←
18:25:23 <sandro> :-)
:-) ←
18:25:26 <Zhe> IanH: won't be hostile to some wordsmithing
Ian Horrocks: won't be hostile to some wordsmithing [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:25:30 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
18:25:30 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to advocate that we explain these terms in the document overview
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to advocate that we explain these terms in the document overview ←
18:25:37 <sandro> never tickle sleeping dragons?
never tickle sleeping dragons? ←
18:25:59 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:26:10 <alanr> ack ivaan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivaan ←
18:26:16 <Zhe> alanr: I like to see this in the document overview
Alan Ruttenberg: I like to see this in the document overview [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:26:23 <IanH> +1 to Ivan
Ian Horrocks: +1 to Ivan ←
18:26:40 <sandro> "We have avoided use of the term "OWL 2 Full", which is sometimes used to mean, ..., favoring separate terms for RDF Graph and RDF-Based Semantics"
"We have avoided use of the term "OWL 2 Full", which is sometimes used to mean, ..., favoring separate terms for RDF Graph and RDF-Based Semantics" ←
18:26:44 <Zhe> ivan: the current introduction is clear and the conformance is very clear
Ivan Herman: the current introduction is clear and the conformance is very clear [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:27:18 <pfps> Sandro is again underestimating the tenderness of sensibilities
Peter Patel-Schneider: Sandro is again underestimating the tenderness of sensibilities ←
18:27:33 <IanH> It's possible, but still suggest to take this off line
Ian Horrocks: It's possible, but still suggest to take this off line ←
18:27:50 <Zhe> alanr: haven't heard any objection,
Alan Ruttenberg: haven't heard any objection, [ Scribe Assist by Zhe Wu ] ←
18:28:04 <Zhe> ... make sure our usage in the document set follows this
Zhe Wu: ... make sure our usage in the document set follows this ←
18:28:10 <IanH> Peter (very kindly) check schema conformance already
Ian Horrocks: Peter (very kindly) check schema conformance already ←
18:28:20 <IanH> s/check/checked/
Ian Horrocks: s/check/checked/ ←
18:28:35 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
18:28:53 <schneid> bye
Michael Schneider: bye ←
18:28:56 <Rinke> bye
Rinke Hoekstra: bye ←
18:28:57 <Zakim> -bernardo
Zakim IRC Bot: -bernardo ←
18:28:58 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
18:28:59 <uli> bye
Uli Sattler: bye ←
18:28:59 <Zakim> -alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr ←
18:29:01 <Zakim> -bparsia
Zakim IRC Bot: -bparsia ←
18:29:02 <MarkusK_> bye
Markus Krötzsch: bye ←
18:29:03 <Zakim> - +1.301.351.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.301.351.aabb ←
18:29:03 <Zhe> bye
18:29:04 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
18:29:04 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
18:29:10 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
18:29:13 <Zakim> -schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid ←
18:29:14 <zimmer> bye
Antoine Zimmermann: bye ←
18:29:15 <Zakim> -uli
Zakim IRC Bot: -uli ←
18:29:16 <calvanese> bye
Diego Calvanese: bye ←
18:29:18 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK_ ←
18:29:19 <Zakim> -IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←
18:29:22 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
18:29:26 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
18:29:31 <Zakim> -calvanese
Zakim IRC Bot: -calvanese ←
18:29:53 <Zakim> -zimmer
Zakim IRC Bot: -zimmer ←
18:29:55 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended ←
18:29:56 <Zakim> Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik, IanH, +0161868aaaa, Zhe, Sandro, Ivan, uli, bparsia, Rinke, msmith, bernardo, zimmer, schneid, MarkusK_, jonathan, +1.301.351.aabb,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, bmotik, IanH, +0161868aaaa, Zhe, Sandro, Ivan, uli, bparsia, Rinke, msmith, bernardo, zimmer, schneid, MarkusK_, jonathan, +1.301.351.aabb, ←
18:29:59 <Zakim> ... calvanese
Zakim IRC Bot: ... calvanese ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2009-03-27 09:39:19 UTC by 'ihorrock2', comments: None