OWL Working Group

Minutes of 11 March 2009

Present
Peter Patel-Schneider Ivan Herman Boris Motik Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Alan Ruttenberg Achille Fokoue Mike Smith Evan Wallace Jie Bao Antoine Zimmermann Bernardo Cuenca Grau Ratnesh Sahay Peter Patel-Schneider Boris Motik Bijan Parsia Sandro Hawke Michael Schneider Zhe Wu Antoine Zimmermann Markus Krötzsch Christine Golbreich Jeff Pan Diego Calvanese
Scribe
Peter Patel-Schneider
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. accept minutes of Mar 4 link
  2. Add named datatypes to OWL 2 - one definition per datatype not in the datatype map, acyclic, as per email from Boris and mentioned in LC Comments 51 and 62. link
  3. (over one objection) OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24. link
  4. Remove the datatype owl:realPlus from OWL 2, as it was introduced to unify floats, doubles, and other numbers. link
  5. Publish http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Document_Overview as a FPWD, with changes agreed to in this meeting, and give folks 24 hours to object in case there's something critical they missed. link
Topics
00:00:00 <sandro> (this RRSAgent log isn't really an RRSAgent log.  We forgot to invite RRSAgent, so I took my xchat log and converted it to RRSAgent format and put it here.)

Sandro Hawke: (this RRSAgent log isn't really an RRSAgent log. We forgot to invite RRSAgent, so I took my xchat log and converted it to RRSAgent format and put it here.)

00:00:00 <scribenick> Present: Peter_Patel-Schneider, Ivan, bmotik, bcuencagrau, bijan, Alan Ruttenberg, Achille, msmith, ewallace, baojie, zimmer, bcuencagrau, Ratnesh, pfps, bmotik, bijan, sandro, Michael Schneider, Zhe, zimmer, markus, Christine Golbreich, Jeff Pan, calvanese
16:49:08 <bmotik> Zakim, this will be owl

(No events recorded for 1009 minutes)

Boris Motik: Zakim, this will be owl

16:49:08 <Zakim> ok, bmotik; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, bmotik; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

16:56:26 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started

16:56:33 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider

16:56:56 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

16:56:56 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

16:56:58 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

16:57:31 <Zakim> +aliman

Zakim IRC Bot: +aliman

16:57:44 <bmotik> Zakim, aliman is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, aliman is me

16:57:44 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it

16:57:48 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

16:57:48 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

16:58:13 <Zakim> +bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a

16:58:19 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

16:58:23 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, bmotik.a is bcuencagrau

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, bmotik.a is bcuencagrau

16:58:23 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it

16:58:26 <bijan> zakim, ??p11 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p11 is me

16:58:26 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it

16:58:28 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me

16:58:28 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

16:58:30 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

16:58:30 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

16:59:50 <Zakim> + +03539158aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +03539158aaaa

17:00:17 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aabb

17:01:07 <zimmer> Zakim, +03539158aaaa is mme

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, +03539158aaaa is mme

17:01:07 <Zakim> +mme; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mme; got it

17:01:18 <zimmer> Zakim, +03539158aaaa is me

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, +03539158aaaa is me

17:01:18 <Zakim> sorry, zimmer, I do not recognize a party named '+03539158aaaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, zimmer, I do not recognize a party named '+03539158aaaa'

17:01:45 <zimmer> Zakim, 03539158aaaa is me

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, 03539158aaaa is me

17:01:45 <Zakim> sorry, zimmer, I do not recognize a party named '03539158aaaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, zimmer, I do not recognize a party named '03539158aaaa'

17:02:31 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Rees

Zakim IRC Bot: +Jonathan_Rees

17:02:59 <alanr> zakim, Jonathan_Rees is me

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, Jonathan_Rees is me

17:02:59 <Zakim> +alanr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it

17:04:33 <ivan> scribenick: pfps

(Scribe set to Peter Patel-Schneider)

17:04:48 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aacc

17:04:51 <pfps> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

17:04:55 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

17:04:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Ivan, bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), bijan (muted), mme, +1.518.276.aabb, alanr, +1.202.408.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Ivan, bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), bijan (muted), mme, +1.518.276.aabb, alanr, +1.202.408.aacc

17:04:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, msmith, ewallace, baojie, zimmer, alanr, bcuencagrau, ivan, Ratnesh, pfps, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, msmith, ewallace, baojie, zimmer, alanr, bcuencagrau, ivan, Ratnesh, pfps, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, sandro, trackbot

17:05:10 <pfps> SubTopic: Agenda amendments

1.1. Agenda amendments

17:05:26 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

17:05:31 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

17:05:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Ivan, bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), bijan (muted), mme, +1.518.276.aabb, alanr, msmith, [IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Ivan, bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), bijan (muted), mme, +1.518.276.aabb, alanr, msmith, [IBM]

17:05:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, msmith, ewallace, baojie, zimmer, alanr, bcuencagrau, ivan, Ratnesh, pfps, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, msmith, ewallace, baojie, zimmer, alanr, bcuencagrau, ivan, Ratnesh, pfps, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, sandro, trackbot

17:05:43 <baojie> Zakim, aabb is baojie

Jie Bao: Zakim, aabb is baojie

17:05:43 <Zakim> +baojie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie; got it

17:05:43 <pfps> SubTopic: Minutes

1.2. Minutes

17:05:46 <pfps> q+

q+

17:05:48 <Achille> zakim, ibm is me

Achille Fokoue: zakim, ibm is me

17:05:48 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it

17:05:57 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

17:06:01 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

17:06:04 <ivan> ack pfps

Ivan Herman: ack pfps

17:06:09 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

17:06:11 <pfps> PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (4 March)

PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (4 March)

17:06:15 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

17:06:17 <pfps> alanr: comprehensible

Alan Ruttenberg: comprehensible

17:06:17 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

17:06:21 <pfps> pfps: minimally acceptable

Peter Patel-Schneider: minimally acceptable

17:06:23 <pfps> pfps: +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

17:06:24 <zimmer> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

17:06:25 <christine> q

Christine Golbreich: q

17:06:30 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:06:59 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

17:07:05 <pfps> christine: minutes cut off

Christine Golbreich: minutes cut off

17:07:06 <schneid> zakim, ??P1 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P1 is me

17:07:09 <Zakim> +schneid; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it

17:07:09 <pfps> q+

q+

17:07:12 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:07:19 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

17:07:19 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

17:07:21 <christine> zakim, ??P1 is me

Christine Golbreich: zakim, ??P1 is me

17:07:38 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aadd

17:07:39 <Zakim> I already had ??P1 as schneid, christine

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P1 as schneid, christine

17:07:40 <pfps> pfps: what is missing

Peter Patel-Schneider: what is missing

17:07:44 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:07:48 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

17:07:49 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me

17:07:49 <pfps> christine: IRC occured after end

Christine Golbreich: IRC occured after end

17:07:51 <pfps> q+

q+

17:07:56 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it

17:07:56 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

17:08:19 <pfps> pfps: discussion was not part of the meeting

Peter Patel-Schneider: discussion was not part of the meeting

17:08:27 <msmith> I don't see anything else at http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-owl-irc

Mike Smith: I don't see anything else at http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-owl-irc

17:08:38 <pfps> q+

q+

17:08:45 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

17:09:26 <zimmer> zakim, mme is really zimmer

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mme is really zimmer

17:09:26 <Zakim> +zimmer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zimmer; got it

17:09:50 <pfps> alanr: things that happen after the meeting are not part of the meeting

Alan Ruttenberg: things that happen after the meeting are not part of the meeting

17:10:05 <pfps> q+

q+

17:10:16 <sandro> I guess we're talking about these lines in the irc:

Sandro Hawke: I guess we're talking about these lines in the irc:

17:10:16 <sandro> 19_36_45 [uli_] am i scribing this?

Sandro Hawke: 19_36_45 [uli_] am i scribing this?

17:10:16 <sandro> 19_36_55 [uli_] i thought so

Sandro Hawke: 19_36_55 [uli_] i thought so

17:10:16 <sandro> 19_41_28 [msmith] msmith has left #owl

Sandro Hawke: 19_41_28 [msmith] msmith has left #owl

17:10:16 <sandro> 19_52_01 [uli_]     DisjointUnion(A B1 B2 ...Bk)

Sandro Hawke: 19_52_01 [uli_] DisjointUnion(A B1 B2 ...Bk)

17:10:16 <sandro> 19_53_10 [uli_]     HasSelf(R)

Sandro Hawke: 19_53_10 [uli_] HasSelf(R)

17:10:16 <sandro> 19_53_41 [uli_]     MaxCardinality(n R C)

Sandro Hawke: 19_53_41 [uli_] MaxCardinality(n R C)

17:10:35 <sandro> (that was from http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-owl-irc)

Sandro Hawke: (that was from http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-owl-irc)

17:10:49 <sandro> (and rightfully cut from http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-03-04 )

Sandro Hawke: (and rightfully cut from http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-03-04 )

17:10:37 <pfps> Resolved: accept minutes of Mar 4

RESOLVED: accept minutes of Mar 4

17:11:27 <pfps> sandro: discussion from last week is added to records of this meeting

Sandro Hawke: discussion from last week is added to records of this meeting

17:11:32 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:11:34 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:11:36 <pfps> Subtopic: Action item status

1.3. Action item status

17:11:50 <pfps> alanr: pending review actions

Alan Ruttenberg: pending review actions

17:12:14 <pfps> alanr: what about 301 - is Andy happy?

Alan Ruttenberg: what about 301 - is Andy happy?

17:12:25 <pfps> baojie: didn't hear anything back

Jie Bao: didn't hear anything back

17:12:26 <bijan> Perhaps I should take it

Bijan Parsia: Perhaps I should take it

17:12:31 <pfps> alanr: keep open?

Alan Ruttenberg: keep open?

17:12:31 <bijan> I'm interacting with andy via sparql

Bijan Parsia: I'm interacting with andy via sparql

17:12:55 <pfps> sandro: please ping andy and tell him we want to republish soon

Sandro Hawke: please ping andy and tell him we want to republish soon

17:13:10 <pfps> alanr: please adjust status of 301

Alan Ruttenberg: please adjust status of 301

17:13:23 <pfps> baojie: OK

Jie Bao: OK

17:13:23 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:13:26 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

17:13:27 <pfps> q-

q-

17:13:42 <pfps> SubTopic: Due and Overdue Actions

1.4. Due and Overdue Actions

17:14:10 <pfps> q+

q+

17:14:49 <pfps> boris: 270 will be picked up in current edits

Boris Motik: 270 will be picked up in current edits

17:15:01 <pfps> boris: currently in progress

Boris Motik: currently in progress

17:15:19 <pfps> sandro: ongoing discussion with RIF on 292

Sandro Hawke: ongoing discussion with RIF on 292

17:15:28 <pfps> alanr: 300 is done

Alan Ruttenberg: 300 is done

17:15:39 <pfps> sandro: waiting on 299 until publication

Sandro Hawke: waiting on 299 until publication

17:15:49 <pfps> alanr: 283 is done

Alan Ruttenberg: 283 is done

17:15:58 <pfps> Topic: Datatypes

2. Datatypes

17:16:13 <pfps> alanr: several (draft) proposals on the table

Alan Ruttenberg: several (draft) proposals on the table

17:16:20 <bijan> I'm good with it

Bijan Parsia: I'm good with it

17:16:25 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

17:16:28 <alanr> Proposal: Add named datatypes to OWL 2 - one definition per datatype not in the datatype map, acyclic, as per email from Boris and mentioned in LC Comments 51 and 62.

PROPOSED: Add named datatypes to OWL 2 - one definition per datatype not in the datatype map, acyclic, as per email from Boris and mentioned in LC Comments 51 and 62.

17:16:36 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

17:16:37 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

17:16:37 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

17:16:39 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

17:16:40 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1

17:16:40 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

17:16:41 <schneid> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

17:16:42 <christine> +1

Christine Golbreich: +1

17:16:43 <zimmer> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

17:16:45 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

17:16:47 <pfps> pfps: +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

17:16:47 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

17:16:47 <Ratnesh> +1

Ratnesh Sahay: +1

17:16:48 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

17:16:48 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

17:16:51 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

17:16:59 <pfps> Resolved: Add named datatypes to OWL 2 - one definition per datatype not in the datatype map, acyclic, as per email from Boris and mentioned in LC Comments 51 and 62.

RESOLVED: Add named datatypes to OWL 2 - one definition per datatype not in the datatype map, acyclic, as per email from Boris and mentioned in LC Comments 51 and 62.

17:17:33 <pfps> alanr: datatype disjointness - Sandro will moderate

Alan Ruttenberg: datatype disjointness - Sandro will moderate

17:17:44 <pfps> Draft Proposal: OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24.

Draft Proposal: OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24.

17:18:02 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

17:18:15 <ivan> ack pfps

Ivan Herman: ack pfps

17:18:26 <pfps> sandro: discussed at F2F5 - Alan and Zhe wanted to wait

Sandro Hawke: discussed at F2F5 - Alan and Zhe wanted to wait

17:18:36 <pfps> sandro: Zhe seems to be comfortable now

Sandro Hawke: Zhe seems to be comfortable now

17:18:45 <pfps> q-

q-

17:19:13 <pfps> alanr: communicated with Chris Welty (RIF chair)

Alan Ruttenberg: communicated with Chris Welty (RIF chair)

17:19:25 <Zhe> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

17:19:26 <schneid> alan, if we *keep* disjointness?

Michael Schneider: alan, if we *keep* disjointness?

17:19:31 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:19:44 <pfps> alanr: Rees unhappy if we have the extra disjointness

Alan Ruttenberg: Rees unhappy if we have the extra disjointness

17:19:44 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:19:44 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:20:10 <pfps> alanr: XML Schema has issues for us and is not unhappy with our current design

Alan Ruttenberg: XML Schema has issues for us and is not unhappy with our current design

17:20:22 <pfps> alanr: so no need to change and little gain

Alan Ruttenberg: so no need to change and little gain

17:20:22 <schneid> alanr: jonathan rees considers formally objecting against disjointness

Alan Ruttenberg: jonathan rees considers formally objecting against disjointness [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

17:20:26 <sandro> ack Zhe

Sandro Hawke: ack Zhe

17:20:46 <sandro> (Gary Hallmark)

Sandro Hawke: (Gary Hallmark)

17:20:55 <sandro> (the Oracle rep in RIF)

Sandro Hawke: (the Oracle rep in RIF)

17:21:18 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:21:18 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

17:21:18 <sandro> ack bijan

Sandro Hawke: ack bijan

17:21:19 <pfps> zhe: talked to Oracle's RIF rep and team - want to be aligned with XML schema

Zhe Wu: talked to Oracle's RIF rep and team - want to be aligned with XML schema

17:21:22 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:21:22 <Zakim> bmotik was already muted, bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was already muted, bmotik

17:22:02 <pfps> bijan: SC is likely to object if disjointness changed, Manchester likely to object if not changed

Bijan Parsia: SC is likely to object if disjointness changed, Manchester likely to object if not changed

17:22:20 <pfps> bijan: I think that we made a mistake and we should change

Bijan Parsia: I think that we made a mistake and we should change

17:22:21 <Zhe> Oracle wants OWL spec to be aligned with XML schema in terms of datatype disjointness

Zhe Wu: Oracle wants OWL spec to be aligned with XML schema in terms of datatype disjointness

17:22:27 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

17:22:33 <pfps> sandro: what about the binary DTs

Sandro Hawke: what about the binary DTs

17:22:49 <pfps> bijan: because all primitives are disjoint

Bijan Parsia: because all primitives are disjoint

17:23:01 <msmith> q- bijan covered it

Mike Smith: q- bijan covered it

17:23:04 <msmith> q-

Mike Smith: q-

17:23:13 <pfps> bijan: so no conversion/coersion is needed

Bijan Parsia: so no conversion/coersion is needed

17:23:14 <alanr> I don't think it's right but I wouldn't object.

Alan Ruttenberg: I don't think it's right but I wouldn't object.

17:23:45 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:23:45 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:24:04 <pfps> sandro: other objections?

Sandro Hawke: other objections?

17:24:13 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

17:24:13 <pfps> pfps: not object but strong for disjoint

Peter Patel-Schneider: not object but strong for disjoint

17:24:19 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:24:19 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

17:24:21 <sandro> ack schneid

Sandro Hawke: ack schneid

17:24:36 <pfps> schneid: need to talk to my institute for objection

Michael Schneider: need to talk to my institute for objection

17:24:45 <pfps> q+

q+

17:24:49 <sandro> ack pfps

Sandro Hawke: ack pfps

17:25:18 <pfps> pfps: for an objection, only?

Peter Patel-Schneider: for an objection, only?

17:25:21 <pfps> schneid: right

Michael Schneider: right

17:25:32 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

17:25:39 <bmotik> 1+

Boris Motik: 1+

17:25:41 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

17:25:46 <pfps> sandro: no need to wait on vote

Sandro Hawke: no need to wait on vote

17:25:48 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:25:48 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:25:48 <sandro> ack alanr

Sandro Hawke: ack alanr

17:25:48 <bijan> +1 to sandro's assessment

Bijan Parsia: +1 to sandro's assessment

17:25:50 <ivan>  ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr

17:25:57 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:26:02 <pfps> alanr: what about discussion with RIF

Alan Ruttenberg: what about discussion with RIF

17:26:16 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

17:26:19 <pfps> sandro: most opinions don't depend on RIF, I think

Sandro Hawke: most opinions don't depend on RIF, I think

17:26:36 <schneid> schneid: All I said is that I will consult with my institute to see where we stand, and how strong, since compatibilty questions are generally relevant for us

Michael Schneider: All I said is that I will consult with my institute to see where we stand, and how strong, since compatibilty questions are generally relevant for us [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

17:26:41 <bijan> I wouldn't change my mind

Bijan Parsia: I wouldn't change my mind

17:26:47 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

17:26:50 <sandro> ack bmotik

Sandro Hawke: ack bmotik

17:26:51 <pfps> sandro: if RIF changes, then this might trigger some more discussion

Sandro Hawke: if RIF changes, then this might trigger some more discussion

17:27:01 <pfps> boris: vote on numerics or all?

Boris Motik: vote on numerics or all?

17:27:11 <sandro> PROPOSED: OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24.

PROPOSED: OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24.

17:27:17 <pfps> sandro: proposal is as in XML Schema

Sandro Hawke: proposal is as in XML Schema

17:27:37 <sandro> ack bijan

Sandro Hawke: ack bijan

17:27:38 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:27:40 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

17:27:41 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

17:27:48 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:27:48 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

17:28:02 <pfps> bijan: could SC change depending on RIF discussion?

Bijan Parsia: could SC change depending on RIF discussion?

17:28:07 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

17:28:09 <sandro> ack alanr

Sandro Hawke: ack alanr

17:28:30 <pfps> alanr: can't rule it out

Alan Ruttenberg: can't rule it out

17:28:43 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:28:43 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:28:48 <pfps> alanr: is there new information?

Alan Ruttenberg: is there new information?

17:28:51 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:28:52 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

17:28:53 <pfps> q+

q+

17:29:02 <pfps> sandro: implementation report is new information

Sandro Hawke: implementation report is new information

17:29:10 <sandro> ack bijan

Sandro Hawke: ack bijan

17:29:22 <alanr> disagree that they were strongest champion

Alan Ruttenberg: disagree that they were strongest champion

17:29:50 <pfps> bijan: and also change from Oxford, Oracle

Bijan Parsia: and also change from Oxford, Oracle

17:29:58 <sandro> ack alanr

Sandro Hawke: ack alanr

17:30:16 <sandro> ack pfps

Sandro Hawke: ack pfps

17:30:27 <alanr> good point

Alan Ruttenberg: good point

17:30:30 <pfps> pfps: we also have LC comments on the issue

Peter Patel-Schneider: we also have LC comments on the issue

17:30:42 <sandro> PROPOSED: OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24.

PROPOSED: OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24.

17:31:01 <sandro> (formal vote by organization, expecting objection from Science Commons.)

Sandro Hawke: (formal vote by organization, expecting objection from Science Commons.)

17:30:53 <ewallace> +1 (NIST)

Evan Wallace: +1 (NIST)

17:30:54 <pfps> pfps: +1 ALU

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU

17:30:59 <bijan> +1 (Manchester)

Bijan Parsia: +1 (Manchester)

17:31:00 <schneid> +1 (FZI)

Michael Schneider: +1 (FZI)

17:31:01 <alanr> -1 (Science Commons)

Alan Ruttenberg: -1 (Science Commons)

17:31:02 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)

Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford)

17:31:03 <Achille> +1 (IBM)

Achille Fokoue: +1 (IBM)

17:31:04 <baojie> +1 (RPI)

Jie Bao: +1 (RPI)

17:31:07 <Zhe> +1 ORACLE

Zhe Wu: +1 ORACLE

17:31:07 <christine> +1

Christine Golbreich: +1

17:31:11 <zimmer> +1 (DERI)

Antoine Zimmermann: +1 (DERI)

17:31:11 <ivan> +1 (W3C)

Ivan Herman: +1 (W3C)

17:31:12 <Ratnesh> +1

Ratnesh Sahay: +1

17:31:23 <msmith> +1 C&P

Mike Smith: +1 C&P

17:31:54 <sandro> RESOLVED: (over one objection) OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24.

RESOLVED: (over one objection) OWL 2 datatypes will have disjointness as in XML Schema (i.e., the datatypes xsd:string, xsd:boolean, owl:real, xsd:float, xsd:double, xsd:dateTimeStamp, xsd:hexBinary, xsd:base64Binary, and xsd:anyURI are pairwise disjoint), as requested in LC Comments 22 and 24.

17:32:44 <sandro> PROPOSED: OWL 2 datatypes will be as in Last Call draft (non-disjoint)  -- the inverse of the above resolution

PROPOSED: OWL 2 datatypes will be as in Last Call draft (non-disjoint) -- the inverse of the above resolution

17:32:45 <bijan> And Manchester would formally object if this resolution was overturned

Bijan Parsia: And Manchester would formally object if this resolution was overturned

17:32:51 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

17:32:54 <bijan> -1 (formal object) (Manchester)

Bijan Parsia: -1 (formal object) (Manchester)

17:32:56 <pfps> pfps: -0

Peter Patel-Schneider: -0

17:33:04 <msmith> 0 C&P

Mike Smith: 0 C&P

17:33:05 <bmotik> 0

Boris Motik: 0

17:33:06 <alanr> +1 (Science Commons)

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 (Science Commons)

17:33:08 <sandro> -0

Sandro Hawke: -0

17:33:10 <ewallace> -0

Evan Wallace: -0

17:33:17 <Achille> -1 (IBM)

Achille Fokoue: -1 (IBM)

17:33:21 <schneid> -0

Michael Schneider: -0

17:33:25 <ivan> -1

Ivan Herman: -1

17:33:26 <Zhe> -0 (depends on RIF)

Zhe Wu: -0 (depends on RIF)

17:33:27 <christine> 0

Christine Golbreich: 0

17:33:28 <baojie> 0

Jie Bao: 0

17:33:33 <zimmer> 0

Antoine Zimmermann: 0

17:33:36 <Ratnesh> 0 (DERI)

Ratnesh Sahay: 0 (DERI)

17:33:57 <sandro> proposal fails, as expected -- clarifying need to override one objections.

Sandro Hawke: proposal fails, as expected -- clarifying need to override one objections.

17:34:12 <schneid> (might become a -1, depending on outcome with talking to my institute)

Michael Schneider: (might become a -1, depending on outcome with talking to my institute)

17:34:57 <pfps> alanr: what about owl:real - it seems to be not useful now

Alan Ruttenberg: what about owl:real - it seems to be not useful now

17:34:58 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

17:35:02 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr

17:35:10 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:35:10 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:35:15 <bijan> Email

Bijan Parsia: Email

17:35:20 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:35:25 <sandro> ack bmotik

Sandro Hawke: ack bmotik

17:35:28 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik

17:35:39 <pfps> boris: owl:realPlus is useless now

Boris Motik: owl:realPlus is useless now

17:35:42 <pfps> q+

q+

17:35:44 <bijan> That was my understanding

Bijan Parsia: That was my understanding

17:35:45 <sandro> ack pfps

Sandro Hawke: ack pfps

17:35:46 <msmith> yes, realPlus is out

Mike Smith: yes, realPlus is out

17:35:57 <pfps> pfps: there is a draft proposal to remove realPlus

Peter Patel-Schneider: there is a draft proposal to remove realPlus

17:36:06 <sandro> PROPOSED: Remove the datatype owl:realPlus from OWL 2, as it was introduced to unify floats, doubles, and other numbers.

PROPOSED: Remove the datatype owl:realPlus from OWL 2, as it was introduced to unify floats, doubles, and other numbers.

17:36:23 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

17:36:24 <msmith> +1 (C&P)

Mike Smith: +1 (C&P)

17:36:24 <zimmer> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

17:36:26 <pfps> bijan: do it

Bijan Parsia: do it

17:36:27 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)

Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford)

17:36:30 <Zhe> +1 (ORACLE)

Zhe Wu: +1 (ORACLE)

17:36:33 <pfps> boris: it goes

Boris Motik: it goes

17:36:34 <ewallace> +1 (NIST)

Evan Wallace: +1 (NIST)

17:36:36 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:36:36 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:36:37 <bijan> +1 (Manchester)

Bijan Parsia: +1 (Manchester)

17:36:39 <schneid> +1 (FZI)

Michael Schneider: +1 (FZI)

17:36:39 <Ratnesh> +1 (DERI)

Ratnesh Sahay: +1 (DERI)

17:36:40 <pfps> pfps: +1 ALU

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU

17:36:43 <alanr> 0 (Science Commons) only if previous proposal stands.

Alan Ruttenberg: 0 (Science Commons) only if previous proposal stands.

17:36:55 <sandro> RESOLVED: Remove the datatype owl:realPlus from OWL 2, as it was introduced to unify floats, doubles, and other numbers.

RESOLVED: Remove the datatype owl:realPlus from OWL 2, as it was introduced to unify floats, doubles, and other numbers.

17:37:10 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

17:37:14 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

17:37:41 <pfps> alanr: if the previous proposal is overturned, then realPlus should rise from the grave

Alan Ruttenberg: if the previous proposal is overturned, then realPlus should rise from the grave

17:37:51 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:38:14 <pfps> Topic: Document plans

3. Document plans

17:38:28 <bmotik> Zakum, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakum, unmute me

17:38:37 <pfps> alanr: status of changes to syntax?

Alan Ruttenberg: status of changes to syntax?

17:38:49 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:38:49 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:39:10 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:39:10 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:39:13 <pfps> boris: probably tomorrow is the end of the big changes, but maybe Friday

Boris Motik: probably tomorrow is the end of the big changes, but maybe Friday

17:39:14 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:39:21 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

17:39:28 <pfps> alanr: rdf:text

Alan Ruttenberg: rdf:text

17:39:49 <pfps> baojie: <scribe needs help here>

Jie Bao: <scribe needs help here>

17:40:11 <pfps> bijan: sparql may have something to say, but there is sufficient player overlap

Bijan Parsia: sparql may have something to say, but there is sufficient player overlap

17:40:23 <pfps> bijan: I'll ping axel

Bijan Parsia: I'll ping axel

17:40:39 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:40:40 <pfps> sandro: we want rdf:text to go to LC ASAP, ask them for review

Sandro Hawke: we want rdf:text to go to LC ASAP, ask them for review

17:41:04 <baojie> baojie: I have done changes per Andy's comment. I'm not aware of other comments

Jie Bao: I have done changes per Andy's comment. I'm not aware of other comments [ Scribe Assist by Jie Bao ]

17:41:13 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:41:14 <pfps> alanr: we don't want to formally link to sparql because of timing

Alan Ruttenberg: we don't want to formally link to sparql because of timing

17:41:17 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

17:41:43 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:42:07 <pfps> ivan: sparql is very early so we may not get any good information from them, any feedback is likely only andy

Ivan Herman: sparql is very early so we may not get any good information from them, any feedback is likely only andy

17:42:07 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

17:42:45 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

17:42:54 <pfps> bijan: i share these concerns, but ... we would like sparql to do sparql owl and sparql has new virtuous people

Bijan Parsia: i share these concerns, but ... we would like sparql to do sparql owl and sparql has new virtuous people

17:43:10 <pfps> bijan: sparql should implement rdf:text

Bijan Parsia: sparql should implement rdf:text

17:43:14 <alanr> ack sandro

Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro

17:43:17 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:43:25 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:43:31 <pfps> sandro: maybe not, i would be unhappy if it would

Sandro Hawke: maybe not, i would be unhappy if it would

17:43:42 <pfps> sandro: andy had last comments that were editorial

Sandro Hawke: andy had last comments that were editorial

17:43:43 <alanr> that was my understanding

Alan Ruttenberg: that was my understanding

17:43:51 <pfps> bijan: then no worries

Bijan Parsia: then no worries

17:44:08 <pfps> sandro: lets address comments (andy) and go to LC when sparql can review

Sandro Hawke: lets address comments (andy) and go to LC when sparql can review

17:44:11 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

17:44:12 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

17:44:21 <pfps> sandro: Are we happy? Is RIF happy? If so, proceed.

Sandro Hawke: Are we happy? Is RIF happy? If so, proceed.

17:44:40 <pfps> alanr: need schedule for LC on rdf:text

Alan Ruttenberg: need schedule for LC on rdf:text

17:45:10 <pfps> baojie: need andy happy - I also have extra comments that may need some time

Jie Bao: need andy happy - I also have extra comments that may need some time

17:45:13 <pfps> alanr: schedule?

Alan Ruttenberg: schedule?

17:45:31 <christine> irc frozen ?

Christine Golbreich: irc frozen ?

17:45:31 <pfps> baojie: depends on andy responding

Jie Bao: depends on andy responding

17:45:41 <pfps> ivan: andy did just reply

Ivan Herman: andy did just reply

17:46:09 <christine> q

Christine Golbreich: q

17:46:24 <pfps> alanr: want to ensure progress - please get firm schedule by next week

Alan Ruttenberg: want to ensure progress - please get firm schedule by next week

17:46:33 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:46:35 <pfps> baojie: andy doesn't have time to review

Jie Bao: andy doesn't have time to review

17:46:41 <ivan> his reply is: We have not had time to review the changes.  I was not aware there was a time scale and will endeavour to review the changes soon.

Ivan Herman: his reply is: We have not had time to review the changes. I was not aware there was a time scale and will endeavour to review the changes soon.

17:46:49 <pfps> alanr: can we press the issue?

Alan Ruttenberg: can we press the issue?

17:46:51 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

17:47:39 <pfps> bijan: editors can make a good attempt.  if they think that the changes are OK, then we can proceed, even without responses

Bijan Parsia: editors can make a good attempt. if they think that the changes are OK, then we can proceed, even without responses

17:47:55 <pfps> alanr: by next week we  want a firm schedule

Alan Ruttenberg: by next week we want a firm schedule

17:48:05 <pfps> baojie: OK - I'll talk to the parties

Jie Bao: OK - I'll talk to the parties

17:48:19 <pfps> alanr: Quick Reference Guide

Alan Ruttenberg: Quick Reference Guide

17:48:24 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:48:29 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

17:48:39 <pfps> alanr: we need reviewers for this - not a LC publication

Alan Ruttenberg: we need reviewers for this - not a LC publication

17:48:46 <pfps> ivan: I'll review

Ivan Herman: I'll review

17:48:47 <bijan> I can secure a reviewer from Manchester

Bijan Parsia: I can secure a reviewer from Manchester

17:48:48 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:48:52 <bcuencagrau> I can

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I can

17:48:56 <pfps> christine: I'll review

Christine Golbreich: I'll review

17:49:10 <pfps> action: ivan review QRG

ACTION: ivan review QRG

17:49:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-306 - Review QRG [on Ivan Herman - due 2009-03-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-306 - Review QRG [on Ivan Herman - due 2009-03-18].

17:49:12 <bcuencagrau> A week is fine

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: A week is fine

17:49:21 <pfps> action: christine review QRG

ACTION: christine review QRG

17:49:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-307 - Review QRG [on Christine Golbreich - due 2009-03-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-307 - Review QRG [on Christine Golbreich - due 2009-03-18].

17:49:32 <pfps> action: bijan review QRG

ACTION: bijan review QRG

17:49:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-308 - Review QRG [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-03-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-308 - Review QRG [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-03-18].

17:49:35 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:49:54 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:49:58 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

17:49:59 <pfps> action: bernardo review QRG

ACTION: bernardo review QRG

17:49:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-309 - Review QRG [on Bernardo Cuenca Grau - due 2009-03-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-309 - Review QRG [on Bernardo Cuenca Grau - due 2009-03-18].

17:50:09 <pfps> bijan: review what form?

Bijan Parsia: review what form?

17:50:28 <pfps> ivan: review wiki, other versions may look somewhat different

Ivan Herman: review wiki, other versions may look somewhat different

17:50:48 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:50:53 <pfps> bijan: what about making the QRG look really nice - i've done some work

Bijan Parsia: what about making the QRG look really nice - i've done some work

17:51:17 <pfps> alanr: review document for content and HTML presentation

Alan Ruttenberg: review document for content and HTML presentation

17:51:33 <pfps> bijan: but QRG is supposed to have HTML look like PDF

Bijan Parsia: but QRG is supposed to have HTML look like PDF

17:51:49 <pfps> baojie: HTML is 10 pages PDF will be much less

Jie Bao: HTML is 10 pages PDF will be much less

17:52:02 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:52:12 <pfps> bijan:  I sent out a css method that makes the HTML and the PDF look the same

Bijan Parsia: I sent out a css method that makes the HTML and the PDF look the same

17:52:13 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:52:17 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

17:52:26 <pfps> bijan: there appears to be two documents, is there, what am I reviewing

Bijan Parsia: there appears to be two documents, is there, what am I reviewing

17:52:44 <pfps> baojie: content is the same, layout is a bit different - PDF is three columns

Jie Bao: content is the same, layout is a bit different - PDF is three columns

17:52:54 <pfps> bijan: but css can to multi-column

Bijan Parsia: but css can to multi-column

17:53:05 <bijan> This isn't current? http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/images/8/8b/Owl2-refcard_2008-10-01.pdf

Bijan Parsia: This isn't current? http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/images/8/8b/Owl2-refcard_2008-10-01.pdf

17:53:11 <cgolbrei> struggling with IRC frozen!

Christine Golbreich: struggling with IRC frozen!

17:53:27 <pfps> ivan: this document is going to REC, so the W3C HTML version is authoritative

Ivan Herman: this document is going to REC, so the W3C HTML version is authoritative

17:53:29 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:53:30 <baojie> No, it is obsolete

Jie Bao: No, it is obsolete

17:53:34 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

17:53:44 <pfps> ivan: other display methods are not authoritative

Ivan Herman: other display methods are not authoritative

17:53:55 <pfps> bijan: I didn't expect this

Bijan Parsia: I didn't expect this

17:54:28 <pfps> alanr: review content (correctness, wording) but consider presentation as well

Alan Ruttenberg: review content (correctness, wording) but consider presentation as well

17:54:36 <pfps> bijan: fair enough

Bijan Parsia: fair enough

17:54:38 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:54:38 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:54:55 <pfps> alanr: Document Overview

Alan Ruttenberg: Document Overview

17:55:03 <pfps> alanr: appears to be decent shape

Alan Ruttenberg: appears to be decent shape

17:55:30 <pfps> alanr: need decision to publish as FPWD, some minor comments outstanding

Alan Ruttenberg: need decision to publish as FPWD, some minor comments outstanding

17:56:11 <pfps> sandro: i'm not aware of any blockers, some bibliography fixes, nothing major

Sandro Hawke: i'm not aware of any blockers, some bibliography fixes, nothing major

17:56:12 <alanr> ack cgolbrei

Alan Ruttenberg: ack cgolbrei

17:56:12 <ewallace> What about Venn diagram?

Evan Wallace: What about Venn diagram?

17:56:29 <pfps> christine: what is the version we should look at

Christine Golbreich: what is the version we should look at

17:56:36 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Document_Overview

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Document_Overview

17:56:39 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:56:39 <Zakim> bmotik was already muted, bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was already muted, bmotik

17:56:51 <msmith> I would like to see the sentence reference OWL Full Semantics removed before publish

Mike Smith: I would like to see the sentence reference OWL Full Semantics removed before publish

17:56:55 <pfps> sandro: the current Wiki page, as always

Sandro Hawke: the current Wiki page, as always

17:57:04 <bijan> oh...

Bijan Parsia: oh...

17:57:13 <bijan> Figure 1 contains GRDDL

Bijan Parsia: Figure 1 contains GRDDL

17:57:17 <pfps> christine: will roadmap be moved?

Christine Golbreich: will roadmap be moved?

17:57:17 <bijan> That's a bit controversial

Bijan Parsia: That's a bit controversial

17:57:33 <pfps> sandro: we should decide now

Sandro Hawke: we should decide now

17:57:37 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

17:57:40 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

17:57:40 <pfps> alanr: any blockers?

Alan Ruttenberg: any blockers?

17:57:41 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

17:58:03 <pfps> bijan: diagram has GRDDL but we are not completely resolved on this

Bijan Parsia: diagram has GRDDL but we are not completely resolved on this

17:58:03 <schneid> ok, to take out GRDDL for the moment

Michael Schneider: ok, to take out GRDDL for the moment

17:58:11 <pfps> sandro: question mark on GRDDL?

Sandro Hawke: question mark on GRDDL?

17:58:15 <pfps> bijan: would be OK

Bijan Parsia: would be OK

17:58:22 <alanr> prefer editorial note over "?"

Alan Ruttenberg: prefer editorial note over "?"

17:58:27 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:58:43 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:58:58 <pfps> msmith: what about OWL 2 Full?

Mike Smith: what about OWL 2 Full?

17:59:03 <pfps> sandro: forgot about that

Sandro Hawke: forgot about that

17:59:11 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

17:59:19 <alanr> ack msmith

Alan Ruttenberg: ack msmith

17:59:23 <pfps> ivan: what about the diagram?

Ivan Herman: what about the diagram?

17:59:50 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

17:59:55 <bijan> I suggest "EdNote: The exact nature of the GRDDL relation is still an open issue."

Bijan Parsia: I suggest "EdNote: The exact nature of the GRDDL relation is still an open issue."

18:00:26 <alanr> to resolve: roadmap placement, OWL 2 Full, alan's minor edits

Alan Ruttenberg: to resolve: roadmap placement, OWL 2 Full, alan's minor edits

18:00:49 <Zakim> + +39.047.101.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +39.047.101.aaee

18:01:11 <calvanese> zakim, aaee is me

Diego Calvanese: zakim, aaee is me

18:01:11 <Zakim> +calvanese; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +calvanese; got it

18:01:13 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

18:01:15 <pfps> ivan: what about names? OWL Full?

Ivan Herman: what about names? OWL Full?

18:01:24 <calvanese> zakim, mute me

Diego Calvanese: zakim, mute me

18:01:24 <Zakim> calvanese should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: calvanese should now be muted

18:01:27 <alanr> "This semantics for OWL 2 Ontologies is sometimes called the “OWL 2 Full” semantics and “OWL 2 Full” is also used to refer to the entire OWL 2 language, particularly when expressed as RDF graphs."

Alan Ruttenberg: "This semantics for OWL 2 Ontologies is sometimes called the “OWL 2 Full” semantics and “OWL 2 Full” is also used to refer to the entire OWL 2 language, particularly when expressed as RDF graphs."

18:01:28 <pfps> sandro: only thing about OWL 2 Full is in semantics section

Sandro Hawke: only thing about OWL 2 Full is in semantics section

18:02:06 <pfps> ivan: its a FPWD so details don't matter too much

Ivan Herman: its a FPWD so details don't matter too much

18:02:09 <sandro> agreed -- we'll adopt msmith's proposal

Sandro Hawke: agreed -- we'll adopt msmith's proposal

18:02:16 <alanr> ack cgolbrei

Alan Ruttenberg: ack cgolbrei

18:02:31 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:02:41 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:02:46 <pfps> christine: need to consider longer

Christine Golbreich: need to consider longer

18:03:01 <pfps> alanr: we already extended the decision

Alan Ruttenberg: we already extended the decision

18:03:12 <pfps> christine: lots of discussion has happened

Christine Golbreich: lots of discussion has happened

18:03:28 <alanr> ack sandro

Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro

18:03:37 <cgolbrei> why bijan laugh?

Christine Golbreich: why bijan laugh?

18:03:52 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

18:03:56 <pfps> sandro: it will take a couple of days to get out the door, so we do have a bit of time to wait for objections

Sandro Hawke: it will take a couple of days to get out the door, so we do have a bit of time to wait for objections

18:03:59 <cgolbrei> ah!

Christine Golbreich: ah!

18:04:09 <JeffP> Sorry for the late

Jeff Pan: Sorry for the late

18:04:18 <cgolbrei> q

Christine Golbreich: q

18:04:18 <Zakim> + +0122427aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0122427aaff

18:04:31 <alanr> ack schneid

Alan Ruttenberg: ack schneid

18:04:33 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:04:33 <Zakim> schneid was not muted, schneid

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid was not muted, schneid

18:04:33 <pfps> ivan: this is only a FPWD, so it doesn't have to be near perfect

Ivan Herman: this is only a FPWD, so it doesn't have to be near perfect

18:04:48 <pfps> michael: OWL 2 Full?

Michael Schneider: OWL 2 Full?

18:04:50 <pfps> q+

q+

18:05:04 <pfps> q-

q-

18:05:13 <pfps> michael: agree to removing

Michael Schneider: agree to removing

18:05:21 <cgolbrei> is there no risk of reaction even on a FPWD

Christine Golbreich: is there no risk of reaction even on a FPWD

18:05:27 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:05:27 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:05:32 <pfps> q+

q+

18:05:33 <bijan> I do!

Bijan Parsia: I do!

18:05:37 <pfps> pfps: me too

Peter Patel-Schneider: me too

18:05:40 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

18:05:56 <bijan> I totally agree with what Peter just said

Bijan Parsia: I totally agree with what Peter just said

18:06:08 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

18:06:10 <pfps> pfps: roadmap first is cart before the horse

Peter Patel-Schneider: roadmap first is cart before the horse

18:06:19 <schneid> +1 to peter, we have the diagram at the beginning, that's perfectly fine

Michael Schneider: +1 to peter, we have the diagram at the beginning, that's perfectly fine

18:06:31 <cgolbrei> usualy Table of Contents is first

Christine Golbreich: usualy Table of Contents is first

18:06:37 <pfps> bijan: document roadmap is not user friendly at the beginning

Bijan Parsia: document roadmap is not user friendly at the beginning

18:06:37 <ivan> +1 to peter and bijan

Ivan Herman: +1 to peter and bijan

18:06:41 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:06:48 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:07:00 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:07:02 <pfps> sandro: roadmap is like the ToC so it should be first

Sandro Hawke: roadmap is like the ToC so it should be first

18:07:05 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

18:07:18 <cgolbrei> present TOC is not explicit

Christine Golbreich: present TOC is not explicit

18:07:26 <pfps> bijan: roadmap is not like a ToC - it is like a ... roadmap!

Bijan Parsia: roadmap is not like a ToC - it is like a ... roadmap!

18:07:39 <sandro> rofl

Sandro Hawke: rofl

18:07:39 <pfps> sandro: I hate those (but I don't hate the roadmap)

Sandro Hawke: I hate those (but I don't hate the roadmap)

18:07:44 <schneid> it's not a TOC, it's a list of references

Michael Schneider: it's not a TOC, it's a list of references

18:07:54 <alanr> straw poll: I like the roadmap at the top

Alan Ruttenberg: straw poll: I like the roadmap at the top

18:07:57 <pfps> pfps: -1

Peter Patel-Schneider: -1

18:07:57 <Achille> +0.5

Achille Fokoue: +0.5

18:07:58 <schneid> -1

Michael Schneider: -1

18:07:59 <baojie> 0

Jie Bao: 0

18:07:59 <cgolbrei> +1

Christine Golbreich: +1

18:08:00 <bijan> -1

Bijan Parsia: -1

18:08:01 <ewallace> 0

Evan Wallace: 0

18:08:01 <alanr> 0

Alan Ruttenberg: 0

18:08:01 <sandro> 0

Sandro Hawke: 0

18:08:04 <Zhe> 0

Zhe Wu: 0

18:08:04 <ivan> -1

Ivan Herman: -1

18:08:04 <JeffP> 0

Jeff Pan: 0

18:08:05 <bcuencagrau> 0

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 0

18:08:09 <msmith> 0

Mike Smith: 0

18:08:09 <zimmer> 0.5

Antoine Zimmermann: 0.5

18:08:25 <cgolbrei> should we add 0.5 ?

Christine Golbreich: should we add 0.5 ?

18:08:47 <MarkusK_> -0

Markus Krötzsch: -0

18:08:53 <sandro> alan: keep in its current place in this draft; maybe revisit.

Alan Ruttenberg: keep in its current place in this draft; maybe revisit. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

18:08:53 <pfps> alanr: keep roadmap were it is (for now)

Alan Ruttenberg: keep roadmap were it is (for now)

18:09:06 <pfps> alanr: changes about QL and RL

Alan Ruttenberg: changes about QL and RL

18:09:09 <bijan> I'll also note that the roadmap is *not* a table of contents *for this document*.

Bijan Parsia: I'll also note that the roadmap is *not* a table of contents *for this document*.

18:09:12 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:09:18 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

18:09:20 <pfps> pfps: QL and RL OK by me

Peter Patel-Schneider: QL and RL OK by me

18:09:54 <bijan> Who do we direct comments to?

Bijan Parsia: Who do we direct comments to?

18:09:57 <bijan> "OWL 2 adds new functionality with respect to OWL 1. Some of the new features are syntactic sugar (e.g., disjoint union of classes) while others offer new reasoning capabilities, including:"

Bijan Parsia: "OWL 2 adds new functionality with respect to OWL 1. Some of the new features are syntactic sugar (e.g., disjoint union of classes) while others offer new reasoning capabilities, including:"

18:10:03 <pfps> alanr: sandro start the process

Alan Ruttenberg: sandro start the process

18:10:09 <bijan> The features don't add reasoning capabilities, but expressivity

Bijan Parsia: The features don't add reasoning capabilities, but expressivity

18:10:17 <bijan> Can we have de facto editors?

Bijan Parsia: Can we have de facto editors?

18:10:23 <bijan> i.e., "pester victims"

Bijan Parsia: i.e., "pester victims"

18:10:28 <pfps> sandro: agreed that this is a WG document

Sandro Hawke: agreed that this is a WG document

18:10:38 <pfps> sandro: I'm the victim this week

Sandro Hawke: I'm the victim this week

18:10:11 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Document_Overview as a FPWD, with changes agreed to in this meeting, and give folks 24 hours to object in case there's something critical they missed.

PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Document_Overview as a FPWD, with changes agreed to in this meeting, and give folks 24 hours to object in case there's something critical they missed.

18:10:53 <pfps> pfps: +1 ALU

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU

18:10:55 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

18:10:57 <alanr> +1 (Science Commons)

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 (Science Commons)

18:11:01 <sandro> +1 (W3C)

Sandro Hawke: +1 (W3C)

18:11:02 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

18:11:03 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

18:11:05 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

18:11:05 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1

18:11:14 <Achille> +0

Achille Fokoue: +0

18:11:14 <schneid> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

18:11:17 <JeffP> 0

Jeff Pan: 0

18:11:34 <pfps> Resolved:  Publish http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Document_Overview as a FPWD, with changes agreed to in this meeting, and give folks 24 hours to object in case there's something critical they missed.

RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Document_Overview as a FPWD, with changes agreed to in this meeting, and give folks 24 hours to object in case there's something critical they missed.

18:12:21 <pfps> alanr: NF&R - is it ready for publication (not LC) in April

Alan Ruttenberg: NF&R - is it ready for publication (not LC) in April

18:12:30 <ewallace> When did we agree that UF docs wouldn't go to last call?

Evan Wallace: When did we agree that UF docs wouldn't go to last call?

18:12:35 <alanr> at the f2f

Alan Ruttenberg: at the f2f

18:12:42 <alanr> (I hope)

Alan Ruttenberg: (I hope)

18:13:04 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:13:33 <sandro> (Yikes, RRSAgent isn't here.    Fortunately, I have an xchatlog, which we can use.....    I'll do that Peter.)

Sandro Hawke: (Yikes, RRSAgent isn't here. Fortunately, I have an xchatlog, which we can use..... I'll do that Peter.)

18:13:56 <ewallace> Not that I heard or saw in minutes. But don't want to disrupt the meeting.

Evan Wallace: Not that I heard or saw in minutes. But don't want to disrupt the meeting.

18:13:56 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:13:56 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

18:13:56 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

18:13:58 <pfps> christine: nearly finished

Christine Golbreich: nearly finished

18:14:16 <pfps> bijan: outstanding comment from about one use case

Bijan Parsia: outstanding comment from about one use case

18:14:25 <pfps> alanr: please send a note to me

Alan Ruttenberg: please send a note to me

18:14:36 <ewallace> I think that Bijan's comment is on a use case table

Evan Wallace: I think that Bijan's comment is on a use case table

18:15:37 <pfps> alanr: we need to take bijan at his word as to whether his comment was addressed

Alan Ruttenberg: we need to take bijan at his word as to whether his comment was addressed

18:15:50 <pfps> bijan: I haven't heard anything

Bijan Parsia: I haven't heard anything

18:16:28 <pfps> christine: reviewers for NF&R?

Christine Golbreich: reviewers for NF&R?

18:16:49 <pfps> alanr: for next meeting

Alan Ruttenberg: for next meeting

18:17:02 <pfps> alanr: Manchester syntax

Alan Ruttenberg: Manchester syntax

18:17:23 <pfps> alanr: I have objected to removal of editorial notes and not addressing issue 146

Alan Ruttenberg: I have objected to removal of editorial notes and not addressing ISSUE-146

18:17:25 <pfps> q+

q+

18:17:29 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

18:17:45 <pfps> pfps: objections have to be public

Peter Patel-Schneider: objections have to be public

18:17:56 <pfps> alanr: i object now

Alan Ruttenberg: i object now

18:18:20 <pfps> pfps: I object to pocket vetos

Peter Patel-Schneider: I object to pocket vetos

18:18:27 <pfps> alanr: I need to wait for Ian

Alan Ruttenberg: I need to wait for Ian

18:18:37 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:18:37 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

18:18:45 <pfps> alanr: Data Range Extensions

Alan Ruttenberg: Data Range Extensions

18:19:16 <pfps> bijan: delayed because of XML syntax - when is next round

Bijan Parsia: delayed because of XML syntax - when is next round

18:19:30 <pfps> alanr: finish by end of month - publlish for mid-April

Alan Ruttenberg: finish by end of month - publlish for mid-April

18:19:40 <pfps> bijan: sounds doable

Bijan Parsia: sounds doable

18:19:51 <pfps> bijan: this is a note

Bijan Parsia: this is a note

18:19:58 <pfps> alanr: but we want it to be good

Alan Ruttenberg: but we want it to be good

18:20:07 <pfps> bijan: doesn't need to be LC (ever)

Bijan Parsia: doesn't need to be LC (ever)

18:20:13 <pfps> sandro: right

Sandro Hawke: right

18:20:32 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:20:38 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

18:20:44 <pfps> sandro: roadmap points to it, so it would be good to have a FPWD

Sandro Hawke: roadmap points to it, so it would be good to have a FPWD

18:20:53 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:20:54 <pfps> bijan: any problem with current status as FPWD

Bijan Parsia: any problem with current status as FPWD

18:20:58 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

18:21:13 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:21:27 <pfps> alanr: want a full thing before FPWD

Alan Ruttenberg: want a full thing before FPWD

18:21:28 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr

18:21:33 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

18:22:00 <pfps> ivan: no problem because it will be a note

Ivan Herman: no problem because it will be a note

18:22:07 <pfps> ivan: at CR time we want a good version

Ivan Herman: at CR time we want a good version

18:22:18 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:22:42 <pfps> ivan: roadmap should state note status of notes

Ivan Herman: roadmap should state note status of notes

18:23:04 <pfps> sandro: this is intentional

Sandro Hawke: this is intentional

18:23:31 <alanr> q+ alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr

18:23:34 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

18:24:10 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr

18:24:13 <pfps> bijan: agree with Ivan - should be good, but timeline isn't so tight - FPWD can be a bit sketchy

Bijan Parsia: agree with Ivan - should be good, but timeline isn't so tight - FPWD can be a bit sketchy

18:24:45 <pfps> alanr: want at least something about RDF mapping and one example for FPWD

Alan Ruttenberg: want at least something about RDF mapping and one example for FPWD

18:24:58 <pfps> bijan: OK, can be done soon

Bijan Parsia: OK, can be done soon

18:25:09 <pfps> alanr: Document Overview (again)

Alan Ruttenberg: Document Overview (again)

18:25:39 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:25:39 <pfps> ivan: just want to make situation clear

Ivan Herman: just want to make situation clear

18:25:50 <bijan> I'd prefer being ambiguous

Bijan Parsia: I'd prefer being ambiguous

18:25:56 <pfps> sandro: I'm fine as long as it's not *IN YOUR FACE*

Sandro Hawke: I'm fine as long as it's not *IN YOUR FACE*

18:26:03 <bijan> But I'm not hard for it

Bijan Parsia: But I'm not hard for it

18:26:08 <schneid> q-

Michael Schneider: q-

18:26:21 <bijan> yep

Bijan Parsia: yep

18:26:26 <pfps> alanr: OK, lets do it

Alan Ruttenberg: OK, lets do it

18:26:53 <schneid> RDF-Based?

Michael Schneider: RDF-Based?

18:26:57 <pfps> Topic: LC Comments

4. LC Comments

18:27:06 <ivan> i think it is too short

Ivan Herman: i think it is too short

18:27:11 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:27:18 <pfps> alanr: can we mass-approve quick approval ones

Alan Ruttenberg: can we mass-approve quick approval ones

18:27:18 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:27:18 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

18:27:20 <alanr> ack schneid

Alan Ruttenberg: ack schneid

18:27:50 <ivan> and there is a discussion thread there...

Ivan Herman: and there is a discussion thread there...

18:28:31 <pfps> schneid: not 28

Michael Schneider: not 28

18:28:40 <ivan> and 48 and 58

Ivan Herman: and 48 and 58

18:29:03 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:29:04 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille

18:29:07 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:29:07 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:29:12 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:29:12 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:29:21 <pfps> alanr: we are out of time

Alan Ruttenberg: we are out of time

18:29:25 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:29:28 <pfps> alanr: we will bring all this up next week

Alan Ruttenberg: we will bring all this up next week

18:29:30 <alanr> ack bmotik

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik

18:30:03 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe

18:30:04 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

18:30:04 <Zakim> - +0122427aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: - +0122427aaff

18:30:08 <Ratnesh> bye

Ratnesh Sahay: bye

18:30:10 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith

18:30:11 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

18:30:11 <Zakim> -alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr

18:30:15 <Zakim> -baojie

Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie

18:30:15 <Zakim> -MarkusK_

Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK_

18:30:15 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

18:30:16 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

18:30:16 <Zakim> -calvanese

Zakim IRC Bot: -calvanese

18:30:24 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau

Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau

18:31:35 <Zakim> -schneid

Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid

18:32:08 <Zakim> -zimmer

Zakim IRC Bot: -zimmer



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This revision (#1) generated 2009-03-11 19:27:06 UTC by 'ppatelsc', comments: 'Initial minutes from scribe'