OWL Working Group

Minutes of 11 February 2009

Present
Peter Patel-Schneider Markus Krötzsch Ian Horrocks Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Ivan Herman Evan Wallace Michael Schneider Uli Sattler Christine Golbreich Mike Smith Zhe Wu Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke
Scribe
Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case. We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around. link
Topics
00:00:00 <scribenick> PRESENT: Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan, bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, Michael Schneider (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe, Achille, Bernardo, Sandro
17:58:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-owl-irc

17:59:13 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to:  http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.02.11/Agenda

Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.02.11/Agenda

17:59:25 <IanH> Zakim, this will be owlwg

Ian Horrocks: Zakim, this will be owlwg

17:59:25 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute

17:59:40 <IanH> ScribeNick: bijan

(Scribe set to Bijan Parsia)

17:59:49 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started

17:59:53 <bijan> I'm wondering if someone might take over for me scribing

I'm wondering if someone might take over for me scribing

17:59:56 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider

18:00:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

18:00:06 <bijan> I've got a rather nasty headache which is making it hard to concentrate

I've got a rather nasty headache which is making it hard to concentrate

18:00:29 <Zakim> +bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik

18:00:30 <IanH> Do we have a volunteer to take over from Bijan?

Ian Horrocks: Do we have a volunteer to take over from Bijan?

18:00:38 <bijan> I'll do it if no one volunteers of course

I'll do it if no one volunteers of course

18:01:07 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

18:01:21 <Zakim> +IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH

18:01:23 <bmotik> Zakim, this will be owl

Boris Motik: Zakim, this will be owl

18:01:23 <Zakim> ok, bmotik, I see SW_OWL()1:00PM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, bmotik, I see SW_OWL()1:00PM already started

18:01:29 <Zakim> +??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18

18:01:33 <Zakim> +bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik

18:01:36 <bijan> zakim, ??p18 is me

zakim, ??p18 is me

18:01:36 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it

18:01:37 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:01:38 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:01:40 <bijan> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me

18:01:40 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:01:41 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public

Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public

18:01:54 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:01:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted)

18:01:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bcuencagrau, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bcuencagrau, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace

18:01:59 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

18:01:59 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

18:02:01 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

18:02:04 <Zakim> +bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a

18:02:26 <IanH> CAN SOMEONE TAKE OVER SCRIBING -- Bijan is unwell

Ian Horrocks: CAN SOMEONE TAKE OVER SCRIBING -- Bijan is unwell

18:02:29 <bijan> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

18:02:30 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

18:02:40 <Zakim> -bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik.a

18:02:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

18:02:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

zakim, unmute me

18:02:51 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

18:03:00 <schneid> zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, [IPcaller] is me

18:03:00 <Zakim> +schneid; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it

18:03:04 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:03:04 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:03:06 <Zakim> +??P10

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10

18:03:16 <bijan> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me

18:03:16 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:03:34 <Christine> zakim, ??P10 is christine

Christine Golbreich: zakim, ??P10 is christine

18:03:34 <Zakim> +christine; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +christine; got it

18:03:42 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

18:03:49 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:03:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), christine, ??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), christine, ??P11

18:03:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bcuencagrau, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bcuencagrau, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace

18:03:53 <uli> zakim, ??P11 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P11 is me

18:03:54 <Zakim> -christine

Zakim IRC Bot: -christine

18:03:55 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it

18:04:01 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

18:04:04 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

18:04:13 <Zakim> +bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a

18:04:46 <Zakim> -bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik.a

18:04:51 <Zakim> +??P10

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10

18:04:55 <uli> i said i'd volunteer if need be

Uli Sattler: i said i'd volunteer if need be

18:05:03 <Christine> zakim, ??P10 is christine

Christine Golbreich: zakim, ??P10 is christine

18:05:03 <Zakim> +christine; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +christine; got it

18:05:09 <Zakim> +msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith

18:05:24 <uli> thanks, Ivan!

Uli Sattler: thanks, Ivan!

18:05:30 <ivan> scribenick: ivan

(Scribe set to Ivan Herman)

18:05:41 <pfps> and he's British so no worries about washing it off

Peter Patel-Schneider: and he's British so no worries about washing it off

18:05:45 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aaaa

18:05:57 <Zhe> zakim,  +1.603.897.aaaa is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aaaa is me

18:05:57 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it

18:05:58 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:05:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe

18:06:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see msmith, Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see msmith, Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace

18:06:10 <ivan> Topic: roll call

2. roll call

18:06:14 <bijan> scribe: ivan
18:06:15 <ivan> ian: agenda amendement

Ian Horrocks: agenda amendement

18:06:20 <pfps> look fine by me

Peter Patel-Schneider: look fine by me

18:06:25 <ivan> ian: propose to accept previous minutes

Ian Horrocks: propose to accept previous minutes

18:06:28 <ivan> peter: fine

Peter Patel-Schneider: fine

18:06:39 <ivan> ian: resolve to accept the minutes

Ian Horrocks: resolve to accept the minutes

18:06:44 <ivan> topic: action items

3. action items

18:06:55 <ivan> ian: not spend time on the pending actions

Ian Horrocks: not spend time on the pending actions

18:07:02 <ivan> ian: those four should go on...

Ian Horrocks: those four should go on...

18:07:08 <ivan> ian: due and overdue action

Ian Horrocks: due and overdue action

18:07:13 <bijan> That was closed

Bijan Parsia: That was closed

18:07:14 <pfps> +q

Peter Patel-Schneider: +q

18:07:16 <bijan> He has done it

Bijan Parsia: He has done it

18:07:18 <ivan> ... the one on alan, I believe that is gone

... the one on alan, I believe that is gone

18:07:19 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

18:07:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:07:47 <ivan> action 264: another one on alan

ACTION-264: another one on alan

18:07:47 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 264

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 264

18:07:57 <ivan> ... he sent a mail that he would get on that soon,

... he sent a mail that he would get on that soon,

18:07:59 <ewallace> 269 has been mute.

Evan Wallace: 269 has been mute.

18:08:00 <ivan> ... leave it open

... leave it open

18:08:05 <bijan> That was mooted

Bijan Parsia: That was mooted

18:08:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:08:08 <ivan> action 269 is also on alan

ACTION-269 is also on alan

18:08:09 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 269

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 269

18:08:13 <bijan> Yes

Bijan Parsia: Yes

18:08:17 <Christine> yes it's moote

Christine Golbreich: yes it's moote

18:08:18 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:08:18 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

18:08:33 <ewallace> s/mute/moot/

Evan Wallace: s/mute/moot/

18:08:33 <ivan> ewallace: that was closed last time, alan did not close it

Evan Wallace: that was closed last time, alan did not close it

18:08:43 <ivan> ian: number 278

Ian Horrocks: number 278

18:08:47 <ivan> ... in Jie

... in Jie

18:08:52 <Zakim> +bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a

18:08:54 <ivan> ... but he is not here

... but he is not here

18:09:02 <bernardo> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me

18:09:02 <Zakim> sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

18:09:04 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:09:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan, bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe, bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan, bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe, bmotik.a

18:09:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, bernardo, msmith, Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, bernardo, msmith, Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace

18:09:16 <ivan> bijan: he sent a mail he set it as a pending review

Bijan Parsia: he sent a mail he set it as a pending review

18:09:31 <ivan> ian: next one 279 on bijan

Ian Horrocks: next one 279 on bijan

18:09:33 <bernardo> for some reason Zakim is identifying me as bmotik.a no matter what I do

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: for some reason Zakim is identifying me as bmotik.a no matter what I do

18:09:44 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

18:09:48 <ivan> bijan: the unicode site was down, i will do it tomorrow

Bijan Parsia: the unicode site was down, i will do it tomorrow

18:10:00 <ivan> Topic: f2f

4. f2f

18:10:08 <Achille> Zakim, ibm is me

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, ibm is me

18:10:08 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it

18:10:08 <ivan> ian: there is an agenda available

Ian Horrocks: there is an agenda available

18:10:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:10:12 <pfps> agenda looks fine (and packed)

Peter Patel-Schneider: agenda looks fine (and packed)

18:10:13 <ivan> ... comments?

... comments?

18:10:31 <ivan> topic: announcements on xsd 1.1. being on last call

5. announcements on xsd 1.1. being on last call

18:10:37 <ivan> ian: they are looking for comments

Ian Horrocks: they are looking for comments

18:10:44 <ivan> ... we probably should make some review on that

... we probably should make some review on that

18:10:44 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

18:10:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:10:51 <ivan> ... even if we like it

... even if we like it

18:10:53 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

18:11:03 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

18:11:03 <ivan> pfps: i sent a message to the wg, i suggest they done the right thing

Peter Patel-Schneider: i sent a message to the wg, i suggest they done the right thing

18:11:08 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:11:37 <ivan> ... there are not many changes, but the ones we wanted are correct

... there are not many changes, but the ones we wanted are correct

18:11:44 <ivan> ian: did you suggest a response?

Ian Horrocks: did you suggest a response?

18:11:48 <msmith> this is the new builtin type for us http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#dateTimeStamp

Mike Smith: this is the new builtin type for us http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#dateTimeStamp

18:11:58 <bijan> It looks like ACTION-272 is pending review in spite of its tracker status

Bijan Parsia: It looks like ACTION-272 is pending review in spite of its tracker status

18:12:01 <ivan> ... let us look at the response off line and next week we can decide

... let us look at the response off line and next week we can decide

18:12:12 <bijan>  See: <http://www.w3.org/mid/b0ed1d660902091219r5b80f5a6mbaede7cd7faf7e59@mail.gmail.com>

Bijan Parsia: See: &lt;http://www.w3.org/mid/b0ed1d660902091219r5b80f5a6mbaede7cd7faf7e59@mail.gmail.com&gt;

18:12:14 <ivan> (that I cannot scribe)

(that I cannot scribe)

18:12:41 <ivan> pfps: the changes take care of our things, we can now point at the xml schema, and remove our own stuff

Peter Patel-Schneider: the changes take care of our things, we can now point at the xml schema, and remove our own stuff

18:12:53 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

18:12:57 <ivan> IanH: we have to make this comment after the f2f, we have time

Ian Horrocks: we have to make this comment after the f2f, we have time

18:13:09 <ewallace> Can we at least give a nod to Peter's proposed response

Evan Wallace: Can we at least give a nod to Peter's proposed response

18:13:28 <ivan> action pfps: to send out a respoinse after the f2f

action pfps: to send out a respoinse after the f2f

18:13:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-281 - Send out a respoinse after the f2f [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-02-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-281 - Send out a respoinse after the f2f [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-02-18].

18:13:32 <sandro> q+ to ask about wording on disjointness of value spaces

Sandro Hawke: q+ to ask about wording on disjointness of value spaces

18:13:41 <ivan> s/respoinse/response/

s/respoinse/response/

18:13:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:13:55 <IanH> ack sandro

Ian Horrocks: ack sandro

18:13:55 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask about wording on disjointness of value spaces

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to ask about wording on disjointness of value spaces

18:14:09 <ivan> sandro: did peter look at the way on the disjointness of value spaces, whether it is muddy

Sandro Hawke: did peter look at the way on the disjointness of value spaces, whether it is muddy

18:14:15 <ewallace> 1.1

Evan Wallace: 1.1

18:14:21 <ivan> pfps: there is no change vs the previous version

Peter Patel-Schneider: there is no change vs the previous version

18:14:53 <ivan> pfps: they are quite clear that as far as datastructuring is concerned...

Peter Patel-Schneider: they are quite clear that as far as datastructuring is concerned...

18:15:36 <ivan> sandro: do we have any useful feedback on our issues and the answer is no

Sandro Hawke: do we have any useful feedback on our issues and the answer is no

18:15:47 <sandro> (the answer from Peter, that is.)

Sandro Hawke: (the answer from Peter, that is.)

18:16:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:08 <pfps> in the current XML LC, "2.0"^^xsd:decimal and "2.0"^^xsd:float are distinct data structures, and thus not equal

Peter Patel-Schneider: in the current XML LC, "2.0"^^xsd:decimal and "2.0"^^xsd:float are distinct data structures, and thus not equal

18:16:10 <ivan> topic: test cases

6. test cases

18:16:27 <ivan> IanH: it is fairly important

Ian Horrocks: it is fairly important

18:16:34 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:16:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:45 <pfps> the XML schema document says that applications can choose to use other equalities, for example to make the about 2.0's equal

Peter Patel-Schneider: the XML schema document says that applications can choose to use other equalities, for example to make the about 2.0's equal

18:16:45 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

18:16:49 <ivan> ... there was a discussioni on email that many owl 1 cases are brokent because they lack the ontology header

... there was a discussioni on email that many owl 1 cases are brokent because they lack the ontology header

18:16:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:54 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

18:17:16 <ivan> bijan: the old thing was incorrect, those were labelled as dl and they were in fact not

Bijan Parsia: the old thing was incorrect, those were labelled as dl and they were in fact not

18:17:30 <ivan> ... because they did not have the header

... because they did not have the header

18:17:31 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:17:34 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:17:44 <ivan> msmith: there are about 130 test cases like this

Mike Smith: there are about 130 test cases like this

18:17:53 <ivan> ... i would modify these adding a header

... i would modify these adding a header

18:18:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:18:11 <ivan> ... or just say these are not dl but it would be better to add the headers

... or just say these are not dl but it would be better to add the headers

18:18:26 <schneid> wasn't it allowed to have a bnode as the subject of the header? would simplify things

Michael Schneider: wasn't it allowed to have a bnode as the subject of the header? would simplify things

18:18:28 <ivan> bijan: maybe we should post an errata that the test cases were incorrect

Bijan Parsia: maybe we should post an errata that the test cases were incorrect

18:18:29 <msmith> action msmith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header

Mike Smith: action msmith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header

18:18:29 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith

18:18:32 <ivan> q+

q+

18:18:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:18:41 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:18:44 <pfps> in OWL 1, the translation to triples includes an rdf:type owl:Ontology triple

Peter Patel-Schneider: in OWL 1, the translation to triples includes an rdf:type owl:Ontology triple

18:18:55 <msmith> action michaelsm: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header

Mike Smith: action michaelsm: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header

18:18:55 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - michaelsm

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - michaelsm

18:19:04 <pfps> +1 to Bijan

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to Bijan

18:19:09 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:19:10 <MarkusK_> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

18:19:11 <msmith> action mismith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header

Mike Smith: action mismith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header

18:19:11 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - mismith

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - mismith

18:19:21 <pfps> +1 to issue an Errata (formally)

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to issue an Errata (formally)

18:19:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:20:00 <sandro> action: smith: testing

ACTION: smith: testing

18:20:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-282 - Testing [on Michael Smith - due 2009-02-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-282 - Testing [on Michael Smith - due 2009-02-18].

18:20:08 <msmith> sure

Mike Smith: sure

18:20:18 <sandro> action-282 closed

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-282 closed

18:20:18 <trackbot> ACTION-282 Testing closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-282 Testing closed

18:20:49 <ivan> topic: look at last call comments

7. look at last call comments

18:21:03 <msmith> action smith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header and create content for errata on webont tests

Mike Smith: action smith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header and create content for errata on webont tests

18:21:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-283 - Add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header and create content for errata on webont tests [on Michael Smith - due 2009-02-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-283 - Add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header and create content for errata on webont tests [on Michael Smith - due 2009-02-18].

18:21:04 <ivan> IanH: i sent a mail on dealing this is a bit like we dealt with actions

Ian Horrocks: i sent a mail on dealing this is a bit like we dealt with actions

18:21:31 <ivan> ... we would have responses ready to send, and there is an assumption that they are fine unless somebody complains

... we would have responses ready to send, and there is an assumption that they are fine unless somebody complains

18:21:36 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:21:42 <Christine> +q

Christine Golbreich: +q

18:21:44 <ivan> IanH: is that o.k. with this?

Ian Horrocks: is that o.k. with this?

18:21:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:21:52 <IanH> ack Christine

Ian Horrocks: ack Christine

18:22:27 <ivan> Christine: i want to say i disagree with one sentence, we have higher priorities this time, so I will make proposals later on the features doucment

Christine Golbreich: i want to say i disagree with one sentence, we have higher priorities this time, so I will make proposals later on the features doucment

18:22:50 <ivan> IanH: yes, we should get the lc comments done first

Ian Horrocks: yes, we should get the lc comments done first

18:23:09 <ivan> IanH: jh1 is accepted and can go

Ian Horrocks: jh1 is accepted and can go

18:23:15 <bijan> Jump to resolved

Bijan Parsia: Jump to resolved

18:23:50 <ivan> action bijan: send a response to jh1 comment

action bijan: send a response to jh1 comment

18:23:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-284 - Send a response to jh1 comment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-284 - Send a response to jh1 comment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].

18:24:13 <schneid> why doesn't the chair just write "RESOLVED: ..." for an LC comment put on the road?

Michael Schneider: why doesn't the chair just write "RESOLVED: ..." for an LC comment put on the road?

18:24:20 <ivan> IanH: next bunch are those that require more discussion

Ian Horrocks: next bunch are those that require more discussion

18:24:40 <ivan> bijan: i think the unicode one is almost finished

Bijan Parsia: i think the unicode one is almost finished

18:24:52 <ivan> ... my understanding is that as soon as it is finished i can send it

... my understanding is that as soon as it is finished i can send it

18:25:11 <ivan> ian: anyone opposing to md1 to be sent?

Ian Horrocks: anyone opposing to md1 to be sent?

18:25:17 <schneid> (ok, creating an ACTION is even better)

Michael Schneider: (ok, creating an ACTION is even better)

18:25:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:25:29 <ivan> action bijan: send out response to md1 comment

action bijan: send out response to md1 comment

18:25:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-285 - Send out response to md1 comment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-285 - Send out response to md1 comment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].

18:25:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:25:51 <ivan> IanH: vh4

Ian Horrocks: vh4

18:25:58 <IanH> FH4

Ian Horrocks: FH4

18:26:24 <ivan> IanH: this is addressing with lot of discussion on how we deal with anonymous individuals

Ian Horrocks: this is addressing with lot of discussion on how we deal with anonymous individuals

18:26:30 <ivan> ... he did not like the new way

... he did not like the new way

18:26:32 <ivan> q+

q+

18:26:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:26:41 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:27:24 <bijan> ivan: Bijan's comment is great, but knowing Frank, it's difficult for me to believe that he'd make such a silly comment. So I agreed that I'd talk to Frank.

Ivan Herman: Bijan's comment is great, but knowing Frank, it's difficult for me to believe that he'd make such a silly comment. So I agreed that I'd talk to Frank. [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ]

18:27:30 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:27:33 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:27:56 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

18:28:08 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:28:17 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

18:28:30 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:28:30 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

18:28:33 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

18:28:46 <ivan> schneid: what ivan wants to do can also be done by sending it out

Michael Schneider: what ivan wants to do can also be done by sending it out

18:29:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:29:14 <ivan> IanH: as he ivan will be there tomorrow why not trying to kill it as one iteration

Ian Horrocks: as he ivan will be there tomorrow why not trying to kill it as one iteration

18:29:14 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:29:14 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:29:15 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:29:18 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:29:50 <ivan> msmith: even if it is clarified, there is probably value to consider the answer the way bijan wrote it because others may have misunderstood it the same way

Mike Smith: even if it is clarified, there is probably value to consider the answer the way bijan wrote it because others may have misunderstood it the same way

18:29:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:30:00 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:30:02 <ivan> IanH: should we have a better explanation in the document

Ian Horrocks: should we have a better explanation in the document

18:30:03 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:30:03 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

18:30:05 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

18:30:24 <ivan> bijan: what level of granularity do we want to describe thigns

Bijan Parsia: what level of granularity do we want to describe thigns

18:30:27 <Christine> +q

Christine Golbreich: +q

18:30:29 <schneid> schneid: as an alternative to first asking Frank, we can send the mail out and wait for Franks answer; this matches the official process

Michael Schneider: as an alternative to first asking Frank, we can send the mail out and wait for Franks answer; this matches the official process [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

18:30:32 <ivan> ... maybe in the new features is the right place

... maybe in the new features is the right place

18:30:42 <ivan> ... we have no other place to put it now

... we have no other place to put it now

18:31:01 <ivan> ... general design decisions are not documented yet

... general design decisions are not documented yet

18:31:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:31:10 <ivan> ... do we really want to document things on that level?

... do we really want to document things on that level?

18:31:14 <ivan> q+

q+

18:31:43 <ivan> Christine: bijan said what i would propose, there are general design decisions that are not documented

Christine Golbreich: bijan said what i would propose, there are general design decisions that are not documented

18:31:58 <IanH> ack Christine

Ian Horrocks: ack Christine

18:32:04 <ivan> ... before the first draft publications i discussed with some members

... before the first draft publications i discussed with some members

18:32:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:32:17 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:32:32 <Christine> +q

Christine Golbreich: +q

18:32:47 <bijan> But this isn't a difference between OWL 1 and OWL 2

Bijan Parsia: But this isn't a difference between OWL 1 and OWL 2

18:32:54 <bijan> but in OWL 1's *spec* and OWL 2's spec!

Bijan Parsia: but in OWL 1's *spec* and OWL 2's spec!

18:33:05 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:33:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:33:53 <IanH> ack Christine

Ian Horrocks: ack Christine

18:34:25 <ivan> Christine: we can do that in due time, we can list the general specific points, when we can know which one we want to document

Christine Golbreich: we can do that in due time, we can list the general specific points, when we can know which one we want to document

18:34:31 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

18:35:02 <ivan> bijan: we used to have an appendix on similar things but we removed it for some person's objection...

Bijan Parsia: we used to have an appendix on similar things but we removed it for some person's objection...

18:35:23 <ivan> IanH: we will have a section on the f2f on general documentation issues

Ian Horrocks: we will have a section on the f2f on general documentation issues

18:35:40 <ivan> IanH: i made a list of last call comments that require policy discussions

Ian Horrocks: i made a list of last call comments that require policy discussions

18:36:05 <ivan> ... first of those is that we were not very consistent on how we use the terms owl, owl full, owl dl, etc

... first of those is that we were not very consistent on how we use the terms owl, owl full, owl dl, etc

18:36:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:36:14 <bijan> I propose that we use OWL 2 for OWL DL.

Bijan Parsia: I propose that we use OWL 2 for OWL DL.

18:36:18 <ivan> ... there was a proposal sent round based on a discussion ivan and I had

... there was a proposal sent round based on a discussion ivan and I had

18:36:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:36:25 <ivan> ... anyone looked at that?

... anyone looked at that?

18:36:32 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

18:36:32 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:36:35 <ewallace> q+

Evan Wallace: q+

18:36:36 <ivan> ... if nobody wants to discuss it...

... if nobody wants to discuss it...

18:36:42 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

18:36:53 <ivan> bijan: insert all sorts of dl-s and full-s everywhere?

Bijan Parsia: insert all sorts of dl-s and full-s everywhere?

18:37:17 <ivan> IanH: not only, there is a section in the syntax document that list all the strings that are required on ontology structures

Ian Horrocks: not only, there is a section in the syntax document that list all the strings that are required on ontology structures

18:37:39 <ivan> ... we have to work on that part to make it clear to describe which strings you have to have owl dl

... we have to work on that part to make it clear to describe which strings you have to have owl dl

18:38:00 <ewallace> q-

Evan Wallace: q-

18:38:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:38:04 <ivan> ... we have to take a close look when we were really considering dl

... we have to take a close look when we were really considering dl

18:38:09 <ivan> q+

q+

18:38:18 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:38:30 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:38:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:38:40 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:38:40 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:38:43 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:38:58 <ivan> bmotik: at a highl level it looks good, the devil is in the details

Boris Motik: at a highl level it looks good, the devil is in the details

18:39:06 <ivan> ... doing it by email is rather difficult

... doing it by email is rather difficult

18:39:17 <ivan> ... i would do some slides for the f2f

... i would do some slides for the f2f

18:39:29 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:39:32 <ivan> ... i have a clear idea, but i would like to present to you in person

... i have a clear idea, but i would like to present to you in person

18:39:42 <ivan> IanH: ivan cannot travel for the f2f

Ian Horrocks: ivan cannot travel for the f2f

18:39:55 <ivan> ... so we have to schedule it for the first half of the day

... so we have to schedule it for the first half of the day

18:40:05 <ivan> ... so that ivan should be around at least remotely

... so that ivan should be around at least remotely

18:41:55 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:41:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:42:02 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:42:21 <ivan> bmotik: i thought a starter as a discussion and circulate the slides before the f2f

Boris Motik: i thought a starter as a discussion and circulate the slides before the f2f

18:42:29 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:42:29 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:43:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:43:04 <bijan> No

Bijan Parsia: No

18:43:09 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:43:18 <ivan> IanH: the second on of these is the comment from rm1

Ian Horrocks: the second on of these is the comment from rm1

18:43:19 <schneid> would lead to a slight BW issue...

Michael Schneider: would lead to a slight BW issue...

18:43:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:43:27 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

18:43:33 <ivan> ... the default would be to say that this cannot be done

... the default would be to say that this cannot be done

18:43:43 <ivan> bijan: it breaks backward compatibility!

Bijan Parsia: it breaks backward compatibility!

18:43:45 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:43:49 <msmith> sounds great

Mike Smith: sounds great

18:43:50 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:43:50 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

18:43:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:43:50 <ivan> IanH: that is a good reason to me

Ian Horrocks: that is a good reason to me

18:43:57 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

18:44:16 <ivan> schneid: it would also make it pretty useless, you cannot have keyword, you cannot tag anything

Michael Schneider: it would also make it pretty useless, you cannot have keyword, you cannot tag anything

18:44:17 <bernardo> I think the backwards compatibility is more than enough

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I think the backwards compatibility is more than enough

18:44:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:44:34 <ivan> bijan: you are right, but just to make it non-starter for procedural reason make it simple

Bijan Parsia: you are right, but just to make it non-starter for procedural reason make it simple

18:44:36 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:44:36 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:44:38 <pfps> +1 to the end

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to the end

18:44:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:45:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:45:15 <schneid> ok

Michael Schneider: ok

18:45:44 <schneid> alright

Michael Schneider: alright

18:45:48 <ivan> action bijan: respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems

action bijan: respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems

18:45:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-286 - Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-286 - Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].

18:46:04 <schneid> no, action on schneid

Michael Schneider: no, action on schneid

18:46:27 <ivan> close action 286

close ACTION-286

18:46:33 <sandro> action-286 closed

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-286 closed

18:46:33 <trackbot> ACTION-286 Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-286 Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems closed

18:47:36 <ivan> IanH: next item was from bp1

Ian Horrocks: next item was from bp1

18:47:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:47:55 <pfps> huh?

Peter Patel-Schneider: huh?

18:47:56 <ivan> bijan: people in different lists asked to have a name for an axiom

Bijan Parsia: people in different lists asked to have a name for an axiom

18:48:00 <sandro> action: michael  Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems

ACTION: michael Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems

18:48:00 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - michael

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - michael

18:48:00 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. msmith9, mschneid, msintek)

Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. msmith9, mschneid, msintek)

18:48:11 <sandro> action: mschneid Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems

ACTION: mschneid Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems

18:48:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-287 - Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems [on Michael Schneider - due 2009-02-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-287 - Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems [on Michael Schneider - due 2009-02-18].

18:48:13 <pfps> this is not BP1

Peter Patel-Schneider: this is not BP1

18:48:14 <ivan> ... they were asking for standard generation of names, but that is too hard

... they were asking for standard generation of names, but that is too hard

18:48:26 <ivan> ... but m'ter people just wanted to have a standard place to hook it in

... but m'ter people just wanted to have a standard place to hook it in

18:48:51 <ivan> ... instead of using annotation, there would be some 'axiom name' in a standard way

... instead of using annotation, there would be some 'axiom name' in a standard way

18:48:52 <pfps> NO!

Peter Patel-Schneider: NO!

18:49:31 <bijan> BP3

Bijan Parsia: BP3

18:49:36 <ivan> general screw up, this was the description of bp3...

general screw up, this was the description of bp3...

18:49:44 <pfps> BP3 is not on the agenda

Peter Patel-Schneider: BP3 is not on the agenda

18:50:05 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

18:50:07 <ivan> IanH: it seems like an easy thing to do as another built in annotation property

Ian Horrocks: it seems like an easy thing to do as another built in annotation property

18:50:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:50:12 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

18:50:18 <msmith> q+ to ask about size of changes to syntax

Mike Smith: q+ to ask about size of changes to syntax

18:50:20 <ewallace> can we have a pointer?

Evan Wallace: can we have a pointer?

18:50:26 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:50:29 <ivan> pfps: i will hold my nose... but we are heading down on the road of good intentions...

Peter Patel-Schneider: i will hold my nose... but we are heading down on the road of good intentions...

18:50:39 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:50:39 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to ask about size of changes to syntax

Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to ask about size of changes to syntax

18:51:04 <msmith> +1 to this proposal

Mike Smith: +1 to this proposal

18:51:07 <pfps> no syntax change - only change to documents is to add owl:xxxx as an annotation property

Peter Patel-Schneider: no syntax change - only change to documents is to add owl:xxxx as an annotation property

18:51:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:51:15 <ivan> msmith: the syntax structure would not change at all, but just have one more annotation property defined for that purpose

Mike Smith: the syntax structure would not change at all, but just have one more annotation property defined for that purpose

18:51:25 <ivan> 0

0

18:52:36 <ivan> action bijan: propose a change on the documents

action bijan: propose a change on the documents

18:52:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-288 - Propose a change on the documents  [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-288 - Propose a change on the documents [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].

18:52:52 <ivan> IanH: now we can go back to bp1

Ian Horrocks: now we can go back to bp1

18:52:59 <ivan> bijan: this one is more complicated...

Bijan Parsia: this one is more complicated...

18:53:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:53:35 <ivan> ... it would be nice to have a standard way to mark particular axioms to be invisible to the reasoners

... it would be nice to have a standard way to mark particular axioms to be invisible to the reasoners

18:53:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:53:41 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:53:52 <ivan> ... old version of the axioms, alternative reasoning, etc

... old version of the axioms, alternative reasoning, etc

18:54:03 <msmith> We are discussing this LC Comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jan/0100.html

Mike Smith: We are discussing this LC Comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jan/0100.html

18:54:16 <ivan> ... each syntax has a textual comment, but we cannot rely on tools really looking at them

... each syntax has a textual comment, but we cannot rely on tools really looking at them

18:54:31 <ivan> ... we cannot publish a document with the old versions of the axioms

... we cannot publish a document with the old versions of the axioms

18:54:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:54:55 <ivan> ... this is the need

... this is the need

18:55:03 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:55:03 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

18:55:05 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:55:09 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

18:55:10 <ivan> ... ability to hide axioms from reasoners but not from the structural model

... ability to hide axioms from reasoners but not from the structural model

18:55:10 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

18:55:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:55:47 <ivan> schneid: when you have an ontology understandable on the owl1 and you add these to it and you have to use owl 2 systems to understand

Michael Schneider: when you have an ontology understandable on the owl1 and you add these to it and you have to use owl 2 systems to understand

18:56:09 <ivan> bijan: to requirement is to hide axioms that survive the syntax conversions

Bijan Parsia: to requirement is to hide axioms that survive the syntax conversions

18:56:21 <ivan> IanH: but they would not work with owl 1, right

Ian Horrocks: but they would not work with owl 1, right

18:56:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:56:29 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:56:29 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:56:33 <ivan> schneid: there would be interoperability problems

Michael Schneider: there would be interoperability problems

18:56:33 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:56:33 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:56:37 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:56:48 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:56:59 <sandro> q+ to ask why not just put the "old stuff" in another document?

Sandro Hawke: q+ to ask why not just put the "old stuff" in another document?

18:57:00 <ivan> bmotik: i worry that annotation become a catch-all for everything, like alan rector's requirements, now having this request

Boris Motik: i worry that annotation become a catch-all for everything, like alan rector's requirements, now having this request

18:57:00 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

18:57:06 <ivan> ... i am scared for all this

... i am scared for all this

18:57:16 <ivan> ... i understand that applications would want this

... i understand that applications would want this

18:57:30 <ivan> ... but having that with annotations for this...

... but having that with annotations for this...

18:57:36 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:57:39 <ivan> ... that is leading us out of scope

... that is leading us out of scope

18:57:40 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:57:42 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

18:57:47 <ivan> pfps: that takes us to hell:-(

Peter Patel-Schneider: that takes us to hell:-(

18:58:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:58:11 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

18:58:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:58:31 <ivan> bijan: there was a stronger comment from m'ter for all of these and I tried to break it down into separate concerns

Bijan Parsia: there was a stronger comment from m'ter for all of these and I tried to break it down into separate concerns

18:58:53 <ivan> bijan: i want reiterate is that it is not necessarily annotation

Bijan Parsia: i want reiterate is that it is not necessarily annotation

18:59:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:59:40 <ivan> ... alternatively in an xml syntax we use xml commenting with a special initial tag like ---AXIOM---, in the m'ter syntax we can use the same approach

... alternatively in an xml syntax we use xml commenting with a special initial tag like ---AXIOM---, in the m'ter syntax we can use the same approach

18:59:52 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

18:59:55 <ivan> ... the parsing model should take these into the structural model

... the parsing model should take these into the structural model

19:00:09 <ivan> ... this is one solution and answer the objections thus far...

... this is one solution and answer the objections thus far...

19:00:29 <ivan> IanH: it would help to have a more specific proposal off line, it is difficult to understand the details

Ian Horrocks: it would help to have a more specific proposal off line, it is difficult to understand the details

19:00:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:00:40 <ivan> bijan: if the wg is open to that, i am happy to

Bijan Parsia: if the wg is open to that, i am happy to

19:00:41 <IanH> ack sandro

Ian Horrocks: ack sandro

19:00:41 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask why not just put the "old stuff" in another document?

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to ask why not just put the "old stuff" in another document?

19:00:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:00:59 <ivan> sandro: all the solutions i can think of do not work for me

Sandro Hawke: all the solutions i can think of do not work for me

19:01:09 <ivan> ... except using another another file

... except using another another file

19:01:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:01:32 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

19:01:32 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

19:01:37 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

19:02:16 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

19:02:16 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

19:02:17 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

19:02:19 <ivan> schneid: if this is outside the normal set of axioms than my argument is moot, but if it is mapped back into the rdf mapping then it is impossible to handle that with a full reasoner, they do more inferencing not less

Michael Schneider: if this is outside the normal set of axioms than my argument is moot, but if it is mapped back into the rdf mapping then it is impossible to handle that with a full reasoner, they do more inferencing not less

19:02:33 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:02:49 <ivan> pfps: a translation to rdf should also be worked out with full reasoning working properly as well

Peter Patel-Schneider: a translation to rdf should also be worked out with full reasoning working properly as well

19:03:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:03:20 <ivan> IanH: it might be useful to have a straw poll whether bijan should go and work out a full proposal

Ian Horrocks: it might be useful to have a straw poll whether bijan should go and work out a full proposal

19:03:33 <Christine> +q

Christine Golbreich: +q

19:03:50 <Christine> +q

Christine Golbreich: +q

19:03:53 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:04:04 <Christine> +q

Christine Golbreich: +q

19:04:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:04:15 <IanH> ack Christine

Ian Horrocks: ack Christine

19:04:15 <sandro> ack Christine

Sandro Hawke: ack Christine

19:05:01 <ivan> Christine: a general comment, this seems to be a very specific need, we should weight the benefit between this generic need and keep the spec less complex

Christine Golbreich: a general comment, this seems to be a very specific need, we should weight the benefit between this generic need and keep the spec less complex

19:05:14 <sandro> strawpoll: is it likely we'll change OWL2 in some way to provide a solution here, some way to keep axioms around but not accessible to the reasoner?

STRAWPOLL: is it likely we'll change OWL2 in some way to provide a solution here, some way to keep axioms around but not accessible to the reasoner?

19:05:21 <ivan> ... bijan can surely propose a solution but the document would become too complex

... bijan can surely propose a solution but the document would become too complex

19:05:31 <pfps> -1

Peter Patel-Schneider: -1

19:05:32 <ewallace> +1 on Bijan providing a proposal

Evan Wallace: +1 on Bijan providing a proposal

19:05:33 <sandro> -1

Sandro Hawke: -1

19:05:33 <ivan> -1

-1

19:05:37 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1

19:05:38 <schneid> -0.9

Michael Schneider: -0.9

19:05:41 <MarkusK_> 0

Markus Krötzsch: 0

19:05:43 <bernardo> 0

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 0

19:05:44 <uli> 0

Uli Sattler: 0

19:05:44 <Achille> 0

Achille Fokoue: 0

19:05:47 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

19:05:51 <IanH> -1

Ian Horrocks: -1

19:05:53 <Christine> lost irc

Christine Golbreich: lost irc

19:06:02 <Zhe> 0

Zhe Wu: 0

19:06:23 <sandro> Christine: 0 or -1

Christine Golbreich: 0 or -1 [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

19:06:25 <ivan> 0 for Christine

0 for Christine

19:06:51 <ivan> IanH: apathy or negative seems to carry...

Ian Horrocks: apathy or negative seems to carry...

19:07:06 <ivan> bijan: it seems that the wg will not accept it

Bijan Parsia: it seems that the wg will not accept it

19:07:27 <ivan> ... i propose to answer to that person that the group cannot properly do it...

... i propose to answer to that person that the group cannot properly do it...

19:07:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:08:49 <sandro> PROPOSED: Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case.   We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around.

PROPOSED: Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case. We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around.

19:08:58 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

19:09:00 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

19:09:01 <ivan> +1

+1

19:09:07 <bernardo> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

19:09:09 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

19:09:09 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

19:09:09 <MarkusK_> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

19:09:10 <ewallace> 0

Evan Wallace: 0

19:09:11 <bijan> 0

Bijan Parsia: 0

19:09:12 <msmith> +!

Mike Smith: +!

19:09:13 <schneid> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

19:09:15 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

19:09:18 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

19:09:23 <bijan> -1

Bijan Parsia: -1

19:09:31 <uli> 0

Uli Sattler: 0

19:10:14 <sandro> Bijan: I'm opposed, but I wont formally object

Bijan Parsia: I'm opposed, but I wont formally object [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

19:10:22 <sandro> RESOLVED: Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case.   We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around.

RESOLVED: Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case. We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around.

19:10:56 <ivan> IanH: one thing i wanted to settle: asking people to take on the job of answering some of the easy cases

Ian Horrocks: one thing i wanted to settle: asking people to take on the job of answering some of the easy cases

19:11:02 <ivan> ... to get people work in parallel

... to get people work in parallel

19:11:16 <ivan> ... alan and i went through the list with the easy ones

... alan and i went through the list with the easy ones

19:12:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:12:44 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

19:12:44 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

19:12:49 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

19:12:59 <IanH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0006.html

Ian Horrocks: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0006.html

19:13:02 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

19:13:02 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

19:13:38 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:14:03 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

19:14:03 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik

19:14:08 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:14:46 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:15:28 <ivan> bmotik: we do not expect to resolve for next week, but maybe schneid and me could talk about ms2 at the f2f

Boris Motik: we do not expect to resolve for next week, but maybe schneid and me could talk about ms2 at the f2f

19:15:41 <bijan> This is totally editorial and a message saying that is great

Bijan Parsia: This is totally editorial and a message saying that is great

19:15:41 <ivan> (scribe gave up)

(scribe gave up)

19:15:58 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

19:15:58 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

19:16:52 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

19:17:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:17:04 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

19:17:07 <pfps> the answer is known

Peter Patel-Schneider: the answer is known

19:18:10 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

19:18:10 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

19:18:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:18:22 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

19:18:30 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

19:19:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:20:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:20:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:20:36 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

19:20:36 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

19:20:52 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:21:15 <schneid> schneid: currently, we use the term "lexical value", but OWL 1 and RDF uses the term "lexical form"

Michael Schneider: currently, we use the term "lexical value", but OWL 1 and RDF uses the term "lexical form" [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

19:21:35 <schneid> schneid: in addition, boris pointed out that the XSD spec uses "lexical representation"

Michael Schneider: in addition, boris pointed out that the XSD spec uses "lexical representation" [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

19:21:36 <pfps> yes

Peter Patel-Schneider: yes

19:21:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:21:49 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:22:28 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

19:22:28 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

19:23:03 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

19:23:03 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

19:23:47 <bijan> I lost track

Bijan Parsia: I lost track

19:23:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

19:23:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

19:23:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:24:04 <schneid> schneid: I am still prefering "lexical /form/", since our notion of datatypes is not restricted to XSD datatypes, so it is not mandatory that we take the terminology from XSD

Michael Schneider: I am still prefering "lexical /form/", since our notion of datatypes is not restricted to XSD datatypes, so it is not mandatory that we take the terminology from XSD [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

19:24:04 <ivan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0040.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0040.html

19:24:56 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:25:33 <ivan> q+

q+

19:25:33 <pfps> yes

Peter Patel-Schneider: yes

19:25:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:25:45 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:26:29 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:26:32 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

19:27:59 <uli> sure

Uli Sattler: sure

19:28:40 <pfps> yes

Peter Patel-Schneider: yes

19:28:41 <Zakim> -schneid

Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid

19:29:26 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:29:38 <pfps> :-)

Peter Patel-Schneider: :-)

19:30:28 <pfps> yes

Peter Patel-Schneider: yes

19:31:18 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

19:31:18 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted

19:31:30 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:31:41 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

19:31:43 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

19:32:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:32:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:32:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:32:38 <bijan> I have a question about [62]

Bijan Parsia: I have a question about [62]

19:32:47 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:32:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:32:54 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

19:32:55 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:32:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:33:04 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:33:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:33:51 <pfps> the Wiki keeps track of diffs - everyone should mark their changes correctly

Peter Patel-Schneider: the Wiki keeps track of diffs - everyone should mark their changes correctly

19:33:53 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan

19:34:01 <ewallace> me too

Evan Wallace: me too

19:34:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:34:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:35:09 <Zhe> bye

Zhe Wu: bye

19:35:09 <Zakim> -bmotik.a

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik.a

19:35:13 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

19:35:17 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan

19:35:20 <Zakim> -MarkusK_

Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK_

19:35:21 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith

19:35:24 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider

19:35:25 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille

19:35:28 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe

19:35:30 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

19:35:31 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli

19:35:33 <Zakim> -christine

Zakim IRC Bot: -christine

19:35:37 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

19:38:03 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

19:38:04 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH

19:38:04 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended

19:38:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, bmotik, IanH, bijan, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid, christine, uli, msmith, Zhe, Achille, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, bmotik, IanH, bijan, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid, christine, uli, msmith, Zhe, Achille, Sandro


This revision (#1) generated 2009-02-11 22:20:55 UTC by 'ihorrock2', comments: None