00:00:00 <scribenick> PRESENT: Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan, bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, Michael Schneider (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe, Achille, Bernardo, Sandro
17:58:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-owl-irc ←
17:59:13 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.02.11/Agenda
Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.02.11/Agenda ←
17:59:25 <IanH> Zakim, this will be owlwg
Ian Horrocks: Zakim, this will be owlwg ←
17:59:25 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←
17:59:40 <IanH> ScribeNick: bijan
(Scribe set to Bijan Parsia)
17:59:49 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started ←
17:59:53 <bijan> I'm wondering if someone might take over for me scribing
I'm wondering if someone might take over for me scribing ←
17:59:56 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
18:00:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
18:00:06 <bijan> I've got a rather nasty headache which is making it hard to concentrate
I've got a rather nasty headache which is making it hard to concentrate ←
18:00:29 <Zakim> +bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik ←
18:00:30 <IanH> Do we have a volunteer to take over from Bijan?
Ian Horrocks: Do we have a volunteer to take over from Bijan? ←
18:00:38 <bijan> I'll do it if no one volunteers of course
I'll do it if no one volunteers of course ←
18:01:07 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
18:01:21 <Zakim> +IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH ←
18:01:23 <bmotik> Zakim, this will be owl
Boris Motik: Zakim, this will be owl ←
18:01:23 <Zakim> ok, bmotik, I see SW_OWL()1:00PM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, bmotik, I see SW_OWL()1:00PM already started ←
18:01:29 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
18:01:33 <Zakim> +bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik ←
18:01:36 <bijan> zakim, ??p18 is me
zakim, ??p18 is me ←
18:01:36 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
18:01:37 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:01:38 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:01:40 <bijan> zakim, mute me
zakim, mute me ←
18:01:40 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:01:41 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public ←
18:01:54 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:01:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted) ←
18:01:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bcuencagrau, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bcuencagrau, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace ←
18:01:59 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
18:01:59 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
18:02:01 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
18:02:04 <Zakim> +bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a ←
18:02:26 <IanH> CAN SOMEONE TAKE OVER SCRIBING -- Bijan is unwell
Ian Horrocks: CAN SOMEONE TAKE OVER SCRIBING -- Bijan is unwell ←
18:02:29 <bijan> Topic: Admin
18:02:30 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace ←
18:02:40 <Zakim> -bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik.a ←
18:02:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
18:02:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
zakim, unmute me ←
18:02:51 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:03:00 <schneid> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Michael Schneider: zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
18:03:00 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it ←
18:03:04 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:03:04 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:03:06 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
18:03:16 <bijan> zakim, mute me
zakim, mute me ←
18:03:16 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:03:34 <Christine> zakim, ??P10 is christine
Christine Golbreich: zakim, ??P10 is christine ←
18:03:34 <Zakim> +christine; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +christine; got it ←
18:03:42 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
18:03:49 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:03:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), christine, ??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), christine, ??P11 ←
18:03:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bcuencagrau, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bcuencagrau, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace ←
18:03:53 <uli> zakim, ??P11 is me
Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P11 is me ←
18:03:54 <Zakim> -christine
Zakim IRC Bot: -christine ←
18:03:55 <Zakim> +uli; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it ←
18:04:01 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
18:04:04 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
18:04:13 <Zakim> +bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a ←
18:04:46 <Zakim> -bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik.a ←
18:04:51 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
18:04:55 <uli> i said i'd volunteer if need be
Uli Sattler: i said i'd volunteer if need be ←
18:05:03 <Christine> zakim, ??P10 is christine
Christine Golbreich: zakim, ??P10 is christine ←
18:05:03 <Zakim> +christine; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +christine; got it ←
18:05:09 <Zakim> +msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith ←
18:05:24 <uli> thanks, Ivan!
Uli Sattler: thanks, Ivan! ←
18:05:30 <ivan> scribenick: ivan
(Scribe set to Ivan Herman)
18:05:41 <pfps> and he's British so no worries about washing it off
Peter Patel-Schneider: and he's British so no worries about washing it off ←
18:05:45 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aaaa ←
18:05:57 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aaaa is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aaaa is me ←
18:05:57 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←
18:05:58 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:05:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe ←
18:06:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see msmith, Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see msmith, Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace ←
18:06:10 <ivan> Topic: roll call
18:06:14 <bijan> scribe: ivan
18:06:15 <ivan> ian: agenda amendement
Ian Horrocks: agenda amendement ←
18:06:20 <pfps> look fine by me
Peter Patel-Schneider: look fine by me ←
18:06:25 <ivan> ian: propose to accept previous minutes
Ian Horrocks: propose to accept previous minutes ←
18:06:28 <ivan> peter: fine
Peter Patel-Schneider: fine ←
18:06:39 <ivan> ian: resolve to accept the minutes
Ian Horrocks: resolve to accept the minutes ←
18:06:44 <ivan> topic: action items
18:06:55 <ivan> ian: not spend time on the pending actions
Ian Horrocks: not spend time on the pending actions ←
18:07:02 <ivan> ian: those four should go on...
Ian Horrocks: those four should go on... ←
18:07:08 <ivan> ian: due and overdue action
Ian Horrocks: due and overdue action ←
18:07:13 <bijan> That was closed
Bijan Parsia: That was closed ←
18:07:14 <pfps> +q
18:07:16 <bijan> He has done it
Bijan Parsia: He has done it ←
18:07:18 <ivan> ... the one on alan, I believe that is gone
... the one on alan, I believe that is gone ←
18:07:19 <pfps> q-
18:07:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:07:47 <ivan> action 264: another one on alan
ACTION-264: another one on alan ←
18:07:47 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 264
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 264 ←
18:07:57 <ivan> ... he sent a mail that he would get on that soon,
... he sent a mail that he would get on that soon, ←
18:07:59 <ewallace> 269 has been mute.
Evan Wallace: 269 has been mute. ←
18:08:00 <ivan> ... leave it open
... leave it open ←
18:08:05 <bijan> That was mooted
Bijan Parsia: That was mooted ←
18:08:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:08:08 <ivan> action 269 is also on alan
ACTION-269 is also on alan ←
18:08:09 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 269
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 269 ←
18:08:13 <bijan> Yes
Bijan Parsia: Yes ←
18:08:17 <Christine> yes it's moote
Christine Golbreich: yes it's moote ←
18:08:18 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:08:18 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:08:33 <ewallace> s/mute/moot/
Evan Wallace: s/mute/moot/ ←
18:08:33 <ivan> ewallace: that was closed last time, alan did not close it
Evan Wallace: that was closed last time, alan did not close it ←
18:08:43 <ivan> ian: number 278
Ian Horrocks: number 278 ←
18:08:47 <ivan> ... in Jie
... in Jie ←
18:08:52 <Zakim> +bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a ←
18:08:54 <ivan> ... but he is not here
... but he is not here ←
18:09:02 <bernardo> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
18:09:02 <Zakim> sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bernardo, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
18:09:04 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:09:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan, bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe, bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, IanH, bijan, bmotik (muted), Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), uli (muted), christine, msmith, Zhe, bmotik.a ←
18:09:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, bernardo, msmith, Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, bernardo, msmith, Christine, uli, Zhe, bmotik, pfps, MarkusK_, schneid, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, bijan, sandro, trackbot, ewallace ←
18:09:16 <ivan> bijan: he sent a mail he set it as a pending review
Bijan Parsia: he sent a mail he set it as a pending review ←
18:09:31 <ivan> ian: next one 279 on bijan
Ian Horrocks: next one 279 on bijan ←
18:09:33 <bernardo> for some reason Zakim is identifying me as bmotik.a no matter what I do
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: for some reason Zakim is identifying me as bmotik.a no matter what I do ←
18:09:44 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
18:09:48 <ivan> bijan: the unicode site was down, i will do it tomorrow
Bijan Parsia: the unicode site was down, i will do it tomorrow ←
18:10:00 <ivan> Topic: f2f
18:10:08 <Achille> Zakim, ibm is me
Achille Fokoue: Zakim, ibm is me ←
18:10:08 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
18:10:08 <ivan> ian: there is an agenda available
Ian Horrocks: there is an agenda available ←
18:10:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:10:12 <pfps> agenda looks fine (and packed)
Peter Patel-Schneider: agenda looks fine (and packed) ←
18:10:13 <ivan> ... comments?
... comments? ←
18:10:31 <ivan> topic: announcements on xsd 1.1. being on last call
18:10:37 <ivan> ian: they are looking for comments
Ian Horrocks: they are looking for comments ←
18:10:44 <ivan> ... we probably should make some review on that
... we probably should make some review on that ←
18:10:44 <pfps> q+
18:10:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:10:51 <ivan> ... even if we like it
... even if we like it ←
18:10:53 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
18:11:03 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
18:11:03 <ivan> pfps: i sent a message to the wg, i suggest they done the right thing
Peter Patel-Schneider: i sent a message to the wg, i suggest they done the right thing ←
18:11:08 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:11:37 <ivan> ... there are not many changes, but the ones we wanted are correct
... there are not many changes, but the ones we wanted are correct ←
18:11:44 <ivan> ian: did you suggest a response?
Ian Horrocks: did you suggest a response? ←
18:11:48 <msmith> this is the new builtin type for us http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#dateTimeStamp
Mike Smith: this is the new builtin type for us http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#dateTimeStamp ←
18:11:58 <bijan> It looks like ACTION-272 is pending review in spite of its tracker status
Bijan Parsia: It looks like ACTION-272 is pending review in spite of its tracker status ←
18:12:01 <ivan> ... let us look at the response off line and next week we can decide
... let us look at the response off line and next week we can decide ←
18:12:12 <bijan> See: <http://www.w3.org/mid/b0ed1d660902091219r5b80f5a6mbaede7cd7faf7e59@mail.gmail.com>
Bijan Parsia: See: <http://www.w3.org/mid/b0ed1d660902091219r5b80f5a6mbaede7cd7faf7e59@mail.gmail.com> ←
18:12:14 <ivan> (that I cannot scribe)
(that I cannot scribe) ←
18:12:41 <ivan> pfps: the changes take care of our things, we can now point at the xml schema, and remove our own stuff
Peter Patel-Schneider: the changes take care of our things, we can now point at the xml schema, and remove our own stuff ←
18:12:53 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
18:12:57 <ivan> IanH: we have to make this comment after the f2f, we have time
Ian Horrocks: we have to make this comment after the f2f, we have time ←
18:13:09 <ewallace> Can we at least give a nod to Peter's proposed response
Evan Wallace: Can we at least give a nod to Peter's proposed response ←
18:13:28 <ivan> action pfps: to send out a respoinse after the f2f
action pfps: to send out a respoinse after the f2f ←
18:13:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-281 - Send out a respoinse after the f2f [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-281 - Send out a respoinse after the f2f [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-02-18]. ←
18:13:32 <sandro> q+ to ask about wording on disjointness of value spaces
Sandro Hawke: q+ to ask about wording on disjointness of value spaces ←
18:13:41 <ivan> s/respoinse/response/
s/respoinse/response/ ←
18:13:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:13:55 <IanH> ack sandro
Ian Horrocks: ack sandro ←
18:13:55 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask about wording on disjointness of value spaces
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to ask about wording on disjointness of value spaces ←
18:14:09 <ivan> sandro: did peter look at the way on the disjointness of value spaces, whether it is muddy
Sandro Hawke: did peter look at the way on the disjointness of value spaces, whether it is muddy ←
18:14:15 <ewallace> 1.1
Evan Wallace: 1.1 ←
18:14:21 <ivan> pfps: there is no change vs the previous version
Peter Patel-Schneider: there is no change vs the previous version ←
18:14:53 <ivan> pfps: they are quite clear that as far as datastructuring is concerned...
Peter Patel-Schneider: they are quite clear that as far as datastructuring is concerned... ←
18:15:36 <ivan> sandro: do we have any useful feedback on our issues and the answer is no
Sandro Hawke: do we have any useful feedback on our issues and the answer is no ←
18:15:47 <sandro> (the answer from Peter, that is.)
Sandro Hawke: (the answer from Peter, that is.) ←
18:16:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:16:08 <pfps> in the current XML LC, "2.0"^^xsd:decimal and "2.0"^^xsd:float are distinct data structures, and thus not equal
Peter Patel-Schneider: in the current XML LC, "2.0"^^xsd:decimal and "2.0"^^xsd:float are distinct data structures, and thus not equal ←
18:16:10 <ivan> topic: test cases
18:16:27 <ivan> IanH: it is fairly important
Ian Horrocks: it is fairly important ←
18:16:34 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:16:44 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:16:45 <pfps> the XML schema document says that applications can choose to use other equalities, for example to make the about 2.0's equal
Peter Patel-Schneider: the XML schema document says that applications can choose to use other equalities, for example to make the about 2.0's equal ←
18:16:45 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
18:16:49 <ivan> ... there was a discussioni on email that many owl 1 cases are brokent because they lack the ontology header
... there was a discussioni on email that many owl 1 cases are brokent because they lack the ontology header ←
18:16:52 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:16:54 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:17:16 <ivan> bijan: the old thing was incorrect, those were labelled as dl and they were in fact not
Bijan Parsia: the old thing was incorrect, those were labelled as dl and they were in fact not ←
18:17:30 <ivan> ... because they did not have the header
... because they did not have the header ←
18:17:31 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:17:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:17:44 <ivan> msmith: there are about 130 test cases like this
Mike Smith: there are about 130 test cases like this ←
18:17:53 <ivan> ... i would modify these adding a header
... i would modify these adding a header ←
18:18:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:18:11 <ivan> ... or just say these are not dl but it would be better to add the headers
... or just say these are not dl but it would be better to add the headers ←
18:18:26 <schneid> wasn't it allowed to have a bnode as the subject of the header? would simplify things
Michael Schneider: wasn't it allowed to have a bnode as the subject of the header? would simplify things ←
18:18:28 <ivan> bijan: maybe we should post an errata that the test cases were incorrect
Bijan Parsia: maybe we should post an errata that the test cases were incorrect ←
18:18:29 <msmith> action msmith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header
Mike Smith: action msmith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header ←
18:18:29 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith ←
18:18:32 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
18:18:38 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:18:41 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:18:44 <pfps> in OWL 1, the translation to triples includes an rdf:type owl:Ontology triple
Peter Patel-Schneider: in OWL 1, the translation to triples includes an rdf:type owl:Ontology triple ←
18:18:55 <msmith> action michaelsm: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header
Mike Smith: action michaelsm: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header ←
18:18:55 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - michaelsm
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - michaelsm ←
18:19:04 <pfps> +1 to Bijan
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to Bijan ←
18:19:09 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:19:10 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:19:11 <msmith> action mismith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header
Mike Smith: action mismith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header ←
18:19:11 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - mismith
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - mismith ←
18:19:21 <pfps> +1 to issue an Errata (formally)
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to issue an Errata (formally) ←
18:19:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:20:00 <sandro> action: smith: testing
ACTION: smith: testing ←
18:20:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-282 - Testing [on Michael Smith - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-282 - Testing [on Michael Smith - due 2009-02-18]. ←
18:20:08 <msmith> sure
Mike Smith: sure ←
18:20:18 <sandro> action-282 closed
Sandro Hawke: ACTION-282 closed ←
18:20:18 <trackbot> ACTION-282 Testing closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-282 Testing closed ←
18:20:49 <ivan> topic: look at last call comments
18:21:03 <msmith> action smith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header and create content for errata on webont tests
Mike Smith: action smith: to add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header and create content for errata on webont tests ←
18:21:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-283 - Add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header and create content for errata on webont tests [on Michael Smith - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-283 - Add an ontology header and a comment to each of the test cases from WebOnt that are prevented from being syntactically OWL 2 DL only be the absence of this header and create content for errata on webont tests [on Michael Smith - due 2009-02-18]. ←
18:21:04 <ivan> IanH: i sent a mail on dealing this is a bit like we dealt with actions
Ian Horrocks: i sent a mail on dealing this is a bit like we dealt with actions ←
18:21:31 <ivan> ... we would have responses ready to send, and there is an assumption that they are fine unless somebody complains
... we would have responses ready to send, and there is an assumption that they are fine unless somebody complains ←
18:21:36 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:21:42 <Christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
18:21:44 <ivan> IanH: is that o.k. with this?
Ian Horrocks: is that o.k. with this? ←
18:21:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:21:52 <IanH> ack Christine
Ian Horrocks: ack Christine ←
18:22:27 <ivan> Christine: i want to say i disagree with one sentence, we have higher priorities this time, so I will make proposals later on the features doucment
Christine Golbreich: i want to say i disagree with one sentence, we have higher priorities this time, so I will make proposals later on the features doucment ←
18:22:50 <ivan> IanH: yes, we should get the lc comments done first
Ian Horrocks: yes, we should get the lc comments done first ←
18:23:09 <ivan> IanH: jh1 is accepted and can go
Ian Horrocks: jh1 is accepted and can go ←
18:23:15 <bijan> Jump to resolved
Bijan Parsia: Jump to resolved ←
18:23:50 <ivan> action bijan: send a response to jh1 comment
action bijan: send a response to jh1 comment ←
18:23:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-284 - Send a response to jh1 comment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-284 - Send a response to jh1 comment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18]. ←
18:24:13 <schneid> why doesn't the chair just write "RESOLVED: ..." for an LC comment put on the road?
Michael Schneider: why doesn't the chair just write "RESOLVED: ..." for an LC comment put on the road? ←
18:24:20 <ivan> IanH: next bunch are those that require more discussion
Ian Horrocks: next bunch are those that require more discussion ←
18:24:40 <ivan> bijan: i think the unicode one is almost finished
Bijan Parsia: i think the unicode one is almost finished ←
18:24:52 <ivan> ... my understanding is that as soon as it is finished i can send it
... my understanding is that as soon as it is finished i can send it ←
18:25:11 <ivan> ian: anyone opposing to md1 to be sent?
Ian Horrocks: anyone opposing to md1 to be sent? ←
18:25:17 <schneid> (ok, creating an ACTION is even better)
Michael Schneider: (ok, creating an ACTION is even better) ←
18:25:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:25:29 <ivan> action bijan: send out response to md1 comment
action bijan: send out response to md1 comment ←
18:25:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-285 - Send out response to md1 comment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-285 - Send out response to md1 comment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18]. ←
18:25:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:25:51 <ivan> IanH: vh4
Ian Horrocks: vh4 ←
18:25:58 <IanH> FH4
Ian Horrocks: FH4 ←
18:26:24 <ivan> IanH: this is addressing with lot of discussion on how we deal with anonymous individuals
Ian Horrocks: this is addressing with lot of discussion on how we deal with anonymous individuals ←
18:26:30 <ivan> ... he did not like the new way
... he did not like the new way ←
18:26:32 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
18:26:38 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:26:41 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:27:24 <bijan> ivan: Bijan's comment is great, but knowing Frank, it's difficult for me to believe that he'd make such a silly comment. So I agreed that I'd talk to Frank.
Ivan Herman: Bijan's comment is great, but knowing Frank, it's difficult for me to believe that he'd make such a silly comment. So I agreed that I'd talk to Frank. [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←
18:27:30 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:27:33 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:27:56 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:28:08 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:28:17 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
18:28:30 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:28:30 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
18:28:33 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
18:28:46 <ivan> schneid: what ivan wants to do can also be done by sending it out
Michael Schneider: what ivan wants to do can also be done by sending it out ←
18:29:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:29:14 <ivan> IanH: as he ivan will be there tomorrow why not trying to kill it as one iteration
Ian Horrocks: as he ivan will be there tomorrow why not trying to kill it as one iteration ←
18:29:14 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:29:14 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:29:15 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:29:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:29:50 <ivan> msmith: even if it is clarified, there is probably value to consider the answer the way bijan wrote it because others may have misunderstood it the same way
Mike Smith: even if it is clarified, there is probably value to consider the answer the way bijan wrote it because others may have misunderstood it the same way ←
18:29:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:30:00 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:30:02 <ivan> IanH: should we have a better explanation in the document
Ian Horrocks: should we have a better explanation in the document ←
18:30:03 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:30:03 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
18:30:05 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:30:24 <ivan> bijan: what level of granularity do we want to describe thigns
Bijan Parsia: what level of granularity do we want to describe thigns ←
18:30:27 <Christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
18:30:29 <schneid> schneid: as an alternative to first asking Frank, we can send the mail out and wait for Franks answer; this matches the official process
Michael Schneider: as an alternative to first asking Frank, we can send the mail out and wait for Franks answer; this matches the official process [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
18:30:32 <ivan> ... maybe in the new features is the right place
... maybe in the new features is the right place ←
18:30:42 <ivan> ... we have no other place to put it now
... we have no other place to put it now ←
18:31:01 <ivan> ... general design decisions are not documented yet
... general design decisions are not documented yet ←
18:31:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:31:10 <ivan> ... do we really want to document things on that level?
... do we really want to document things on that level? ←
18:31:14 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
18:31:43 <ivan> Christine: bijan said what i would propose, there are general design decisions that are not documented
Christine Golbreich: bijan said what i would propose, there are general design decisions that are not documented ←
18:31:58 <IanH> ack Christine
Ian Horrocks: ack Christine ←
18:32:04 <ivan> ... before the first draft publications i discussed with some members
... before the first draft publications i discussed with some members ←
18:32:15 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:32:17 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:32:32 <Christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
18:32:47 <bijan> But this isn't a difference between OWL 1 and OWL 2
Bijan Parsia: But this isn't a difference between OWL 1 and OWL 2 ←
18:32:54 <bijan> but in OWL 1's *spec* and OWL 2's spec!
Bijan Parsia: but in OWL 1's *spec* and OWL 2's spec! ←
18:33:05 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:33:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:33:53 <IanH> ack Christine
Ian Horrocks: ack Christine ←
18:34:25 <ivan> Christine: we can do that in due time, we can list the general specific points, when we can know which one we want to document
Christine Golbreich: we can do that in due time, we can list the general specific points, when we can know which one we want to document ←
18:34:31 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:35:02 <ivan> bijan: we used to have an appendix on similar things but we removed it for some person's objection...
Bijan Parsia: we used to have an appendix on similar things but we removed it for some person's objection... ←
18:35:23 <ivan> IanH: we will have a section on the f2f on general documentation issues
Ian Horrocks: we will have a section on the f2f on general documentation issues ←
18:35:40 <ivan> IanH: i made a list of last call comments that require policy discussions
Ian Horrocks: i made a list of last call comments that require policy discussions ←
18:36:05 <ivan> ... first of those is that we were not very consistent on how we use the terms owl, owl full, owl dl, etc
... first of those is that we were not very consistent on how we use the terms owl, owl full, owl dl, etc ←
18:36:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:36:14 <bijan> I propose that we use OWL 2 for OWL DL.
Bijan Parsia: I propose that we use OWL 2 for OWL DL. ←
18:36:18 <ivan> ... there was a proposal sent round based on a discussion ivan and I had
... there was a proposal sent round based on a discussion ivan and I had ←
18:36:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:36:25 <ivan> ... anyone looked at that?
... anyone looked at that? ←
18:36:32 <pfps> +1
18:36:32 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:36:35 <ewallace> q+
Evan Wallace: q+ ←
18:36:36 <ivan> ... if nobody wants to discuss it...
... if nobody wants to discuss it... ←
18:36:42 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:36:53 <ivan> bijan: insert all sorts of dl-s and full-s everywhere?
Bijan Parsia: insert all sorts of dl-s and full-s everywhere? ←
18:37:17 <ivan> IanH: not only, there is a section in the syntax document that list all the strings that are required on ontology structures
Ian Horrocks: not only, there is a section in the syntax document that list all the strings that are required on ontology structures ←
18:37:39 <ivan> ... we have to work on that part to make it clear to describe which strings you have to have owl dl
... we have to work on that part to make it clear to describe which strings you have to have owl dl ←
18:38:00 <ewallace> q-
Evan Wallace: q- ←
18:38:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:38:04 <ivan> ... we have to take a close look when we were really considering dl
... we have to take a close look when we were really considering dl ←
18:38:09 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
18:38:18 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:38:30 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:38:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:38:40 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:38:40 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:38:43 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:38:58 <ivan> bmotik: at a highl level it looks good, the devil is in the details
Boris Motik: at a highl level it looks good, the devil is in the details ←
18:39:06 <ivan> ... doing it by email is rather difficult
... doing it by email is rather difficult ←
18:39:17 <ivan> ... i would do some slides for the f2f
... i would do some slides for the f2f ←
18:39:29 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:39:32 <ivan> ... i have a clear idea, but i would like to present to you in person
... i have a clear idea, but i would like to present to you in person ←
18:39:42 <ivan> IanH: ivan cannot travel for the f2f
Ian Horrocks: ivan cannot travel for the f2f ←
18:39:55 <ivan> ... so we have to schedule it for the first half of the day
... so we have to schedule it for the first half of the day ←
18:40:05 <ivan> ... so that ivan should be around at least remotely
... so that ivan should be around at least remotely ←
18:41:55 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:41:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:42:02 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:42:21 <ivan> bmotik: i thought a starter as a discussion and circulate the slides before the f2f
Boris Motik: i thought a starter as a discussion and circulate the slides before the f2f ←
18:42:29 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:42:29 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:43:03 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:43:04 <bijan> No
Bijan Parsia: No ←
18:43:09 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:43:18 <ivan> IanH: the second on of these is the comment from rm1
Ian Horrocks: the second on of these is the comment from rm1 ←
18:43:19 <schneid> would lead to a slight BW issue...
Michael Schneider: would lead to a slight BW issue... ←
18:43:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:43:27 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:43:33 <ivan> ... the default would be to say that this cannot be done
... the default would be to say that this cannot be done ←
18:43:43 <ivan> bijan: it breaks backward compatibility!
Bijan Parsia: it breaks backward compatibility! ←
18:43:45 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:43:49 <msmith> sounds great
Mike Smith: sounds great ←
18:43:50 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:43:50 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
18:43:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:43:50 <ivan> IanH: that is a good reason to me
Ian Horrocks: that is a good reason to me ←
18:43:57 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
18:44:16 <ivan> schneid: it would also make it pretty useless, you cannot have keyword, you cannot tag anything
Michael Schneider: it would also make it pretty useless, you cannot have keyword, you cannot tag anything ←
18:44:17 <bernardo> I think the backwards compatibility is more than enough
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I think the backwards compatibility is more than enough ←
18:44:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:44:34 <ivan> bijan: you are right, but just to make it non-starter for procedural reason make it simple
Bijan Parsia: you are right, but just to make it non-starter for procedural reason make it simple ←
18:44:36 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:44:36 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:44:38 <pfps> +1 to the end
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to the end ←
18:44:41 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:45:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:45:15 <schneid> ok
Michael Schneider: ok ←
18:45:44 <schneid> alright
Michael Schneider: alright ←
18:45:48 <ivan> action bijan: respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems
action bijan: respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems ←
18:45:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-286 - Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-286 - Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18]. ←
18:46:04 <schneid> no, action on schneid
Michael Schneider: no, action on schneid ←
18:46:27 <ivan> close action 286
close ACTION-286 ←
18:46:33 <sandro> action-286 closed
Sandro Hawke: ACTION-286 closed ←
18:46:33 <trackbot> ACTION-286 Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-286 Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems closed ←
18:47:36 <ivan> IanH: next item was from bp1
Ian Horrocks: next item was from bp1 ←
18:47:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:47:55 <pfps> huh?
Peter Patel-Schneider: huh? ←
18:47:56 <ivan> bijan: people in different lists asked to have a name for an axiom
Bijan Parsia: people in different lists asked to have a name for an axiom ←
18:48:00 <sandro> action: michael Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems
ACTION: michael Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems ←
18:48:00 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - michael
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - michael ←
18:48:00 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. msmith9, mschneid, msintek)
Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. msmith9, mschneid, msintek) ←
18:48:11 <sandro> action: mschneid Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems
ACTION: mschneid Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems ←
18:48:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-287 - Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems [on Michael Schneider - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-287 - Respond to rm1 along these lines of procedural problems [on Michael Schneider - due 2009-02-18]. ←
18:48:13 <pfps> this is not BP1
Peter Patel-Schneider: this is not BP1 ←
18:48:14 <ivan> ... they were asking for standard generation of names, but that is too hard
... they were asking for standard generation of names, but that is too hard ←
18:48:26 <ivan> ... but m'ter people just wanted to have a standard place to hook it in
... but m'ter people just wanted to have a standard place to hook it in ←
18:48:51 <ivan> ... instead of using annotation, there would be some 'axiom name' in a standard way
... instead of using annotation, there would be some 'axiom name' in a standard way ←
18:48:52 <pfps> NO!
Peter Patel-Schneider: NO! ←
18:49:31 <bijan> BP3
Bijan Parsia: BP3 ←
18:49:36 <ivan> general screw up, this was the description of bp3...
general screw up, this was the description of bp3... ←
18:49:44 <pfps> BP3 is not on the agenda
Peter Patel-Schneider: BP3 is not on the agenda ←
18:50:05 <pfps> q+
18:50:07 <ivan> IanH: it seems like an easy thing to do as another built in annotation property
Ian Horrocks: it seems like an easy thing to do as another built in annotation property ←
18:50:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:50:12 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
18:50:18 <msmith> q+ to ask about size of changes to syntax
Mike Smith: q+ to ask about size of changes to syntax ←
18:50:20 <ewallace> can we have a pointer?
Evan Wallace: can we have a pointer? ←
18:50:26 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:50:29 <ivan> pfps: i will hold my nose... but we are heading down on the road of good intentions...
Peter Patel-Schneider: i will hold my nose... but we are heading down on the road of good intentions... ←
18:50:39 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:50:39 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to ask about size of changes to syntax
Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to ask about size of changes to syntax ←
18:51:04 <msmith> +1 to this proposal
Mike Smith: +1 to this proposal ←
18:51:07 <pfps> no syntax change - only change to documents is to add owl:xxxx as an annotation property
Peter Patel-Schneider: no syntax change - only change to documents is to add owl:xxxx as an annotation property ←
18:51:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:51:15 <ivan> msmith: the syntax structure would not change at all, but just have one more annotation property defined for that purpose
Mike Smith: the syntax structure would not change at all, but just have one more annotation property defined for that purpose ←
18:51:25 <ivan> 0
0 ←
18:52:36 <ivan> action bijan: propose a change on the documents
action bijan: propose a change on the documents ←
18:52:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-288 - Propose a change on the documents [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-288 - Propose a change on the documents [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-02-18]. ←
18:52:52 <ivan> IanH: now we can go back to bp1
Ian Horrocks: now we can go back to bp1 ←
18:52:59 <ivan> bijan: this one is more complicated...
Bijan Parsia: this one is more complicated... ←
18:53:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:53:35 <ivan> ... it would be nice to have a standard way to mark particular axioms to be invisible to the reasoners
... it would be nice to have a standard way to mark particular axioms to be invisible to the reasoners ←
18:53:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:53:41 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:53:52 <ivan> ... old version of the axioms, alternative reasoning, etc
... old version of the axioms, alternative reasoning, etc ←
18:54:03 <msmith> We are discussing this LC Comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jan/0100.html
Mike Smith: We are discussing this LC Comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jan/0100.html ←
18:54:16 <ivan> ... each syntax has a textual comment, but we cannot rely on tools really looking at them
... each syntax has a textual comment, but we cannot rely on tools really looking at them ←
18:54:31 <ivan> ... we cannot publish a document with the old versions of the axioms
... we cannot publish a document with the old versions of the axioms ←
18:54:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:54:55 <ivan> ... this is the need
... this is the need ←
18:55:03 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:55:03 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
18:55:05 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:55:09 <pfps> q+
18:55:10 <ivan> ... ability to hide axioms from reasoners but not from the structural model
... ability to hide axioms from reasoners but not from the structural model ←
18:55:10 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
18:55:44 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:55:47 <ivan> schneid: when you have an ontology understandable on the owl1 and you add these to it and you have to use owl 2 systems to understand
Michael Schneider: when you have an ontology understandable on the owl1 and you add these to it and you have to use owl 2 systems to understand ←
18:56:09 <ivan> bijan: to requirement is to hide axioms that survive the syntax conversions
Bijan Parsia: to requirement is to hide axioms that survive the syntax conversions ←
18:56:21 <ivan> IanH: but they would not work with owl 1, right
Ian Horrocks: but they would not work with owl 1, right ←
18:56:23 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:56:29 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:56:29 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:56:33 <ivan> schneid: there would be interoperability problems
Michael Schneider: there would be interoperability problems ←
18:56:33 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:56:33 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:56:37 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:56:48 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:56:59 <sandro> q+ to ask why not just put the "old stuff" in another document?
Sandro Hawke: q+ to ask why not just put the "old stuff" in another document? ←
18:57:00 <ivan> bmotik: i worry that annotation become a catch-all for everything, like alan rector's requirements, now having this request
Boris Motik: i worry that annotation become a catch-all for everything, like alan rector's requirements, now having this request ←
18:57:00 <pfps> q+
18:57:06 <ivan> ... i am scared for all this
... i am scared for all this ←
18:57:16 <ivan> ... i understand that applications would want this
... i understand that applications would want this ←
18:57:30 <ivan> ... but having that with annotations for this...
... but having that with annotations for this... ←
18:57:36 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:57:39 <ivan> ... that is leading us out of scope
... that is leading us out of scope ←
18:57:40 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:57:42 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
18:57:47 <ivan> pfps: that takes us to hell:-(
Peter Patel-Schneider: that takes us to hell:-( ←
18:58:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:58:11 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:58:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:58:31 <ivan> bijan: there was a stronger comment from m'ter for all of these and I tried to break it down into separate concerns
Bijan Parsia: there was a stronger comment from m'ter for all of these and I tried to break it down into separate concerns ←
18:58:53 <ivan> bijan: i want reiterate is that it is not necessarily annotation
Bijan Parsia: i want reiterate is that it is not necessarily annotation ←
18:59:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:59:40 <ivan> ... alternatively in an xml syntax we use xml commenting with a special initial tag like ---AXIOM---, in the m'ter syntax we can use the same approach
... alternatively in an xml syntax we use xml commenting with a special initial tag like ---AXIOM---, in the m'ter syntax we can use the same approach ←
18:59:52 <pfps> q+
18:59:55 <ivan> ... the parsing model should take these into the structural model
... the parsing model should take these into the structural model ←
19:00:09 <ivan> ... this is one solution and answer the objections thus far...
... this is one solution and answer the objections thus far... ←
19:00:29 <ivan> IanH: it would help to have a more specific proposal off line, it is difficult to understand the details
Ian Horrocks: it would help to have a more specific proposal off line, it is difficult to understand the details ←
19:00:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:00:40 <ivan> bijan: if the wg is open to that, i am happy to
Bijan Parsia: if the wg is open to that, i am happy to ←
19:00:41 <IanH> ack sandro
Ian Horrocks: ack sandro ←
19:00:41 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask why not just put the "old stuff" in another document?
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to ask why not just put the "old stuff" in another document? ←
19:00:44 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:00:59 <ivan> sandro: all the solutions i can think of do not work for me
Sandro Hawke: all the solutions i can think of do not work for me ←
19:01:09 <ivan> ... except using another another file
... except using another another file ←
19:01:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:01:32 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:01:32 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
19:01:37 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
19:02:16 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
19:02:16 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:02:17 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
19:02:19 <ivan> schneid: if this is outside the normal set of axioms than my argument is moot, but if it is mapped back into the rdf mapping then it is impossible to handle that with a full reasoner, they do more inferencing not less
Michael Schneider: if this is outside the normal set of axioms than my argument is moot, but if it is mapped back into the rdf mapping then it is impossible to handle that with a full reasoner, they do more inferencing not less ←
19:02:33 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:02:49 <ivan> pfps: a translation to rdf should also be worked out with full reasoning working properly as well
Peter Patel-Schneider: a translation to rdf should also be worked out with full reasoning working properly as well ←
19:03:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:03:20 <ivan> IanH: it might be useful to have a straw poll whether bijan should go and work out a full proposal
Ian Horrocks: it might be useful to have a straw poll whether bijan should go and work out a full proposal ←
19:03:33 <Christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
19:03:50 <Christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
19:03:53 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:04:04 <Christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
19:04:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:04:15 <IanH> ack Christine
Ian Horrocks: ack Christine ←
19:04:15 <sandro> ack Christine
Sandro Hawke: ack Christine ←
19:05:01 <ivan> Christine: a general comment, this seems to be a very specific need, we should weight the benefit between this generic need and keep the spec less complex
Christine Golbreich: a general comment, this seems to be a very specific need, we should weight the benefit between this generic need and keep the spec less complex ←
19:05:14 <sandro> strawpoll: is it likely we'll change OWL2 in some way to provide a solution here, some way to keep axioms around but not accessible to the reasoner?
STRAWPOLL: is it likely we'll change OWL2 in some way to provide a solution here, some way to keep axioms around but not accessible to the reasoner? ←
19:05:21 <ivan> ... bijan can surely propose a solution but the document would become too complex
... bijan can surely propose a solution but the document would become too complex ←
19:05:31 <pfps> -1
19:05:32 <ewallace> +1 on Bijan providing a proposal
Evan Wallace: +1 on Bijan providing a proposal ←
19:05:33 <sandro> -1
Sandro Hawke: -1 ←
19:05:33 <ivan> -1
-1 ←
19:05:37 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
19:05:38 <schneid> -0.9
Michael Schneider: -0.9 ←
19:05:41 <MarkusK_> 0
Markus Krötzsch: 0 ←
19:05:43 <bernardo> 0
19:05:44 <uli> 0
Uli Sattler: 0 ←
19:05:44 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
19:05:47 <msmith> +1
Mike Smith: +1 ←
19:05:51 <IanH> -1
Ian Horrocks: -1 ←
19:05:53 <Christine> lost irc
Christine Golbreich: lost irc ←
19:06:02 <Zhe> 0
19:06:23 <sandro> Christine: 0 or -1
Christine Golbreich: 0 or -1 [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
19:06:25 <ivan> 0 for Christine
0 for Christine ←
19:06:51 <ivan> IanH: apathy or negative seems to carry...
Ian Horrocks: apathy or negative seems to carry... ←
19:07:06 <ivan> bijan: it seems that the wg will not accept it
Bijan Parsia: it seems that the wg will not accept it ←
19:07:27 <ivan> ... i propose to answer to that person that the group cannot properly do it...
... i propose to answer to that person that the group cannot properly do it... ←
19:07:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:08:49 <sandro> PROPOSED: Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case. We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around.
PROPOSED: Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case. We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around. ←
19:08:58 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
19:09:00 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
19:09:01 <ivan> +1
+1 ←
19:09:07 <bernardo> +1
19:09:09 <Zhe> +1
19:09:09 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
19:09:09 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
19:09:10 <ewallace> 0
Evan Wallace: 0 ←
19:09:11 <bijan> 0
Bijan Parsia: 0 ←
19:09:12 <msmith> +!
Mike Smith: +! ←
19:09:13 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
19:09:15 <pfps> +1
19:09:18 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
19:09:23 <bijan> -1
Bijan Parsia: -1 ←
19:09:31 <uli> 0
Uli Sattler: 0 ←
19:10:14 <sandro> Bijan: I'm opposed, but I wont formally object
Bijan Parsia: I'm opposed, but I wont formally object [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
19:10:22 <sandro> RESOLVED: Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case. We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around.
RESOLVED: Re comment BP-1 the WG does not expect to provide any change to OWL2 to support this use case. We hope the commenter is able to find a suitable work-around. ←
19:10:56 <ivan> IanH: one thing i wanted to settle: asking people to take on the job of answering some of the easy cases
Ian Horrocks: one thing i wanted to settle: asking people to take on the job of answering some of the easy cases ←
19:11:02 <ivan> ... to get people work in parallel
... to get people work in parallel ←
19:11:16 <ivan> ... alan and i went through the list with the easy ones
... alan and i went through the list with the easy ones ←
19:12:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:12:44 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:12:44 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
19:12:49 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
19:12:59 <IanH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0006.html
Ian Horrocks: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0006.html ←
19:13:02 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
19:13:02 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
19:13:38 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:14:03 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
19:14:03 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
19:14:08 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:14:46 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:15:28 <ivan> bmotik: we do not expect to resolve for next week, but maybe schneid and me could talk about ms2 at the f2f
Boris Motik: we do not expect to resolve for next week, but maybe schneid and me could talk about ms2 at the f2f ←
19:15:41 <bijan> This is totally editorial and a message saying that is great
Bijan Parsia: This is totally editorial and a message saying that is great ←
19:15:41 <ivan> (scribe gave up)
(scribe gave up) ←
19:15:58 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:15:58 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
19:16:52 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
19:17:00 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:17:04 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
19:17:07 <pfps> the answer is known
Peter Patel-Schneider: the answer is known ←
19:18:10 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:18:10 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
19:18:22 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:18:22 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
19:18:30 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
19:19:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:20:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:20:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:20:36 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:20:36 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
19:20:52 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:21:15 <schneid> schneid: currently, we use the term "lexical value", but OWL 1 and RDF uses the term "lexical form"
Michael Schneider: currently, we use the term "lexical value", but OWL 1 and RDF uses the term "lexical form" [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
19:21:35 <schneid> schneid: in addition, boris pointed out that the XSD spec uses "lexical representation"
Michael Schneider: in addition, boris pointed out that the XSD spec uses "lexical representation" [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
19:21:36 <pfps> yes
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes ←
19:21:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:21:49 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:22:28 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:22:28 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
19:23:03 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:23:03 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
19:23:47 <bijan> I lost track
Bijan Parsia: I lost track ←
19:23:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
19:23:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
19:23:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:24:04 <schneid> schneid: I am still prefering "lexical /form/", since our notion of datatypes is not restricted to XSD datatypes, so it is not mandatory that we take the terminology from XSD
Michael Schneider: I am still prefering "lexical /form/", since our notion of datatypes is not restricted to XSD datatypes, so it is not mandatory that we take the terminology from XSD [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
19:24:04 <ivan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0040.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0040.html ←
19:24:56 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:25:33 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
19:25:33 <pfps> yes
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes ←
19:25:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:25:45 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:26:29 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:26:32 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
19:27:59 <uli> sure
Uli Sattler: sure ←
19:28:40 <pfps> yes
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes ←
19:28:41 <Zakim> -schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid ←
19:29:26 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:29:38 <pfps> :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: :-) ←
19:30:28 <pfps> yes
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes ←
19:31:18 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
19:31:18 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
19:31:30 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:31:41 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
19:31:43 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
19:32:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:32:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:32:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:32:38 <bijan> I have a question about [62]
Bijan Parsia: I have a question about [62] ←
19:32:47 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:32:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:32:54 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
19:32:55 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:32:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:33:04 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:33:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:33:51 <pfps> the Wiki keeps track of diffs - everyone should mark their changes correctly
Peter Patel-Schneider: the Wiki keeps track of diffs - everyone should mark their changes correctly ←
19:33:53 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
19:34:01 <ewallace> me too
Evan Wallace: me too ←
19:34:14 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:34:52 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:35:09 <Zhe> bye
19:35:09 <Zakim> -bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik.a ←
19:35:13 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace ←
19:35:17 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
19:35:20 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK_ ←
19:35:21 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
19:35:24 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
19:35:25 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
19:35:28 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
19:35:30 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
19:35:31 <Zakim> -uli
Zakim IRC Bot: -uli ←
19:35:33 <Zakim> -christine
Zakim IRC Bot: -christine ←
19:35:37 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
19:38:03 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
19:38:04 <Zakim> -IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←
19:38:04 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended ←
19:38:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, bmotik, IanH, bijan, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid, christine, uli, msmith, Zhe, Achille, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, MarkusK_, bmotik, IanH, bijan, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, schneid, christine, uli, msmith, Zhe, Achille, Sandro ←
This revision (#1) generated 2009-02-11 22:20:55 UTC by 'ihorrock2', comments: None