OWL Working Group

Minutes of 05 November 2008

Present
Peter Patel-Schneider Elisa Kendall Rinke Hoekstra Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Ivan Herman Markus Krötzsch Mike Smith Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Alan Ruttenberg Uli Sattler Sandro Hawke Evan Wallace Michael Schneider Zhe Wu Christine Golbreich Harold Solbrig Deborah McGuinness Carsten Lutz Rinke Hoekstra
Regrets
Bijan Parsia Jeff Pan
Scribe
Elisa Kendall
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15) link
  2. To accept minutes from F2F4 Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23 link
  3. To accept pending review actions as complete/done. link
  4. That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them link
  5. To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time link
  6. To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft link
  7. To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide (html only) link
  8. To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft) link
Topics
00:00:00 <scribenick> PRESENT: Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg, uli (muted), Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Michael Schneider , Zhe, Christine, Harold, dlm, Carsten, Rinke
00:00:00 <scribenick> REGRETS: Bijan Parsia, Jeff Pan
17:57:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-owl-irc

17:58:01 <pfps> zakim, who is here?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is here?

17:58:01 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps, I don't know what conference this is

17:58:02 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.11.05/Agenda

Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.11.05/Agenda

17:58:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

17:58:08 <pfps> zakim, this is owlwg

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, this is owlwg

17:58:08 <Zakim> ok, pfps; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pfps; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM

17:58:15 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall

17:58:16 <pfps> zakim, who is here?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is here?

17:58:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall

17:58:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

17:58:55 <Zakim> + +31.20.525.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.525.aaaa

17:59:00 <Rinke> zakim, aaa is me

Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, aaa is me

17:59:00 <Zakim> sorry, Rinke, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Rinke, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'

17:59:06 <Rinke> zakim, aaaa is me

Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, aaaa is me

17:59:07 <Zakim> +Ian_Horrocks

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ian_Horrocks

17:59:07 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it

17:59:21 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

17:59:23 <IanH> zakim, Ian_Horrocks is IanH

Ian Horrocks: zakim, Ian_Horrocks is IanH

17:59:23 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it

17:59:30 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P9 is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P9 is me

17:59:30 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it

17:59:32 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:59:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik

17:59:34 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:59:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

17:59:36 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:59:58 <IanH> ScribeNick: Elisa

(Scribe set to Elisa Kendall)

18:00:31 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:00:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted)

18:00:45 <pfps> rrsagent, make records public

Peter Patel-Schneider: rrsagent, make records public

18:00:49 <Zakim> +Tony

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony

18:00:52 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

18:01:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

18:01:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

18:01:10 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

18:01:26 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

18:01:48 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aabb

18:02:51 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:02:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith

18:02:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

18:03:00 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

18:03:13 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is me

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is me

18:03:13 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it

18:03:48 <Elisa> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

18:04:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:04:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille

18:04:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

18:04:32 <Zakim> +Tony.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony.a

18:04:34 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

18:04:39 <Elisa> Ian: Any agenda amendments?

Ian Horrocks: Any agenda amendments?

18:04:53 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P15 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P15 is me

18:04:53 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it

18:05:01 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me

18:05:01 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

18:05:06 <Zakim> +Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan

18:05:17 <pfps> 15 oct minutes look OK

Peter Patel-Schneider: 15 oct minutes look OK

18:05:18 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

18:05:21 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

18:05:22 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

18:05:26 <alanr> I'd like to have another week to review them

Alan Ruttenberg: I'd like to have another week to review them

18:05:26 <uli> zakim, ??P19 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P19 is me

18:05:26 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it

18:05:33 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15)

PROPOSED: To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15)

18:05:36 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

18:05:36 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

18:06:06 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15)

RESOLVED: To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15)

18:06:14 <pfps> Day 2 needs work - there are problems

Peter Patel-Schneider: Day 2 needs work - there are problems

18:06:25 <pfps> I sent out a message

Peter Patel-Schneider: I sent out a message

18:06:29 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

18:06:37 <schneid> zakim, ??P22 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P22 is me

18:06:37 <Zakim> +schneid; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it

18:06:44 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To accept previous minutes from F2F4 - Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23

PROPOSED: To accept previous minutes from F2F4 - Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23

18:07:07 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:07:07 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:07:16 <Elisa> pfps: I just fixed some minor things in day 1

Peter Patel-Schneider: I just fixed some minor things in day 1

18:07:26 <Elisa> ...otherwise day 1 looks ok

...otherwise day 1 looks ok

18:07:47 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To accept minutes from F2F4 Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23

RESOLVED: To accept minutes from F2F4 Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23

18:08:25 <Elisa> Ian: Agree to postpone Day 2 minutes approval to next week

Ian Horrocks: Agree to postpone Day 2 minutes approval to next week

18:08:42 <Elisa> Subtopic: Action Item Status

1.1. Action Item Status

18:09:02 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aacc

18:09:03 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24

18:09:11 <pfps> pending review actions all look done to me

Peter Patel-Schneider: pending review actions all look done to me

18:09:13 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To accept pending review actions as complete/done.

RESOLVED: To accept pending review actions as complete/done.

18:09:19 <Zhe> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

18:09:19 <Zakim> sorry, Zhe, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Zhe, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

18:09:27 <Elisa> Subtopic: Due and Overdue Actions

1.2. Due and Overdue Actions

18:09:41 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:09:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, Tony.a, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, uli (muted), Sandro,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, Tony.a, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, uli (muted), Sandro,

18:09:45 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), +1.603.897.aacc, ??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), +1.603.897.aacc, ??P24

18:09:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, Christine, Harold, schneid, uli, bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, Christine, Harold, schneid, uli, bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace,

18:09:49 <Zakim> ... sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, trackbot

18:09:52 <alanr> 202 is done given resolution of punning

Alan Ruttenberg: 202 is done given resolution of punning

18:09:56 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aacc is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aacc is me

18:09:56 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it

18:10:09 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:10:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, Tony.a, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, uli (muted), Sandro,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, Tony.a, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, uli (muted), Sandro,

18:10:12 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), Zhe, ??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), Zhe, ??P24

18:10:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, Christine, Harold, schneid, uli, bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, Christine, Harold, schneid, uli, bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace,

18:10:15 <Zakim> ... sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, trackbot

18:10:19 <Zhe> zakim, muteme

Zhe Wu: zakim, muteme

18:10:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'muteme', Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'muteme', Zhe

18:10:24 <Zhe> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

18:10:24 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted

18:10:46 <uli> zakim, ??P24 is Christine

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P24 is Christine

18:10:46 <Zakim> +Christine; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Christine; got it

18:11:03 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, unmute me

18:11:03 <Zakim> Zhe should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should no longer be muted

18:12:05 <Elisa> Zhe: Regarding action 224, the action with respect to the implementation is moot, not much to do there

Zhe Wu: Regarding ACTION-224, the action with respect to the implementation is moot, not much to do there

18:12:18 <Elisa> ... I felt obligated to do something so I did a review

... I felt obligated to do something so I did a review

18:12:43 <Elisa> Christine: most of the TBDs have been done; what might be useful is to have a review of the last version

Christine Golbreich: most of the TBDs have been done; what might be useful is to have a review of the last version

18:12:49 <ewallace> I would call Zhe's task done

Evan Wallace: I would call Zhe's task done

18:13:52 <Elisa> Ian: there is a similar action on Achille - action 226

Ian Horrocks: there is a similar action on Achille - ACTION-226

18:13:55 <Elisa> Achille: this should be deferred to next week, revised in tracker, but I could review the document rather than add more on the implementation section

Achille Fokoue: this should be deferred to next week, revised in tracker, but I could review the document rather than add more on the implementation section

18:14:15 <Elisa> Christine: I think it's the same - the implementation part is mostly done

Christine Golbreich: I think it's the same - the implementation part is mostly done

18:14:37 <Elisa> Ian: we can discuss the document status later in the agenda - could ask later

Ian Horrocks: we can discuss the document status later in the agenda - could ask later

18:15:10 <Elisa> Action 224 and 226 are done

ACTION-224 and 226 are done

18:15:10 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 224

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 224

18:15:18 <sandro> action-224 closed

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-224 closed

18:15:18 <trackbot> ACTION-224 Fill TBD implementation perspective in the Req before F2F closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-224 Fill TBD implementation perspective in the Req before F2F closed

18:15:22 <sandro> action-226 closed

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-226 closed

18:15:22 <trackbot> ACTION-226 Fill TBD implementation perspective in the Req before F2F closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-226 Fill TBD implementation perspective in the Req before F2F closed

18:15:48 <sandro> action-227?

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-227?

18:15:48 <trackbot> ACTION-227 -- Alan Ruttenberg to email to Elisa and other interesyed person about metamodel -- due 2008-10-08 -- CLOSED

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-227 -- Alan Ruttenberg to email to Elisa and other interesyed person about metamodel -- due 2008-10-08 -- CLOSED

18:15:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/227

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/227

18:15:49 <pfps> I think that that has been done -

Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that that has been done -

18:15:56 <Elisa> Regarding action 217 on Jie

Regarding ACTION-217 on Jie

18:16:16 <Elisa> action-217 closed

ACTION-217 closed

18:16:16 <trackbot> ACTION-217 Get to the RIF to ensure that RDF changes are done properly closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-217 Get to the RIF to ensure that RDF changes are done properly closed

18:16:38 <Elisa> action-202 closed

ACTION-202 closed

18:16:38 <trackbot> ACTION-202 Have another try at punning proposal in the light of discussion with peter and come up with test cases closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-202 Have another try at punning proposal in the light of discussion with peter and come up with test cases closed

18:16:59 <Elisa> action-240 closed

ACTION-240 closed

18:16:59 <trackbot> ACTION-240 Show a format for the use cases that he likes, making clear what it is and does. closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-240 Show a format for the use cases that he likes, making clear what it is and does. closed

18:18:05 <Elisa> Markus: is still discussing the test case issues with RIF member, but the action (239) is postponed for one week

Markus Krötzsch: is still discussing the test case issues with RIF member, but the action (239) is postponed for one week

18:18:19 <Elisa> action-239 closed

ACTION-239 closed

18:18:19 <trackbot> ACTION-239 Align OWL test case suite with RIF efforts, and to make required editorial changes to test part of "Conformance and Test Cases" closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-239 Align OWL test case suite with RIF efforts, and to make required editorial changes to test part of "Conformance and Test Cases" closed

18:18:35 <Elisa> Topic: Reviewing and Publishing

2. Reviewing and Publishing

18:18:36 <Elisa> Subtopic: Preparations for Last Call

2.1. Preparations for Last Call

18:19:03 <pfps> I put some "DONE" & "MOSTLY DONE" for the stuff that I did

Peter Patel-Schneider: I put some "DONE" &amp; "MOSTLY DONE" for the stuff that I did

18:19:22 <Elisa> Ian: I created a Last Call Check List to assist editors in keeping track of updates required after the F2F (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Last_Call_Check_List)

Ian Horrocks: I created a Last Call Check List to assist editors in keeping track of updates required after the F2F (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Last_Call_Check_List)

18:19:30 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:19:30 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:19:34 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:19:40 <Elisa> ... the deadline for revisions is not until next week

... the deadline for revisions is not until next week

18:19:53 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:19:53 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:20:00 <Elisa> Boris: I hope to have them finished next week, but the deadline is two weeks from now

Boris Motik: I hope to have them finished next week, but the deadline is two weeks from now

18:20:13 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Last_Call_Check_List

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Last_Call_Check_List

18:20:18 <Elisa> Ian: progress is being made, no point to going through the list point by point

Ian Horrocks: progress is being made, no point to going through the list point by point

18:20:30 <Elisa> ... there are a few items that might be clarified

... there are a few items that might be clarified

18:20:38 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:20:41 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:20:41 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:20:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:20:44 <pfps> let the ... freeze in the dark :-)

Peter Patel-Schneider: let the ... freeze in the dark :-)

18:20:45 <Elisa> ... one is the problem Michael pointed out regarding IE

... one is the problem Michael pointed out regarding IE

18:20:48 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:21:12 <Elisa> Boris: my suggestion is we do nothing - there are two problems (1) IE implements the style sheet incorrectly, and

Boris Motik: my suggestion is we do nothing - there are two problems (1) IE implements the style sheet incorrectly, and

18:21:28 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:21:32 <Elisa> (2) some of the XML entities don't show correctly

(2) some of the XML entities don't show correctly

18:21:43 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:21:43 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

18:21:46 <Elisa> ... this may be partly due to fonts, but don't know what to do there

... this may be partly due to fonts, but don't know what to do there

18:21:48 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

18:22:29 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:22:33 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:22:35 <Elisa> Michael: I probably agree with Boris, but Bijan came up with script that checks for version and changes rendering.

Michael Schneider: I probably agree with Boris, but Bijan came up with script that checks for version and changes rendering.

18:22:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:22:58 <Elisa> ... This is really hack-y, and if IE 8 fixes it, we should not worry about it

... This is really hack-y, and if IE 8 fixes it, we should not worry about it

18:23:00 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:23:02 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:23:02 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:23:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:23:34 <Elisa> Ivan: I was wondering if directly using unicode chars would work

Ivan Herman: I was wondering if directly using unicode chars would work

18:23:38 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:23:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:23:44 <schneid> zakim,unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim,unmute me

18:23:44 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

18:23:49 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

18:24:07 <Elisa> Michael: I answered this mail, and it's the same problem -- I checked it and had the same problem with entities

Michael Schneider: I answered this mail, and it's the same problem -- I checked it and had the same problem with entities

18:24:09 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:24:09 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:24:23 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:24:27 <pfps> +1 to doing nothing :-)

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to doing nothing :-)

18:24:35 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:24:37 <Elisa> Ian: can we decide not to do anything about this, since it is not unique to us, and hopefully Microsoft will fix it

Ian Horrocks: can we decide not to do anything about this, since it is not unique to us, and hopefully Microsoft will fix it

18:24:39 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:24:42 <schneid> schneid: I had the same problem with unicode characters as with HTML entities

Michael Schneider: I had the same problem with unicode characters as with HTML entities [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

18:24:45 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:24:45 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:24:58 <schneid> +1 to PDF versions

Michael Schneider: +1 to PDF versions

18:25:07 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

18:25:11 <Elisa> Ivan: we should also provide pdf or some similar versions of the documents, as an alternative, knowing how many people

Ivan Herman: we should also provide pdf or some similar versions of the documents, as an alternative, knowing how many people

18:25:16 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:25:23 <Elisa> ... are using IE -- so that we don't leave them out

... are using IE -- so that we don't leave them out

18:25:25 <pfps> +1 to *us* doing nothing

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to *us* doing nothing

18:25:38 <Elisa> Ian: is there any significant over head in producting the pdf?

Ian Horrocks: is there any significant over head in producting the pdf?

18:25:46 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:25:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:25:53 <bmotik> Zakim, unm,ute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unm,ute me

18:25:53 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unm,ute me', bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'unm,ute me', bmotik

18:25:56 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:25:56 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:25:57 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:25:59 <Elisa> Ivan: there are some acrobat tools that assist, and don't think it would be a major thing to do

Ivan Herman: there are some acrobat tools that assist, and don't think it would be a major thing to do

18:26:24 <Elisa> Boris: if it is just about printing the html, I'm ok, but am adverse to producing an entirely alternate version

Boris Motik: if it is just about printing the html, I'm ok, but am adverse to producing an entirely alternate version

18:26:44 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

18:26:45 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:26:47 <Elisa> Ian: suppose we propose that we make our documents available in pdf for those who have trouble with their browsers

Ian Horrocks: suppose we propose that we make our documents available in pdf for those who have trouble with their browsers

18:26:56 <pfps> who is going to "bell this cat"?

Peter Patel-Schneider: who is going to "bell this cat"?

18:27:25 <Elisa> PROPOSED: we will provide pdf versions of our documents for those who need them

PROPOSED: we will provide pdf versions of our documents for those who need them

18:27:32 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:27:41 <uli> how pretty does this need to be?

Uli Sattler: how pretty does this need to be?

18:28:12 <Zhe> :)

Zhe Wu: :)

18:28:17 <Elisa> Ivan: I'm not concerned with the tools - you can play with the font size to make it look better

Ivan Herman: I'm not concerned with the tools - you can play with the font size to make it look better

18:28:26 <sandro> PrinceXML

Sandro Hawke: PrinceXML

18:28:48 <Elisa> Sandro: Bijan also suggests PrinceXML

Sandro Hawke: Bijan also suggests PrinceXML

18:29:06 <Elisa> Ivan is volunteering to do this - needs to be done before rec

Ivan is volunteering to do this - needs to be done before rec

18:29:21 <Elisa> Ian: we should do this when we produce the documents for last call

Ian Horrocks: we should do this when we produce the documents for last call

18:29:38 <Elisa> Ivan: I'm happy to take the action

Ivan Herman: I'm happy to take the action

18:30:36 <Elisa> PROPOSED: That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them

PROPOSED: That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them

18:30:39 <pfps> +0.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Peter Patel-Schneider: +0.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

18:30:45 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

18:30:47 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

18:30:47 <schneid> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

18:30:48 <Elisa> +1

+1

18:30:49 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

18:30:49 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

18:30:50 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

18:30:52 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

18:30:52 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

18:30:54 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

18:30:54 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

18:30:54 <Christine> +1

Christine Golbreich: +1

18:30:56 <Harold> +1

Harold Solbrig: +1

18:30:59 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

18:31:02 <MarkusK_> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

18:31:18 <ivan> another PDF generating tool: http://www.pdf995.com/

Ivan Herman: another PDF generating tool: http://www.pdf995.com/

18:31:19 <Elisa> RESOLVED: That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them

RESOLVED: That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them

18:31:30 <Elisa> Action: Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them

ACTION: Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them

18:31:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-241 - Will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them [on Ivan Herman - due 2008-11-12].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-241 - Will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them [on Ivan Herman - due 2008-11-12].

18:31:34 <MarkusK_> There is a company offering a free service for transforming wiki page collections to PDF

Markus Krötzsch: There is a company offering a free service for transforming wiki page collections to PDF

18:31:45 <MarkusK_> ... http://pediapress.com/collection/

Markus Krötzsch: ... http://pediapress.com/collection/

18:31:59 <MarkusK_> ... Their business is in print-on-demand, PDF creation should be free

Markus Krötzsch: ... Their business is in print-on-demand, PDF creation should be free

18:32:28 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:32:29 <pfps> I'm up for "nothing"

Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm up for "nothing"

18:32:29 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:32:34 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

18:32:45 <bmotik> Peter, can you send a link to the IRC?

Boris Motik: Peter, can you send a link to the IRC?

18:33:03 <Elisa> Ian: next issue was a survey sent around by pfps on the differences between functional syntax keywords and RDF syntax URIs (see

Ian Horrocks: next issue was a survey sent around by pfps on the differences between functional syntax keywords and RDF syntax URIs (see

18:33:08 <IanH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html

Ian Horrocks: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html

18:33:14 <alanr> ivan: I suggested we normalize to rdf

Ivan Herman: I suggested we normalize to rdf [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

18:33:31 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:33:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:33:32 <Elisa> Alan: I found a few more

Alan Ruttenberg: I found a few more

18:33:42 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:33:45 <Elisa> Ian: suggestion is to change the functional syntax

Ian Horrocks: suggestion is to change the functional syntax

18:34:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:34:22 <Elisa> Boris: we can change exists self to self restriction, but for qualified cardinality we don't want to add to the terminals for this

Boris Motik: we can change exists self to self restriction, but for qualified cardinality we don't want to add to the terminals for this

18:34:35 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:34:45 <Elisa> ... then there is the issue of DisjointClasses - I would leave the difference for this

... then there is the issue of DisjointClasses - I would leave the difference for this

18:34:49 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:34:57 <Elisa> Ian: but there is an issue of backwards compatibility

Ian Horrocks: but there is an issue of backwards compatibility

18:35:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:35:11 <schneid> DataProperty is probably better than owl:datatypeProperty?

Michael Schneider: DataProperty is probably better than owl:datatypeProperty?

18:35:43 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:35:46 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:35:56 <Elisa> Boris: at the level of the structural syntax, we have only DisjointClasses, whereas in the terminals we also have disjointWith ... would prefer to have only DisjointClasses

Boris Motik: at the level of the structural syntax, we have only DisjointClasses, whereas in the terminals we also have disjointWith ... would prefer to have only DisjointClasses

18:36:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:36:21 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:36:26 <Elisa> Ivan: I think there are cases where we should keep the differences, but we should use the same names where possible

Ivan Herman: I think there are cases where we should keep the differences, but we should use the same names where possible

18:36:45 <Elisa> ... we can't change the qualified cardinality, but I don't see why we can't align the others

... we can't change the qualified cardinality, but I don't see why we can't align the others

18:36:46 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:36:57 <Elisa> Ian: it seems we're not that far from agreement here

Ian Horrocks: it seems we're not that far from agreement here

18:37:20 <Elisa> ... it's really a matter of going through the list and deciding in each case what we're going to do with that thing,

... it's really a matter of going through the list and deciding in each case what we're going to do with that thing,

18:37:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:37:28 <Elisa> ... rather than going through the whole list

... rather than going through the whole list

18:37:53 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:38:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:38:09 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:38:12 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik

18:38:14 <Elisa> Boris: I would do one or two things in terms of what's in the list ... I would not change much except for exisits self

Boris Motik: I would do one or two things in terms of what's in the list ... I would not change much except for exisits self

18:38:18 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

18:39:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:39:08 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:39:16 <Elisa> Alan: in the case where we've introduced something in OWL 2 in both the functional and RDF syntax, we can certainly make a proposal there, but if there are backward compatibility issues then we'll have to deal with that

Alan Ruttenberg: in the case where we've introduced something in OWL 2 in both the functional and RDF syntax, we can certainly make a proposal there, but if there are backward compatibility issues then we'll have to deal with that

18:39:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:40:04 <Elisa> Ivan: I don't buy the argument that capitalization has to be different in the functional syntax, as it makes life difficult for those who have to go back and forth between the RDF and

Ivan Herman: I don't buy the argument that capitalization has to be different in the functional syntax, as it makes life difficult for those who have to go back and forth between the RDF and

18:40:13 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/AligningSyntaxKeywords

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/AligningSyntaxKeywords

18:40:14 <Elisa> ... functional syntax

... functional syntax

18:40:19 <schneid> in FS, these are /all/ functions, with different arity. in RDF, there is a clear distinction between classes (capital) and properties (non-capital)

Michael Schneider: in FS, these are /all/ functions, with different arity. in RDF, there is a clear distinction between classes (capital) and properties (non-capital)

18:40:30 <Elisa> ... the RDF should take precedence if the only difference is capitalizatoin

... the RDF should take precedence if the only difference is capitalizatoin

18:41:05 <alanr> I can

Alan Ruttenberg: I can

18:41:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:41:07 <Elisa> Ian: we should take this offline regarding what should change and not change and then come back with something more concrete

Ian Horrocks: we should take this offline regarding what should change and not change and then come back with something more concrete

18:41:21 <schneid> one does not really see this distinction with the FS glasses on

Michael Schneider: one does not really see this distinction with the FS glasses on

18:41:27 <Elisa> ... who will take the job of making a proposal from Peter's email

... who will take the job of making a proposal from Peter's email

18:41:34 <Elisa> Alan: I'll take it on

Alan Ruttenberg: I'll take it on

18:41:53 <schneid> I would be confused by different capitalization in FS

Michael Schneider: I would be confused by different capitalization in FS

18:41:55 <Elisa> Ian: if you would talk with Boris and Ivan on this, to get closer to agreement before coming back to us

Ian Horrocks: if you would talk with Boris and Ivan on this, to get closer to agreement before coming back to us

18:42:45 <Elisa> Action: Alan will make a proposal regarding naming alignment between the functional syntax and RDF syntax based on the summary from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html

ACTION: Alan will make a proposal regarding naming alignment between the functional syntax and RDF syntax based on the summary from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html

18:42:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-242 - Will make a proposal regarding naming alignment between the functional syntax and RDF syntax based on the summary from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-11-12].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-242 - Will make a proposal regarding naming alignment between the functional syntax and RDF syntax based on the summary from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-11-12].

18:43:01 <MarkusK_> q+

Markus Krötzsch: q+

18:43:09 <MarkusK_> http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/

Markus Krötzsch: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/

18:43:22 <Elisa> Ian: last item is the adding test cases issue - in addition to the question of the web site Markus set up, there is the issue of what we are going to do

Ian Horrocks: last item is the adding test cases issue - in addition to the question of the web site Markus set up, there is the issue of what we are going to do

18:43:30 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:43:33 <Elisa> ... in the test cases and conformance document

... in the test cases and conformance document

18:43:38 <IanH> ack MarkusK_

Ian Horrocks: ack MarkusK_

18:43:46 <Elisa> Markus: the web site is not officially announced yet;

Markus Krötzsch: the web site is not officially announced yet;

18:44:13 <Elisa> ... we might still have changes in the schema we are going to use for the test cases, so a good time to watch this would be after next week

... we might still have changes in the schema we are going to use for the test cases, so a good time to watch this would be after next week

18:44:38 <Elisa> Ian: about the web site - the thing I would like to get clarity about is the test cases document itself -- are we going to have

Ian Horrocks: about the web site - the thing I would like to get clarity about is the test cases document itself -- are we going to have

18:44:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:44:45 <MarkusK_> q+

Markus Krötzsch: q+

18:44:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:44:53 <Elisa> ... pointers to each test case, to a place where the test cases live?

... pointers to each test case, to a place where the test cases live?

18:44:56 <MarkusK_> q-

Markus Krötzsch: q-

18:45:15 <Elisa> Alan: I think it should be to where the test cases live - I'll offer a strawman  on that

Alan Ruttenberg: I think it should be to where the test cases live - I'll offer a strawman on that

18:45:23 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

18:45:31 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

18:45:32 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

18:45:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:45:43 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:45:53 <Elisa> Ian: a pointer would make this more extensible in the documents

Ian Horrocks: a pointer would make this more extensible in the documents

18:46:07 <MarkusK_> Markus: (earlier) I am still waiting for W3C to agree on a license policy for the publicly collected test cases

Markus Krötzsch: (earlier) I am still waiting for W3C to agree on a license policy for the publicly collected test cases [ Scribe Assist by Markus Krötzsch ]

18:46:10 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:46:18 <Elisa> Michael: I agree, but we need to have a way to say which tests we've agreed on, not just any test people add,

Michael Schneider: I agree, but we need to have a way to say which tests we've agreed on, not just any test people add,

18:46:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:46:24 <IanH> ack sandro

Ian Horrocks: ack sandro

18:46:27 <alanr> q+ to say in conformance doc how we tell the difference

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say in conformance doc how we tell the difference

18:46:28 <Elisa> ... so we need a mechanism to agree on this

... so we need a mechanism to agree on this

18:47:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:47:05 <Elisa> Sandro: we need a way to lend some weight to that approval in the documents, which have been approved by the working group

Sandro Hawke: we need a way to lend some weight to that approval in the documents, which have been approved by the working group

18:47:06 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

18:47:06 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to say in conformance doc how we tell the difference

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to say in conformance doc how we tell the difference

18:47:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:47:28 <Elisa> Alan: we should document this in the conformance document - we should say how to tell which are approved in the conformance document

Alan Ruttenberg: we should document this in the conformance document - we should say how to tell which are approved in the conformance document

18:47:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:47:49 <MarkusK_> +1 to highlight approved tests, while keeping an external site for collecting more tests after the WG

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to highlight approved tests, while keeping an external site for collecting more tests after the WG

18:47:49 <Elisa> Ian: we could have two completely separate sets of tests, where the extra set is only informative

Ian Horrocks: we could have two completely separate sets of tests, where the extra set is only informative

18:48:27 <Elisa> ... we need to distinguish which are normative and which are informative, so there are a couple of ways to do this

... we need to distinguish which are normative and which are informative, so there are a couple of ways to do this

18:48:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:48:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:48:43 <MarkusK_> q+

Markus Krötzsch: q+

18:49:03 <Elisa> ... mark those that are normative, and put them in the document, or point to two separate places, with one set as normative

... mark those that are normative, and put them in the document, or point to two separate places, with one set as normative

18:49:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:49:42 <Elisa> Markus: we should keep them separate, with a set that are normative called out explicitly, but continue to collect the non-normative ones

Markus Krötzsch: we should keep them separate, with a set that are normative called out explicitly, but continue to collect the non-normative ones

18:49:55 <IanH> ack MarkusK_

Ian Horrocks: ack MarkusK_

18:50:07 <Elisa> Ian: it's a good idea, but we have to be a little bit careful of what we do from the standards perspective

Ian Horrocks: it's a good idea, but we have to be a little bit careful of what we do from the standards perspective

18:50:31 <schneid> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:50:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:50:45 <Elisa> ... so (1) the document contains a pointer to where the test cases live, and (2) the document also contains a pointer to a second set of tests that continue to grow as people add to them

... so (1) the document contains a pointer to where the test cases live, and (2) the document also contains a pointer to a second set of tests that continue to grow as people add to them

18:50:47 <msmith> point to extra tests informatively, at least

Mike Smith: point to extra tests informatively, at least

18:50:47 <schneid> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:50:47 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted

18:50:51 <IanH> ack schneid

Ian Horrocks: ack schneid

18:50:54 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

18:51:07 <MarkusK_> q+

Markus Krötzsch: q+

18:51:12 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:51:16 <Zakim> -Tony.a

Zakim IRC Bot: -Tony.a

18:51:28 <Elisa> schneid: the alternative is that we have a pointer to the normative ones in our document, and at that location we have a pointer to additional informative tests

Michael Schneider: the alternative is that we have a pointer to the normative ones in our document, and at that location we have a pointer to additional informative tests

18:51:30 <schneid> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:51:30 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted

18:51:35 <msmith> q+ on this

Mike Smith: q+ on this

18:51:44 <Elisa> Ivan: do we refer to the test cases when we describe conformance?

Ivan Herman: do we refer to the test cases when we describe conformance?

18:51:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:51:49 <msmith> q-

Mike Smith: q-

18:51:51 <Elisa> Ian: no specific tests are mentioned

Ian Horrocks: no specific tests are mentioned

18:51:53 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

18:51:59 <IanH> ack MarkusK_

Ian Horrocks: ack MarkusK_

18:52:29 <Elisa> Markus:  I prefer to have a link in the document

Markus Krötzsch: I prefer to have a link in the document

18:52:34 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:52:40 <Elisa> Ian: I agree;

Ian Horrocks: I agree;

18:52:58 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

18:53:00 <MarkusK_> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

18:53:02 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

18:53:03 <Elisa> ... there will be two pointers in the document, one to the frozen set and one to the informative growing set

... there will be two pointers in the document, one to the frozen set and one to the informative growing set

18:53:48 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time

PROPOSED: To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time

18:53:59 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

18:53:59 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

18:54:01 <MarkusK_> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

18:54:01 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

18:54:01 <Elisa> +1

+1

18:54:02 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

18:54:04 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

18:54:05 <schneid> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

18:54:06 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

18:54:07 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

18:54:08 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

18:54:11 <sandro> +0

Sandro Hawke: +0

18:54:12 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

18:54:19 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time

RESOLVED: To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time

18:54:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:54:41 <msmith> action msmith to edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text

Mike Smith: action msmith to edit test section of test &amp; conf to include two links and explanatory text

18:54:41 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith

18:54:42 <Elisa> Subtopic: Remaining Documents

2.2. Remaining Documents

18:54:43 <Elisa> Ian: Remaining documents -what to do with them.

Ian Horrocks: Remaining documents -what to do with them.

18:54:53 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:54:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:55:07 <Elisa> Ian: Internationalized String Spec - what should we do with this

Ian Horrocks: Internationalized String Spec - what should we do with this

18:55:22 <msmith> action smith to edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text

Mike Smith: action smith to edit test section of test &amp; conf to include two links and explanatory text

18:55:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-243 - Edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text [on Michael Smith - due 2008-11-12].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-243 - Edit test section of test &amp; conf to include two links and explanatory text [on Michael Smith - due 2008-11-12].

18:55:23 <pfps> I'm happy with the ISS document

Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm happy with the ISS document

18:55:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:55:26 <Zakim> -Tony

Zakim IRC Bot: -Tony

18:55:31 <Elisa> Boris: I had a discussion with Axel from the RIF group, and a decision was going to be made about voting on this

Boris Motik: I had a discussion with Axel from the RIF group, and a decision was going to be made about voting on this

18:55:32 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:55:51 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

18:55:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:55:56 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:55:56 <Elisa> Sandro: this didn't get on the agenda for this week, will be done next Tuesday in RIF, and we can do so on Wednesday

Sandro Hawke: this didn't get on the agenda for this week, will be done next Tuesday in RIF, and we can do so on Wednesday

18:56:06 <Elisa> pfps: why can't we do it now?

Peter Patel-Schneider: why can't we do it now?

18:56:06 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

18:56:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:56:14 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:56:19 <Elisa> Ian: ok - since we are happy with this

Ian Horrocks: ok - since we are happy with this

18:56:37 <Elisa> Boris: there is one open issue from Jeremy Carroll

Boris Motik: there is one open issue from Jeremy Carroll

18:57:03 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft

PROPOSED: To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft

18:57:05 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

18:57:09 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

18:57:11 <Elisa> +1

+1

18:57:13 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

18:57:16 <MarkusK_> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

18:57:20 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

18:57:22 <ewallace> 0

Evan Wallace: 0

18:57:22 <alanr> _1

Alan Ruttenberg: _1

18:57:23 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

18:57:24 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

18:57:25 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

18:57:32 <schneid> should be by institute?

Michael Schneider: should be by institute?

18:57:36 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

18:57:38 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

18:57:41 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:57:41 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

18:57:43 <schneid> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

18:57:45 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

18:57:55 <Christine> +1

Christine Golbreich: +1

18:58:06 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft

RESOLVED: To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft

18:58:12 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer?

18:58:12 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-owl-irc#T18-58-12

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-owl-irc#T18-58-12

18:58:37 <uli> but it isn't ready yet

Uli Sattler: but it isn't ready yet

18:58:41 <uli> indeed

Uli Sattler: indeed

18:58:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:58:51 <Elisa> Ian: the next document is the data range extension, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Data_Range_Extension:_Linear_Equations

Ian Horrocks: the next document is the data range extension, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Data_Range_Extension:_Linear_Equations

18:59:02 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

18:59:02 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted

18:59:08 <Elisa> ... I thought the plan was that it would be ready and be reviewed now?

... I thought the plan was that it would be ready and be reviewed now?

18:59:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:59:38 <Elisa> Uli: we've seen the reviews, the easy issues have been addressed, there are various medium pieces we can take care of by next week

Uli Sattler: we've seen the reviews, the easy issues have been addressed, there are various medium pieces we can take care of by next week

19:00:01 <Elisa> ... the most contentious part is the implementation part, and I'm not sure we can have this by next wek

... the most contentious part is the implementation part, and I'm not sure we can have this by next wek

19:00:16 <Elisa> Ian: what's your expectation of what we will do with this?

Ian Horrocks: what's your expectation of what we will do with this?

19:00:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:00:41 <Elisa> Uli: Producing this as a note would be fine

Uli Sattler: Producing this as a note would be fine

19:00:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:01:07 <Elisa> Ian: so that seems less contentious and makes the time pressure less, as it does not have to be fully formed in time for the last call

Ian Horrocks: so that seems less contentious and makes the time pressure less, as it does not have to be fully formed in time for the last call

19:01:36 <Elisa> Uli: One of the things was that we wanted some feedback through the reviews, and I'm not sure what they are seeing

Uli Sattler: One of the things was that we wanted some feedback through the reviews, and I'm not sure what they are seeing

19:01:57 <Elisa> Ian: so we need to decide what to do about issue 87 and issue 127

Ian Horrocks: so we need to decide what to do about ISSUE-87 and ISSUE-127

19:01:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:01:58 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

19:02:08 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:02:13 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

19:02:15 <Elisa> Uli: publishing a note would only make sense if we leave the hooks in

Uli Sattler: publishing a note would only make sense if we leave the hooks in

19:02:40 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:02:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:02:48 <Elisa> Alan: if we put this as a note we still have the same level of standard for publication, so I would like to put the hooks at risk, in case there is discussion about that

Alan Ruttenberg: if we put this as a note we still have the same level of standard for publication, so I would like to put the hooks at risk, in case there is discussion about that

19:03:22 <Elisa> Boris: why do we have to put them at risk - it is clear that some version of that can be implemented, I would be open to working on this but after last call

Boris Motik: why do we have to put them at risk - it is clear that some version of that can be implemented, I would be open to working on this but after last call

19:03:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:03:30 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:03:35 <Elisa> ... do we really think this won't get in?

... do we really think this won't get in?

19:03:40 <pfps> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q?

19:03:53 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

19:03:54 <Elisa> Alan: I don't think there is much consequence to putting this at risk

Alan Ruttenberg: I don't think there is much consequence to putting this at risk

19:04:17 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

19:04:21 <Elisa> Ian: we put it at risk but if the reviewer comments are addressed and the document is in the same shape as the others then the risk goes away

Ian Horrocks: we put it at risk but if the reviewer comments are addressed and the document is in the same shape as the others then the risk goes away

19:04:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:04:31 <Elisa> Uli: fine with me

Uli Sattler: fine with me

19:04:43 <pfps> maybe the "at risk" status would go away before LC even

Peter Patel-Schneider: maybe the "at risk" status would go away before LC even

19:04:52 <Elisa> Boris: I can't see a scenario where it doesn't happen, but I'm fine with this

Boris Motik: I can't see a scenario where it doesn't happen, but I'm fine with this

19:05:27 <Elisa> Ian: it wasn't clear what we would do about 87 - we would resolve 127 with this at risk thing, but

Ian Horrocks: it wasn't clear what we would do about 87 - we would resolve 127 with this at risk thing, but

19:05:37 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

19:05:37 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

19:06:08 <uli> we can discuss them again

Uli Sattler: we can discuss them again

19:06:08 <Elisa> ... we would resolve 127 by saying that the hooks are at risk given that the document achieves nirvanna(sp?)

... we would resolve 127 by saying that the hooks are at risk given that the document achieves nirvanna(sp?)

19:06:13 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

19:06:18 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:06:29 <Elisa> Alan: if it doesn't achieve nirvanna, then these at risk things would be pulled out ...

Alan Ruttenberg: if it doesn't achieve nirvanna, then these at risk things would be pulled out ...

19:06:43 <Zakim> -Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan

19:07:01 <alanr> phone died caling back in

Alan Ruttenberg: phone died caling back in

19:07:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:07:09 <uli> q+

Uli Sattler: q+

19:07:22 <Elisa> pfps: I'm a little bit worried - it is extraordinarily likely that some n-ary things will be addressed, I'm worried about removing this just because we didn't dot some i

Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm a little bit worried - it is extraordinarily likely that some n-ary things will be addressed, I'm worried about removing this just because we didn't dot some i

19:07:26 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan_Ruttenberg

19:07:52 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

19:07:52 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted

19:08:14 <IanH> ack q?

Ian Horrocks: ack q?

19:08:21 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

19:08:22 <Elisa> Ian: could we soften the issue about 127 to say it would be left open and if the document doesn't come up to snuff we can discuss it again

Ian Horrocks: could we soften the issue about 127 to say it would be left open and if the document doesn't come up to snuff we can discuss it again

19:08:23 <IanH> ack uli

Ian Horrocks: ack uli

19:08:58 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

19:09:00 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

19:09:00 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

19:09:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:09:02 <Elisa> Uli: it is highly unlikely that we don't dot some i regarding all parts of this, and in the worst case we could pull out the more ambitious parts

Uli Sattler: it is highly unlikely that we don't dot some i regarding all parts of this, and in the worst case we could pull out the more ambitious parts

19:09:28 <Elisa> Alan: I would like there to be n-ary, what I don't want is hook for n-ary without actually having n-ary

Alan Ruttenberg: I would like there to be n-ary, what I don't want is hook for n-ary without actually having n-ary

19:09:57 <schneid> and RDF based semantics

Michael Schneider: and RDF based semantics

19:09:58 <Elisa> Ian: so can we agree to leave 127 open for the moment pending the document being completed, and mark it at risk in the syntax and mapping documents

Ian Horrocks: so can we agree to leave 127 open for the moment pending the document being completed, and mark it at risk in the syntax and mapping documents

19:10:30 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

19:10:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:10:35 <Elisa> Ian: so it is not clear to me what to do about 87

Ian Horrocks: so it is not clear to me what to do about 87

19:10:37 <schneid> RDF based semantics also has the "nary hooks"

Michael Schneider: RDF based semantics also has the "nary hooks"

19:10:38 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

19:10:38 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

19:10:56 <Elisa> Alan: I was wondering - there was some issue regarding whether this is a datatype or another kind of literal

Alan Ruttenberg: I was wondering - there was some issue regarding whether this is a datatype or another kind of literal

19:10:57 <uli> a datatype

Uli Sattler: a datatype

19:11:13 <Elisa> Ian: I believe its a datatype

Ian Horrocks: I believe its a datatype

19:11:18 <schneid> rational would be subtype of real

Michael Schneider: rational would be subtype of real

19:11:29 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

19:11:31 <Elisa> Ian: can you represent them all as reals?

Ian Horrocks: can you represent them all as reals?

19:11:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:11:39 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

19:11:41 <pfps> ack pfps

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack pfps

19:11:50 <Elisa> pfps: rationals are a small subset of reals

Peter Patel-Schneider: rationals are a small subset of reals

19:11:55 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

19:11:55 <pfps> "1/3"^^owl:real

Peter Patel-Schneider: "1/3"^^owl:real

19:12:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:12:02 <alanr> we don't have 1/1 for datatypes to lexical forms

Alan Ruttenberg: we don't have 1/1 for datatypes to lexical forms

19:12:07 <Elisa> Michael: there was no way to represent them lexically

Michael Schneider: there was no way to represent them lexically

19:12:22 <pfps> "pi"^^owl:real ??

Peter Patel-Schneider: "pi"^^owl:real ??

19:12:40 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

19:12:44 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

19:12:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:12:51 <Elisa> Ian: so if people implement the n-ary extension, they would also implement this additional datatype

Ian Horrocks: so if people implement the n-ary extension, they would also implement this additional datatype

19:12:53 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

19:12:58 <msmith> msmith: I believe rational is needed as a datatype for lexical, not just value space

Mike Smith: I believe rational is needed as a datatype for lexical, not just value space [ Scribe Assist by Mike Smith ]

19:13:02 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:13:04 <uli> i thought they did

Uli Sattler: i thought they did

19:13:07 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

19:13:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:13:13 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:13:18 <Elisa> Alan: I still don't see the need for the dataset, just the lexical form

Alan Ruttenberg: I still don't see the need for the dataset, just the lexical form

19:13:22 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

19:13:27 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:13:38 <msmith> msmith: I think they can be merged into the linear data range extension

Mike Smith: I think they can be merged into the linear data range extension [ Scribe Assist by Mike Smith ]

19:13:39 <Elisa> Boris: I don't see any danger in adding another datatype

Boris Motik: I don't see any danger in adding another datatype

19:13:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:13:59 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

19:14:04 <Elisa> ... all the existing datatypes would fall under rational and we would have it for symmetry

... all the existing datatypes would fall under rational and we would have it for symmetry

19:14:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:14:38 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:14:42 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

19:14:49 <Elisa> Alan: there was an issue regarding whether an equation was satisfiable over rationals vs. satisfiable over reals ... does this add an issue for reasoners

Alan Ruttenberg: there was an issue regarding whether an equation was satisfiable over rationals vs. satisfiable over reals ... does this add an issue for reasoners

19:15:09 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:15:14 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:15:22 <Elisa> Boris: I don't really see this - we would be no worse off if we have it

Boris Motik: I don't really see this - we would be no worse off if we have it

19:15:39 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:15:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:15:43 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

19:15:43 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

19:15:45 <Elisa> Ian: do we want to add the lexical form? if the answer to that is no, then there is no need to add the datatype

Ian Horrocks: do we want to add the lexical form? if the answer to that is no, then there is no need to add the datatype

19:15:54 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:16:05 <Elisa> ... we could do what Mike suggested and make it part of the extension

... we could do what Mike suggested and make it part of the extension

19:16:46 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

19:16:48 <Elisa> Boris: I don't see a problem, except that this is something they should have done in XML schema ...

Boris Motik: I don't see a problem, except that this is something they should have done in XML schema ...

19:17:10 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

19:17:21 <Elisa> Michael: a number of the use cases Bijan had were to simply be able to write 1/3

Michael Schneider: a number of the use cases Bijan had were to simply be able to write 1/3

19:17:26 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:17:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:17:45 <Elisa> Ian: we're all agreed that we should at least have the lexical form

Ian Horrocks: we're all agreed that we should at least have the lexical form

19:17:46 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:17:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:18:00 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

19:18:14 <msmith> +1 to desire for symmetry

Mike Smith: +1 to desire for symmetry

19:18:18 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:18:21 <Elisa> Boris: I'm against just adding it as a lexical form and not adding the corresponding datatype - I would put these together, and don't see any problems with having it there

Boris Motik: I'm against just adding it as a lexical form and not adding the corresponding datatype - I would put these together, and don't see any problems with having it there

19:18:22 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

19:18:27 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:18:38 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

19:19:02 <Elisa> Alan: every integer literal is a real as well, so I would just look at the lexical for rational as another way of specifying real ... perhaps this just needs to be talked through a bit more

Alan Ruttenberg: every integer literal is a real as well, so I would just look at the lexical for rational as another way of specifying real ... perhaps this just needs to be talked through a bit more

19:19:23 <Elisa> Ian:  let's try to push this to next week to come back with a proposal to resolve

Ian Horrocks: let's try to push this to next week to come back with a proposal to resolve

19:19:36 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:20:37 <Elisa> Boris: it is true that every rational data value is an owl real value, but if you look at the structural syntax specification, you have separate datatypes with literals based on datatypes in other cases

Boris Motik: it is true that every rational data value is an owl real value, but if you look at the structural syntax specification, you have separate datatypes with literals based on datatypes in other cases

19:20:39 <msmith> q-

Mike Smith: q-

19:20:46 <msmith> yup

Mike Smith: yup

19:20:52 <Elisa> ... the datatype would allow us to hang the lexical specification off that

... the datatype would allow us to hang the lexical specification off that

19:21:20 <Elisa> Ian: let's come back next week with a proposal via email to resolve this, and we know where we're going with the data range extension

Ian Horrocks: let's come back next week with a proposal via email to resolve this, and we know where we're going with the data range extension

19:21:27 <schneid> just as the interpretation of "1.0"^^xsd:double is an integer, but the literal is not an xsd:integer literal

Michael Schneider: just as the interpretation of "1.0"^^xsd:double is an integer, but the literal is not an xsd:integer literal

19:21:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:21:36 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

19:21:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:21:46 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

19:21:51 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

19:21:53 <Elisa> Ian: Quick Reference Guide - are we ready to publish a first public working draft

Ian Horrocks: Quick Reference Guide - are we ready to publish a first public working draft

19:21:58 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

19:22:06 <Elisa> pfps: I think it's ready

Peter Patel-Schneider: I think it's ready

19:22:09 <Christine> +q

Christine Golbreich: +q

19:22:17 <uli> i reviewed it!

Uli Sattler: i reviewed it!

19:22:19 <ivan> :-)

Ivan Herman: :-)

19:22:41 <uli> why?

Uli Sattler: why?

19:22:44 <ivan> why?

Ivan Herman: why?

19:22:47 <Elisa> Christine: we should cut the examples section at the end ..

Christine Golbreich: we should cut the examples section at the end ..

19:22:49 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

19:22:49 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted

19:22:51 <pfps> no need for FPWD

Peter Patel-Schneider: no need for FPWD

19:22:56 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

19:22:56 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

19:23:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:23:12 <IanH> ack Christine

Ian Horrocks: ack Christine

19:23:29 <Elisa> Christine: because it's not finished, and is redundant with examples in the other documents - it's not a good place for them

Christine Golbreich: because it's not finished, and is redundant with examples in the other documents - it's not a good place for them

19:23:53 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:24:04 <Elisa> Ian: to be fair, I'm not sure quite why the examples are needed there ...

Ian Horrocks: to be fair, I'm not sure quite why the examples are needed there ...

19:24:18 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:25:03 <ewallace> Elisa: I believe that Jie included the examples because his quick ref had examples

Elisa Kendall: I believe that Jie included the examples because his quick ref had examples [ Scribe Assist by Evan Wallace ]

19:25:17 <pfps> I would be OK with the examples being removed, but I don't see them as a problem (at least right now)

Peter Patel-Schneider: I would be OK with the examples being removed, but I don't see them as a problem (at least right now)

19:25:18 <ewallace> ... I am not sure these are required in such a document.

Evan Wallace: ... I am not sure these are required in such a document.

19:25:25 <Elisa> Christine: the document is general on OWL2 and the examples are specific

Christine Golbreich: the document is general on OWL2 and the examples are specific

19:25:52 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

19:26:01 <Elisa> Ian: people seemed to think this document was in reasonable shape, so we could publish it as a FPWD ...

Ian Horrocks: people seemed to think this document was in reasonable shape, so we could publish it as a FPWD ...

19:26:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:26:15 <Elisa> Christine: I think we should get rid of it and then publish it

Christine Golbreich: I think we should get rid of it and then publish it

19:26:16 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:26:17 <uli> q+

Uli Sattler: q+

19:26:19 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan

19:26:25 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe

19:26:44 <Elisa> Ivan: having had a very quick look at this, there are certain constructions of OWL that are fairly complicated when you put them in RDF

Ivan Herman: having had a very quick look at this, there are certain constructions of OWL that are fairly complicated when you put them in RDF

19:27:00 <Elisa> ... having examples here that focus on those cases is useful for the average reader

... having examples here that focus on those cases is useful for the average reader

19:27:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:27:14 <IanH> ack uli

Ian Horrocks: ack uli

19:27:15 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

19:27:17 <Zakim> uli was not muted, uli

Zakim IRC Bot: uli was not muted, uli

19:27:44 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

19:28:24 <Elisa> Uli: I noticed one thing that I didn't pay attention to before - authors aren't ordered lexically ... should be editors, done separately / permuted

Uli Sattler: I noticed one thing that I didn't pay attention to before - authors aren't ordered lexically ... should be editors, done separately / permuted

19:28:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:28:32 <uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me

19:28:32 <Zakim> uli was not muted, uli

Zakim IRC Bot: uli was not muted, uli

19:28:37 <alanr> q-

Alan Ruttenberg: q-

19:28:38 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me

19:28:39 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

19:29:11 <Elisa> Ian: in spite of questions about the examples section, I'm inclined to move it to FPWD, and put it out for feedback

Ian Horrocks: in spite of questions about the examples section, I'm inclined to move it to FPWD, and put it out for feedback

19:29:52 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide

PROPOSED: To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide

19:29:54 <pfps> +1 for *FPWD* publication

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 for *FPWD* publication

19:30:07 <ewallace> +1 (NIST)

Evan Wallace: +1 (NIST)

19:30:08 <ivan> +1 (W3C)

Ivan Herman: +1 (W3C)

19:30:09 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)

Markus Krötzsch: +1 (FZI)

19:30:11 <Rinke> +1 (UvA)

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 (UvA)

19:30:13 <Elisa> +1 (Sandpiper)

+1 (Sandpiper)

19:30:14 <Achille> +1 (IBM)

Achille Fokoue: +1 (IBM)

19:30:15 <Christine> +1 (UVSQ)

Christine Golbreich: +1 (UVSQ)

19:30:16 <uli> +1 (UoM)

Uli Sattler: +1 (UoM)

19:30:17 <alanr> +1 (Science Commons)

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 (Science Commons)

19:30:17 <pfps> +1 for *FPWD* publication (Alcatel-Lucent)

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 for *FPWD* publication (Alcatel-Lucent)

19:30:21 <msmith> +1 (C&P)

Mike Smith: +1 (C&amp;P)

19:30:22 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)

Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford)

19:30:26 <dlm> +1 (RPI)

Deborah McGuinness: +1 (RPI)

19:30:36 <Zhe> +1 (ORACLE)

Zhe Wu: +1 (ORACLE)

19:30:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:31:06 <pfps> is it a LC document?  If not, then no need

Peter Patel-Schneider: is it a LC document? If not, then no need

19:31:18 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide (html only)

RESOLVED: To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide (html only)

19:31:38 <alanr> I can't

Alan Ruttenberg: I can't

19:31:44 <Achille> I

Achille Fokoue: I

19:31:46 <ewallace> I can

Evan Wallace: I can

19:31:48 <Achille> I can't

Achille Fokoue: I can't

19:31:48 <bmotik> I can

Boris Motik: I can

19:31:50 <ivan> yep

Ivan Herman: yep

19:31:52 <pfps> fine

Peter Patel-Schneider: fine

19:31:54 <uli> I could

Uli Sattler: I could

19:31:56 <Zakim> -Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke

19:32:02 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille

19:32:07 <alanr> ok

Alan Ruttenberg: ok

19:32:14 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan_Ruttenberg

19:32:37 <Elisa> Ian: status of requirements document - quite a bit of work has been done, and we have offers for additional review

Ian Horrocks: status of requirements document - quite a bit of work has been done, and we have offers for additional review

19:32:38 <ewallace> I think it's ready for FPWD pub.

Evan Wallace: I think it's ready for FPWD pub.

19:32:45 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:32:50 <Elisa> ... is this document ready for FPWD?

... is this document ready for FPWD?

19:33:16 <Elisa> Christine: yes, I think it is ready, and there are no contentious issues remaining

Christine Golbreich: yes, I think it is ready, and there are no contentious issues remaining

19:33:16 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:33:24 <Elisa> +1 for FPWD

+1 for FPWD

19:33:37 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

19:33:41 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

19:33:50 <Elisa> Ian: I'm happy to publish it as a FPWD if everyone else is in favor

Ian Horrocks: I'm happy to publish it as a FPWD if everyone else is in favor

19:34:09 <ewallace> Did we tell Alan that no decisions would be made?

Evan Wallace: Did we tell Alan that no decisions would be made?

19:34:09 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

19:34:25 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

19:34:27 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

19:34:32 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft)

PROPOSED: To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft)

19:34:33 <Christine> +1

Christine Golbreich: +1

19:34:35 <pfps> +1 to publish (Alcatel-Lucent) :-)

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to publish (Alcatel-Lucent) :-)

19:34:37 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)

Markus Krötzsch: +1 (FZI)

19:34:54 <Elisa> +1 (Sandpiper)

+1 (Sandpiper)

19:34:58 <ivan> +1 (W3C)

Ivan Herman: +1 (W3C)

19:35:08 <ewallace> +1 (NIST) for FPWD of Reqs/features

Evan Wallace: +1 (NIST) for FPWD of Reqs/features

19:35:13 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft)

RESOLVED: To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft)

19:35:27 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

19:35:59 <Elisa> Ian: there are numerous versions of this document floating around in the wiki -- can we make sure that all of the pointers are redirected to the FPWD?

Ian Horrocks: there are numerous versions of this document floating around in the wiki -- can we make sure that all of the pointers are redirected to the FPWD?

19:36:20 <Elisa> Ian: we should put this document in the standard place in the wiki rather than a redirection.

Ian Horrocks: we should put this document in the standard place in the wiki rather than a redirection.

19:36:23 <MarkusK_> +1 to still make redirects for the old versions

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to still make redirects for the old versions

19:36:48 <sandro> agreed -- redirect from all old URLs

Sandro Hawke: agreed -- redirect from all old URLs

19:37:14 <sandro> new location should be:  http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Requirements or  http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UCR

Sandro Hawke: new location should be: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Requirements or http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UCR

19:37:30 <Elisa> Markus: I want to have redirects at the old places so people with the old versions are not confused.  there should be one version, but redirects from the older locations

Markus Krötzsch: I want to have redirects at the old places so people with the old versions are not confused. there should be one version, but redirects from the older locations

19:37:52 <Elisa> Ian: we can take the details of where it lives offline

Ian Horrocks: we can take the details of where it lives offline

19:38:15 <Elisa> Sandro: which one did we agree to publish?

Sandro Hawke: which one did we agree to publish?

19:38:17 <Christine> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OWL2NewFeatures

Christine Golbreich: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OWL2NewFeatures

19:39:03 <Elisa> Ian: AOB?

Ian Horrocks: AOB?

19:39:14 <uli> bye

Uli Sattler: bye

19:39:14 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

19:39:16 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith

19:39:18 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

19:39:20 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

19:39:21 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider

19:39:22 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau

Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau

19:39:24 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli

19:39:32 <Zakim> -MarkusK_

Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK_

19:39:36 <Zakim> -schneid

Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid

19:39:45 <Zakim> -Christine

Zakim IRC Bot: -Christine

19:42:29 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

19:43:51 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

19:43:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Elisa_Kendall, IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Elisa_Kendall, IanH

19:43:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, Christine, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, ewallace, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, Christine, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, ewallace, sandro, trackbot


This revision (#1) generated 2008-11-06 01:45:56 UTC by 'ekendall', comments: None