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00:00:00 <pfps> PRESENT: bijan, m_schnei, rob, MartinD, bmotik, IanH, Rinke, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, Carsten, msmith, alan_ruttenberg, Evan_Wallace, baojie, JeffP, christine, Achille
Scribe problem: the name 'rob' does not match any of the 53 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Rector Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Carsten Lutz Christine Golbreich Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Diego Calvanese Dimitri Tsarkov Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Matthew Horridge Michael Schneider Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michel Dumontier Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Sean Bechhofer Sebastian Brandt Suzette Stoutenburg Thomas Schneider Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
16:55:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc ←
16:55:29 <bijan> Zakim, this is OWL
Bijan Parsia: Zakim, this is OWL ←
16:55:29 <Zakim> bijan, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be OWL".
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be OWL". ←
16:55:38 <bijan> Zakim, This will be OWLO
Bijan Parsia: Zakim, This will be OWLO ←
16:55:38 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, bijan ←
16:55:40 <bijan> Zakim, This will be OWL
Bijan Parsia: Zakim, This will be OWL ←
16:55:40 <Zakim> ok, bijan; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 55 minutes ago
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, bijan; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 55 minutes ago ←
16:57:43 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started ←
16:57:50 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
16:57:58 <bijan> zakim, ??P0 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P0 is me ←
16:57:58 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
16:58:35 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
16:58:38 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
16:58:39 <Zakim> +bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan ←
16:58:46 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P6 is me
Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P6 is me ←
16:58:46 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it ←
16:58:54 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
16:58:54 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
16:59:27 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
16:59:36 <Rinke> zakim, ??P7 is me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, ??P7 is me ←
16:59:36 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it ←
16:59:38 <Zakim> + +0186528aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aaaa ←
16:59:44 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
16:59:44 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
16:59:46 <Zakim> +MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD ←
16:59:47 <IanH> Thanks!
Ian Horrocks: Thanks! ←
16:59:58 <MartinD> zakim, mute me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me ←
17:00:00 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted ←
17:00:00 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
17:00:11 <m_schnei> thanks from me, too, I thought this would be scribe's job :)
Michael Schneider: thanks from me, too, I thought this would be scribe's job :) ←
17:00:25 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
17:00:30 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P22 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P22 is me ←
17:00:30 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
17:00:32 <Zakim> + +86527aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +86527aabb ←
17:00:36 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:00:36 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:00:49 <rob> Zakim, +0186528aaaa is me.
Unknown rob: Zakim, +0186528aaaa is me. ←
17:00:49 <Zakim> +rob; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +rob; got it ←
17:01:00 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
17:01:02 <rob> Zakim, mute me.
Unknown rob: Zakim, mute me. ←
17:01:02 <Zakim> rob should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should now be muted ←
17:01:06 <Rinke> zakim, ??P28 is me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, ??P28 is me ←
17:01:06 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it ←
17:01:13 <m_schnei> ScribeNick: m_schnei
(Scribe set to Michael Schneider)
17:01:13 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
17:01:13 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
17:01:30 <bijan> (reminder to folks: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html )
Bijan Parsia: (reminder to folks: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html ) ←
17:01:41 <Rinke> RRSAgent, pointer?
Rinke Hoekstra: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
17:01:41 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc#T17-01-41
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc#T17-01-41 ←
17:01:42 <Zakim> +??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33 ←
17:01:42 <IanH> zakim, aabb is me
Ian Horrocks: zakim, aabb is me ←
17:01:45 <Zakim> +IanH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it ←
17:01:50 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P33 is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P33 is me ←
17:01:50 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←
17:01:54 <Zakim> +??P35
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P35 ←
17:01:54 <Rinke> RRSAgent, make records public
Rinke Hoekstra: RRSAgent, make records public ←
17:01:55 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:01:55 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted ←
17:02:09 <m_schnei> ScribeNick: m_schnei
17:02:25 <Rinke> zakim, unmute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, unmute me ←
17:02:25 <Zakim> Rinke should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should no longer be muted ←
17:02:42 <Zakim> + +0493514633aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0493514633aacc ←
17:02:49 <msmith> msmith has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.07.09/Agenda
Michael Smith: msmith has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.07.09/Agenda ←
17:02:51 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
17:02:51 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
17:02:52 <Carsten> zakim, aacc is me
Carsten Lutz: zakim, aacc is me ←
17:02:52 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it ←
17:02:59 <Carsten> zakim, mute me
Carsten Lutz: zakim, mute me ←
17:02:59 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted ←
17:03:00 <Zakim> +msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith ←
17:03:18 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
17:03:20 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:03:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, ??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, ??P37 ←
17:03:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot ←
17:03:34 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:34 <Zakim> sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
17:03:36 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace ←
17:03:46 <Zakim> +baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie ←
17:03:49 <alanr> zakim, ??P37 is me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, ??P37 is me ←
17:03:49 <Zakim> +alanr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←
17:03:54 <alanr> mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: mute me ←
17:03:57 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:57 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should now be muted ←
17:03:59 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:03:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, alanr (muted),
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, alanr (muted), ←
17:04:03 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, baojie ←
17:04:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot ←
17:04:15 <rob> I notice that my half of the datatype discussion is in the public-comments archive, but *not* the wg archive.
Unknown rob: I notice that my half of the datatype discussion is in the public-comments archive, but *not* the wg archive. ←
17:04:47 <alanr> mostly that I am without good connectivity
Alan Ruttenberg: mostly that I am without good connectivity ←
17:04:48 <bijan> Just my usual about 114
Bijan Parsia: Just my usual about 114 ←
17:04:50 <m_schnei> Topic: Agenda Amendments
17:04:57 <m_schnei> IanH: no amendments
Ian Horrocks: no amendments ←
17:05:04 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:05:04 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:05:38 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:05:38 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:05:48 <m_schnei> Bijan: amendment 114 should be discussed and perhaps resolved
Bijan Parsia: amendment 114 should be discussed and perhaps resolved ←
17:05:51 <alanr> objection on behalf of those not here
Alan Ruttenberg: objection on behalf of those not here ←
17:05:59 <m_schnei> IanH: any objections
Ian Horrocks: any objections ←
17:06:03 <alanr> unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: unmute me ←
17:06:06 <bijan> (yes, do nothing)
Bijan Parsia: (yes, do nothing) ←
17:06:18 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:06:18 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should no longer be muted ←
17:07:01 <bijan> This issue is on the agenda
Bijan Parsia: This issue is on the agenda ←
17:07:15 <bijan> I'm fine with waiting
Bijan Parsia: I'm fine with waiting ←
17:07:28 <m_schnei> alanr: time too short
Alan Ruttenberg: time too short ←
17:07:47 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
17:07:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:07:50 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:07:50 <Rinke> let's discuss it today, and propose to resolve next week
Rinke Hoekstra: let's discuss it today, and propose to resolve next week ←
17:08:10 <m_schnei> alanr: 114 is not ready to be resolved
Alan Ruttenberg: 114 is not ready to be resolved ←
17:08:19 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:08:19 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:08:21 <ewallace> +1 to moving up on the list
Evan Wallace: +1 to moving up on the list ←
17:08:28 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is me
Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is me ←
17:08:28 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
17:08:29 <m_schnei> ianh: put it on top of the list, to be discussed at least
Ian Horrocks: put it on top of the list, to be discussed at least ←
17:08:33 <bijan> thanks!
Bijan Parsia: thanks! ←
17:08:41 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
17:08:41 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should now be muted ←
17:08:43 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
17:09:27 <m_schnei> Topic: Actions
17:09:53 <m_schnei> Action 150
17:09:53 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, bad ACTION syntax ←
17:10:05 <JeffP> (I am on IRC only)
Jeff Pan: (I am on IRC only) ←
17:10:10 <m_schnei> Jie: I sent a mail to RIF group
Jie Bao: I sent a mail to RIF group ←
17:10:46 <m_schnei> ... answer suggested to put intern String in RDF namespace
... answer suggested to put intern String in RDF namespace ←
17:10:48 <IanH> Jie: Contacted Axel Polaris and Ivan Herman
Jie Bao: Contacted Axel Polaris and Ivan Herman [ Scribe Assist by Ian Horrocks ] ←
17:11:44 <bmotik> s/Polaris/Polleres
Boris Motik: s/Polaris/Polleres ←
17:12:02 <m_schnei> Jie: someone should have a note (?)
Jie Bao: someone should have a note (?) ←
17:12:09 <m_schnei> s/note/vote
s/note/vote ←
17:12:27 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:12:41 <m_schnei> IanH: summary, things are not quite complete yet, right?
Ian Horrocks: summary, things are not quite complete yet, right? ←
17:12:48 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:12:48 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:12:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:13:09 <m_schnei> bijan: asks whether this is about intern. strings
Bijan Parsia: asks whether this is about intern. strings ←
17:14:04 <bmotik> I believe that disjointness of xsd:string and owl:internationalizedString could be handled as part of ISSUE-126
Boris Motik: I believe that disjointness of xsd:string and owl:internationalizedString could be handled as part of ISSUE-126 ←
17:14:34 <m_schnei> IanH: to jie, is this email on our list?
Ian Horrocks: to jie, is this email on our list? ←
17:14:39 <m_schnei> jie: yes, it is
17:14:39 <bijan> Thanks!
Bijan Parsia: Thanks! ←
17:14:42 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:14:42 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:15:08 <m_schnei> IanH: let's leave this open, because it didn't come to a conclusion
Ian Horrocks: let's leave this open, because it didn't come to a conclusion ←
17:15:17 <m_schnei> Action 156
17:15:17 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, bad ACTION syntax ←
17:15:36 <m_schnei> Topic: Action 156
17:15:47 <m_schnei> Topic: Action 157
17:15:51 <m_schnei> skipped
skipped ←
17:15:52 <alanr> sorry - can't see agenda atm
Alan Ruttenberg: sorry - can't see agenda atm ←
17:15:57 <alanr> or web site.
Alan Ruttenberg: or web site. ←
17:16:03 <alanr> I think postpone
Alan Ruttenberg: I think postpone ←
17:16:11 <IanH> Alan -- we skipped your actions till next week
Ian Horrocks: Alan -- we skipped your actions till next week ←
17:16:13 <m_schnei> Topic: Action 161
17:16:16 <m_schnei> skipped
skipped ←
17:16:17 <alanr> yes, please
Alan Ruttenberg: yes, please ←
17:16:21 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:16:21 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:16:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, alanr (muted),
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, alanr (muted), ←
17:16:27 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, baojie, Achille, ??P11 (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, baojie, Achille, ??P11 (muted) ←
17:16:28 <m_schnei> Topic: Action162
17:16:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, JeffP, christine, Achille, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, JeffP, christine, Achille, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, ←
17:16:32 <Zakim> ... sandro, ewallace, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, ewallace, trackbot ←
17:16:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:16:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:16:41 <m_schnei> IanH: Diego not here, skipped
Ian Horrocks: Diego not here, skipped ←
17:16:51 <m_schnei> Topic: Action165
17:17:00 <ewallace> diego was supposed to do a write up
Evan Wallace: diego was supposed to do a write up ←
17:17:01 <m_schnei> IanH: also Diego, skipped
Ian Horrocks: also Diego, skipped ←
17:17:13 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
17:17:14 <m_schnei> Boris: Hasn't this already been done?
Boris Motik: Hasn't this already been done? ←
17:17:23 <m_schnei> IanH: I did not see any emails
Ian Horrocks: I did not see any emails ←
17:17:35 <m_schnei> Boris: It's already updated in the profiles
Boris Motik: It's already updated in the profiles ←
17:17:35 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:17:35 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:17:50 <bmotik> Yes
Boris Motik: Yes ←
17:17:54 <msmith> yes
Michael Smith: yes ←
17:18:05 <m_schnei> IanH: 161 subsumed by 162
Ian Horrocks: 161 subsumed by 162 ←
17:18:31 <m_schnei> IanH: new member of the WG, which is Rob from Oxford
Ian Horrocks: new member of the WG, which is Rob from Oxford ←
17:18:36 <rob> zakim, unmute me
Unknown rob: zakim, unmute me ←
17:18:36 <Zakim> rob should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should no longer be muted ←
17:18:42 <m_schnei> ... Rob helps with datatypes
... Rob helps with datatypes ←
17:18:47 <m_schnei> Rob: Hi!
Unknown rob: Hi! ←
17:19:02 <rob> zakim, mute me
Unknown rob: zakim, mute me ←
17:19:02 <Zakim> rob should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should now be muted ←
17:19:09 <Rinke> q+ to ask about the minutes of the previous meeting?
Rinke Hoekstra: q+ to ask about the minutes of the previous meeting? ←
17:19:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:19:21 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
17:19:30 <Rinke> zakim, unmute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, unmute me ←
17:19:30 <Zakim> Rinke should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should no longer be muted ←
17:19:32 <alanr> Action 156 needs to be pushed to next week. Haven't heard back from Judy Brewer on Action 157, so push
Alan Ruttenberg: ACTION-156 needs to be pushed to next week. Haven't heard back from Judy Brewer on ACTION-157, so push ←
17:19:32 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 156
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 156 ←
17:19:55 <alanr> "Action 156 needs to be pushed to next week. Haven't heard back from Judy Brewer on Action 157, so push"
Alan Ruttenberg: "ACTION-156 needs to be pushed to next week. Haven't heard back from Judy Brewer on ACTION-157, so push" ←
17:19:56 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
17:19:56 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
17:20:00 <m_schnei> Topic: previous minutes
17:20:22 <m_schnei> Rinke: minutes not yet dealt with
Rinke Hoekstra: minutes not yet dealt with ←
17:20:56 <Rinke> they looked ok to me as well
Rinke Hoekstra: they looked ok to me as well ←
17:21:14 <IanH> Proposed: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-07-02
PROPOSED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-07-02 ←
17:21:17 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:21:20 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:21:22 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:21:32 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:21:37 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
17:21:39 <JeffP> 0 (didn't check yet)
Jeff Pan: 0 (didn't check yet) ←
17:21:39 <IanH> Resolved: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-07-02
RESOLVED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-07-02 ←
17:22:00 <m_schnei> IanH: no go on with issues to be resolved
Ian Horrocks: no go on with issues to be resolved ←
17:22:09 <m_schnei> Topic: ISSUE-5
17:22:46 <m_schnei> IanH: slightly strange issue
Ian Horrocks: slightly strange issue ←
17:22:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:22:59 <alanr> close as withdrawn
Alan Ruttenberg: close as withdrawn ←
17:23:01 <m_schnei> ... Jeremy did not object
... Jeremy did not object ←
17:23:01 <Rinke> q-
Rinke Hoekstra: q- ←
17:23:06 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:23:06 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:23:37 <m_schnei> Bijan: Jeremy sent a mail that HP doen't care anymore
Bijan Parsia: Jeremy sent a mail that HP doen't care anymore ←
17:23:38 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:23:48 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:23:48 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should no longer be muted ←
17:23:56 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:23:56 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:23:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:24:02 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
17:24:13 <m_schnei> alanr: supports close as withdrawn
Alan Ruttenberg: supports close as withdrawn ←
17:24:43 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
17:24:43 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should now be muted ←
17:25:04 <IanH> PROPOSED: close Issue 5 as withdrawn
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-5 as withdrawn ←
17:25:28 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:25:31 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:25:35 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
17:25:39 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:25:39 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:25:43 <baojie> 1
17:25:44 <bijan> +!
Bijan Parsia: +! ←
17:25:46 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:25:47 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
17:25:50 <alanr> I didn't want closing the issue to imply that the technical issues that were raised were solved or rejected. They may be brought up again, if appropriate.
Alan Ruttenberg: I didn't want closing the issue to imply that the technical issues that were raised were solved or rejected. They may be brought up again, if appropriate. ←
17:25:54 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:26:02 <IanH> RESOLVED: close Issue 5 as withdrawn
RESOLVED: close ISSUE-5 as withdrawn ←
17:26:17 <m_schnei> Topic: ISSUE 31
17:26:28 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:26:37 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:26:41 <m_schnei> IanH: seems to me as a left over from early days
Ian Horrocks: seems to me as a left over from early days ←
17:26:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:26:52 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:26:53 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should no longer be muted ←
17:26:54 <m_schnei> ... looks moot to me
... looks moot to me ←
17:27:29 <bmotik> +q
Boris Motik: +q ←
17:27:30 <m_schnei> alanr: we haven't finished this conversation
Alan Ruttenberg: we haven't finished this conversation ←
17:27:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:27:54 <alanr> q-
Alan Ruttenberg: q- ←
17:28:07 <bijan> unmute me
Bijan Parsia: unmute me ←
17:28:10 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:28:10 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:28:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:28:23 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:28:25 <m_schnei> bijan: i sent email
Bijan Parsia: i sent email ←
17:29:12 <msmith> +1 to bijan. this issue has not been mooted. I also sent an email today.
Michael Smith: +1 to bijan. this issue has not been mooted. I also sent an email today. ←
17:29:14 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:29:14 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:29:15 <m_schnei> ... its not mooted just by the fact that we have internal syntax
... its not mooted just by the fact that we have internal syntax ←
17:29:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:29:42 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:29:53 <m_schnei> boris: i don't understand this issue
Boris Motik: i don't understand this issue ←
17:30:02 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:30:02 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:30:06 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:30:27 <msmith> See e.g., http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/#sec-userDefined
Michael Smith: See e.g., http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/#sec-userDefined ←
17:30:29 <bmotik> What are user-defined datatypes?
Boris Motik: What are user-defined datatypes? ←
17:30:34 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:31:00 <m_schnei> bijan: pellet supports working with external xml datatypes
Bijan Parsia: pellet supports working with external xml datatypes ←
17:31:03 <msmith> +q
Michael Smith: +q ←
17:31:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:31:18 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
17:31:34 <msmith> q?
Michael Smith: q? ←
17:31:45 <ewallace> because SWBPD didn't choose
Evan Wallace: because SWBPD didn't choose ←
17:31:47 <m_schnei> IanH: why is this a problem for our WG
Ian Horrocks: why is this a problem for our WG ←
17:31:48 <Achille> I have to leave because of a conflicting meeting
Achille Fokoue: I have to leave because of a conflicting meeting ←
17:32:08 <m_schnei> bijan: old owl wg did not do something about this
Bijan Parsia: old owl wg did not do something about this ←
17:32:11 <msmith> The last query to XML Schema said that XSCD work was ongoing
Michael Smith: The last query to XML Schema said that XSCD work was ongoing ←
17:32:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:32:14 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:32:14 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:32:32 <m_schnei> boris: what is meant by "user defined datatypes"
Boris Motik: what is meant by "user defined datatypes" ←
17:32:34 <msmith> bmotik, see http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/#sec-userDefined
Michael Smith: bmotik, see http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/#sec-userDefined ←
17:32:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:32:41 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:32:50 <alanr> 1+
Alan Ruttenberg: 1+ ←
17:32:55 <rob> Is the set of types open-ended in OWL 1.0? Our proposal is that the set of types is limited in OWL 2...
Unknown rob: Is the set of types open-ended in OWL 1.0? Our proposal is that the set of types is limited in OWL 2... ←
17:32:57 <alanr> oops meant q+
Alan Ruttenberg: oops meant q+ ←
17:32:59 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:33:13 <alanr> +1 to not moot
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to not moot ←
17:33:14 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:33:14 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:33:34 <alanr> q-
Alan Ruttenberg: q- ←
17:33:43 <bijan> I'm happy to resolve it negatively if the wg isn't interested
Bijan Parsia: I'm happy to resolve it negatively if the wg isn't interested ←
17:33:54 <m_schnei> ianh: we are not in agreement at the moment
Ian Horrocks: we are not in agreement at the moment ←
17:34:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:34:09 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
17:34:32 <rob> I think some of these issues might be mooted after discussion of the new datatype proposal, but not until then.
Unknown rob: I think some of these issues might be mooted after discussion of the new datatype proposal, but not until then. ←
17:34:33 <m_schnei> msmith: would be nice to have OWL together with XML Schema
Michael Smith: would be nice to have OWL together with XML Schema ←
17:34:41 <bmotik> Thanks!
Boris Motik: Thanks! ←
17:35:00 <bijan> And they're not being mooted doesn't mean we can't close it
Bijan Parsia: And they're not being mooted doesn't mean we can't close it ←
17:35:00 <m_schnei> IanH: let's take this offline, and defer resolution
Ian Horrocks: let's take this offline, and defer resolution ←
17:35:14 <m_schnei> Topic: Issue-53
17:35:15 <bijan> If the group sentiment is against that, it's fine to close it.
Bijan Parsia: If the group sentiment is against that, it's fine to close it. ←
17:35:41 <m_schnei> IanH: issue raised long time ago, it's rather a usecase
Ian Horrocks: issue raised long time ago, it's rather a usecase ←
17:35:43 <bijan> I can add it ot the n-ary use case page
Bijan Parsia: I can add it ot the n-ary use case page ←
17:35:53 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:35:58 <alanr> +1 to resolve in this way
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to resolve in this way ←
17:36:34 <ewallace> +1 to resolve by adding the use case to the N-ary use case page
Evan Wallace: +1 to resolve by adding the use case to the N-ary use case page ←
17:36:35 <IanH> PROPOSED: Resolve issue-53 by turning it into an nary datatype use case
PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE-53 by turning it into an nary datatype use case ←
17:36:37 <bijan> I've added it ot the n-ary data predicate use case page.
Bijan Parsia: I've added it ot the n-ary data predicate use case page. ←
17:36:41 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:36:42 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:36:45 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:36:45 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:36:48 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
17:36:55 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:36:57 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
17:37:00 <Carsten> +1
Carsten Lutz: +1 ←
17:37:04 <IanH> RESOLVED: Resolve issue-53 by turning it into an nary datatype use case
RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-53 by turning it into an nary datatype use case ←
17:37:31 <m_schnei> Topic: Issue 87
17:37:37 <rob> q+
Unknown rob: q+ ←
17:37:46 <rob> zakim, unmute me
Unknown rob: zakim, unmute me ←
17:37:46 <Zakim> rob should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should no longer be muted ←
17:37:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:37:55 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:37:55 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:37:57 <m_schnei> IanH: rational number datatype should be subsumed below 126
Ian Horrocks: rational number datatype should be subsumed below 126 ←
17:38:01 <alanr> fwiw, i do as well
Alan Ruttenberg: fwiw, i do as well ←
17:38:08 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:38:12 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
17:38:12 <IanH> ack rob
Ian Horrocks: ack rob ←
17:38:13 <rob> zakim, mute me
Unknown rob: zakim, mute me ←
17:38:13 <Zakim> rob should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should now be muted ←
17:38:15 <bmotik> I'd prefer closing the issue.
Boris Motik: I'd prefer closing the issue. ←
17:38:49 <rob> we can decide 126 independently of whether we support rationals
Unknown rob: we can decide 126 independently of whether we support rationals ←
17:38:53 <msmith> msmith: I agree with Rob. It is easier to close smaller issues
Michael Smith: I agree with Rob. It is easier to close smaller issues [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ] ←
17:38:56 <rob> ...thus easier to keep rationals as a separate issue
Unknown rob: ...thus easier to keep rationals as a separate issue ←
17:39:14 <m_schnei> IanH: so let this one open
Ian Horrocks: so let this one open ←
17:39:25 <m_schnei> Topic: Issue 128
17:39:45 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:39:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:39:52 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:39:52 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
17:39:54 <m_schnei> IanH: I have proposed to close this issue
Ian Horrocks: I have proposed to close this issue ←
17:40:02 <msmith> q-
Michael Smith: q- ←
17:40:11 <m_schnei> alanr: this kind of review will be ongoing
Alan Ruttenberg: this kind of review will be ongoing ←
17:40:25 <rob> so we resolve that it would be a good idea?
Unknown rob: so we resolve that it would be a good idea? ←
17:40:27 <bmotik> Sure -- all documents have to de reviewed before publishign.
Boris Motik: Sure -- all documents have to de reviewed before publishign. ←
17:40:36 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:40:36 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
17:40:38 <bmotik> s/publishign/publishing
Boris Motik: s/publishign/publishing ←
17:40:40 <m_schnei> IanH: we did our job for now
Ian Horrocks: we did our job for now ←
17:40:47 <alanr> I prefer to leave it open as a reminder, but not bring it to meeting
Alan Ruttenberg: I prefer to leave it open as a reminder, but not bring it to meeting ←
17:40:53 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:40:57 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
17:40:58 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:41:25 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:41:25 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:41:30 <m_schnei> alanr: though this issue should be a reminder for us to review later
Alan Ruttenberg: though this issue should be a reminder for us to review later ←
17:41:56 <alanr> ok, Boris, that's fine. Will start a wiki page.
Alan Ruttenberg: ok, Boris, that's fine. Will start a wiki page. ←
17:42:01 <bijan> +1 to morale boosting effect of issue list
Bijan Parsia: +1 to morale boosting effect of issue list ←
17:42:04 <bijan> reduction
Bijan Parsia: reduction ←
17:42:12 <ewallace> +1 on moving to QA list per Boris' suggestion
Evan Wallace: +1 on moving to QA list per Boris' suggestion ←
17:42:15 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:42:15 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:42:25 <m_schnei> boris: have a quality list which contains things which have to be done at the end
Boris Motik: have a quality list which contains things which have to be done at the end ←
17:42:44 <IanH> PROPOSED: Issue 128 resolved by moving it to a QA wiki page
PROPOSED: ISSUE-128 resolved by moving it to a QA wiki page ←
17:42:47 <rob> +1
Unknown rob: +1 ←
17:42:48 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:42:50 <bcuencagrau> +1
17:42:54 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:42:56 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:42:56 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:42:56 <Rinke> +1 perfect
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 perfect ←
17:43:06 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:43:07 <IanH> RESOLVED: Issue 128 resolved by moving it to a QA wiki page
RESOLVED: ISSUE-128 resolved by moving it to a QA wiki page ←
17:43:09 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
17:43:33 <m_schnei> IanH: happy about having closed several issues
Ian Horrocks: happy about having closed several issues ←
17:43:46 <m_schnei> Topic: Issue 114 (agenda amendment)
17:44:00 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Draft_QA
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Draft_QA ←
17:44:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:33 <m_schnei> alanr: worries about sensibility of punning
Alan Ruttenberg: worries about sensibility of punning ←
17:44:41 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:48 <m_schnei> ... I would like to understand the usecases
... I would like to understand the usecases ←
17:45:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:45:39 <m_schnei> ... I looked at each possible combination and checked whether this makes sense (eg. class / constant punning)
... I looked at each possible combination and checked whether this makes sense (eg. class / constant punning) ←
17:45:43 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:45:44 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:46:04 <bmotik> -q
Boris Motik: -q ←
17:46:06 <m_schnei> ... does punning make sense in the context of SPARQL queries?
... does punning make sense in the context of SPARQL queries? ←
17:46:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:47:01 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:47:01 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:47:01 <alanr> q-
Alan Ruttenberg: q- ←
17:47:06 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:47:19 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:47:42 <rob> I'm very skeptical of calling any of this "trivial".
Unknown rob: I'm very skeptical of calling any of this "trivial". ←
17:47:43 <m_schnei> bijan: given that all other forms of punning are in Full and easy to implement, we can keep it in
Bijan Parsia: given that all other forms of punning are in Full and easy to implement, we can keep it in ←
17:47:59 <rob> Rationale -- explaining it to users will be hard.
Unknown rob: Rationale -- explaining it to users will be hard. ←
17:48:07 <alanr> -1 to perversions in the language
Alan Ruttenberg: -1 to perversions in the language ←
17:48:10 <rob> Unless we have a simple conceptualization.
Unknown rob: Unless we have a simple conceptualization. ←
17:48:13 <m_schnei> ... would otherwise create artificial distinction
... would otherwise create artificial distinction ←
17:48:15 <alanr> gives us a bad name
Alan Ruttenberg: gives us a bad name ←
17:48:27 <rob> Not all OWL-DL tools.
Unknown rob: Not all OWL-DL tools. ←
17:48:29 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:48:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:48:42 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:49:00 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:49:00 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:49:04 <m_schnei> ... we should put it in, and give best practice notes if some form turns out to be harmful
... we should put it in, and give best practice notes if some form turns out to be harmful ←
17:49:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:49:19 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:49:41 <m_schnei> boris: what is the problem, what does it mean that a form of punning does not make sense?
Boris Motik: what is the problem, what does it mean that a form of punning does not make sense? ←
17:50:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:50:07 <MarkusK> +1 to Boris: punning is no semantic problem
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Boris: punning is no semantic problem ←
17:50:15 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
17:50:20 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:50:28 <m_schnei> ... we only dropped property/property punning because of RDF serialization problems
... we only dropped property/property punning because of RDF serialization problems ←
17:50:44 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:50:50 <m_schnei> alanr: there were also other problems
Alan Ruttenberg: there were also other problems ←
17:51:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:51:20 <m_schnei> ... we are a Semantic Web working group
... we are a Semantic Web working group ←
17:51:31 <m_schnei> ... have to take the usecases into account
... have to take the usecases into account ←
17:51:47 <m_schnei> Bijan: if you don't like a certain form of punning, don't use it
Bijan Parsia: if you don't like a certain form of punning, don't use it ←
17:51:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:51:58 <m_schnei> s/Bijan/Boris
s/Bijan/Boris ←
17:52:08 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:52:34 <bmotik> bmotik: What could go wrong with different types of punning?
Boris Motik: What could go wrong with different types of punning? [ Scribe Assist by Boris Motik ] ←
17:52:51 <m_schnei> Bijan: Why should wg spend so much time on this point, if there is only a single member org against
Bijan Parsia: Why should wg spend so much time on this point, if there is only a single member org against ←
17:52:56 <bmotik> bmotik: What types of punning do you consider really bad?
Boris Motik: What types of punning do you consider really bad? [ Scribe Assist by Boris Motik ] ←
17:53:12 <rob> My concerns would be addressed by some good example of usage that could be used as the basis for some documentation.
Unknown rob: My concerns would be addressed by some good example of usage that could be used as the basis for some documentation. ←
17:53:24 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
17:53:33 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:53:33 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:53:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:53:52 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:53:57 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
17:53:58 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:54:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:54:09 <rob> q+
Unknown rob: q+ ←
17:54:11 <m_schnei> alanr: what goes wrong is that things can be done which are nonsense
Alan Ruttenberg: what goes wrong is that things can be done which are nonsense ←
17:54:26 <m_schnei> ... general question is, what is a feature for
... general question is, what is a feature for ←
17:54:38 <bijan> I didn't speak for them all
Bijan Parsia: I didn't speak for them all ←
17:54:41 <bijan> I made a prediction
Bijan Parsia: I made a prediction ←
17:55:06 <IanH> You are breaking up very badly!
Ian Horrocks: You are breaking up very badly! ←
17:55:09 <bmotik> Alan, we can't hear you at all
Boris Motik: Alan, we can't hear you at all ←
17:55:19 <Zakim> -alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr ←
17:55:29 <rob> zakim, unmute me
Unknown rob: zakim, unmute me ←
17:55:29 <Zakim> rob should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should no longer be muted ←
17:55:40 <alanr> hello
Alan Ruttenberg: hello ←
17:55:47 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:55:47 <Zakim> sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
17:56:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:56:34 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
17:56:42 <alanr> zakim, ??P1 is me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
17:56:42 <Zakim> +alanr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←
17:57:14 <alanr> ok - that was said in the issue
Alan Ruttenberg: ok - that was said in the issue ←
17:57:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:57:21 <alanr> Thus, the same name can be used
Alan Ruttenberg: Thus, the same name can be used ←
17:57:21 <alanr> in an ontology to denote a class, a datatype, a property
Alan Ruttenberg: in an ontology to denote a class, a datatype, a property ←
17:57:21 <alanr> (object or data), an individual, and a constant
Alan Ruttenberg: (object or data), an individual, and a constant ←
17:57:24 <bmotik> I agree with michael here
Boris Motik: I agree with michael here ←
17:57:27 <bmotik> completely
Boris Motik: completely ←
17:57:29 <alanr> good.
Alan Ruttenberg: good. ←
17:57:31 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:57:38 <bijan> Yep. It's syntactically impossible, yes?
Bijan Parsia: Yep. It's syntactically impossible, yes? ←
17:57:54 <bijan> Spelt differntly
Bijan Parsia: Spelt differntly ←
17:58:00 <bijan> Pun requries same spelling
Bijan Parsia: Pun requries same spelling ←
17:58:08 <alanr> Looks like a mistake in the issue submission
Alan Ruttenberg: Looks like a mistake in the issue submission ←
17:58:14 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:59:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:59:06 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:59:13 <alanr> class/properties has no interesting inference
Alan Ruttenberg: class/properties has no interesting inference ←
18:00:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:00:20 <alanr> Actually, perhaps this approach would work over email.
Alan Ruttenberg: Actually, perhaps this approach would work over email. ←
18:00:30 <m_schnei> m_schnei: (answer to alanr) it is not possible to pun classes and constants, because of different syntax of URIs and constants
Michael Schneider: (answer to alanr) it is not possible to pun classes and constants, because of different syntax of URIs and constants ←
18:00:49 <Carsten> Have to leave, buy.
Carsten Lutz: Have to leave, buy. ←
18:00:53 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:00:55 <Carsten> s/buy/bye/
Carsten Lutz: s/buy/bye/ ←
18:00:59 <bijan> Interesting inferences aren't the only issue. It's useful in some cases to keep both forms in the same document instead of syntactically forbidding them.
Bijan Parsia: Interesting inferences aren't the only issue. It's useful in some cases to keep both forms in the same document instead of syntactically forbidding them. ←
18:01:00 <alanr> Would like a definitive list of what it is possible to pun. Could someone email this?
Alan Ruttenberg: Would like a definitive list of what it is possible to pun. Could someone email this? ←
18:01:00 <Zakim> -Carsten
Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten ←
18:01:48 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:01:56 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
18:01:56 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
18:01:57 <rob> zakim, mute me
Unknown rob: zakim, mute me ←
18:01:57 <Zakim> rob should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should now be muted ←
18:02:08 <christine> christine: also would like to se UC stemming from *reaml* appli not eagle
Christine Golbreich: also would like to se UC stemming from *reaml* appli not eagle [ Scribe Assist by Christine Golbreich ] ←
18:02:08 <christine> christine: also would like to se UC stemming from *reaml* appli not eagle
Christine Golbreich: also would like to se UC stemming from *reaml* appli not eagle [ Scribe Assist by Christine Golbreich ] ←
18:02:16 <m_schnei> rob: we can find a usecase for every form of punning
Unknown rob: we can find a usecase for every form of punning ←
18:02:26 <christine> s realm/real
Christine Golbreich: s realm/real ←
18:02:30 <rob> I've been searching the web site and can't find them...
Unknown rob: I've been searching the web site and can't find them... ←
18:02:43 <m_schnei> alanr: would like to see a list of all possible punning combinations
Alan Ruttenberg: would like to see a list of all possible punning combinations ←
18:02:49 <MarkusK> Some use cases for punning are already at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/PropertyPunning#Use_cases; maybe more can be added there
Markus Krötzsch: Some use cases for punning are already at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/PropertyPunning#Use_cases; maybe more can be added there ←
18:02:52 <msmith> IIRC, Evan has stated use cases for class/property more than once
Michael Smith: IIRC, Evan has stated use cases for class/property more than once ←
18:03:12 <m_schnei> alanr: there is no entailment for class property punning
Alan Ruttenberg: there is no entailment for class property punning ←
18:03:15 <MarkusK> Oops, better URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Punning#Use_cases
Markus Krötzsch: Oops, better URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Punning#Use_cases ←
18:03:18 <bijan> rob, the general use case is not to reject intelligible rdf graphs
Bijan Parsia: rob, the general use case is not to reject intelligible rdf graphs ←
18:03:22 <bijan> (my general use cases)
Bijan Parsia: (my general use cases) ←
18:03:42 <rob> true---there are use cases on the site.
Unknown rob: true---there are use cases on the site. ←
18:03:48 <msmith> yes, the class property use cases http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Punning#UML_Association_Class_.28Class_.E2.86.94_ObjectProperty.29
Michael Smith: yes, the class property use cases http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Punning#UML_Association_Class_.28Class_.E2.86.94_ObjectProperty.29 ←
18:04:07 <bmotik> I'm already writing an e-mail
Boris Motik: I'm already writing an e-mail ←
18:04:14 <m_schnei> Ian: let's take this offline, and try to clarify the usecases for all the different kinds of punning
Ian Horrocks: let's take this offline, and try to clarify the usecases for all the different kinds of punning ←
18:04:25 <bijan> Because it's work?
Bijan Parsia: Because it's work? ←
18:04:26 <rob> (as a newbie, I've got to say I see the burden on Alan to identify his problems with the current use cases)
Unknown rob: (as a newbie, I've got to say I see the burden on Alan to identify his problems with the current use cases) ←
18:04:58 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
18:04:58 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
18:05:00 <m_schnei> boris: I will send a mail
Boris Motik: I will send a mail ←
18:05:02 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
18:05:02 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should now be muted ←
18:05:15 <alanr> yes
Alan Ruttenberg: yes ←
18:05:29 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
18:05:29 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should no longer be muted ←
18:05:31 <m_schnei> IanH: alanr, can you take over chair, i have to go
Ian Horrocks: alanr, can you take over chair, i have to go ←
18:05:45 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:05:50 <rob> q-
Unknown rob: q- ←
18:05:56 <m_schnei> alanr: ok, but technical problems might arise
Alan Ruttenberg: ok, but technical problems might arise ←
18:06:11 <Rinke> me? sure
Rinke Hoekstra: me? sure ←
18:06:33 <bijan> BTW, I object to the characterization that my point was a matter of haphazard langauge design. My point is in part about burden a proof: you need a convincing argument to get people to stop supporting such punning
Bijan Parsia: BTW, I object to the characterization that my point was a matter of haphazard langauge design. My point is in part about burden a proof: you need a convincing argument to get people to stop supporting such punning ←
18:06:42 <m_schnei> IanH: Rinke as chair backup if alanr's connection go's down
Ian Horrocks: Rinke as chair backup if alanr's connection go's down ←
18:06:42 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:06:42 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
18:07:40 <m_schnei> Topic: general discussion on rich annotatoins
18:07:57 <alanr> very interested in rich annotations
Alan Ruttenberg: very interested in rich annotations ←
18:08:14 <Rinke> me too
Rinke Hoekstra: me too ←
18:08:17 <m_schnei> bijan: we have this proposal to let people put annotations into a separate domain
Bijan Parsia: we have this proposal to let people put annotations into a separate domain ←
18:08:59 <alanr> q+ to ask whether single annotation space/ serialized as one separate file is a useful extension
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask whether single annotation space/ serialized as one separate file is a useful extension ←
18:09:21 <m_schnei> ... in OWL 1 you could put annotations into a different document to have them separated
... in OWL 1 you could put annotations into a different document to have them separated ←
18:09:51 <alanr> q+ to ask, are you thinking about how such annotations can be queried within SPARQL - or how important this would be
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask, are you thinking about how such annotations can be queried within SPARQL - or how important this would be ←
18:10:30 <alanr> q+ to ask whether current question of annotations on annotations comes for free in this proposal
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask whether current question of annotations on annotations comes for free in this proposal ←
18:10:35 <m_schnei> we get a lot requests to have a DC ontology, but one either have to pun or make those annotations meaningless
we get a lot requests to have a DC ontology, but one either have to pun or make those annotations meaningless ←
18:10:46 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:11:04 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
18:11:04 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask whether single annotation space/ serialized as one separate file is a useful extension and to ask, are you thinking about how such annotations can be
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask whether single annotation space/ serialized as one separate file is a useful extension and to ask, are you thinking about how such annotations can be ←
18:11:08 <Zakim> ... queried within SPARQL - or how important this would be and to ask whether current question of annotations on annotations comes for free in this proposal
Zakim IRC Bot: ... queried within SPARQL - or how important this would be and to ask whether current question of annotations on annotations comes for free in this proposal ←
18:12:10 <m_schnei> alanr: (to bijan) why not have annotations in different documents?
Alan Ruttenberg: (to bijan) why not have annotations in different documents? ←
18:12:56 <m_schnei> bijan: that's a design option, but some people don't like to work with several files
Bijan Parsia: that's a design option, but some people don't like to work with several files ←
18:13:53 <m_schnei> alanr: second question about annotations on annotations
Alan Ruttenberg: second question about annotations on annotations ←
18:14:05 <m_schnei> ... would this be problematic?
... would this be problematic? ←
18:15:19 <m_schnei> bijan: my current syntax doesn't allows this, but it would be an easy extension.
Bijan Parsia: my current syntax doesn't allows this, but it would be an easy extension. ←
18:15:39 <m_schnei> alanr: third question about SPARQL, doesn't look operable there
Alan Ruttenberg: third question about SPARQL, doesn't look operable there ←
18:16:44 <m_schnei> bijan: parser preprocessor should handle this
Bijan Parsia: parser preprocessor should handle this ←
18:17:04 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:18:13 <m_schnei> alanr: strawpoll, whether bijan's approach or simply use multiple documents?
Alan Ruttenberg: strawpoll, whether bijan's approach or simply use multiple documents? ←
18:18:49 <IanH> Got to go -- bye
Ian Horrocks: Got to go -- bye ←
18:18:53 <Zakim> -IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←
18:19:27 <JeffP> bye
18:19:32 <Rinke> q+ to ask about the RDF problem
Rinke Hoekstra: q+ to ask about the RDF problem ←
18:19:38 <Rinke> zakim, unmute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, unmute me ←
18:19:38 <Zakim> Rinke should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should no longer be muted ←
18:19:40 <alanr> ack Rinke
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Rinke ←
18:19:40 <Zakim> Rinke, you wanted to ask about the RDF problem
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke, you wanted to ask about the RDF problem ←
18:20:21 <m_schnei> rinke: question, if there are specific problems with the RDF serialization?
Rinke Hoekstra: question, if there are specific problems with the RDF serialization? ←
18:20:54 <m_schnei> bijan: we use reification, because there is no other support in RDF
Bijan Parsia: we use reification, because there is no other support in RDF ←
18:21:21 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
18:21:21 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
18:22:05 <bijan> I'm indifferent
Bijan Parsia: I'm indifferent ←
18:22:06 <ewallace> Don't understand the question
Evan Wallace: Don't understand the question ←
18:22:08 <m_schnei> alanr: asks for strawpoll whether special annotation layer approach is wanted
Alan Ruttenberg: asks for strawpoll whether special annotation layer approach is wanted ←
18:22:09 <msmith> +0 1 or several files is acceptable if it works
Michael Smith: +0 1 or several files is acceptable if it works ←
18:22:12 <alanr> STRAW Poll: Serializing rich annotation to separate files (for RDF) OK? Not OK?
Alan Ruttenberg: STRAW Poll: Serializing rich annotation to separate files (for RDF) OK? Not OK? ←
18:22:22 <ewallace> multiple files would be o.k.
Evan Wallace: multiple files would be o.k. ←
18:22:26 <alanr> ok
Alan Ruttenberg: ok ←
18:22:33 <Rinke> +0.5 no objection myself
Rinke Hoekstra: +0.5 no objection myself ←
18:22:34 <msmith> ok
Michael Smith: ok ←
18:22:41 <m_schnei> +.025 to separate files (but I did not think about this)
+.025 to separate files (but I did not think about this) ←
18:22:55 <MartinD> +epsilon
Martin Dzbor: +epsilon ←
18:23:02 <JeffP> 0
18:23:07 <baojie> 0
18:23:13 <rob> -0
Unknown rob: -0 ←
18:23:14 <MarkusK> 0 if it works, how would we specify the location of the other file (sound like ontology import ...)?
Markus Krötzsch: 0 if it works, how would we specify the location of the other file (sound like ontology import ...)? ←
18:23:16 <bmotik> 0
Boris Motik: 0 ←
18:23:27 <bcuencagrau> I am not sure if I understand completely
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I am not sure if I understand completely ←
18:23:28 <Rinke> good point MarkusK
Rinke Hoekstra: good point MarkusK ←
18:23:52 <Rinke> perhaps we should have sth. as owl:importAnnotation
Rinke Hoekstra: perhaps we should have sth. as owl:importAnnotation ←
18:24:17 <MartinD> +1 to rinke's idea...
Martin Dzbor: +1 to rinke's idea... ←
18:24:36 <m_schnei> Bijan: suggests to send a proposal
Bijan Parsia: suggests to send a proposal ←
18:24:52 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:25:05 <m_schnei> Topic: n-ary datatypes
18:25:27 <alanr> action: alan to draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files.
ACTION: alan to draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files. ←
18:25:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-166 - Draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files. [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-07-16].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-166 - Draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files. [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-07-16]. ←
18:25:48 <alanr> q+ to ask about progress with mockup in racer
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask about progress with mockup in racer ←
18:25:51 <m_schnei> Bijan: i think there is a point with conformance
Bijan Parsia: i think there is a point with conformance ←
18:26:27 <m_schnei> Bijan: some people want linear equations
Bijan Parsia: some people want linear equations ←
18:26:37 <msmith> Indeed, I'd like to see linear ineq in Pellet
Michael Smith: Indeed, I'd like to see linear ineq in Pellet ←
18:26:52 <alanr> mike, do you have a use case you could document?
Alan Ruttenberg: mike, do you have a use case you could document? ←
18:27:16 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:27:43 <alanr> q-
Alan Ruttenberg: q- ←
18:27:57 <msmith> alanr, I think some of the cases on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/N-ary_Data_predicate_use_case motivate linear inequations
Michael Smith: alanr, I think some of the cases on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/N-ary_Data_predicate_use_case motivate linear inequations ←
18:28:23 <m_schnei> AlanR: Any questions to Bijan? No?
Alan Ruttenberg: Any questions to Bijan? No? ←
18:28:24 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
18:28:26 <alanr> adjourned
Alan Ruttenberg: adjourned ←
18:28:26 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace ←
18:28:26 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
18:28:28 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
18:28:29 <christine> bye
Christine Golbreich: bye ←
18:28:29 <Rinke> thanks, bye
Rinke Hoekstra: thanks, bye ←
18:28:31 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau ←
18:28:32 <Zakim> -MarkusK
Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK ←
18:28:33 <Zakim> -rob
Zakim IRC Bot: -rob ←
18:28:35 <Zakim> -MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD ←
18:28:40 <MartinD> MartinD has left #OWL
Martin Dzbor: MartinD has left #OWL ←
18:28:42 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
18:28:53 <Zakim> -baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie ←
18:29:14 <Zakim> -??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P11 ←
18:29:35 <m_schnei> rrsagent, bye
rrsagent, bye ←
18:29:35 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-actions.rdf : ←
18:29:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: alan to draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files. [1]
ACTION: alan to draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files. [1] ←
18:29:35 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc#T18-25-27
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc#T18-25-27 ←
This revision (#1) generated 2008-07-11 14:57:10 UTC by 'ihorrock2', comments: 'Preliminary version'