IRC log of xproc on 2007-12-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:49:16 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
15:49:19 [Zakim]
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15:49:22 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xproc
15:49:22 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:49:35 [Norm]
Norm has changed the topic to: XProc WG meets 20 Dec:
15:51:36 [MSM]
ht, will you be on today's call?
15:51:47 [ht]
15:51:49 [ht]
15:51:59 [MSM]
15:52:27 [ht]
15:53:17 [MoZ]
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15:59:00 [Norm]
zakim, what's the passcode?
15:59:00 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), Norm
15:59:21 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started
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16:01:14 [Zakim]
16:01:18 [avernet]
zakim, ? is avernet
16:01:18 [Zakim]
+avernet; got it
16:01:30 [Zakim]
16:01:56 [Norm]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, avernet, MoZ
16:02:47 [ht]
zakim, please call ht-781
16:02:49 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
16:02:53 [Zakim]
16:02:53 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
16:02:53 [Norm]
Date: 20 December 2007
16:02:53 [Norm]
16:02:53 [Norm]
Meeting: 95
16:02:53 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
16:02:54 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
16:02:56 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
16:03:15 [richard]
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16:04:03 [richard]
zakim, ? is me
16:04:03 [Zakim]
+richard; got it
16:04:15 [AndrewF]
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16:04:45 [AndrewF]
zakim, ? is Andrew
16:04:45 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
16:04:54 [Norm]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:04:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, avernet, MoZ, Ht, richard, Andrew
16:05:57 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Paul, Alessandro, Mohamed, Henry, Richard, Andrew
16:06:06 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
16:06:07 [Norm]
16:06:10 [Norm]
16:06:18 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
16:06:18 [Norm]
16:06:21 [Norm]
16:06:28 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon 2 January 2008?
16:07:00 [Norm]
s/2 Jan/3 Jan/
16:07:23 [Norm]
Alessandro gives regrets.
16:07:53 [Norm]
Topic: Last call comments
16:08:01 [Norm]
16:10:26 [Norm]
Topic: 77. An unfulfilled requirement maybe?
16:11:29 [Norm]
Norm: This is Vasil asking about environment variables.
16:12:24 [Norm]
Henry: Something needs to be said about environment variables. At the very least, that it's impl defined what environment variables are passed through.
16:12:42 [Norm]
Richard: I don't think so. It seems to me it depends on the OS how it works and it's a QoI issue.
16:13:14 [Norm]
Richard: Environment variables are an OS-specific concept.
16:13:34 [Norm]
Henry: Can we say that the "environment" (lower case e) is implementation defined.
16:13:46 [Norm]
Richard: I assume that lots of things are implementation defined, like shell expansion in commands.
16:14:02 [Norm]
Norm: I'd have thought not.
16:14:15 [Norm]
Richard: For example, 'C' specifies that the command is passed to a command processor.
16:14:28 [Norm]
...which in Unix is a shell where expansion does take place.
16:14:36 [Norm]
...we probably should say something about that.
16:14:52 [Norm]
Henry: I think the answer there is 'no', or impl defined.
16:15:37 [Norm]
Richard: We've separated out the arguments from the command.
16:15:53 [Norm]
...If you want some sort of shell expansion, then you can make the command you run /bin/sh
16:15:59 [Norm]
...or whatever is appropriate.
16:16:29 [Norm]
Norm: I'm tempted to go back to Henry's suggestion and say that the "e"nvironment is OS and implementation defined.
16:17:29 [Norm]
Some discussion of parameters
16:18:16 [Norm]
Accepted. Implementation defined.
16:18:22 [Norm]
Norm: But we're not providing support for envars.
16:18:31 [Norm]
16:21:03 [Norm]
Topic: 78. normalization-form serialization option
16:21:47 [Norm]
Norm: I think we resolved this last week, all the steps that have normalization parameters are supposed tohave them all. Any variance was a bug.
16:22:08 [Norm]
Topic: 82. Security considerations: p:exec et al.
16:23:23 [Norm]
Norm: I think this is resolved by the changes in 2.8 Security Considerations.
16:23:41 [Norm]
Mohamed: We have to also have a warning about user-defined steps.
16:23:50 [richard]
16:24:14 [Norm]
Norm: So we need to say that p:exec can be inside user-defined pipelines
16:24:59 [Norm]
Norm: I suppose we could also say something about user-defined steps that are defined using Java code or something.
16:25:32 [Norm]
Richard: Rui mentions explicitly the case that the p:exec is in an external library.
16:26:14 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to expand 2.9 a bit more to cover these cases.
16:26:28 [Norm]
Topic: 84. Handling of system IDs
16:29:09 [Norm]
Norm: I think this is really about base URIs, which I'd thought we'd worked through, but now I'm not so sure.
16:29:57 [Norm]
Norm: It might make sense to augment p:store so that it uses the xml:base value of the document element if it has one.
16:30:57 [Norm]
Some discussion of how doctype declarations established by the serialization in XSLT might come into play.
16:32:20 [Norm]
Henry: I was chasing this the other day and discovering that Saxon does better than most other processors about changing the base URI if you add an xml:base attribute.
16:33:50 [Norm]
Henry: We did say that preserving base URI properties was something you should do, but we didn't directly address this point.
16:35:17 [Norm]
Norm: Toman wants to change the base URI in a specific way.
16:35:27 [Norm]
Richard: What's more, he probably wants it in unabsolutized form.
16:37:10 [Norm]
Norm: Maybe we need to think about this some more...
16:37:35 [Norm]
Richard: The clunky way to fix this is to start with a document that lists the documents rather than directly with the list of documents.
16:38:31 [Norm]
Norm: Should we leave this one open a bit and see what progress we make.
16:38:41 [Norm]
Let's take this one to email.
16:39:22 [Norm]
Richard: The p:for-each step already does some things to the XPath environment, it could put something in which was the URI of the document in question.
16:41:10 [Norm]
Some more discussion of the examples
16:41:24 [Norm]
Richard observes that the select in p:store could access the extension function
16:41:43 [Norm]
Topic: 85. Please add Implementation and Test Suite info to the W3C XProc page
16:42:18 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to fix the XProc home page
16:42:35 [Norm]
Topic: 86. A really important question
16:42:46 [Norm]
Norm: This what extension to use...
16:42:54 [Norm]
Henry: Whatever convention we establish, people will follow.
16:43:45 [Norm]
...We ought to give a little thought to the extension
16:44:14 [Norm]
...We could just expose them as .xml
16:44:56 [Norm]
...Since we're toying with a media type, web server administrators will be unhappy if we don't pick a suffix.
16:47:50 [ht]
allinurl: xpl filetype:xpl
16:49:24 [Norm]
Henry: There are about 8000 pages that end in .xpl
16:49:41 [Norm]
Henry: Orbeon uses .xpl
16:49:45 [Norm]
Alessandro: works for me!
16:50:11 [Norm]
Henry: So is this the way we're going
16:50:32 [Norm]
Norm: I'm not really fond of the idea of making a statement directly about it in the spec, but I'm happy to use .xpl in examples and the test suite, etc.
16:51:10 [Norm]
Henry: We have an issue about the media type stuff and fragment identifiers. We'll get back to this, indirectly, when we cover that issue.
16:51:33 [Norm]
Norm: I'm happy that we have an informal consensus to use .xpl, but I don't feel like we need to add it to the spec just yet.
16:51:49 [Norm]
Alessandro: The XSLT spec says that most of the stylesheets use the extension .xsl
16:52:57 [Norm]
Norm: Right, in the media type spec, I'm happy to do that too.
16:53:12 [Norm]
Topic: 87. p:function
16:53:53 [Norm]
Not in V1
16:54:44 [Norm]
Topic: 88. xpath-version=2 and XSLTMatchPatterns
16:55:39 [Norm]
Norm: So we get XSLT 2.0 match patterns if xpath-version=2?
16:56:52 [Norm]
Norm: Anyone disagree and it's just the editor's job to work that out
16:57:54 [Norm]
Richard: What's the difference?
16:58:03 [Norm]
Norm: XSLT 2.0 match patterns can include variable references
16:58:10 [Norm]
Henry: And can have functions in places other than predicates
16:59:41 [Norm]
Some discussion of the features of XSLT 1.0 and XSLT 2.0
16:59:52 [Norm]
ACTION: Editor to make it so.
17:00:09 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business
17:00:13 [Norm]
17:00:31 [Zakim]
17:00:32 [Zakim]
17:00:34 [Norm]
Happy holidays to all!
17:00:35 [Zakim]
17:00:41 [Norm]
zakim, who's on the phone?
17:00:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm, MoZ, Ht, richard
17:00:47 [Zakim]
17:01:06 [Zakim]
17:01:08 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world visible
17:01:08 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'set logs world visible', Norm. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:01:14 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
17:01:48 [Norm]
zakim, who's on the phone?
17:01:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm, Ht
17:02:12 [PGrosso]
PGrosso has left #xproc
17:03:17 [MoZ]
Norm, still here
17:03:30 [MoZ]
In 3.1 Namespaces
17:03:32 [MoZ]
17:03:36 [MoZ]
is it correct ?
17:05:18 [Zakim]
17:05:20 [Zakim]
17:05:22 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
17:05:23 [Zakim]
Attendees were Norm, PGrosso, avernet, MoZ, Ht, richard, Andrew
17:05:26 [Norm]
Correct for what/
17:05:32 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Norm
17:05:49 [MoZ]
Norm, may be this name should have a reference to xproc anywhere
17:05:58 [MoZ]
17:06:17 [Norm]
Oh, yes, the /xproc/1.0 document needs to be written
17:06:29 [Norm]
We won't get through another round of pubrules without it, but I haven't bothered yet
17:07:13 [MoZ]
yes indeed
17:07:28 [Norm]
Thanks for the reminder though
17:07:40 [Norm]
I need to unplug my network for a few minutes. talk to you later.
17:07:50 [Norm]
happy holidays & happy new year if I don't get back before you go!