IRC log of xhtml on 2007-12-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:48:02 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #xhtml

13:48:02 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-irc

13:52:14 [Roland]

zakim, list

13:52:14 [Zakim]

I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM, IA_WAF()8:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM active

13:52:15 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time is IA_XHTML2()9:00AM

13:52:35 [Roland]

zakim, this is XHTML2

13:52:35 [Zakim]

Roland, I see IA_XHTML2()9:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be XHTML2".

13:52:56 [Roland]

zakim, this will be XHTML2

13:52:56 [Zakim]

ok, Roland; I see IA_XHTML2()9:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

13:53:00 [alessio]

alessio has joined #xhtml

13:58:01 [Zakim]

IA_XHTML2()9:00AM has now started

13:58:05 [Zakim]

+Roland

13:59:45 [Zakim]

+ +1.763.767.aaaa

13:59:48 [Zakim]

-Roland

13:59:49 [Zakim]

+Roland

14:00:13 [ShaneM]

zakim, aaaa is ShaneM_

14:00:13 [Zakim]

+ShaneM_; got it

14:01:00 [Zakim]

+??P18

14:01:27 [Zakim]

+Gregory_Rosmaita

14:01:38 [alessio]

zakim, +P18 is alessio

14:01:38 [Zakim]

sorry, alessio, I do not recognize a party named '+P18'

14:01:51 [yamx]

yamx has joined #xhtml

14:01:57 [ShaneM]

Zakim, ??p18 is alessio

14:01:57 [Zakim]

+alessio; got it

14:02:30 [Zakim]

+??P19

14:02:41 [yamx]

Zakim, ?P19 is yamx

14:02:41 [Zakim]

sorry, yamx, I do not recognize a party named '?P19'

14:02:56 [yamx]

zakim, ??P19 is yamx

14:02:56 [Zakim]

+yamx; got it

14:03:37 [Roland]

Regrets: Steven, Rich

14:05:49 [oedipus]

scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita

14:05:53 [oedipus]

scribeNick: oedipus

14:06:12 [markbirbeck]

markbirbeck has joined #xhtml

14:06:25 [markbirbeck]

zakim, code?

14:06:25 [Zakim]

the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

14:06:54 [oedipus]

TOPIC: Testing XHTML Basic 1.1

14:07:00 [oedipus]

RM: testing complete, yam?

14:07:03 [Zakim]

+ +020768aabb

14:07:10 [markbirbeck]

zakim, i am aabb

14:07:10 [Zakim]

+markbirbeck; got it

14:07:28 [oedipus]

Yam: sent report to steven -- still need 2 independent implementations

14:07:57 [oedipus]

Yam: opera offers browser for japanese implementations

14:08:02 [oedipus]

RM: can you approach them?

14:08:12 [oedipus]

Yam: no contacts

14:08:19 [oedipus]

GJR: i can follow up with opera

14:08:46 [oedipus]

s/opera/openwave

14:08:57 [oedipus]

Yam: steven has mentioned openwave

14:09:19 [oedipus]

Yam: produced internal version testing -- need to find out what they are doing

14:09:32 [oedipus]

RM: guess it will have to wait until new year and steven's return

14:09:53 [oedipus]

Yam: access input mode - requested to test by mike(tm)smith

14:10:13 [oedipus]

RM: mike w3c staff, right?

14:10:32 [oedipus]

Yam: staff contact for MWI

14:10:42 [oedipus]

GJR: now staff contact for HTML WG

14:11:08 [oedipus]

RM: find out where we are from steven's point of view -- don't know why didn't share report -- perhaps not around -- will discuss in the new year

14:11:17 [oedipus]

TOPIC: Open Action Items

14:11:33 [oedipus]

RM: processed Role comments last week -- any more shane?

14:11:42 [oedipus]

shane: working through them

14:11:54 [oedipus]

RM: modularization comment on IRIs

14:12:24 [oedipus]

mark: thought someone took action on this -- think sent mail to RichS on this topic

14:12:57 [oedipus]

RM: item in question from frank -- addressed?

14:13:41 [oedipus]

mark: not yet addressed

14:13:50 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007OctDec/0017

14:14:00 [Roland]

WD xhtml-modularization -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007OctDec/0017

14:14:10 [oedipus]

RM: underway on that one?

14:14:22 [oedipus]

mark: never done anything on this -- let's ponder a moment, shall we?

14:14:30 [oedipus]

[the group ponders]

14:15:19 [oedipus]

RM: suggesting we plagerize schema spec for URIs?

14:15:28 [oedipus]

mark: already do

14:16:16 [oedipus]

RM: comment in 4.3 -- may be superfluous -- if remove note and just refer to schema should be ok

14:16:25 [oedipus]

mark: ok -- wish i knew why note was added...

14:16:32 [oedipus]

RM: people asked about IRIs in past

14:16:48 [oedipus]

RM: shane, can you remove not?

14:16:54 [oedipus]

shane: doing it right now -- done

14:17:18 [oedipus]

RM: can close this particular item

14:17:54 [oedipus]

shane: not in issue tracking system -- no formal comment on spec in comment period

14:18:17 [oedipus]

RM: wouldn't do any harm to reply to poster that removing note

14:18:23 [oedipus]

shane: will send response

14:18:26 [oedipus]

RM: great

14:18:37 [oedipus]

TOPIC: Name of Serialization of HTML5

14:18:44 [oedipus]

RM: not sure can do much about this

14:18:58 [Roland]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0001

14:19:37 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0001.html

14:19:52 [oedipus]

GJR thoughts: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0006.html

14:20:24 [oedipus]

RM: not sure anything to do here -- talking about XHTML5 -- consumer confusion concerns -- why not just HTML5 with XML serialization

14:21:28 [oedipus]

shane: not XHTML -- nothing in common with actual HTML5

14:21:56 [oedipus]

RM: just anounced public draft to be published

14:22:30 [oedipus]

GJR: 26 February 2008 -- trying to move up (issuing the first public draft of HTML5)

14:22:41 [oedipus]

RM: approval for issuing first WD done

14:23:13 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0203.html

14:24:07 [oedipus]

RM: looking at ChrisL's approval - HTML5 spec first WD will be published next week 27 december 2007

14:28:20 [oedipus]

RM: not sure should agonize over what HTML5 is doing

14:28:22 [oedipus]

shane: agree

14:28:25 [oedipus]

GJR: agree

14:28:55 [oedipus]

TOPIC: XHTML 1.1 - xml:space in validator

14:28:59 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Oct/0023

14:29:24 [oedipus]

[the sound of silent reading]

14:29:32 [oedipus]

shane: already dealt with this

14:29:37 [oedipus]

RM: complete?

14:29:41 [oedipus]

shane: yes

14:33:45 [oedipus]

RM: how to write up what to do in this area?

14:34:08 [oedipus]

shane: moved DTDs out of TR space -- under /MarkUp now -- may be part of problem

14:34:25 [oedipus]

ACTION Roland: sort out versioning and shortnames

14:35:04 [oedipus]

shane: if have updated WD if something is already a rec, is it our responsibility to alert the validator people

14:35:26 [oedipus]

RM: dated version goes to TR space when actually recommendation -- can't replace 1.1

14:35:35 [oedipus]

RM: also versined through dated name

14:36:03 [oedipus]

shane: going forward, need to say DTD identifier is gotten to from dated name -- otherwise go to wrong DTD

14:36:11 [oedipus]

RM: will review and share info with WG

14:36:36 [oedipus]

RM: close this item in tracker

14:36:46 [oedipus]

TOPIC: Prefix mapping in role and/or RDFa

14:36:53 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Oct/0021

14:36:53 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Oct/0033.html

14:37:30 [oedipus]

RM: replied to item 33?

14:37:36 [oedipus]

shane: yes, had as action last week

14:37:51 [ShaneM]

http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab

14:37:52 [oedipus]

shane: real topic is producing vocabulary document at end of vocabulary reference

14:38:24 [oedipus]

shane: needs to use new content-negotiation stuff TAG currently debating; Ralph Zwick offered assisstance

14:38:53 [oedipus]

shane: plan is to produce document at URI i cited that uses RDFa to encode the vocabulary

14:38:56 [markbirbeck]

s/Zwick/Swick/

14:39:05 [markbirbeck]

:)

14:39:33 [oedipus]

shane: think that should go long way towards resolution -- what is the default prefix in XHTML family documents -- we've said "it is this"

14:39:43 [oedipus]

mark: agree (for the time-being)

14:39:49 [markbirbeck]

(Should have '#' on the end.)

14:40:05 [oedipus]

RM: going to be a while before finish?

14:40:15 [oedipus]

shane: before end of year -- relatively simple, just has to be done

14:41:05 [ShaneM]

ACTION: ShaneM to produce a vocabulary document that will go at the vocab# URI and use RDFa to annotate the items.

14:41:44 [oedipus]

RM: ok, we can move on then...

14:42:17 [oedipus]

RM: state of HTML5 still in flux -- just received note from Ian Jacobs -- in middle of publishing moratorium

14:42:33 [oedipus]

TOPIC: Legacy Module

14:42:43 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0009

14:43:05 [oedipus]

shane: m12n 2 doesn't have legacy module -- doesn't mean can't, just don't have one

14:43:51 [oedipus]

shane: 2 issues: 1) put those in legacy module; 2) should there be a legacy module in XHTML2 or not -- should it be part of language or available to those extending language

14:44:06 [oedipus]

RM: shouldn't make decision until discern what legacy will be needed

14:44:25 [oedipus]

RM: how to dispose of note - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0009

14:45:03 [oedipus]

shane: [re-reads comment] suggesting we make changes to what is in legacy module for 1.1 -- asking us to add things to 1.1

14:45:49 [oedipus]

shane: it isn't a bad suggestion --

14:46:00 [oedipus]

RM: anyone any thoughts on this?

14:46:17 [oedipus]

shane: legacy module not used by anybody in reality

14:46:27 [oedipus]

RM: problems with legacy module

14:46:47 [oedipus]

Yam: used legacy modules to define so could apply CSS

14:46:59 [oedipus]

shane: would introducing these attributes help or hurt?

14:47:12 [oedipus]

Yam: if have legacy module don't think will hurt

14:47:26 [ShaneM]

Concerned that adding things to legacy will change conformance requirements...

14:47:40 [oedipus]

RM: please think about it shane and yam and everyone else -- return to it in new year -- been around for a long time, so should clear ASAP

14:47:58 [oedipus]

shane: want to hear StevenP's opinion on it, too

14:48:04 [oedipus]

RM: will discuss in new year

14:48:11 [oedipus]

TOPIC: @Talign (erratum)

14:48:16 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0009

14:48:31 [oedipus]

azkim, draft minutes

14:48:39 [oedipus]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:48:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:49:31 [oedipus]

shane: DL with "type" attribute -- this is ancient stuff -- asking for reply to older post; HTML4 comment not our balliwick -- comment about modularization legacy which can't find (no pointer provided)

14:49:41 [oedipus]

RM: no reference to previous note

14:49:56 [oedipus]

shane: found it -- sent on 27 july -- found in personal mailbox

14:50:40 [oedipus]

shane: sent to html-editor -- says DL doesn't take type attribute in m12n -- he's right

14:51:12 [oedipus]

shane: think i can just fix it -- have to update the decisions and comments document

14:51:28 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Update M12N DoC and M12N to remove the erroneous @type from the dl element in legacy.

14:51:45 [oedipus]

RM: you'll reply to commenter directly as well

14:51:47 [oedipus]

shane: yes

14:51:59 [oedipus]

TOPIC: XML Schema implementation for XHTML 2.0 (request from UWA WG)

14:52:03 [oedipus]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0038.html

14:52:10 [oedipus]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:52:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:52:27 [oedipus]

shane: already responded and told them we will do it

14:52:39 [oedipus]

RM: ok another issue cleared

14:53:01 [oedipus]

TOPIC: Items relating to CURIES

14:53:26 [oedipus]

RM: syntax problems

14:53:26 [oedipus]

Suffix ambiguity: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2007JanMar/0066.html

14:53:47 [oedipus]

Syntax problems (PR#8010) - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JanMar/0051

14:54:00 [oedipus]

Comments on WD-curie-20070307 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007AprJun/0000

14:54:34 [oedipus]

RM: double colon is valid -- first colon delimiter, second part of URI -- first prefix has to be named

14:54:46 [oedipus]

RM: thought we investigated this

14:55:04 [oedipus]

shane: numbers are in hex without leading zero

14:55:31 [oedipus]

RM: http://blah.blah[hexvalue]

14:55:37 [markbirbeck]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Literal_IPv6_addresses_in_URLs

14:56:14 [oedipus]

[much reading and pondering]

14:56:28 [markbirbeck]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Notation

14:56:45 [oedipus]

mark: to get double-colon using feature that allows substitution of two colons for zero

14:57:13 [oedipus]

mark: could be six quadruple zeros

14:57:20 [oedipus]

shane: what's the real issue?

14:57:35 [oedipus]

shane: is it actually a problem?

14:58:09 [oedipus]

mark: if an IPv6 appears without protocol at front and relative path at end can be (mark can you finish your thought in IRC?)

14:58:23 [markbirbeck]

i.e., if it's possible to have this: "[dead::beef]", then we hvae a problem.

14:58:25 [markbirbeck]

But...

14:58:39 [markbirbeck]

if you have to hvae this: "http://[dead::beef]/" then we don't.

14:58:42 [oedipus]

2 minute warning

14:59:10 [markbirbeck]

...just looking at rfc 2732 ...

14:59:49 [oedipus]

MB: like postname

14:59:56 [oedipus]

shane: has to have scheme

15:00:01 [markbirbeck]

s/postname/hostname/

15:00:03 [oedipus]

s/postname/hostname

15:00:26 [oedipus]

shane: ever replied to this?

15:00:43 [oedipus]

shane: check and see if in issue tracking system

15:01:08 [oedipus]

RM: quoting "alternatively, the ambiguity brackets... could be disposed of using suffixes and CURIEs"

15:01:40 [oedipus]

it's a might be a problem, not a documented problem

15:02:02 [oedipus]

shane: what to do with this

15:02:07 [oedipus]

mark: need to reply

15:02:21 [oedipus]

shane: typing it now -- i'll do it (curie suffix URI ambiguity)

15:02:23 [oedipus]

GJR wants to publicly thank shane for work on improving the W3C diffmarking service

15:03:12 [oedipus]

mark: clarify -- "CURIE syntax document should warn..." -- should just tighten up -- should say thanks for comment we will be tightening up

15:03:54 [oedipus]

RM: some other CURIE bits and RDFa module issues -- syntax issues and comments; let's work our way through this on list and get onto more current issues

15:04:03 [oedipus]

RM: call scheduled in 2 weeks time

15:04:30 [oedipus]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:04:30 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:04:32 [Zakim]

-ShaneM_

15:04:34 [Zakim]

-alessio

15:04:35 [Zakim]

-Roland

15:04:37 [Zakim]

-markbirbeck

15:04:38 [Zakim]

-yamx

15:04:40 [Zakim]

-Gregory_Rosmaita

15:04:41 [markbirbeck]

happy Xmas everyone!

15:04:42 [Zakim]

IA_XHTML2()9:00AM has ended

15:04:43 [Zakim]

Attendees were Roland, +1.763.767.aaaa, ShaneM_, Gregory_Rosmaita, alessio, yamx, +020768aabb, markbirbeck

15:04:58 [Roland]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:04:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

15:05:00 [yamx]

Season's greetings and happy holidays!

15:05:14 [oedipus]

set logs public

15:05:19 [oedipus]

rrsagent set logs public

15:06:12 [ShaneM]

rrsagent, make minutes public

15:06:12 [oedipus]

rrsagent, set logs world-visible

15:06:17 [ShaneM]

ahh okay

15:06:25 [oedipus]

thanks shane

15:06:28 [ShaneM]

my cats are climbing my xmas tree - way funny

15:07:01 [alessio]

alessio has joined #xhtml

15:07:03 [oedipus]

my cats are climbing me and have been all telecon long - not very funny (well, it would be if i weren't the object of their climbing)

15:07:06 [Roland]

rrsagent, make log public

15:07:19 [alessio]

haha

15:07:30 [Roland]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:07:30 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

15:07:39 [oedipus]

meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Call

15:07:49 [oedipus]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:07:49 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:07:52 [Roland]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:07:52 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

15:08:02 [oedipus]

chair: Roland

15:08:05 [oedipus]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:08:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:08:34 [oedipus]

who's in the 763 area code?

15:08:43 [ShaneM]

me

15:08:48 [oedipus]

ok

15:08:59 [oedipus]

present- aaaa

15:09:06 [oedipus]

present+ ShaneM

15:09:10 [oedipus]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:09:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:09:44 [oedipus]

present- [+1.763.767.aaaa]

15:09:46 [Roland]

minutes now look good, thanks for scribing

15:09:47 [oedipus]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:09:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:10:02 [oedipus]

no problem -- just trying to tie up loose ends

15:10:19 [Roland]

excellent

15:10:31 [oedipus]

roland, do you know who the other mystery phone number belongs to?

15:10:46 [oedipus]

+020768aabb

15:10:53 [Roland]

could be mark birbeck

15:11:02 [oedipus]

ah..

15:11:07 [Roland]

looks like a London number

15:11:15 [oedipus]

present- aabb

15:11:23 [CSB]

CSB has joined #xHTML

15:11:27 [oedipus]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:11:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:11:59 [oedipus]

sometimes the syntax for correcting/removing numbers doesn't seem to work, other times it does...

15:12:01 [Roland]

020768 is the start of Mark.B's phone number

15:12:18 [oedipus]

present- 020768aabb

15:12:24 [oedipus]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:12:24 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:12:48 [oedipus]

should i just leave the numbers in the attendees list?

15:13:05 [oedipus]

present- [+020768aabb]

15:13:07 [oedipus]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:13:07 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:13:10 [Roland]

I do not think they create any difficulties

15:13:22 [oedipus]

ok

15:13:34 [oedipus]

zakim, please part

15:13:34 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #xhtml

15:13:42 [Roland]

thanks again. Season's Greetings!

15:13:49 [oedipus]

same to you!

15:14:16 [alessio]

alessio has joined #xhtml

15:14:37 [alessio]

same to you :)

15:14:46 [oedipus]

rrsagent, publish minutes

15:14:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:14:58 [oedipus]

rrsagent, please part

15:14:58 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-actions.rdf :

15:14:58 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Roland to sort out versioning and shortnames [1]

15:14:58 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-irc#T14-34-25

15:14:58 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ShaneM to produce a vocabulary document that will go at the vocab# URI and use RDFa to annotate the items. [2]

15:14:58 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-irc#T14-41-05

15:14:58 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Update M12N DoC and M12N to remove the erroneous @type from the dl element in legacy. [3]

15:14:58 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-xhtml-irc#T14-51-28