IRC log of owl on 2007-12-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:52:02 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #owl
17:52:02 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-owl-irc
17:54:30 [bijan]
zakim, this is owl
17:54:30 [Zakim]
ok, bijan; that matches SW_OWL()12:00PM
17:54:31 [Zakim]
+??P2
17:54:42 [bijan]
zakim, ??P2 is me
17:54:42 [Zakim]
+bijan; got it
17:54:48 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
17:54:48 [Zakim]
sorry, bijan, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
17:54:57 [IanH]
IanH has joined #owl
17:55:05 [bmotik]
bmotik has joined #owl
17:55:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.312.052.aaaa
17:55:51 [Rinke]
zakim, 1.312.052.aaaa is me
17:55:51 [Zakim]
sorry, Rinke, I do not recognize a party named '1.312.052.aaaa'
17:56:02 [Zakim]
+??P4
17:56:12 [Rinke]
zakim, aaaa is me
17:56:12 [Zakim]
+Rinke; got it
17:56:12 [bmotik]
Zakim, ??P4 is me
17:56:13 [Zakim]
+bmotik; got it
17:56:19 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
17:56:19 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
17:56:22 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
17:56:22 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
17:56:22 [Rinke]
zakim, mute me
17:56:24 [Zakim]
Rinke should now be muted
17:56:52 [bmotik]
It is eerily silent on the line
17:57:22 [alanr]
alanr has joined #owl
17:57:52 [bmotik]
Bijan, how did you type your last comment into the IRC?
17:58:07 [ivan]
ivan has joined #owl
17:58:09 [bmotik]
I see that it is diffrent, but I don't understand what the difference is
17:58:15 [Zakim]
+IanH
17:58:49 [bmotik]
And this is then not in the log, or?
17:58:55 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.253.aabb
17:58:59 [ewallace]
ewallace has joined #owl
17:59:01 [Elisa]
Elisa has joined #owl
17:59:03 [alanr]
zakim, aabb is me
17:59:03 [Zakim]
+alanr; got it
17:59:06 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
17:59:06 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
17:59:08 [Zakim]
+Ivan
17:59:12 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #owl
17:59:33 [Zakim]
+??P11
17:59:42 [pfps]
zakim, ??p11 is me
17:59:42 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
17:59:44 [Zakim]
+Elisa_Kendall
17:59:47 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
17:59:47 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:00:04 [Zhe]
Zhe has joined #owl
18:00:12 [evrensirin]
evrensirin has joined #owl
18:00:24 [Zakim]
+Sandro
18:00:31 [Zakim]
+Evan_Wallace
18:00:34 [Zakim]
+Zhe
18:00:35 [bcuencag]
bcuencag has joined #owl
18:00:49 [alanr]
bernardo, can you scribe?
18:01:29 [Zakim]
+msmith
18:01:39 [bmotik]
Zakim, unmute me
18:01:39 [Zakim]
bmotik should no longer be muted
18:01:46 [Zakim]
+??P17
18:02:14 [MarkusK]
MarkusK has joined #owl
18:02:19 [evrensirin]
zakim, msmith is temporarily evrensirin
18:02:19 [Zakim]
+evrensirin; got it
18:02:32 [Zakim]
+??P18
18:02:36 [sandro]
sandro has joined #owl
18:02:44 [bcuencag]
zakim,??P17 is me
18:02:44 [Zakim]
+bcuencag; got it
18:03:07 [Zakim]
+??P19
18:03:12 [bijan]
zakim, msmith is evrensirin
18:03:12 [Zakim]
sorry, bijan, I do not recognize a party named 'msmith'
18:03:31 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
18:03:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke (muted), bmotik, IanH, alanr, Ivan, pfps (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, evrensirin, bcuencag, jeremy, MarkusK
18:03:32 [alanr]
evren is scribe?
18:03:35 [Zakim]
On IRC I see sandro, MarkusK, bcuencag, evrensirin, Zhe, jeremy, Elisa, ewallace, ivan, alanr, bmotik, IanH, RRSAgent, Zakim, pfps, Rinke, bijan, trackbot-ng
18:03:46 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
18:03:46 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
18:04:08 [Carsten]
Carsten has joined #owl
18:04:20 [ewallace]
Evrin: Can you scribe?
18:04:46 [sandro]
scribenick: evrensirin
18:04:53 [alanr]
zakim, who is here?
18:04:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH (muted), alanr, Ivan, pfps (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, evrensirin, bcuencag, jeremy
18:04:57 [Zakim]
... (muted), MarkusK (muted)
18:04:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Carsten, sandro, MarkusK, bcuencag, evrensirin, Zhe, jeremy, Elisa, ewallace, ivan, alanr, bmotik, IanH, RRSAgent, Zakim, pfps, Rinke, bijan, trackbot-ng
18:04:59 [bmotik]
Zakim, unmute me
18:04:59 [Zakim]
bmotik should no longer be muted
18:05:16 [sandro]
evrensirin, the main thing is to record more-or-less what people say as nickname: what they say
18:05:33 [Zakim]
+??P20
18:05:35 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
18:05:35 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
18:05:44 [evrensirin]
sandro, ok
18:05:46 [Carsten]
zakim, p20 is carsten
18:05:46 [Zakim]
sorry, Carsten, I do not recognize a party named 'p20'
18:05:53 [alanr]
PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes
18:05:56 [Carsten]
zakim, P20 is Carsten
18:05:56 [Zakim]
sorry, Carsten, I do not recognize a party named 'P20'
18:05:58 [alanr]
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2007.12.12/Minutes
18:05:59 [ivan]
zakim, ??P20 is carsten
18:05:59 [Zakim]
+carsten; got it
18:06:05 [Carsten]
thanks, ivan
18:06:10 [Carsten]
zakim, mute me
18:06:10 [Zakim]
carsten should now be muted
18:06:24 [bcuencag]
zakim, mute me
18:06:24 [Zakim]
bcuencag should now be muted
18:06:25 [alanr]
Resolved: Accept Previous Minutes
18:06:34 [bmotik]
They did
18:06:44 [bmotik]
Ian added them
18:06:46 [JeffP]
JeffP has joined #owl
18:07:46 [Zakim]
+??P22
18:07:53 [JeffP]
zakim, P22 is me
18:07:53 [Zakim]
sorry, JeffP, I do not recognize a party named 'P22'
18:08:02 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:08:02 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
18:08:06 [JeffP]
zakim, ?P22 is me
18:08:06 [Zakim]
sorry, JeffP, I do not recognize a party named '?P22'
18:08:20 [JeffP]
zakim, +??P22 is me
18:08:20 [Zakim]
sorry, JeffP, I do not recognize a party named '+??P22'
18:08:31 [pfps]
yes, I'm waiting for Sandro to push the button
18:08:36 [bijan]
zakim, ??P22 is JeffP
18:08:36 [Zakim]
+JeffP; got it
18:08:49 [JeffP]
bijan, thx
18:08:57 [pfps]
pfps has joined #owl
18:09:21 [bijan]
So this means no publication until after Jan 2 (/me notes)
18:09:49 [bijan]
No I mean that the publication moratoriam; it ends on Jan 2
18:11:14 [evrensirin]
alanr: action 4, are we using redirects?
18:11:33 [evrensirin]
sandro: we can cancel the action
18:11:53 [pfps]
there are *still* people who haven't signed on to the wiki
18:11:57 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
18:11:57 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
18:12:32 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
18:12:32 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
18:12:44 [evrensirin]
ian: there are still people without wiki accounts
18:12:59 [ivan]
scribenick: evrensirin
18:13:01 [pfps]
just a comment
18:13:10 [bijan]
How do people scribe if they don't have accounts?
18:13:27 [bijan]
So that's a forcing function
18:13:58 [MarkusK]
A simple captcha can prevent spam. There are simple solutions to that.
18:14:26 [jeremy]
(note steve battle is HP's alternate, and so far has not done anything, other than attend F2F because of HP's internal decisions about representation etc.)
18:14:36 [jeremy]
(note steve does not have an account)
18:14:48 [sandro]
MarkusK, captcha's don't prevent spam -- we get spam from real humans.
18:15:10 [evrensirin]
alanr: update the deadline for action 23
18:15:10 [MarkusK]
OK, human spam is of course different.
18:15:35 [evrensirin]
alanr: mid-january for action 23
18:16:10 [IanH]
Is it just me or is Alan a very long way away?
18:16:12 [pfps]
I don't remember anything related to that issue at the F2F.
18:16:15 [pfps]
Huh?
18:16:18 [bijan]
q+
18:16:26 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
18:16:26 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
18:16:28 [pfps]
q+
18:16:34 [ivan]
ack bijan
18:16:38 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:16:38 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:16:47 [jeremy]
I Bthink this action should continue
18:17:06 [evrensirin]
alanr: do we want punning on object and datatype properties?
18:17:10 [evrensirin]
bijan: does it matter?
18:17:25 [jeremy]
Zakim, unmute me
18:17:25 [Zakim]
jeremy should no longer be muted
18:17:26 [ivan]
q?
18:17:30 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
18:17:30 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
18:17:33 [pfps]
q-
18:17:34 [ewallace]
jeremy received this action at the FTF
18:17:36 [evrensirin]
alanr: describe the problem in detail
18:18:40 [jeremy]
Zakim, mute me
18:18:40 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
18:18:42 [IanH]
There is no call next week!
18:19:04 [bijan]
Yes
18:19:05 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:19:05 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:19:09 [evrensirin]
alanr: update the deadline for action 48
18:19:43 [bijan]
I recall asking for a grammar
18:19:52 [evrensirin]
ian: zhe will write OWLPrime spec in a similar format to others
18:20:32 [evrensirin]
zhe: trying to figure out if RDFS 3.0 vocabulary can be mapped to DL-Lite or EL++
18:21:09 [evrensirin]
zhe: summary could be in wiki in January
18:21:34 [evrensirin]
zhe: update deadline for action 54
18:21:50 [pfps]
I don't want a meeting in any case
18:22:12 [bijan]
Uli is out sick
18:22:44 [evrensirin]
alanr: continue Uli's actions 55 and 56
18:22:49 [bcuencagrau]
bcuencagrau has joined #owl
18:23:01 [evrensirin]
ian: there were pending review items
18:23:28 [bcuencagrau]
zakim, mute me
18:23:28 [Zakim]
sorry, bcuencagrau, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
18:23:40 [evrensirin]
ian: pending means people want confirmation that it is finished
18:23:51 [bcuencagrau]
zakim, ??P17 is me
18:23:51 [Zakim]
I already had ??P17 as bcuencag, bcuencagrau
18:24:34 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:24:34 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:24:40 [bijan]
I was confused by that as there were extant imports proposals (e.g., from my email from before the f2f)
18:25:07 [evrensirin]
alanr: accept action 36, 40, 41 as closed
18:26:02 [bmotik]
Zakim, unmute me
18:26:02 [Zakim]
bmotik should no longer be muted
18:26:42 [bijan]
OWL 1.1 uses constants to describe atomic values, such as strings or integers. These are encoded as in the Turtle specification[TURTLE].
18:26:43 [bijan]
constantá:= the same as the literal production in the Turtle specification [TURTLE]
18:26:52 [bijan]
(from http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax )
18:27:27 [bijan]
This maybe: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Syntax&diff=2108&oldid=2107
18:27:28 [evrensirin]
alanr: can you put the revision of wiki page regarding action 57
18:28:18 [evrensirin]
alanr: there should be a note in the tracker about the action
18:28:42 [bijan]
This might be a better one: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Syntax&diff=2107&oldid=2103
18:28:52 [jeremy]
For clairfication: this was about actions not issues?
18:28:59 [evrensirin]
alanr: goal is for someone to understand what the action is and how it was resolved
18:29:04 [evrensirin]
alanr: people can review easily
18:29:31 [evrensirin]
alanr: pending review actions completed
18:29:46 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:29:46 [Zakim]
pfps was not muted, pfps
18:29:51 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
18:29:51 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
18:30:04 [evrensirin]
pfps: put a link to wiki
18:30:20 [evrensirin]
pfps: location is Gaithersburg, MD
18:30:30 [zwu2]
zwu2 has joined #owl
18:30:48 [evrensirin]
alanr: personally encourage people to attend OWLED
18:30:54 [bcuencag]
bcuencag has joined #owl
18:30:55 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:30:55 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:31:03 [Zhe]
Zhe has joined #owl
18:31:19 [bcuencag]
zakim, mute me
18:31:19 [Zakim]
bcuencag was already muted, bcuencag
18:31:28 [evrensirin]
alanr: establish RDF mapping task force
18:31:30 [IanH]
plus Jeremy
18:32:53 [IanH]
Jeremy, Peter, Johnathan, Ian, Alan, Boris
18:33:18 [evrensirin]
task force will create a wiki page
18:33:28 [evrensirin]
address open issues regarding RDF mapping
18:33:33 [evrensirin]
ensure backward compatibility
18:33:33 [jeremy]
q+ to ask about Jonathan
18:33:40 [jeremy]
Zakim, unmute me
18:33:40 [Zakim]
jeremy should no longer be muted
18:33:42 [alanr]
q?
18:33:47 [ivan]
ack jeremy
18:33:47 [Zakim]
jeremy, you wanted to ask about Jonathan
18:34:12 [jeremy]
Zakim, mute me
18:34:12 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
18:34:15 [alanr]
q?
18:34:32 [evrensirin]
alanr: let's discuss imports
18:34:34 [jeremy]
jeremy: is Jonathan a WG participant
18:34:34 [bmotik]
Zakim, unmute me
18:34:34 [Zakim]
bmotik should no longer be muted
18:34:40 [Rinke]
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Imports
18:34:43 [jeremy]
alanr: he is in process of joining
18:35:08 [bijan]
The email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0183.html
18:35:26 [evrensirin]
boris: imports are by ontology URI but physical URI may be different
18:35:29 [bijan]
BTW, I don't understand the comment "Bijan, I believe you were supposed to put this somewhere on the Web page, right?"
18:36:07 [evrensirin]
boris: propose to have oracles to map ontology URIs to physical URIs
18:36:31 [evrensirin]
boris: a file based oracle plus hints in the imports
18:36:35 [bijan]
q+
18:36:36 [jeremy]
q+ to ask about interoperability benefits?
18:36:36 [sandro]
q+
18:36:42 [bijan]
zakim, ack
18:36:42 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'ack', bijan
18:36:43 [ivan]
ack bijan
18:36:43 [sandro]
ack bijan
18:36:48 [evrensirin]
boris: if all else fails try ontology URI
18:36:55 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:36:55 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:37:18 [pfps]
q+
18:37:26 [evrensirin]
bijan: XML catalog has similar mechanism
18:37:35 [jeremy]
ack jeremy
18:37:36 [Zakim]
jeremy, you wanted to ask about interoperability benefits?
18:37:36 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
18:37:36 [ivan]
ack jeremy
18:37:38 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
18:37:43 [evrensirin]
bijan: Protege and TBC has similar mechanisms
18:37:58 [alanr]
+1 for specification
18:38:02 [bmotik]
Can I answer this please?
18:38:07 [evrensirin]
jeremy: do we need to specify the mechanism for interoperability?
18:38:08 [alanr]
q+ to explain versioning use case
18:38:29 [pfps]
q-
18:38:30 [Rinke]
Topbraid uses the xml:base instead of an ontology uri to resolve imports to local files
18:38:34 [jeremy]
Zakim, mute me
18:38:34 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
18:38:49 [jeremy]
yes
18:38:55 [alanr]
q?
18:38:59 [pfps]
I concur with Jeremy
18:38:59 [ivan]
ack sandro
18:39:00 [bmotik]
q+
18:39:04 [jeremy]
jeremy: why does boris's proprosal benefit interoperability?
18:39:19 [jeremy]
jeremy: all the tools have this sort of caching mechanism, of course.
18:39:45 [jeremy]
jeremy: but for interop we should specify the Web as where your documents are stored
18:39:47 [alanr]
+1 to sandro - web uber alle
18:39:57 [ivan]
s/alle/alles/
18:40:00 [pfps]
q+
18:40:23 [jeremy]
jeremy: and it is a tool matter how caching, temporary copies etc. etc.
18:40:25 [Rinke]
s/uber/├╝ber/
18:40:29 [jeremy]
-1 to sandro
18:40:36 [bijan]
q+
18:40:43 [sandro]
sandro: I'd be much more comfortable with this mechanism if it were sold as "here's a manual override" if you really need it.
18:40:47 [evrensirin]
sandro: we should first try ontology URI then manual override
18:40:48 [jeremy]
q+ to argue against sandro for first web then fallback
18:40:57 [bijan]
Does this include file:// uris?
18:41:06 [evrensirin]
boris: in practice, you don't retrieve ontologies from the web
18:41:09 [bijan]
Does this mean you need to synch ontology name and location?
18:41:11 [sandro]
I was NOT saying "web first then fallback". Manual override comes first.
18:41:19 [evrensirin]
boris: most of the time they are local
18:41:28 [alanr]
yes, understood that, apologies for misphrasing
18:41:45 [JeffP]
-1 on most of the time ontologies are local
18:42:01 [evrensirin]
boris: trying web first is fine but it is important to say there is another mechanism
18:42:03 [ivan]
q?
18:42:06 [ivan]
ack alanr
18:42:06 [Zakim]
alanr, you wanted to explain versioning use case
18:42:10 [Rinke]
XML uses the xml:base to state where an xml file is supposedly located
18:42:35 [jeremy]
q-
18:43:07 [evrensirin]
alanr: chair hat off, a use case for imports regarding versioning
18:43:10 [IanH]
q?
18:43:16 [evrensirin]
alanr: multiple versions of the same ontology
18:43:35 [sandro]
jeremy (on irc): * jeremy is happy with Sandro's clarification [since /me things are not recorded]
18:43:41 [pfps]
This seems like http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Imports#Imports_is_by_Location_.28with_Version_extension.29
18:43:56 [evrensirin]
alanr: ontology is same but location for different versions change
18:44:13 [IanH]
q?
18:44:21 [evrensirin]
alanr: a differetn use case then caching
18:44:24 [Rinke]
I think that different versions are *different* ontologies
18:44:30 [IanH]
+1
18:44:41 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:44:41 [Zakim]
pfps was not muted, pfps
18:44:56 [evrensirin]
alanr: local file does not work well with Web
18:45:13 [evrensirin]
alanr: have the mapping in a Web file
18:45:30 [IanH]
q?
18:45:31 [alanr]
q?
18:45:31 [Rinke]
ok, I'll chew on this for a bit
18:45:45 [ivan]
ack bmotik
18:45:46 [bijan]
I tend to treat different versions, esp during development, as "the same" ontology
18:45:54 [sandro]
alan: treating different versions as different ontologies doesn't work for the users I've worked with on this.
18:46:18 [sandro]
boris: true, but using different-location to solve the versioning problem isn't a great solution either.
18:46:24 [evrensirin]
boris: if we want to solve versioning problem we need to look at it independent of imports
18:46:39 [bijan]
name == location is only true of OWL DL; owl full doesn't require that
18:46:57 [alanr]
q?
18:47:37 [evrensirin]
pfps: solution to versioning is same as W3C versioning
18:47:41 [alanr]
q+ to respond to Boris re: versioning/import
18:47:51 [evrensirin]
pfps: as I proposed in the F2F
18:48:30 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
18:48:30 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
18:48:30 [alanr]
ack pfps
18:48:39 [ivan]
ack bijan
18:48:40 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:48:40 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:49:03 [alanr]
what is an ontology name good for?
18:49:44 [pfps]
see the imports page
18:49:58 [alanr]
peter, could you q up to describe your proposal quickly
18:50:09 [evrensirin]
bijan: I work with command line tools and local files
18:50:11 [pfps]
q+
18:50:17 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
18:50:17 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
18:50:30 [evrensirin]
bijan: putting a mapping on the Web does not work for those cases
18:50:41 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
18:50:41 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
18:50:43 [alanr]
ack alanr
18:50:43 [Zakim]
alanr, you wanted to respond to Boris re: versioning/import
18:51:20 [jeremy]
q+ to ask bijan why his use case requires the spec to address it?
18:51:27 [evrensirin]
alanr: I'm reluctant on imports solution without considering versioning
18:51:31 [bmotik]
q+
18:51:47 [Rinke]
Addendum to Bijan's remark: confusion is even worse because there's nothing that relates the RDF representation of an ontology with the classes/axioms in that ontology other than that they are both 'in' the same file
18:51:59 [bijan]
+1 to Rinke
18:52:00 [evrensirin]
alanr: putting a map might not work always but there should be a possiblity to do so
18:52:34 [IanH]
q?
18:52:51 [evrensirin]
alanr: even if the contents might change ontology identity name remains same
18:52:52 [bijan]
Addendum to me: having a tool fail an import because the ontology URI is distinct from the location really frustrated me (Protege 4 had this for a while)
18:53:21 [IanH]
q?
18:53:25 [pfps]
q-
18:53:30 [JeffP]
+1
18:53:32 [Carsten]
ian +1
18:53:32 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
18:53:32 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
18:53:36 [evrensirin]
ian: since alanr is discussing I'll chair this discussion
18:53:37 [ivan]
ack jeremy
18:53:38 [Zakim]
jeremy, you wanted to ask bijan why his use case requires the spec to address it?
18:53:38 [jeremy]
Zakim, unmute me
18:53:41 [Zakim]
jeremy was not muted, jeremy
18:54:30 [bijan]
It's relevant in that right now the discussion in the spec is confusing and tools vary a lot
18:54:46 [bijan]
So anything we do to help the tools converge helps a lot
18:54:53 [jeremy]
Zakim, mute me
18:54:53 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
18:54:54 [IanH]
q?
18:54:57 [alanr]
the problem is that people use multiple tools, jeremy
18:55:01 [ivan]
ack bmotik
18:55:01 [bijan]
q+ to reply to jeremy
18:55:03 [sandro]
zakim, list attendees
18:55:03 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been bijan, +1.312.052.aaaa, Rinke, bmotik, IanH, +1.617.253.aabb, alanr, Ivan, pfps, Elisa_Kendall, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, evrensirin,
18:55:06 [Zakim]
... bcuencag, MarkusK, jeremy, carsten, JeffP
18:55:11 [IanH]
q?
18:55:22 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call
18:55:22 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the call', sandro
18:55:23 [Rinke]
+1 to at least clear up the confusion and *then* decide on what we want to standardise or leave to the tools
18:55:24 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
18:55:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke (muted), bmotik, IanH, alanr, Ivan, pfps (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, evrensirin, bcuencag (muted), jeremy (muted),
18:55:27 [Zakim]
... MarkusK (muted), carsten (muted), JeffP
18:55:30 [IanH]
q?
18:56:00 [evrensirin]
boris: spec should be precise with regards to how imports work
18:56:09 [sandro]
Present: bijan, Rinke, bmotik, IanH, alanr, Ivan, pfps, Elisa_Kendall, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, evrensirin, bcuencag, jeremy, MarkusK, carsten, JeffP
18:56:11 [alanr]
+1 to boris
18:56:20 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
18:56:20 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
18:56:26 [ivan]
ack bijan
18:56:26 [Zakim]
bijan, you wanted to reply to jeremy
18:56:28 [evrensirin]
boris: otherwise developers come up with different solutions
18:56:38 [IanH]
q?
18:56:42 [evrensirin]
bijan: I agree with boris, this is a spec issue
18:56:43 [jeremy]
+1 to clarification
18:57:05 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
18:57:05 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
18:58:18 [evrensirin]
alanr: we are not that far away from a solution
18:58:34 [evrensirin]
alanr: get interested people discuss the issue
18:58:49 [evrensirin]
alanr: after we have consensus that this is a spec issue
18:58:52 [Zakim]
-Elisa_Kendall
18:59:02 [evrensirin]
alanr: maybe do a straw poll
18:59:13 [bijan]
+1 to speccing imports
18:59:17 [bmotik]
+1
18:59:18 [MarkusK]
+1
18:59:18 [JeffP]
+1 spec issue
18:59:19 [pfps]
+1 part of the spec
18:59:21 [bcuencag]
+1
18:59:21 [alanr]
+1
18:59:22 [Rinke]
+1 to spec
18:59:23 [evrensirin]
+1 to spec
18:59:28 [sandro]
STRAWPOLL: The OWL 1.1 Spec should talk about hot to physically locate ontologies
18:59:29 [jeremy]
perhaps: do we want to specify how to locate local copies?
18:59:30 [jeremy]
-1
18:59:32 [sandro]
+1
18:59:35 [ewallace]
0
18:59:37 [ivan]
0
18:59:41 [Carsten]
0
19:00:06 [evrensirin]
ian: majority thinks this is a spec issue
19:00:09 [jeremy]
(I perhaps could be persuaded by peter, since I thought I was agreeing with him)
19:00:18 [jeremy]
Zakim, unmute me
19:00:18 [Zakim]
jeremy should no longer be muted
19:00:46 [JeffP]
(sorry, have to leave now - bye)
19:00:51 [Zakim]
-JeffP
19:00:53 [alanr]
bye jeff
19:01:11 [Rinke]
(have to leave as well...)
19:01:12 [evrensirin]
jeremy: it might do harm to put in spec
19:01:18 [evrensirin]
jeremy: better handled in tools
19:01:29 [Zakim]
-Rinke
19:01:43 [jeremy]
jeremy: that tools should be allowed to compete on non-interoperability issue
19:01:44 [bijan]
I gave an example how OWL 1.0's specing resulted in interop problems
19:01:52 [bijan]
With test cases
19:01:56 [alanr]
Multiple tools use was the other
19:02:00 [bijan]
(interop problem IMHO)
19:02:22 [bmotik]
+1 to bijan
19:02:26 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:02:26 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
19:02:31 [sandro]
Sandro: I agree with Jeremy that it should be in the spec if and only if it's necessary for interoperability. So let's figure out whether it's necessary....
19:02:34 [jeremy]
Zakim, mute me
19:02:34 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
19:02:46 [bijan]
see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Nov/0565.html
19:02:47 [evrensirin]
ian: people involved will dicuss importing issue via email
19:03:12 [evrensirin]
ian: action item for alanr, 3 weeks from now, to arrange imports discussion
19:03:24 [evrensirin]
ian: passing the chair hat back to alanr
19:03:26 [sandro]
ACTION: Alan to organize task force on imports -- due 3 weeks
19:03:26 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-58 - Organize task force on imports -- due 3 weeks [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2007-12-26].
19:04:07 [evrensirin]
alanr: go through issues
19:04:16 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
19:04:16 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
19:04:19 [evrensirin]
alanr: issue 9 by pfps
19:04:29 [bcuencag]
+q
19:04:49 [pfps]
I have nothing to say on the issue.
19:04:54 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:04:54 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
19:05:10 [sandro]
ack bcuencag
19:05:11 [IanH]
q?
19:05:27 [evrensirin]
alanr: bernardo. dow we want to accept this issue?
19:05:52 [evrensirin]
bernardo: I'm not sure if this is RDFS semantics or OWL-Full semantics
19:06:08 [evrensirin]
bernardo: DL-Lite is a proper superset
19:06:29 [evrensirin]
bernardo: worth responding to
19:06:38 [evrensirin]
alanr: issue 10
19:06:47 [evrensirin]
+q
19:06:52 [bmotik]
I believe this is an issue: under the Full semantics, RDFS is not embeddable into any DL fragment
19:06:57 [bijan]
I don't understand why we're accepting that....what document is this an issue against?
19:07:47 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:07:47 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
19:07:53 [Carsten]
+1 alan
19:07:56 [evrensirin]
alanr: reject issue 10 as duplicate of issue 22
19:07:56 [alanr]
q?
19:08:06 [evrensirin]
-q
19:08:07 [alanr]
ack evrensirin
19:08:16 [bcuencag]
zakim, mute me
19:08:16 [Zakim]
bcuencag should now be muted
19:08:16 [zwu2]
zwu2 has joined #owl
19:08:30 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
19:08:30 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
19:09:56 [Zakim]
-carsten
19:10:04 [evrensirin]
alanr: issue 22
19:10:23 [evrensirin]
alanr: I've come up with similar use case
19:10:38 [IanH]
q+
19:10:38 [evrensirin]
alanr: at leats two other people finds it useful
19:10:42 [bijan]
q+
19:10:43 [pfps]
q+
19:10:47 [ivan]
ack IanH
19:10:54 [evrensirin]
alanr: so we can put it in the functional syntax
19:12:05 [bmotik]
Isn't ISSUE-23 somehow subsumed by our general approach to blank nodes?
19:12:05 [bijan]
ack bijan
19:12:05 [ivan]
ack bijan
19:12:14 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
19:12:15 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
19:12:38 [bmotik]
q+
19:13:10 [pfps]
q-
19:13:22 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:13:22 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
19:13:23 [bmotik]
Zakim, unmute me
19:13:23 [Zakim]
bmotik should no longer be muted
19:13:27 [ivan]
ack bmotik
19:13:48 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
19:13:48 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
19:13:50 [jeremy]
(we're still on 22 not 23)
19:14:35 [bijan]
It seems crazy to me without reflection into all syntaxes
19:14:39 [evrensirin]
ian: by accepting an issue we are just saying ti is not crazy to discuss
19:14:45 [evrensirin]
alanr: accept issue 22
19:14:57 [evrensirin]
alanr: moving to issue 23
19:15:01 [jeremy]
suggest merege with issue 3
19:15:40 [ivan]
s/merege/merge/
19:15:53 [evrensirin]
alanr: issue 3 could be slightly different
19:16:06 [evrensirin]
alanr: is there anybody seconding to accept?
19:16:23 [evrensirin]
alanr: reject issue 23 on the basis there is noone seconding
19:16:41 [evrensirin]
alanr: moving to issue 24
19:17:18 [ewallace]
q
19:17:52 [evrensirin]
alanr: combining onotlogies that are incompatible with each other cause inconsitency
19:17:59 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
19:17:59 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
19:18:05 [evrensirin]
alanr: owl:backwardcompatibleWith property
19:18:05 [alanr]
q?
19:18:15 [evrensirin]
ewallace seconding issue 24
19:18:19 [evrensirin]
issue 24 accepted
19:18:31 [bijan]
at the face to face uli and I are tasked to work up a proposal on this front
19:18:35 [evrensirin]
alanr: issue 47
19:18:44 [pfps]
not raised by me - instead taken from the Webont issues
19:18:49 [pfps]
q+
19:18:54 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
19:18:54 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
19:19:09 [evrensirin]
alanr: accept issue 47 based on easy keys proposal
19:19:14 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
19:19:14 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
19:19:25 [bijan]
q+
19:19:28 [IanH]
q?
19:19:30 [evrensirin]
pfps: this is more than easy keys, why tie it to easy keys?
19:19:35 [ivan]
ack pfps
19:19:38 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:19:38 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
19:20:03 [pfps]
ah, then OK
19:20:18 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
19:20:18 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
19:20:30 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:20:30 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
19:20:32 [evrensirin]
alanr: second bijan to accept 47
19:21:04 [evrensirin]
alanr: accepted issue 47
19:21:41 [bijan]
seconded, move on
19:21:42 [evrensirin]
alanr: moving to issue 56
19:21:56 [evrensirin]
alanr: issue 56 accepted
19:22:13 [Zakim]
-jeremy
19:22:21 [jeremy]
oops
19:22:27 [evrensirin]
alanr: issue 60 regarding wine ontology
19:22:34 [jeremy]
a minute or two please to redial
19:22:35 [bmotik]
Isn't this taking the political correctness a tad too far?
19:22:50 [bijan]
Isn't this something for the UFDTF
19:23:25 [Zakim]
+jeremy
19:23:26 [pfps]
is there *any* universal example?
19:23:29 [bijan]
In the primer proposal peter and I are working we're exploring alternative domains
19:23:30 [alanr]
:)
19:23:42 [jeremy]
zakim, mute me
19:23:42 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
19:23:50 [jeremy]
zakim, unmute me
19:23:50 [Zakim]
jeremy should no longer be muted
19:24:06 [evrensirin]
ivan: we chouls accept
19:24:14 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
19:24:14 [Zakim]
pfps was already muted, pfps
19:24:15 [evrensirin]
jeremy: I second it
19:24:23 [jeremy]
zakim, mute me
19:24:23 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
19:24:28 [ewallace]
I think that the example was only used in Guide
19:24:31 [evrensirin]
alanr: issue 60 accepted
19:24:57 [Zhe]
happy holidays!
19:25:25 [evrensirin]
alanr: let's adjourn if there is no other important issue
19:25:34 [Zakim]
-bcuencag
19:25:34 [evrensirin]
alanr: next meeting in two weeks
19:25:57 [bmotik]
bye
19:25:57 [Zakim]
-Evan_Wallace
19:26:02 [Zakim]
-alanr
19:26:03 [Zakim]
-jeremy
19:26:03 [Zakim]
-Zhe
19:26:04 [Zakim]
-Sandro
19:26:04 [Zakim]
-bmotik
19:26:05 [Zakim]
-bijan
19:26:06 [Zakim]
-evrensirin
19:26:07 [Zakim]
-IanH
19:26:09 [Zakim]
-MarkusK
19:26:11 [Zakim]
-Ivan
19:26:14 [evrensirin]
evrensirin has left #owl
19:26:17 [Zakim]
-pfps
19:26:19 [Zakim]
SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
19:26:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were bijan, +1.312.052.aaaa, Rinke, bmotik, IanH, +1.617.253.aabb, alanr, Ivan, pfps, Elisa_Kendall, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, evrensirin, bcuencag, MarkusK, jeremy,
19:26:22 [Zakim]
... carsten, JeffP
19:26:39 [jeremy]
jeremy has left #owl