IRC log of emotion on 2007-12-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:47:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #emotion
14:47:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:48:06 [marc]
zakim, this is INC_EMOXG
14:48:06 [Zakim]
marc, I see INC_EMOXG()10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be INC_EMOXG".
14:48:20 [marc]
zakim, this will be INC_EMOXG
14:48:20 [Zakim]
ok, marc; I see INC_EMOXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:48:26 [Ian]
Ian has joined #emotion
14:48:54 [Ian]
hi mark, bjoern
14:49:12 [marc]
agenda + Introduction and Purpose
14:49:24 [marc]
agenda + Simplifying and prioritising requirements
14:49:35 [marc]
agenda + Options for an EmotionML
14:49:42 [Bjoern]
hi ian, marc
14:49:49 [marc]
agenda + Date of next meeting
14:49:53 [marc]
hi there!
14:51:16 [Zakim]
INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has now started
14:51:23 [Zakim]
14:51:38 [marc]
zakim, ??P24 is Marc
14:51:38 [Zakim]
+Marc; got it
14:52:17 [Zakim]
+ +49.892.aaaa
14:52:19 [Zakim]
14:52:21 [Zakim]
14:52:37 [Bjoern]
Zakim, I am +498928928548
14:52:37 [Zakim]
sorry, Bjoern, I do not see a party named '+498928928548'
14:52:42 [marc]
zakim, aaaa is Björn
14:52:42 [Zakim]
+Björn; got it
14:53:04 [marc]
zakim, who is here?
14:53:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Marc, Björn
14:53:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Ian, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, Bjoern
14:56:11 [Kostas]
Kostas has joined #emotion
14:56:22 [Zakim]
14:56:46 [Zakim]
+ +95177aabb
14:57:17 [marc]
zakim, aabb is Catherine
14:57:17 [Zakim]
+Catherine; got it
14:57:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.302.107.aacc
14:57:42 [marc]
zakim, aacc is Kostas
14:57:42 [Zakim]
+Kostas; got it
14:57:46 [Christian]
Christian has joined #emotion
14:58:22 [paolo]
paolo has joined #emotion
14:59:07 [marc]
Hi Christian and Paolo, could you please join on the phone?
14:59:11 [Zakim]
14:59:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.567.aadd
14:59:53 [Zakim]
+ +49.381.402.aaee
15:00:01 [marc]
zakim, aadd is Bill
15:00:01 [Zakim]
+Bill; got it
15:00:19 [marc]
zakim, aaee is Christian
15:00:19 [Zakim]
+Christian; got it
15:00:33 [paolo]
Scribe: Paolo Baggia
15:00:43 [paolo]
ScribeNick: paolo
15:01:19 [Ian]
no problem
15:01:28 [marc]
zakim, agenda?
15:01:28 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:01:29 [paolo]
15:01:29 [Zakim]
1. Introduction and Purpose [from marc]
15:01:30 [Zakim]
2. Simplifying and prioritising requirements [from marc]
15:01:31 [Zakim]
3. Options for an EmotionML [from marc]
15:01:32 [Zakim]
4. Date of next meeting [from marc]
15:01:50 [paolo]
Chair: Marc Schroeder
15:02:04 [paolo]
Meeting: EMOXG
15:03:19 [paolo]
marc: introduction
15:03:36 [paolo]
marc: You know the charter and the result of last year
15:03:53 [Zakim]
+ +43.153.2aaff
15:03:57 [paolo]
marc: You know the requirements
15:04:06 [marc]
zakim, aaff is Hannes
15:04:06 [Zakim]
+Hannes; got it
15:04:22 [Ian]
15:04:30 [Ian]
i am using it now
15:04:42 [Ian]
i had the same problem
15:04:47 [marc]
zakim, who is here?
15:04:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Marc, Björn, Ian_Wilson (muted), Catherine, Kostas, Paolo_Baggia,Patrizio_Bergallo, Bill, Christian, Hannes
15:04:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see paolo, Christian, Kostas, Ian, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, Bjoern
15:04:56 [paolo]
zakim, who is here?
15:04:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Marc, Björn, Ian_Wilson (muted), Catherine, Kostas, Paolo_Baggia,Patrizio_Bergallo, Bill, Christian, Hannes
15:05:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see paolo, Christian, Kostas, Ian, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, Bjoern
15:05:19 [paolo]
zakim, Paolo_Baggia,Patrizio_Bergallo is Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato
15:05:19 [Zakim]
+Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato; got it
15:05:29 [paolo]
zakim, who is here?
15:05:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Marc, Björn, Ian_Wilson (muted), Catherine, Kostas, Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato, Bill, Christian, Hannes
15:05:29 [Ian]
go to advanced, set the port number to 6665
15:05:34 [Zakim]
On IRC I see paolo, Christian, Kostas, Ian, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, Bjoern
15:05:43 [cpeter]
cpeter has joined #emotion
15:05:45 [jarrold]
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15:05:51 [Ian]
15:06:10 [paolo]
Marc: back to agenda point 1
15:06:34 [paolo]
marc: Paolo suggested to put priority and focus on simple reqs
15:06:42 [paolo]
marc: how we do that?
15:07:05 [paolo]
marc: second point is to have a first draft, then a second one
15:07:31 [paolo]
marc: In the meantime to discuss with VBWG (Voice Browser)
15:07:41 [Bjoern]
15:07:42 [paolo]
... and MMIWG (Multimodal Interaction)
15:07:56 [marc]
next item
15:08:00 [paolo]
Cathrine: fine
15:08:05 [marc]
next item
15:08:47 [paolo]
marc: How do we simplify?
15:09:02 [paolo]
marc: Laurence Devillers is interested in it.
15:09:02 [Bjoern]
volunteers for "who"
15:09:26 [paolo]
next item
15:09:51 [Bjoern]
let's make use case task forces?
15:10:39 [paolo]
Cathrine: simplify with respect of what?
15:10:44 [paolo]
marc: relevance
15:11:10 [paolo]
Bjoern: on use cases
15:12:04 [paolo]
Ian: maybe we can go on the requirement and set a value of 1, 2 or 3
15:12:24 [paolo]
marc: on the use cases, I fear we will re-open the discussion of last year
15:12:41 [Bjoern]
likes 1,2,3 + no oppinion...
15:12:54 [Ian]
must have (1), could have (2), optional (3)
15:12:54 [paolo]
15:13:43 [paolo]
Hannes: I introduced difficult levels during the compilation of use cases
15:14:09 [Ian]
I found the wiki very difficult to figure out.. and amend
15:14:09 [Zakim]
+ +4870aagg
15:14:10 [paolo]
... In theory there was the idea of the people to comment on it.
15:14:47 [paolo]
Hannes: i could add a new table in the Wiki for the comments.
15:15:05 [Ian]
Can we all mute our phones please (61#)
15:15:08 [marc]
zakim, aagg is Myriam
15:15:08 [Zakim]
+Myriam; got it
15:15:19 [paolo]
zakim, aagg is Myriam_Lamolle
15:15:19 [Zakim]
sorry, paolo, I do not recognize a party named 'aagg'
15:15:33 [paolo]
zakim, where is noise?
15:15:35 [Zakim]
sorry, paolo, I do not understand your question
15:15:43 [marc]
zakim, who is making noise?
15:15:53 [Zakim]
marc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ian_Wilson (4%), Catherine (36%), Hannes (95%)
15:16:54 [mlamolle]
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15:17:03 [Ian]
15:18:05 [paolo]
marc: I like to go one by one and assign values
15:18:21 [paolo]
Bioern: add value for "no opinion"
15:18:40 [Ian]
must have (1), could have (2), no opinion (3)
15:19:35 [paolo]
Paolo: There is already a scale for priority of requirements
15:19:51 [paolo]
marc: Paolo would you circulate it?
15:19:55 [paolo]
paolo: yes
15:20:11 [paolo]
ACTION to Paolo circulate priority scale
15:20:34 [paolo]
action: Paolo to circulate priority scale
15:20:56 [paolo]
marc: Hannes would you circulate a summary from the Wiki document
15:21:05 [paolo]
Hannes: ok
15:21:16 [Ian]
w3 previous spec ranking example ->
15:21:23 [paolo]
action: Hannes to circulate short summary from Wiki
15:21:34 [Ian]
must have, should have, nice to have
15:21:45 [Ian]
15:21:55 [Bjoern]
15:22:03 [marc]
Suggest to first set up a questionnaire,
15:22:18 [marc]
... getting people's opinions of what is high or low priorities
15:22:32 [marc]
... and then in the next phone meeting, decide how we proceed
15:23:05 [paolo]
next item
15:23:28 [Bjoern]
likes xml...
15:23:28 [paolo]
marc: This is the most interesting part, but difficult
15:23:43 [paolo]
... we don't know all the options.
15:23:59 [paolo]
marc: I'll go for XML, other options are RDF or others
15:24:14 [paolo]
marc: other decision is flat or deep structure
15:24:18 [Bjoern]
likes deep xml
15:24:23 [paolo]
marc: opinion
15:24:27 [Ian]
OWL ->
15:25:25 [Ian]
RDF ->
15:25:54 [paolo]
Paolo: People should propose strenght or weaknesses
15:26:11 [paolo]
Ian: depens on the application
15:26:32 [paolo]
marc: We should consider different applications
15:26:50 [paolo]
Ian: All of the can be used, but ...
15:27:14 [Ian]
15:27:59 [paolo]
Bill: I worked with OWL, I love your reqs document, I don't know very much of XML
15:28:25 [paolo]
Bill: There are many preexistent onthologies to express times
15:29:08 [paolo]
Bill: There is a lot of predefined knowledge
15:29:39 [paolo]
marc: I know it very little. I cannot express an opinion.
15:29:39 [Ian]
we need to "bone up" quickly
15:29:44 [Ian]
define the parameters
15:30:29 [paolo]
Bill: I could dig around on pre-existing examples or write one.
15:30:45 [paolo]
Bill: It stands on top of RDF and XML.
15:31:52 [paolo]
Ian: about parameters, I think these languages good to be readable
15:32:06 [paolo]
Ian: The parameters is readability, we can set general parameters
15:32:33 [paolo]
Ian: then look to the parameters and make the more fitting
15:32:51 [paolo]
marc: We could first look to the properties of these languages
15:33:02 [paolo]
Hannes: I'd like to understand what we are talking about
15:33:51 [paolo]
Hannes: we have to distinguish syntactic and semantic aspects
15:34:23 [paolo]
marc: Human will write by hand, e.g XML while OWL is for automatic reasoning
15:34:45 [paolo]
Ian: another is weight for protocols
15:35:46 [paolo]
paolo: another parameter is to be easy to integrate in another language
15:36:19 [paolo]
paolo: SSML for TTS and VoiceXML for ASR
15:36:31 [paolo]
Ian: for that is better XML
15:37:21 [marc]
15:37:26 [Ian]
start with simple XML and expand out as necessary
15:37:34 [Ian]
EARL is great actually
15:37:44 [paolo]
marc: we could start from EARL
15:37:48 [Ian]
ok, we can go home now... :)
15:37:51 [marc]
15:37:56 [Bjoern]
likes starting with EARL on an xml basis and only expand if necessary...
15:38:18 [marc]
Design principle for EARL was: "Simple cases should look simple"
15:39:28 [Bjoern]
scribe: Bjoern Schuller
15:39:34 [paolo1]
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15:39:39 [Ian]
i think in the next week or so we should all become basically familiar with the pros and cons of rdf/xml/owl
15:39:46 [Bjoern]
scribenick: bjoern
15:39:53 [Ian]
i like to start with EARL
15:40:24 [Ian]
its easier to start from something existing then adapt
15:40:37 [Bjoern]
marc: not needed to push it through, but just start based on EARL/XML
15:40:40 [paolo]
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15:40:48 [Ian]
very quiet bill
15:41:10 [paolo]
Scribenick: paolo
15:41:29 [paolo]
Bill: pick a portion of reqs document to do an OWL rendering
15:41:38 [Ian]
15:41:42 [paolo]
Bill: other people can do XML or EARL
15:41:52 [paolo]
Bill: then compare
15:41:56 [Ian]
can anyone else do rdf?
15:42:05 [paolo]
marc: fine, can you pick some part
15:42:09 [Ian]
someone with experience
15:42:27 [paolo]
action: Bill to select part of requirement and to do OWL
15:42:40 [marc]
Do we have anyone with experience in RDF?
15:42:47 [Bjoern]
15:42:54 [Ian]
i can try
15:43:04 [Ian]
yes... !
15:43:10 [paolo]
action: Ian to do the proposal in RDF
15:43:23 [Ian]
15:43:33 [Ian]
do the same portion
15:43:56 [mlamolle]
i can try also
15:44:04 [Ian]
Bill, I will ask your advice too
15:44:13 [mlamolle]
with another portion
15:44:23 [mlamolle]
15:44:32 [paolo]
paolo has joined #emotion
15:44:32 [mlamolle]
rdf or owl
15:44:43 [Ian]
what about the same portion in XML?
15:44:52 [Bjoern]
could do in xml
15:44:55 [mlamolle]
15:45:04 [mlamolle]
we start with EARL
15:45:07 [paolo]
marc: the easiest is that you (Bill, Ian, Myriam) to communicate offline.
15:45:13 [Ian]
15:45:15 [mlamolle]
with flat or deep structure
15:45:23 [mlamolle]
like the fisrt proposition
15:45:35 [mlamolle]
15:45:49 [paolo]
action: Bjoern to do it in XML
15:45:58 [paolo]
marc: is it flat or deep?
15:46:06 [paolo]
Bjoern: probably flat
15:46:08 [mlamolle]
what do you want...
15:46:16 [Ian]
15:46:30 [mlamolle]
15:47:01 [Bjoern]
does flat xml structure example.
15:47:02 [mlamolle]
15:47:12 [paolo]
action: Myriam in XML with deep structure
15:47:19 [Ian]
do we understand what "deep" and "flat" means?
15:47:33 [paolo]
rrsagent, format minutes
15:47:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate paolo
15:47:38 [Bjoern]
15:47:42 [Ian]
15:47:43 [mlamolle]
flat structure impliees the use of XML attributes
15:48:02 [Ian]
ok, thats what i thought, thanks
15:48:03 [mlamolle]
and deep structure implies simple element or complex element...
15:48:33 [paolo]
rrsagent, make log public
15:48:49 [Bjoern]
until 10.01.2008
15:49:08 [paolo]
marc: deadline should be longer, not realisticc
15:50:49 [paolo]
marc: next call will be Wednesday very early.
15:51:05 [Ian]
any day is ok for me
15:51:32 [paolo]
marc: week Jan 28?
15:51:33 [Ian]
15:51:36 [paolo]
15:51:41 [mlamolle]
15:51:46 [Bjoern]
15:52:09 [mlamolle]
15:52:10 [Ian]
15:52:47 [paolo]
marc: work done for the meeting.
15:53:10 [paolo]
marc: I'll do the poll for the day
15:53:24 [paolo]
next item
15:53:45 [paolo]
Topic: item 4
15:54:02 [paolo]
marc: thanks to all the participants
15:54:08 [Ian]
thank you, good to get back to it
15:54:11 [mlamolle]
happy christmas
15:54:12 [paolo]
marc: best wishes and happy new year
15:54:12 [Ian]
15:54:14 [mlamolle]
15:54:16 [paolo]
15:54:17 [Zakim]
15:54:18 [Zakim]
15:54:18 [Zakim]
15:54:18 [Bjoern]
15:54:19 [Zakim]
15:54:20 [Zakim]
15:54:20 [jarrold]
15:54:20 [Zakim]
15:54:22 [Zakim]
15:54:24 [Zakim]
15:54:26 [Zakim]
15:54:28 [Zakim]
15:54:31 [Kostas]
15:54:32 [Zakim]
INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has ended
15:54:34 [Zakim]
Attendees were Marc, +49.892.aaaa, Björn, Ian_Wilson, +95177aabb, Catherine, +1.302.107.aacc, Kostas, +1.512.567.aadd, +49.381.402.aaee, Bill, Christian, +43.153.2aaff, Hannes,
15:54:37 [Zakim]
... Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato, +4870aagg, Myriam
15:54:46 [paolo]
rrsagent, format minutes
15:54:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate paolo
15:54:51 [jarrold]
just in case jarrold is bill and my email is
15:55:00 [jarrold]
jarrold has left #emotion
15:55:32 [marc]
15:55:37 [marc]
thanks a lot, paolo!!
15:56:00 [marc]
Will you have time to clean up those minutes a little bit?
15:56:14 [marc]
You can send the cleaned up version to me, and I will upload and circulate.
15:56:45 [paolo]
do you need both HTML and text or only text
15:56:51 [marc]
just html
15:57:08 [marc]
i can convert to text only if needed.
15:57:09 [paolo]
ok, I'll try to do something on it.
15:57:18 [marc]
that's excellent, thanks a lot!
15:57:21 [paolo]
15:57:30 [marc]
15:59:08 [marc]
zakim, bye
15:59:08 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #emotion
15:59:13 [marc]
rrsagent, bye
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in :
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Paolo to circulate priority scale [1]
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Hannes to circulate short summary from Wiki [2]
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bill to select part of requirement and to do OWL [3]
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ian to do the proposal in RDF [4]
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bjoern to do it in XML [5]
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Myriam in XML with deep structure [6]
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in