IRC log of emotion on 2007-12-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:47:58 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #emotion

14:47:58 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-irc

14:48:06 [marc]

zakim, this is INC_EMOXG

14:48:06 [Zakim]

marc, I see INC_EMOXG()10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be INC_EMOXG".

14:48:20 [marc]

zakim, this will be INC_EMOXG

14:48:20 [Zakim]

ok, marc; I see INC_EMOXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

14:48:26 [Ian]

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14:48:54 [Ian]

hi mark, bjoern

14:49:12 [marc]

agenda + Introduction and Purpose

14:49:24 [marc]

agenda + Simplifying and prioritising requirements

14:49:35 [marc]

agenda + Options for an EmotionML

14:49:42 [Bjoern]

hi ian, marc

14:49:49 [marc]

agenda + Date of next meeting

14:49:53 [marc]

hi there!

14:51:16 [Zakim]

INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has now started

14:51:23 [Zakim]

+??P24

14:51:38 [marc]

zakim, ??P24 is Marc

14:51:38 [Zakim]

+Marc; got it

14:52:17 [Zakim]

+ +49.892.aaaa

14:52:19 [Zakim]

-Marc

14:52:21 [Zakim]

+Marc

14:52:37 [Bjoern]

Zakim, I am +498928928548

14:52:37 [Zakim]

sorry, Bjoern, I do not see a party named '+498928928548'

14:52:42 [marc]

zakim, aaaa is Björn

14:52:42 [Zakim]

+Björn; got it

14:53:04 [marc]

zakim, who is here?

14:53:04 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Marc, Björn

14:53:05 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Ian, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, Bjoern

14:56:11 [Kostas]

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14:56:22 [Zakim]

+Ian_Wilson

14:56:46 [Zakim]

+ +95177aabb

14:57:17 [marc]

zakim, aabb is Catherine

14:57:17 [Zakim]

+Catherine; got it

14:57:20 [Zakim]

+ +1.302.107.aacc

14:57:42 [marc]

zakim, aacc is Kostas

14:57:42 [Zakim]

+Kostas; got it

14:57:46 [Christian]

Christian has joined #emotion

14:58:22 [paolo]

paolo has joined #emotion

14:59:07 [marc]

Hi Christian and Paolo, could you please join on the phone?

14:59:11 [Zakim]

+Paolo_Baggia,Patrizio_Bergallo

14:59:38 [Zakim]

+ +1.512.567.aadd

14:59:53 [Zakim]

+ +49.381.402.aaee

15:00:01 [marc]

zakim, aadd is Bill

15:00:01 [Zakim]

+Bill; got it

15:00:19 [marc]

zakim, aaee is Christian

15:00:19 [Zakim]

+Christian; got it

15:00:33 [paolo]

Scribe: Paolo Baggia

15:00:43 [paolo]

ScribeNick: paolo

15:01:19 [Ian]

no problem

15:01:28 [marc]

zakim, agenda?

15:01:28 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

15:01:29 [paolo]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2007Dec/0004.html

15:01:29 [Zakim]

1. Introduction and Purpose [from marc]

15:01:30 [Zakim]

2. Simplifying and prioritising requirements [from marc]

15:01:31 [Zakim]

3. Options for an EmotionML [from marc]

15:01:32 [Zakim]

4. Date of next meeting [from marc]

15:01:50 [paolo]

Chair: Marc Schroeder

15:02:04 [paolo]

Meeting: EMOXG

15:03:19 [paolo]

marc: introduction

15:03:36 [paolo]

marc: You know the charter and the result of last year

15:03:53 [Zakim]

+ +43.153.2aaff

15:03:57 [paolo]

marc: You know the requirements

15:04:06 [marc]

zakim, aaff is Hannes

15:04:06 [Zakim]

+Hannes; got it

15:04:22 [Ian]

try www.ircatwork.com

15:04:30 [Ian]

i am using it now

15:04:42 [Ian]

i had the same problem

15:04:47 [marc]

zakim, who is here?

15:04:48 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Marc, Björn, Ian_Wilson (muted), Catherine, Kostas, Paolo_Baggia,Patrizio_Bergallo, Bill, Christian, Hannes

15:04:51 [Zakim]

On IRC I see paolo, Christian, Kostas, Ian, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, Bjoern

15:04:56 [paolo]

zakim, who is here?

15:04:56 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Marc, Björn, Ian_Wilson (muted), Catherine, Kostas, Paolo_Baggia,Patrizio_Bergallo, Bill, Christian, Hannes

15:05:03 [Zakim]

On IRC I see paolo, Christian, Kostas, Ian, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, Bjoern

15:05:19 [paolo]

zakim, Paolo_Baggia,Patrizio_Bergallo is Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato

15:05:19 [Zakim]

+Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato; got it

15:05:29 [paolo]

zakim, who is here?

15:05:29 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Marc, Björn, Ian_Wilson (muted), Catherine, Kostas, Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato, Bill, Christian, Hannes

15:05:29 [Ian]

go to advanced, set the port number to 6665

15:05:34 [Zakim]

On IRC I see paolo, Christian, Kostas, Ian, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, Bjoern

15:05:43 [cpeter]

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15:05:45 [jarrold]

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15:05:51 [Ian]

doh!

15:06:10 [paolo]

Marc: back to agenda point 1

15:06:34 [paolo]

marc: Paolo suggested to put priority and focus on simple reqs

15:06:42 [paolo]

marc: how we do that?

15:07:05 [paolo]

marc: second point is to have a first draft, then a second one

15:07:31 [paolo]

marc: In the meantime to discuss with VBWG (Voice Browser)

15:07:41 [Bjoern]

agrees.

15:07:42 [paolo]

... and MMIWG (Multimodal Interaction)

15:07:56 [marc]

next item

15:08:00 [paolo]

Cathrine: fine

15:08:05 [marc]

next item

15:08:47 [paolo]

marc: How do we simplify?

15:09:02 [paolo]

marc: Laurence Devillers is interested in it.

15:09:02 [Bjoern]

volunteers for "who"

15:09:26 [paolo]

next item

15:09:51 [Bjoern]

let's make use case task forces?

15:10:39 [paolo]

Cathrine: simplify with respect of what?

15:10:44 [paolo]

marc: relevance

15:11:10 [paolo]

Bjoern: on use cases

15:12:04 [paolo]

Ian: maybe we can go on the requirement and set a value of 1, 2 or 3

15:12:24 [paolo]

marc: on the use cases, I fear we will re-open the discussion of last year

15:12:41 [Bjoern]

likes 1,2,3 + no oppinion...

15:12:54 [Ian]

must have (1), could have (2), optional (3)

15:12:54 [paolo]

s/oppinion/opinion/

15:13:43 [paolo]

Hannes: I introduced difficult levels during the compilation of use cases

15:14:09 [Ian]

I found the wiki very difficult to figure out.. and amend

15:14:09 [Zakim]

+ +4870aagg

15:14:10 [paolo]

... In theory there was the idea of the people to comment on it.

15:14:47 [paolo]

Hannes: i could add a new table in the Wiki for the comments.

15:15:05 [Ian]

Can we all mute our phones please (61#)

15:15:08 [marc]

zakim, aagg is Myriam

15:15:08 [Zakim]

+Myriam; got it

15:15:19 [paolo]

zakim, aagg is Myriam_Lamolle

15:15:19 [Zakim]

sorry, paolo, I do not recognize a party named 'aagg'

15:15:33 [paolo]

zakim, where is noise?

15:15:35 [Zakim]

sorry, paolo, I do not understand your question

15:15:43 [marc]

zakim, who is making noise?

15:15:53 [Zakim]

marc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ian_Wilson (4%), Catherine (36%), Hannes (95%)

15:16:54 [mlamolle]

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15:17:03 [Ian]

ok

15:18:05 [paolo]

marc: I like to go one by one and assign values

15:18:21 [paolo]

Bioern: add value for "no opinion"

15:18:40 [Ian]

must have (1), could have (2), no opinion (3)

15:19:35 [paolo]

Paolo: There is already a scale for priority of requirements

15:19:51 [paolo]

marc: Paolo would you circulate it?

15:19:55 [paolo]

paolo: yes

15:20:11 [paolo]

ACTION to Paolo circulate priority scale

15:20:34 [paolo]

action: Paolo to circulate priority scale

15:20:56 [paolo]

marc: Hannes would you circulate a summary from the Wiki document

15:21:05 [paolo]

Hannes: ok

15:21:16 [Ian]

w3 previous spec ranking example -> http://www.w3.org/TR/voice-dialog-reqs/

15:21:23 [paolo]

action: Hannes to circulate short summary from Wiki

15:21:34 [Ian]

must have, should have, nice to have

15:21:45 [Ian]

ok

15:21:55 [Bjoern]

ok

15:22:03 [marc]

Suggest to first set up a questionnaire,

15:22:18 [marc]

... getting people's opinions of what is high or low priorities

15:22:32 [marc]

... and then in the next phone meeting, decide how we proceed

15:23:05 [paolo]

next item

15:23:28 [Bjoern]

likes xml...

15:23:28 [paolo]

marc: This is the most interesting part, but difficult

15:23:43 [paolo]

... we don't know all the options.

15:23:59 [paolo]

marc: I'll go for XML, other options are RDF or others

15:24:14 [paolo]

marc: other decision is flat or deep structure

15:24:18 [Bjoern]

likes deep xml

15:24:23 [paolo]

marc: opinion

15:24:27 [Ian]

OWL -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Ontology_Language

15:25:25 [Ian]

RDF -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework

15:25:54 [paolo]

Paolo: People should propose strenght or weaknesses

15:26:11 [paolo]

Ian: depens on the application

15:26:32 [paolo]

marc: We should consider different applications

15:26:50 [paolo]

Ian: All of the can be used, but ...

15:27:14 [Ian]

quiet

15:27:59 [paolo]

Bill: I worked with OWL, I love your reqs document, I don't know very much of XML

15:28:25 [paolo]

Bill: There are many preexistent onthologies to express times

15:29:08 [paolo]

Bill: There is a lot of predefined knowledge

15:29:39 [paolo]

marc: I know it very little. I cannot express an opinion.

15:29:39 [Ian]

we need to "bone up" quickly

15:29:44 [Ian]

define the parameters

15:30:29 [paolo]

Bill: I could dig around on pre-existing examples or write one.

15:30:45 [paolo]

Bill: It stands on top of RDF and XML.

15:31:52 [paolo]

Ian: about parameters, I think these languages good to be readable

15:32:06 [paolo]

Ian: The parameters is readability, we can set general parameters

15:32:33 [paolo]

Ian: then look to the parameters and make the more fitting

15:32:51 [paolo]

marc: We could first look to the properties of these languages

15:33:02 [paolo]

Hannes: I'd like to understand what we are talking about

15:33:51 [paolo]

Hannes: we have to distinguish syntactic and semantic aspects

15:34:23 [paolo]

marc: Human will write by hand, e.g XML while OWL is for automatic reasoning

15:34:45 [paolo]

Ian: another is weight for protocols

15:35:46 [paolo]

paolo: another parameter is to be easy to integrate in another language

15:36:19 [paolo]

paolo: SSML for TTS and VoiceXML for ASR

15:36:31 [paolo]

Ian: for that is better XML

15:37:21 [marc]

EARL

15:37:26 [Ian]

start with simple XML and expand out as necessary

15:37:34 [Ian]

EARL is great actually

15:37:44 [paolo]

marc: we could start from EARL

15:37:48 [Ian]

ok, we can go home now... :)

15:37:51 [marc]

http://emotion-research.net/earl

15:37:56 [Bjoern]

likes starting with EARL on an xml basis and only expand if necessary...

15:38:18 [marc]

Design principle for EARL was: "Simple cases should look simple"

15:39:28 [Bjoern]

scribe: Bjoern Schuller

15:39:34 [paolo1]

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15:39:39 [Ian]

i think in the next week or so we should all become basically familiar with the pros and cons of rdf/xml/owl

15:39:46 [Bjoern]

scribenick: bjoern

15:39:53 [Ian]

i like to start with EARL

15:40:24 [Ian]

its easier to start from something existing then adapt

15:40:37 [Bjoern]

marc: not needed to push it through, but just start based on EARL/XML

15:40:40 [paolo]

paolo has joined #emotion

15:40:48 [Ian]

very quiet bill

15:41:10 [paolo]

Scribenick: paolo

15:41:29 [paolo]

Bill: pick a portion of reqs document to do an OWL rendering

15:41:38 [Ian]

nice

15:41:42 [paolo]

Bill: other people can do XML or EARL

15:41:52 [paolo]

Bill: then compare

15:41:56 [Ian]

can anyone else do rdf?

15:42:05 [paolo]

marc: fine, can you pick some part

15:42:09 [Ian]

someone with experience

15:42:27 [paolo]

action: Bill to select part of requirement and to do OWL

15:42:40 [marc]

Do we have anyone with experience in RDF?

15:42:47 [Bjoern]

no...

15:42:54 [Ian]

i can try

15:43:04 [Ian]

yes... !

15:43:10 [paolo]

action: Ian to do the proposal in RDF

15:43:23 [Ian]

right

15:43:33 [Ian]

do the same portion

15:43:56 [mlamolle]

i can try also

15:44:04 [Ian]

Bill, I will ask your advice too

15:44:13 [mlamolle]

with another portion

15:44:23 [mlamolle]

ok

15:44:32 [paolo]

paolo has joined #emotion

15:44:32 [mlamolle]

rdf or owl

15:44:43 [Ian]

what about the same portion in XML?

15:44:52 [Bjoern]

could do in xml

15:44:55 [mlamolle]

yes

15:45:04 [mlamolle]

we start with EARL

15:45:07 [paolo]

marc: the easiest is that you (Bill, Ian, Myriam) to communicate offline.

15:45:13 [Ian]

ok

15:45:15 [mlamolle]

with flat or deep structure

15:45:23 [mlamolle]

like the fisrt proposition

15:45:35 [mlamolle]

ok

15:45:49 [paolo]

action: Bjoern to do it in XML

15:45:58 [paolo]

marc: is it flat or deep?

15:46:06 [paolo]

Bjoern: probably flat

15:46:08 [mlamolle]

what do you want...

15:46:16 [Ian]

deep

15:46:30 [mlamolle]

ok

15:47:01 [Bjoern]

does flat xml structure example.

15:47:02 [mlamolle]

yes

15:47:12 [paolo]

action: Myriam in XML with deep structure

15:47:19 [Ian]

do we understand what "deep" and "flat" means?

15:47:33 [paolo]

rrsagent, format minutes

15:47:33 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-minutes.html paolo

15:47:38 [Bjoern]

yes.

15:47:42 [Ian]

ok

15:47:43 [mlamolle]

flat structure impliees the use of XML attributes

15:48:02 [Ian]

ok, thats what i thought, thanks

15:48:03 [mlamolle]

and deep structure implies simple element or complex element...

15:48:33 [paolo]

rrsagent, make log public

15:48:49 [Bjoern]

until 10.01.2008

15:49:08 [paolo]

marc: deadline should be longer, not realisticc

15:50:49 [paolo]

marc: next call will be Wednesday very early.

15:51:05 [Ian]

any day is ok for me

15:51:32 [paolo]

marc: week Jan 28?

15:51:33 [Ian]

ok

15:51:36 [paolo]

ok

15:51:41 [mlamolle]

ok

15:51:46 [Bjoern]

ok

15:52:09 [mlamolle]

yes

15:52:10 [Ian]

ok

15:52:47 [paolo]

marc: work done for the meeting.

15:53:10 [paolo]

marc: I'll do the poll for the day

15:53:24 [paolo]

next item

15:53:45 [paolo]

Topic: item 4

15:54:02 [paolo]

marc: thanks to all the participants

15:54:08 [Ian]

thank you, good to get back to it

15:54:11 [mlamolle]

happy christmas

15:54:12 [paolo]

marc: best wishes and happy new year

15:54:12 [Ian]

bye

15:54:14 [mlamolle]

bye

15:54:16 [paolo]

bye

15:54:17 [Zakim]

-Christian

15:54:18 [Zakim]

-Hannes

15:54:18 [Zakim]

-Kostas

15:54:18 [Bjoern]

bye

15:54:19 [Zakim]

-Marc

15:54:20 [Zakim]

-Ian_Wilson

15:54:20 [jarrold]

bye

15:54:20 [Zakim]

-Catherine

15:54:22 [Zakim]

-Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato

15:54:24 [Zakim]

-Myriam

15:54:26 [Zakim]

-Björn

15:54:28 [Zakim]

-Bill

15:54:31 [Kostas]

bye

15:54:32 [Zakim]

INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has ended

15:54:34 [Zakim]

Attendees were Marc, +49.892.aaaa, Björn, Ian_Wilson, +95177aabb, Catherine, +1.302.107.aacc, Kostas, +1.512.567.aadd, +49.381.402.aaee, Bill, Christian, +43.153.2aaff, Hannes,

15:54:37 [Zakim]

... Paolo_Baggia,Enrico_Zovato, +4870aagg, Myriam

15:54:46 [paolo]

rrsagent, format minutes

15:54:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-minutes.html paolo

15:54:51 [jarrold]

just in case jarrold is bill and my email is jarrold@ai.sri.com

15:55:00 [jarrold]

jarrold has left #emotion

15:55:32 [marc]

yes

15:55:37 [marc]

thanks a lot, paolo!!

15:56:00 [marc]

Will you have time to clean up those minutes a little bit?

15:56:14 [marc]

You can send the cleaned up version to me, and I will upload and circulate.

15:56:45 [paolo]

do you need both HTML and text or only text

15:56:51 [marc]

just html

15:57:08 [marc]

i can convert to text only if needed.

15:57:09 [paolo]

ok, I'll try to do something on it.

15:57:18 [marc]

that's excellent, thanks a lot!

15:57:21 [paolo]

bye

15:57:30 [marc]

bye!

15:59:08 [marc]

zakim, bye

15:59:08 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #emotion

15:59:13 [marc]

rrsagent, bye

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-actions.rdf :

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Paolo to circulate priority scale [1]

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-irc#T15-20-34

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Hannes to circulate short summary from Wiki [2]

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-irc#T15-21-23

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Bill to select part of requirement and to do OWL [3]

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-irc#T15-42-27

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ian to do the proposal in RDF [4]

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-irc#T15-43-10

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Bjoern to do it in XML [5]

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-irc#T15-45-49

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Myriam in XML with deep structure [6]

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-emotion-irc#T15-47-12