IRC log of rdfa on 2007-12-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:04:29 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

16:04:29 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc

16:04:53 [ShaneM]

rrsagent, meeting is public

16:04:55 [msporny]

http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html

16:05:03 [benadida]

http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent

16:05:30 [benadida]

Meeting: RDFa Task Force

16:05:34 [benadida]

Chair: Ben

16:05:43 [benadida]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0077.html

16:06:26 [ShaneM]

scribe: ShaneM

16:06:26 [benadida]

Scribe: ShaneM

16:06:34 [benadida]

ScribeNick: ShaneM

16:09:17 [ShaneM]

Topic: Action Items

16:09:45 [benadida]

actions -> http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

16:09:51 [Ralph]

Ralph has joined #rdfa

16:10:10 [Zakim]

+Ralph

16:10:25 [Simone]

Zakim, passcode please?

16:10:25 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Simone

16:10:44 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please make record public

16:10:46 [markbirbeck_]

markbirbeck_ has joined #rdfa

16:10:46 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Ben to respond to comment on follow-your-nose [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] -- continues

16:10:47 [Zakim]

+??P32

16:11:01 [Simone]

Zakim, ??P32 is me

16:11:01 [Zakim]

+Simone; got it

16:11:20 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Manu to add test cases for @instanceof combined with hanging @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] --done

16:12:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

16:12:39 [ShaneM]

[DONE] ACTION: Manu to put together set of test cases for hanging @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

16:13:04 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Ralph followup with Dublin Core on what's going on with their namespace URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

16:13:05 [ShaneM]

--continues

16:13:24 [Ralph]

rrsagent, drop action 2

16:13:36 [ShaneM]

[DONE] ACTION: Ben check that browsers do preserve whitespace in attribute values [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

16:13:43 [ShaneM]

Whitespace is always preserved in all attribute values.

16:13:49 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

16:13:52 [ShaneM]

--continues

16:13:59 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

16:14:01 [ShaneM]

--continues

16:14:44 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

16:14:46 [ShaneM]

--continues

16:14:54 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

16:14:59 [ShaneM]

--continues

16:15:40 [ShaneM]

TOPIC: Test Case Review

16:16:25 [msporny]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0071.html

16:16:53 [msporny]

http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

16:17:02 [ShaneM]

Test Case 46...

16:17:56 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Shane to add anchors to rdfa-syntax spec for element and attribute definitions

16:18:29 [markbirbeck_]

I can't quite hear properly...are we on test 46?

16:21:39 [ShaneM]

ben and mark agree on an interpretation, but that does not match the current version of the test. There are two bnodes generated.

16:22:51 [ShaneM]

manu seems to get what they are saying.

16:22:54 [ShaneM]

this test remains on hold.

16:24:21 [msporny]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0070.html

16:24:36 [ShaneM]

Test Case 51...

16:26:11 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

16:26:34 [Ralph]

Shane: isn't @about="" the default?

16:26:35 [Ralph]

Mark: yep

16:26:44 [Zakim]

+ +1.540.641.aaaa

16:26:53 [Ralph]

zakim, aaaa is Manu

16:26:53 [Zakim]

+Manu; got it

16:27:17 [Zakim]

-benadida

16:27:38 [Zakim]

+benadida

16:29:40 [ShaneM]

Purpose of the change is to set the type of the entire document.

16:30:36 [ShaneM]

Mark is concerned that this test is not using the *right* way to set the document type.

16:30:49 [ShaneM]

Ralph says that is probably true, but this test case is still valid.

16:30:55 [ShaneM]

Shane agrees.

16:31:48 [ShaneM]

Mark is conerned that the right way to set document type (@instanceof on head) is probably not being tested yet.

16:32:19 [Ralph]

+1 to adding another test for the HEAD alternative to the @about="" @instanceof case

16:32:58 [ShaneM]

The title of test 51 is also misleading. It should be single property and about.

16:33:47 [ShaneM]

Ralpha restates the philosophy that "more test cases is better than too few". If the title is misleading, we should change it.

16:33:55 [Ralph]

s/Ralpha/Ben/

16:34:27 [markbirbeck_]

<head instanceof="foaf:Document">

16:34:29 [markbirbeck_]

...

16:34:32 [markbirbeck_]

</head>

16:34:33 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Manu create an additional test case where @instanceof on head is used to set the global document type.

16:35:20 [ShaneM]

Mark: this works because @about="" is implied on the head element.

16:35:57 [msporny]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0025.html

16:36:07 [msporny]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0071.html

16:36:11 [ShaneM]

Test Case 56...

16:38:13 [ShaneM]

Everyone agrees that this is fine. Approved.

16:38:25 [ShaneM]

Test Case 57...

16:39:09 [Zakim]

-benadida

16:39:54 [Zakim]

+benadida

16:40:18 [ShaneM]

This one also seems fine. Approved.

16:40:28 [ShaneM]

Test Case 58...

16:40:45 [Ralph]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0028.html

16:41:42 [ShaneM]

The SPARQL needs to have the angle brackets removed from the bnodes.

16:42:47 [ShaneM]

Approved modulo fixing the SPARQL (remove angle brackets from bnodes)

16:43:01 [Ralph]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0042.html

16:43:01 [ShaneM]

Test Case 59...

16:43:16 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0042.html proposed test 59

16:43:57 [ShaneM]

Manu asks of @instanceof applies to @resource. Ben says it does not, and Mark agrees.

16:44:03 [ShaneM]

s/of/if/

16:46:46 [ShaneM]

Discussion about @src and whether it should be a subject or an object.....

16:48:47 [benadida]

action: Ben to write up example and explanation of @src as subject for IMG

16:51:07 [markbirbeck_]

This is from Ivan's email:

16:51:10 [markbirbeck_]

- an old use case for @instanceof was the

16:51:10 [markbirbeck_]

<div about="#a" >

16:51:10 [markbirbeck_]

<img rel="a:b" src="http://a.b.c" instanceof="w:p"/>

16:51:10 [markbirbeck_]

</div>

16:51:10 [markbirbeck_]

where we wanted rdf:type to apply on <http://a.b.c>. My reading from

16:51:11 [markbirbeck_]

these rules is that this will not happen...

16:51:33 [markbirbeck_]

It's in the thread called "New processing rules", and is his first reply to me.

16:51:43 [ShaneM]

This test case is consistent with the current rules.

16:52:05 [ShaneM]

Approved, but note that interpretation might change if Ben's action results in a change.

16:52:13 [markbirbeck_]

Would be interesting to know if Ivan would be happy with:

16:52:13 [ShaneM]

Test Case 60...

16:52:14 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0043.html proposed test 60

16:52:29 [markbirbeck_]

<div about="#a" rel="a:b">

16:52:45 [markbirbeck_]

<img src="http://a.b.c" instanceof="w:p"/>

16:52:48 [markbirbeck_]

</div>

16:53:20 [ShaneM]

Ralph likes this test!

16:53:29 [ShaneM]

No objections. Approved.

16:53:35 [ShaneM]

Test Case 61...

16:53:44 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0059.html proposed test 61

16:55:26 [ShaneM]

The SPARQL is slightly wrong - the prefix for default CURIEs is http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#

16:55:39 [ShaneM]

Approved, after fixing the default prefix.

16:56:04 [ShaneM]

Test Case 62...

16:56:49 [ShaneM]

Shane notes that the href should really be for "prevChapter", not "nextChapter".

16:57:32 [ShaneM]

Mark suggests we use a relative URI for the next test / previous test as part of the test.

16:57:32 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0060.html proposed test 62

16:58:55 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Manu to add test cases to ensure URLs are resolved relative to base correctly against @about, @resource, and @href.

16:59:54 [ShaneM]

Change the @href in test case 62 to 0061.html for the "prev". Also change the text in the document so it is more consistent. And the vocab URI prefix.

17:01:08 [ShaneM]

s/0061/0063/

17:02:10 [ShaneM]

URI in the SPARQL should be 0063 as well ( we are a "rev" of a "prev")

17:02:28 [ShaneM]

Manu requests this remain on hold 'cause there are a lot of changes.

17:03:46 [ShaneM]

Test Case 63...

17:03:47 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0061.html proposed test 63

17:04:37 [ShaneM]

Change title to "empty prefix". Change CURIE default prefix to vocab#.

17:05:33 [ShaneM]

Also change the rel to reference the next test case.

17:05:48 [ShaneM]

Approved after making the above changes.

17:05:52 [ShaneM]

Test Case 64...

17:06:13 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0068.html proposed test 64

17:10:17 [ShaneM]

Shane was confused about where "_:dan" lives. It doesn't really live in this example, but that's okay.

17:11:20 [ShaneM]

Ralph suggests we change the example to use foaf:inbox instead of foaf:knows

17:12:57 [Ralph]

s/:inbox/:mbox/

17:13:05 [ShaneM]

Ben suggests we leave it alone - its a valid test as is.

17:13:56 [ShaneM]

Simplest change is to get away from a mailto

17:16:29 [ShaneM]

Approved modulo changing the URL to an href for Libby.

17:16:56 [ShaneM]

ACTION: Ralph to check with Libby and make sure it is okay for us to use her address.

17:17:01 [ShaneM]

Test Case 65...

17:17:40 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Dec/0067.html proposed test 65

17:18:04 [ShaneM]

Approved with the change that there should be no nagle brackets around bnodes in the SPARQL.

17:18:33 [ShaneM]

Test Cases 47, 48, 52, and 53...

17:18:51 [ShaneM]

These tests have @instanceof apply to @resource. Since this is no longer the case...

17:19:30 [ShaneM]

TOPIC: Chaining Rules

17:19:45 [ShaneM]

Ben asked if anyone objects to the path we are going down. No one did.

17:19:56 [benadida]

PROPOSE that we accept the Birbeck Chaining Rules (with some edge cases to be worked out soon)

17:20:27 [ShaneM]

RESOLVED: we accept the Birbeck Chaining Rules (with some edge cases to be worked out soon)

17:20:48 [ShaneM]

Ben asked when we will have a draft with the new rules? Mark says nearly done. Tomorrow?

17:21:56 [ShaneM]

Okay - Mark will have his changes done sometime tomorrow - Ben and Shane will review over the weekend. Others are invited to review as well.

17:22:11 [Zakim]

-markbirbeck

17:22:15 [Zakim]

-Manu

17:22:17 [Zakim]

-benadida

17:22:18 [Zakim]

-ShaneM

17:22:19 [Zakim]

-Ralph

17:22:26 [Zakim]

-Simone

17:22:28 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

17:22:29 [Zakim]

Attendees were [IPcaller], ShaneM, benadida, markbirbeck, Ralph, Simone, +1.540.641.aaaa, Manu

17:26:54 [Ralph]

[I'm not finding a FOAF URI for Libby Miller -- even DanBri foaf:knows [ a foaf:Person, foaf:mbox mailto:libby.miller@bristol.ac.uk]; without giving her a URI

17:27:18 [benadida]

benadida has left #rdfa

17:27:45 [Ralph]

[so perhaps our test should be _:Danbri foaf:knows <http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card#i>.

17:28:03 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

17:28:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

17:30:11 [Ralph]

rrsagent, bye

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-actions.rdf :

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to respond to comment on follow-your-nose [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] -- continues [1]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-10-46-1

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph followup with Dublin Core on what's going on with their namespace URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [3]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-13-04

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [4]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-13-49

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-13-59

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [6]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-14-44

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [7]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-14-54

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shane to add anchors to rdfa-syntax spec for element and attribute definitions [8]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-17-56

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu create an additional test case where @instanceof on head is used to set the global document type. [9]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-34-33

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to write up example and explanation of @src as subject for IMG [10]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-48-47

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu to add test cases to ensure URLs are resolved relative to base correctly against @about, @resource, and @href. [11]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T16-58-55

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph to check with Libby and make sure it is okay for us to use her address. [12]

17:30:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-irc#T17-16-56