IRC log of i18nits on 2007-12-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:52 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc

13:57:01 [fsasaki]

meeting: i18n ITS WG

13:57:03 [fsasaki]

chair: Yves

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scribe: Felix

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scribeNick: fsasaki

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agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007OctDec/0027.html

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14:00:08 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()9:00AM has now started

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+ +420.4.824.0.aaaa

14:00:39 [YvesS]

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-Jirka

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+Jirka

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14:01:09 [chriLi]

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14:01:11 [Zakim]

+Felix

14:01:37 [Zakim]

+Yves_Savourel

14:01:43 [Zakim]

+[SAP]

14:01:56 [Zakim]

+??P12

14:02:02 [YvesS]

zakim, who is there?

14:02:05 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, YvesS.

14:02:14 [YvesS]

zakim, who is here?

14:02:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Jirka, Felix, Yves_Savourel, Christian, Bartosz

14:02:18 [Zakim]

On IRC I see chriLi, bbogacki, YvesS, Jirka, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, r12a, trackbot-ng

14:02:53 [fsasaki]

topic: action items

14:02:55 [YvesS]

http://www.w3.org/International/its/track/actions/open

14:03:18 [fsasaki]

ACTION-2 XHTML issues

14:03:22 [r12a]

zakim, dial richard

14:03:22 [Zakim]

ok, r12a; the call is being made

14:03:25 [Zakim]

+Richard

14:03:41 [fsasaki]

Yves: need to decide whether to keep or remove the section

14:03:51 [fsasaki]

ACTION-3 skipped for now

14:04:03 [fsasaki]

ACTION-11 ITS and XForms

14:04:40 [fsasaki]

ACTION-24 ITS and XProc

14:04:47 [fsasaki]

Jirka: XProc new WD available

14:05:21 [fsasaki]

... there is an attribute with translatable content in the WD

14:05:59 [fsasaki]

.. it is better than previous WD, but not completely resolved

14:06:06 [fsasaki]

Yves: how to follow-up?

14:07:03 [fsasaki]

Felix: propose that Jirka sends a mail to the XProc people with his concerns, keeping us in CC

14:07:14 [fsasaki]

Jirka: OK, keep the AI open, I'll send a mail

14:07:43 [fsasaki]

ACTION-31

14:08:11 [fsasaki]

Yves: everything resolved here, AI can be closed

14:08:13 [fsasaki]

Close ACTION-31

14:08:13 [trackbot-ng]

ACTION-31 Provide correction for examples 39 and 40 closed

14:11:05 [fsasaki]

ACTION-33

14:11:47 [fsasaki]

pending

14:12:06 [fsasaki]

ACTION-45 , done offline, but not closed yet

14:12:34 [fsasaki]

ACTION-44 ongoing

14:12:56 [YvesS]

http://www.w3.org/TR/#last-call

14:13:04 [fsasaki]

Topic: reviews

14:13:31 [fsasaki]

nothing new

14:13:46 [fsasaki]

topic: Best Practices Working Draft

14:14:49 [fsasaki]

Yves: thanks to Richard a lot for editing, saw nothing except BP 24

14:14:54 [fsasaki]

.. how about others?

14:15:18 [fsasaki]

Richard: So I can accept also change to subtitles and blue background text?

14:15:47 [fsasaki]

Felix: happy with the changes and moving forward

14:15:53 [fsasaki]

s/happy/also/

14:16:00 [fsasaki]

Yves: now BP 24

14:16:41 [fsasaki]

Yves: sometimes we have XML files which contain XML source of some other files

14:18:20 [fsasaki]

Felix: our examples in the XMLSPEC source are also XML data which is not part of the XMLSPEC vocabulary

14:18:58 [fsasaki]

Yves: problem is for what is inside elements, mostly HTML data

14:19:10 [fsasaki]

.. content is not authoring content, but just storage as XML

14:19:39 [fsasaki]

Richard: you said "we can't add markup since it is storage". Were do you want to add markup?

14:20:11 [fsasaki]

Yves: I don't want to add markup, just process the "stored as data" XML

14:20:34 [fsasaki]

.. e.g. if we have XHTML data , the text should be XHTML markup

14:21:32 [fsasaki]

Richard: so how about our XHTML output of the BP document?

14:21:54 [YvesS]

http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html#AuthMarkupAsText

14:21:56 [fsasaki]

Yves: that is an output format, but in most cases we look into temporary stortage formats

14:23:24 [fsasaki]

Richard: were do we have such scenarios: translation tools?

14:23:31 [fsasaki]

Yves: yes, and spell checking, QA etc.

14:23:42 [fsasaki]

.. all kinds of localization related processing

14:24:06 [fsasaki]

.. often there is no way around this, but in some places it helps to use namespaces

14:25:10 [fsasaki]

Richard: if we need to translate into Arabic and need to put e.g. a span element

14:25:49 [fsasaki]

.. if you would have CDATA, you would put in the tags in escaped forms

14:25:59 [fsasaki]

Yves: problem is not adding markup to target output

14:26:05 [fsasaki]

.. problem is processing

14:26:18 [fsasaki]

.. you don't distinguish element from the text

14:27:28 [fsasaki]

Richard: is it localization properties?

14:27:42 [fsasaki]

Yves: no, all kinds of processing

14:28:03 [fsasaki]

Felix: like writing a translateRule element, that would not match for escaped elements

14:28:18 [fsasaki]

.. e.g. a code element

14:28:34 [fsasaki]

Richard: you would need to put the code element into a namespace anyway?

14:28:57 [fsasaki]

Felix: yes, but not escaping them via

14:29:25 [fsasaki]

.. e.g. <myns:code> ...

14:29:32 [fsasaki]

Christian: what is escaping here?

14:29:41 [fsasaki]

Richard: changing markup into content

14:30:32 [fsasaki]

Yves: big problem is putting XML into XML. The "hosted" XML is text, not XML anymore

14:30:40 [fsasaki]

.. that is the problem

14:30:59 [fsasaki]

.. there is no real solution, except flaging the content like JavaScript

14:31:11 [fsasaki]

.. by saying "this is not plain text, but 'escaped' HTML"

14:31:33 [fsasaki]

Richard: we have to find an example that makes that clear

14:32:59 [fsasaki]

Yves: I can try to make an explanation

14:33:16 [fsasaki]

Richard: you said it is the use, that makes this clearer

14:33:53 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to make an explanation of the BP 24 issue

14:33:53 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-46 - Make an explanation of the BP 24 issue [on Yves Savourel - due 2007-12-12].

14:34:25 [fsasaki]

Yves: how about other sections?

14:34:29 [fsasaki]

Richard: still working on some

14:34:53 [fsasaki]

Yves: we got feedback from Bartosz, are you happy with my replies and changes?

14:41:22 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to look into having numbers for BPs in the table of contents, Richard to see if he has some code for that

14:41:22 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-47 - Look into having numbers for BPs in the table of contents, Richard to see if he has some code for that [on Felix Sasaki - due 2007-12-12].

14:43:14 [YvesS]

http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html#xmlspec

14:44:25 [fsasaki]

Felix: we need to update the XMLSPEC section to use the official XMLSPEC dtd (not the modified XMLSPEC i18n DTD)

14:44:44 [fsasaki]

.. and we need to mention that we will update the XMLSPEC i18n DTD accordingly

14:45:00 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to update XMLSPEC dtd

14:45:00 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-48 - Update XMLSPEC dtd [on Felix Sasaki - due 2007-12-12].

14:45:25 [fsasaki]

Yves: we will need to go through sec. 4 later

14:45:47 [fsasaki]

Richard: will not go through this section in detail

14:46:28 [fsasaki]

topic: editorship for BP document

14:46:48 [fsasaki]

everybody agrees that Richard should be co-editor of BP document!

14:46:56 [fsasaki]

topic: AOB

14:51:10 [fsasaki]

Yves: next meeting would be 9 a.m. in Central Europe time, fine with everybody?

14:51:34 [fsasaki]

no disagreement

14:53:00 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to change teleconf reservation

14:53:00 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-49 - Change teleconf reservation [on Felix Sasaki - due 2007-12-12].

14:53:51 [fsasaki]

topic: ITS2Y

14:54:09 [fsasaki]

Christian and Felix were and will follow up

14:54:16 [Zakim]

-Christian

14:54:17 [Zakim]

-Bartosz

14:54:19 [Zakim]

-Felix

14:54:19 [Zakim]

-Jirka

14:54:22 [Zakim]

-Yves_Savourel

14:54:45 [fsasaki]

present: Richard, Christian, Yves, Jirka, Bartosz, Felix

14:54:49 [Zakim]

-Richard

14:54:49 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:54:49 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki

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I18N_TS()9:00AM has ended

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Attendees were +420.4.824.0.aaaa, Jirka, Felix, Yves_Savourel, [SAP], Christian, Bartosz, Richard

14:55:15 [Jirka]

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14:55:34 [r12a]

i just uploaded a new version of its-techniques.html which seems to have captured the changes made in external files

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-actions.rdf :

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to make an explanation of the BP 24 issue [1]

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc#T14-33-53

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to look into having numbers for BPs in the table of contents, Richard to see if he has some code for that [2]

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc#T14-41-22

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to update XMLSPEC dtd [3]

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc#T14-45-00

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to change teleconf reservation [4]

14:59:22 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc#T14-53-00

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