IRC log of rif on 2007-12-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:42:39 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:42:39 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/04-rif-irc
15:43:31 [csma]: topic: 4 December RIF telecon, agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Dec/0001.html
15:44:37 [csma]: zakim, this will be rif
15:44:37 [Zakim]: "rif" matches SW_RIF()11:00AM, and Team_(rifc)15:29Z, csma
15:45:08 [csma]: Meeting: RIF telecon 4 December 07
15:45:26 [csma]: Chair: Chris Welty
15:45:45 [csma]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Dec/0001.html
15:46:00 [csma]: Scribe: Adrian Giurca
15:46:13 [csma]: scribenick: agiurca
15:46:30 [csma]: topic #rif 4 December RIF telecon, agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Dec/0001.html
15:46:50 [csma]: csma has changed the topic to: 4 December RIF telecon, agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Dec/0001.html
15:46:57 [csma]: zakim, list agenda
15:46:57 [Zakim]: I see nothing on the agenda
15:47:21 [csma]: agenda+ Admin
15:47:37 [csma]: agenda+ liaisons
15:47:42 [csma]: agenda+ F2F
15:47:56 [csma]: agenda+ issue 42
15:48:25 [csma]: agenda+ issue 40 (builtins)
15:48:53 [csma]: agenda+ issue 44 (Named arguments Uniterm)
15:49:05 [csma]: agenda+ issue 45 (lists)
15:49:22 [csma]: agenda+ AOB (pick scribe for next telecon!)
15:57:53 [Zakim]: SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:58:05 [Zakim]: +Mike_Dean
15:59:44 [Harold]: Harold has joined #rif
15:59:54 [josb]: josb has joined #rif
16:00:05 [mdean]: mdean has joined #rif
16:00:35 [DaveReynolds]: DaveReynolds has joined #rif
16:00:51 [IgorMozetic]: IgorMozetic has joined #rif
16:00:56 [Zakim]: +[NRCC]
16:00:57 [patranja]: patranja has joined #rif
16:01:00 [Zakim]: + +39.047.1.aaaa
16:01:10 [Zakim]: +??P7
16:01:12 [Harold]: zakim, [NRCC] is me
16:01:12 [Zakim]: +Harold; got it
16:01:14 [Zakim]: + +1.646.842.aabb
16:01:32 [StellaMitchell]: StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:01:39 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
16:01:46 [ChrisW]: zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:01:46 [Zakim]: +ChrisW; got it
16:01:52 [PaulVincent]: PaulVincent has joined #rif
16:01:54 [agiurca]: agiurca has joined #rif
16:02:43 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:45 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Harold, josb, ??P7, +1.646.842.aabb (muted), ChrisW
16:02:48 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
16:02:56 [csma]: zakim, ??P7 is me
16:02:57 [Zakim]: +[TU-Cottbus]
16:02:58 [ChrisW]: zakim, aabb is LeoraMorgenstern
16:03:00 [StellaMitchell]: zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
16:03:00 [Zakim]: +csma; got it
16:03:02 [Zakim]: +LeoraMorgenstern; got it
16:03:03 [Zakim]: +??P24
16:03:05 [Zakim]: +Dave_Reynolds (was ??P24)
16:03:06 [Zakim]: +StellaMitchell; got it
16:03:14 [agiurca]: zakim, TU-Cottbus is me
16:03:14 [Zakim]: +agiurca; got it
16:03:23 [agiurca]: zakim, mute me
16:03:23 [Zakim]: agiurca should now be muted
16:03:27 [csma]: zakim, mute me
16:03:27 [Zakim]: csma should now be muted
16:03:27 [ChrisW]: Scribe: agiurca
16:03:41 [agiurca]: yes
16:03:48 [agiurca]: zakim, unmute me
16:03:48 [Zakim]: agiurca should no longer be muted
16:04:01 [Zakim]: +??P13
16:04:02 [agiurca]: zakim, mute me
16:04:02 [Zakim]: agiurca should now be muted
16:04:10 [IgorMozetic]: zakim, ??P13 is me
16:04:11 [Zakim]: +IgorMozetic; got it
16:04:18 [IgorMozetic]: zakim, mute me
16:04:18 [Zakim]: IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:04:20 [Zakim]: +[LMU]
16:04:29 [csma]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Dec/0001.html
16:04:47 [ChrisW]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Nov/att-0084/2007-11-27-rif-minutes-edited.htm
16:05:07 [hak]: hak has joined #rif
16:05:22 [josb]: q+
16:05:26 [Zakim]: +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:05:27 [csma]: actually http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Dec/att-0005/2007-11-27-rif-minutes-revised.htm
16:05:31 [agiurca]: ChrisW: Minutes of last telecon, approved
16:05:32 [ChrisW]: ack josb
16:05:41 [csma]: zakim, unmute me
16:05:41 [Zakim]: csma should no longer be muted
16:05:54 [AxelPolleres]: AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:06:28 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:28 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Harold, josb, csma, LeoraMorgenstern (muted), ChrisW, StellaMitchell, agiurca (muted), Dave_Reynolds, IgorMozetic (muted), PaulaP (muted),
16:06:31 [Zakim]: ... Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:06:38 [Zakim]: +??P30
16:06:54 [Zakim]: +??P32
16:07:06 [hak]: Zakim, ??P32 is me
16:07:06 [Zakim]: +hak; got it
16:07:27 [Zakim]: -hak
16:07:43 [agiurca]: AxelPoleres: I did not answer yet to the public question but I will do it immediate
16:08:27 [josb]: Axel was not there last time
16:08:37 [Zakim]: +Sandro
16:10:22 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:10:52 [Harold]: If it's only one week till MichaelK is back, then we might wait.
16:11:24 [agiurca]: ChrisW: Jos, can you reply to the Peter email?
16:11:40 [Harold]: q+
16:12:03 [agiurca]: JosB: I can answer to some questions but many of them are related to design questions (i.e. Michael and Harold)
16:12:51 [ChrisW]: ack h
16:13:06 [csma]: zakim, mute me
16:13:06 [Zakim]: csma should now be muted
16:13:23 [agiurca]: ChrisW: Move to next agenda: Liaison
16:13:24 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:13:24 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from csma]
16:13:30 [ChrisW]: zakim, close item 1
16:13:30 [Zakim]: agendum 1, Admin, closed
16:13:31 [Zakim]: I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:13:32 [Zakim]: 2. liaisons [from csma]
16:13:39 [josb]: q+
16:13:41 [csma]: zakim, unmute me
16:13:41 [Zakim]: csma should no longer be muted
16:13:43 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 3
16:13:43 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "F2F" taken up [from csma]
16:13:45 [PaulVincent]: Liaison: might be of interest: OMG are holding a vocabulary management meeting next week
16:14:49 [agiurca]: csma: Next F2F in Paris
16:15:08 [ChrisW]: Feb 21-22 next F2F
16:17:45 [agiurca]: ChrisW: We have to vote for Paris/Galway location
16:19:36 [agiurca]: JosB: Which thinks will be sponsored by ILOG
16:19:59 [agiurca]: csma: I have to complete with other info (such as dinner etc)
16:20:20 [agiurca]: sandro: Do we have special rates for hotels?
16:20:39 [agiurca]: csma: I have to check the rates too
16:21:38 [Zakim]: +Gary_Hallmark
16:22:20 [GaryHallmark]: GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:22:23 [josb]: q?
16:22:35 [ChrisW]: ack jos
16:23:06 [AxelPolleres]: BTW: reply mail to public-rif-comments is sent.
16:23:29 [csma]: action: axel to reply to public-rif-comment
16:23:30 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-388 - Reply to public-rif-comment [on Axel Polleres - due 2007-12-11].
16:24:35 [ChrisW]: action Jos de Bruijn to make a pass on the wiki page for responses to public comments
16:24:44 [ChrisW]: action: Jos de Bruijn to make a pass on the wiki page for responses to public comments
16:24:44 [rifbot]: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Jos
16:24:44 [rifbot]: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jderoo, jdebruij)
16:24:55 [ChrisW]: action: Bruijn to make a pass on the wiki page for responses to public comments
16:24:55 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - Bruijn
16:25:16 [MichaelKifer]: MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:25:34 [ChrisW]: action: jos_de_bruijn to make a pass on the wiki page for responses to public comments
16:25:34 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - jos_de_bruijn
16:25:42 [ChrisW]: rifbot, you are an idiot
16:26:08 [ChrisW]: action: jdebruijn to make a pass on the wiki page for responses to public comments
16:26:08 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - jdebruijn
16:26:08 [Zakim]: + +1.631.833.aacc
16:26:14 [ChrisW]: action: jdebruij to make a pass on the wiki page for responses to public comments
16:26:14 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-389 - Make a pass on the wiki page for responses to public comments [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2007-12-11].
16:26:25 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, aacc is me
16:26:26 [Zakim]: +MichaelKifer; got it
16:26:34 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:26:34 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:26:57 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 4
16:26:57 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "issue 42" taken up [from csma]
16:27:35 [agiurca]: ChrisW: Next item: Issue 42 (rif:text)
16:27:43 [csma]: action: christian to finish F2F9 proposal
16:27:43 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-390 - Finish F2F9 proposal [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2007-12-11].
16:28:00 [csma]: action: to axel to finish F2F9 proposal
16:28:00 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - to
16:28:28 [csma]: action: AxelPolleres to finish F2F9 proposal
16:28:28 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - AxelPolleres
16:28:51 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
16:28:51 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:29:00 [ChrisW]: q?
16:29:50 [csma]: action: apol to finish F2F9 proposal
16:29:50 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - apol
16:30:09 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:30:09 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:30:25 [ChrisW]: action: axel to finish f2f9 proposal
16:30:25 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-391 - Finish f2f9 proposal [on Axel Polleres - due 2007-12-11].
16:30:50 [ChrisW]: action: sandro to set up wbs for f2f9 on friday
16:30:50 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-392 - Set up wbs for f2f9 on friday [on Sandro Hawke - due 2007-12-11].
16:34:50 [josb]: issue 42: Conceptually a text constant is a pair of a unicode string and a language tag.
16:34:52 [josb]: Currently we handle this by means of a rif:text datatype. By virtue of the
16:34:54 [josb]: current definition of a datatype that means it needs a simple lexical space
16:34:55 [josb]: which is currently described as "string@lang".
16:34:57 [josb]: However, in the XML representation we will use the xml:lang attribute to carry
16:34:59 [josb]: the language code and the string will be conveyed in the element content. So the
16:35:00 [josb]: "string@lang" lexical form is not explicitly part of the XML representation and
16:35:02 [josb]: a RIF processor, working from XML, would not be expected to explicitly
16:35:04 [josb]: materialize the "string@lang" lexical form at any stage.
16:35:05 [josb]: It is unclear whether this is a problem, or a possible confusion that needs to
16:35:06 [Zakim]: -Mike_Dean
16:35:07 [josb]: be explained further or a non-issue.
16:35:08 [josb]: We are raising it as an issue to record that we have thought about it and may
16:35:10 [josb]: need to examine it further in the future but it is not something we currently
16:35:11 [josb]: regard as a barrier to at least the next working draft.
16:36:04 [Zakim]: +Mike_Dean
16:36:22 [csma]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:36:22 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, josb, csma, LeoraMorgenstern (muted), ChrisW, StellaMitchell, agiurca (muted), Dave_Reynolds, IgorMozetic (muted), PaulaP (muted), Hassan_Ait-Kaci,
16:36:26 [Zakim]: ... AxelPolleres, Sandro, PaulVincent, Gary_Hallmark, MichaelKifer (muted), Mike_Dean
16:36:54 [csma]: Adrian, are scribing off-line?
16:37:27 [agiurca]: No comments of Sandro regarding rif:text issue
16:38:37 [sandro]: which is to say -- I'm not really happy with this solution -- just using the mapping table -- but I don't see any serious harm from it, so I wont object.
16:38:41 [ChrisW]: PROPOSED: Resolve Issue 42 such that the relationship between the xml syntax treatment of constants and the presentation treatment of constants is specified in the syntax mapping table
16:39:50 [agiurca]: sandro: I think the issue should be closed as Chris proposed
16:39:59 [sandro]: -0: I wont object
16:40:16 [sandro]: (abstain)
16:40:22 [DaveReynolds]: (abstain)
16:40:28 [josb]: (abstain)
16:40:58 [agiurca]: No other objections
16:41:03 [ChrisW]: RESOLVED: Resolve Issue 42 such that the relationship between the xml syntax treatment of constants and the presentation treatment of constants is specified in the syntax mapping table
16:41:15 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:41:15 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "liaisons" taken up [from csma]
16:41:22 [ChrisW]: zakim, close item 2
16:41:22 [Zakim]: agendum 2, liaisons, closed
16:41:24 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:41:25 [Zakim]: 3. F2F [from csma]
16:41:39 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 5
16:41:39 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "issue 40 (builtins)" taken up [from csma]
16:42:03 [agiurca]: ChrisW: What is the issue around builtins
16:42:22 [agiurca]: csma: A discussion about the mechanism to identify builtins
16:43:00 [josb]: q+
16:43:14 [PaulaP]: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/List_of_BLD_built-ins
16:43:31 [PaulaP]: lists also a couple of issues to be discussed
16:44:17 [agiurca]: seems that builtins will be identified by IRI
16:44:44 [AxelPolleres]: I was offline the last few days, but I also feel unease with it!
16:44:50 [agiurca]: josb: I would object on that. We need syntactic distinction between builtins and other predicates
16:44:55 [mdean]: mdean has joined #rif
16:45:01 [AxelPolleres]: q+
16:45:20 [csma]: ack josb
16:47:08 [csma]: ack axel
16:47:25 [agiurca]: AxelPolleres: We need distinguish them syntactically
16:47:29 [josb]: me too
16:47:31 [josb]: yes
16:47:43 [josb]: q+
16:47:58 [sandro]: +1 Axel, a builtin should be part of a dialect, syntactically.
16:48:29 [AxelPolleres]: ... and a dialect should also define under which binding patterns they are usable.
16:49:16 [PaulaP]: +1 for built-ins as part of a dialect
16:49:33 [ChrisW]: q?
16:49:42 [AxelPolleres]: sorry, as I said, I was mainly offline since last week and only reutnred yesterday night.
16:49:43 [agiurca]: csma: I would expect people to react to the emails concerning a specific subject
16:49:44 [ChrisW]: ack j
16:50:20 [csma]: q+
16:50:33 [agiurca]: josb: They say (csma) that chould be a fixed list of builtins but I'm in favor of an open list
16:50:37 [IgorMozetic]: +1 for Josb: having an open ended list of buildins
16:50:49 [AxelPolleres]: the list IS extensible by dialect extensibility... why would we want two extensibility mechanisms?!?
16:50:55 [csma]: May I suggest that we use two different names: builtin for what is fixed and belongs to a dialect
16:51:03 [AxelPolleres]: q+
16:51:10 [csma]: and eg external call for what is open and free
16:51:14 [csma]: ack csma
16:51:38 [agiurca]: csma: I'm in favor of an open list of builtins
16:52:11 [agiurca]: csma: The dialect should also have a fixed list of builtins part of it
16:52:22 [PaulaP]: +1 for csma's point
16:52:31 [ChrisW]: ack c
16:52:32 [sandro]: +1 csma: fixed list of bultins, open list of external calls
16:52:34 [ChrisW]: ack ax
16:53:14 [MichaelKifer]: q+
16:54:01 [sandro]: +1 Axel: it's important for a receiver to know whether a given function is expected to be built-in or not.
16:56:15 [agiurca]: csma: A specific dialect has a specific list of builtins which are external calls necessary to be implemented
16:56:24 [josb]: q+
16:56:41 [agiurca]: csma: but out of that there might be other external calls
16:56:51 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
16:56:51 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:57:22 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:57:22 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:57:23 [ChrisW]: ack m
16:57:25 [ChrisW]: ack j
16:57:26 [MichaelKifer]: q-
16:57:30 [agiurca]: MichaelKifer: I propose an action to JosB or Axel to clarify addressing of builtins
16:57:32 [Harold]: Where the IRI of a 'builtin' points (to a RIF dialect or to some external library), would show what kind of 'builtin' it is.
16:58:55 [AxelPolleres]: just to make clear: I do NOT want 2 different forms of built-ins/external function calls. I was rather suggesting that only the ones defined in the dialect should be allowed. If you need more, extend the dialect.
17:00:28 [csma]: q?
17:00:33 [csma]: q+
17:00:39 [Harold]: With IRIs as the distinguishing element, we would not need other syntactic means.
17:00:42 [josb]: q+
17:00:52 [josb]: q-
17:01:11 [csma]: ack csma
17:01:18 [csma]: q+
17:01:55 [csma]: ack csma
17:02:36 [agiurca]: Recall the MichaelKifer proposal: an action to clarify addressing of builtins
17:03:10 [AxelPolleres]: As long as this is not subject to interchange, all is fine :-)
17:03:52 [sandro]: The question is: do app-specific parts of a system need to be part of a new dialect?
17:04:03 [csma]: If you do not accept that some elements required for an interchange will be agreed on out of band, you will have very little actual interchanges
17:04:21 [sandro]: +1 Axel: app-specific parts should be part of a dialect definition, if you want to interchange them.
17:04:53 [sandro]: The question, csma, is whether that agreement is equal to agreeing to some dialect.
17:05:25 [agiurca]: ChrisW: We should allow people to extends their list of builtins
17:05:44 [josb]: q+
17:05:44 [sandro]: +1 Chris: We all agree that folks should be able to extend the list of builtins, we just disagree about whether to call that new agreement is called a 'dialect'.
17:05:56 [agiurca]: csma: We need that two parties can extend the fixed list of builtins
17:06:53 [sandro]: -1 csma: The label 'dialect' matters because it forbids out of band agreement. [ I don't see that at all. ]
17:07:27 [sandro]: Chris: (1) agrrement to have call some-uri
17:07:33 [csma]: To Sandro: that's what I have been saying all the time. That's why I think that I disagree with Axel
17:07:46 [sandro]: Chris: (2) the list of external calls specified by a dialect are "the builtins"
17:07:49 [josb]: q-
17:08:18 [sandro]: Chris: (3) you should be allowed to extend that list among consenting parties -- BUT we're not agreed at the moment about whether to call that extension a new dialect.
17:08:43 [AxelPolleres]: option a) we allow metadata to say "ruleset R is dialect D + builtin (X) which semantics is defined somewhere else"
17:09:09 [AxelPolleres]: b) we only allow metadata to say "ruleset R is in dialect D' "
17:09:43 [Harold]: Since different RIF dialects D1, ..., Dn should be allowed to share a given set of builtins B, D1, ..., Dn should point to B a la D1->B, ..., Dn->B, rather than 'adding' B into D1, ..., Dn as new dialects a la D1+B, ..., Dn+B.
17:10:51 [AxelPolleres]: but then we agree on a dialect? right? and whether we decide to writye down the dialect and publish it is our own business.
17:13:23 [sandro]: Chris: (4) We're also not agreed about whether we need a formal mechanism about extending the list of builtins.
17:13:30 [agiurca]: ChrisW: We have to close this issue
17:13:46 [sandro]: s/have to/can/
17:13:50 [josb]: issue 40: At the moment the WG has agreed to support "builtins", in particular those
17:13:51 [josb]: defined for supported XS datatypes, however the syntactic and semantic treatment
17:13:53 [josb]: of builtins has not been made clear.
17:13:54 [josb]: One issue is how they will relate to functions in the syntax (e.g. are builtins
17:13:56 [josb]: just logic functions?).
17:13:57 [josb]: Another issue is whether builtins will be sensitive to "order" as they are in
17:13:59 [josb]: query languages and production rules; in these cases, the order is understood to
17:14:00 [josb]: be required to "bind" variables before the builtin is called.
17:14:21 [agiurca]: csma: this discussion is just a small part of the Issue 40
17:14:57 [josb]: right
17:15:35 [agiurca]: sandro please write your proposal on iRC
17:15:45 [sandro]: PROPOSED: The XML syntax for BLD will distinguish between external calls (including builtins) and logic functions
17:15:57 [agiurca]: thanks. I did not catch it
17:16:31 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
17:16:31 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
17:16:57 [agiurca]: MichaelKifer: We need a concrete proposal from Axel.
17:17:05 [IgorMozetic]: IgorMozetic has joined #rif
17:17:40 [sandro]: csma: there was one proposal that the use of URIs be the distinguishing factor, but now we see that wont do.
17:18:27 [josb]: q+
17:19:24 [csma]: <op>
17:19:25 [csma]: <Const type="rif:iri">
17:19:25 [csma]: http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/#dateTime
17:19:25 [csma]: </Const>
17:19:25 [csma]: </op>
17:21:03 [AxelPolleres]: I take an action to review Michael's two proposals again and suggest something else if needed. My alrernative would be something like <op> <ExtFunc type="rif:iri">http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/#dateTime</Const> </op>
17:21:16 [AxelPolleres]: oops.
17:21:35 [AxelPolleres]: <op> <ExtFunc type="rif:iri">http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/#dateTime</ExtFunc></op>
17:21:54 [agiurca]: MichaelKifer: We have to see more proposals
17:22:52 [josb]: q-
17:23:17 [PaulaP]: I think this is about binding patterns
17:23:18 [csma]: action: apollere2 to review the discussion about external calls, including Michael's 2 proposals
17:23:18 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-393 - Review the discussion about external calls, including Michael\'s 2 proposals [on Axel Polleres - due 2007-12-11].
17:26:15 [Harold]: Order in conjunctions: And(?x=3 add(?r ?x ?x)) vs. And(add(?r ?x ?x) ?x=3).
17:28:33 [agiurca]: MichaelKifer: Don't mention nothing about errors. They should be left to implementations
17:31:54 [PaulaP]: there are also no binding patterns specified in SWRL
17:33:17 [AxelPolleres]: paulap, so I can write: ?X ex:gt ?Y <- ?X < ?Y, the question is how this shall be implemented.
17:33:29 [Harold]: Let's use "mode" rather than "binding pattern".
17:34:06 [csma]: zakim, pick a victim
17:34:06 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Mike_Dean
17:34:15 [Harold]: (otherwise confusion risk between "binding" and "binding pattern").
17:34:52 [Harold]: Re Mediawiki: We used advanced features for formulas etc.
17:35:10 [csma]: Mike, will you be able to scribe next Tuesday?
17:35:38 [PaulaP]: (still, it is a good idea not to discuss 'modes'...we just need to specify the meaning of a built-in, not how it should be implemented)
17:35:43 [csma]: zakim, who is on the phone?
17:35:43 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, josb, csma, LeoraMorgenstern (muted), ChrisW, StellaMitchell, agiurca (muted), Dave_Reynolds, IgorMozetic (muted), PaulaP (muted), Hassan_Ait-Kaci,
17:35:46 [Zakim]: ... AxelPolleres, Sandro, PaulVincent, Gary_Hallmark, MichaelKifer, Mike_Dean
17:36:05 [AxelPolleres]: I need to go ,sorry
17:36:31 [Harold]: Since we have many other things to change, there would an increased need for version maintenance.
17:36:32 [PaulVincent]: bye
17:36:35 [Zakim]: -IgorMozetic
17:36:37 [Zakim]: -Dave_Reynolds
17:36:38 [Zakim]: -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
17:36:38 [agiurca]: zakim, unmute me
17:36:39 [Zakim]: -PaulVincent
17:36:40 [Zakim]: -AxelPolleres
17:36:41 [PaulaP]: bye
17:36:42 [Zakim]: agiurca should no longer be muted
17:36:45 [Zakim]: -josb
17:36:46 [Zakim]: -StellaMitchell
17:36:47 [Zakim]: -PaulaP
17:36:58 [csma]: rrsagent, make record public
17:37:06 [csma]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:37:06 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/04-rif-minutes.html csma
17:37:22 [agiurca]: zakim, mute me
17:37:22 [Zakim]: agiurca should now be muted
17:38:04 [csma]: adrian, see the link above? It gets you to the draft of the minutes
17:38:23 [csma]: Youjust have to edit it and publish the thus obtained minutes
17:38:42 [csma]: Adrian?
17:39:10 [agiurca]: no
17:39:18 [agiurca]: zakim, unmute me
17:39:18 [Zakim]: agiurca should no longer be muted
17:39:49 [ChrisW]: zakim, list attendees
17:39:49 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, +39.047.1.aaaa, Harold, josb, +1.646.842.aabb, ChrisW, csma, LeoraMorgenstern, Dave_Reynolds, StellaMitchell, agiurca,
17:39:53 [Zakim]: ... IgorMozetic, PaulaP, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, AxelPolleres, hak, Sandro, PaulVincent, Gary_Hallmark, +1.631.833.aacc, MichaelKifer
17:40:10 [csma]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:40:10 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/04-rif-minutes.html csma
17:40:45 [Zakim]: -agiurca
17:45:02 [Zakim]: -Harold
17:45:03 [Zakim]: -MichaelKifer
17:46:15 [Zakim]: -Sandro
17:46:16 [Zakim]: -ChrisW
17:46:18 [Zakim]: -csma
17:46:20 [Zakim]: -Mike_Dean
17:46:24 [Zakim]: -Gary_Hallmark
17:46:35 [Zakim]: -LeoraMorgenstern
17:46:37 [Zakim]: SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:46:38 [Zakim]: Attendees were Mike_Dean, +39.047.1.aaaa, Harold, josb, +1.646.842.aabb, ChrisW, csma, LeoraMorgenstern, Dave_Reynolds, StellaMitchell, agiurca, IgorMozetic, PaulaP,
17:46:41 [Zakim]: ... Hassan_Ait-Kaci, AxelPolleres, hak, Sandro, PaulVincent, Gary_Hallmark, +1.631.833.aacc, MichaelKifer