14:02:02 RRSAgent has joined #xhtml 14:02:02 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-irc 14:02:11 zakim, room for 10? 14:02:13 ok, Steven; conference Team_(xhtml)14:02Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1502Z 14:02:17 NOTE CODE 14:02:21 Team_(xhtml)14:02Z has now started 14:02:22 CONF2 14:02:29 +ShaneM 14:02:30 zakim, dial steven-617 14:02:30 ok, Steven; the call is being made 14:02:31 +Steven 14:03:00 first time, "call has not yet started" -- second time "invalid conference code" 14:03:03 rrsagent, make log public 14:03:11 +Roland 14:03:15 Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference 14:03:18 use the code 26632 14:03:39 yamx has joined #xhtml 14:03:46 thanks shane -- too many aural streams at once... 14:03:46 Chair: Roland 14:03:51 Scribe: Steven 14:04:17 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0043 14:04:25 +Gregory_Rosmaita 14:04:47 Steven has changed the topic to: Code 26632; Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0043 14:05:18 --> Previous http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes 14:05:30 rrsagent, make minutes 14:05:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven 14:05:56 Regrets: MarkB 14:06:15 zakim, who is here? 14:06:15 On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, +013868aaaa, Gregory_Rosmaita 14:06:16 On IRC I see yamx, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Roland, myakura, ShaneM, Lachy, Steven, krijnh 14:06:32 The call returned "conference is restricted at this time", what is it? 14:06:33 zakim, +0 is Roland 14:06:34 +Roland; got it 14:07:19 Rich has joined #xhtml 14:08:44 Topic: Calls over the holiday period 14:09:04 Roland: I'm not here the 26th 14:09:21 Steven: I'm away for December 14:09:22 I am being told the conference is restricted 14:09:30 Rich, note new code 14:09:38 26632 14:09:48 Roland: Call OK for next week 14:09:49 GJR: no problem with call on december 19 14:09:53 Roiland: 19th OK? 14:10:00 ... Ok we assume the 19th is OK 14:10:05 ... no call on the 26th 14:10:39 boxing day the only skipped date? 14:10:43 ... we resume on the 2nd? 14:10:56 +[IBM] 14:11:01 ... so we miss just one week, the 26th of December 14:11:38 zakim, +[ is Rich 14:11:38 sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '+[' 14:11:46 zakim, [ is Rich 14:11:46 +Rich; got it 14:12:04 Roland: I will do agendas for this month 14:12:16 Steven: I will be around in case of need (for instance transition calls) 14:12:29 markbirbeck has joined #xhtml 14:12:35 Topic: Announcements 14:12:52 Roland: We produced a new draft of CURIEs last week 14:12:55 alessio has joined #xhtml 14:13:22 ... and we have a request outstanding for FPWD of Access 14:13:31 hi... sorry I'm late, is it possible to join actually? 14:13:41 yes, see topic Alessio 14:13:45 different code 14:13:54 ahhhhh tanks ;) 14:13:56 Roland: And ITS review? 14:14:00 Shane: We are happy with it 14:14:05 thanks 14:14:11 ACTION: Steven to send ITS review (=thanksyou, it's fine) 14:14:19 Topic: Testing of XHTML Basic 1.1 14:14:29 Hello all...first I apologise for forgetting that we are an hour earlier this week, but second, I won't be able to make it, since a meeting has come up for 2.30pm, so I'm leaving the office now. All the best. 14:14:33 +??P13 14:14:47 zakim, ??P13 is Alessio 14:14:47 +Alessio; got it 14:14:58 +[IPcaller] 14:15:21 P13 is yamx, I think. 14:15:24 Zakim, Alessio is Yam 14:15:24 +Yam; got it 14:15:25 yes 14:15:32 zakim, [IP is Alessio 14:15:32 +Alessio; got it 14:16:27 Roland: Yam, are you able to report on this now? 14:16:54 Yam: At least my colleague is testing inputmode, so it is on the way 14:17:01 Roland: When might it be done? 14:17:06 Yam: Next week I think 14:17:09 Tina has joined #xhtml 14:17:19 Steven: That's good news 14:17:40 Yam: I think we are on schedule with the implementation 14:18:00 ... the team spotted two errors, and are fixing that 14:18:26 ... all three test cases are tested in out technical team 14:18:33 s/out/our/ 14:18:53 s/thanksyou/thankyou/ 14:19:04 Topic: Title issue (RDFa vs Role) 14:19:21 GJR: RDFa versus Role to be discussed at today's telecon 14:19:25 Roland: There was going to be a followup meeting on this 14:20:32 Steven: Rich, what is your take on the current opinions in the PF about the use of role for title? 14:20:43 Rich: Well, clearly title isn't a unique thing 14:20:54 ... since it may apply to many sections 14:21:26 ... it hasn't been proven to me why you need a title element for sections and the whole document 14:21:34 ... maybe because of iframe 14:23:05 Steven: So we have a way to do that, the property element equal to dc:title 14:23:18 s/element/attribute/ 14:23:42 ...

My life

14:24:09 Rick: We also have labelledby 14:24:15 s/Rick/Rich/ 14:24:20 Note that the RDFa spec does not say that something with a property of dc:title is the same as / overrides the title element. 14:24:35 GJR: labelledby for today, RDFa for next round 14:25:46 Steven: I agree that role is the wrong way to do it 14:25:55 ... but the use case is still covered 14:26:12 Roland: SO the short term goal is role, and the long term goal is RDFa 14:26:16 s/SO/So/ 14:26:38 GJR: short term goal is "labelledby" (ARIA syntax); long term goal is to use RDFa and explore means of communicating RDFa to Assistive Technologies 14:27:26 Steven: You can also say

Future tasks

14:27:56 ... which says what the title is for some subsection 14:28:05 original example:

Record #35793: Title of Document or Sub-Document or portion of document

14:28:17 thread starts here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2007OctDec/0191.html 14:28:26 ROland: If we are happy, let's move on 14:28:31 s/RO/Ro/ 14:28:33 short term solution:
14:28:33
(which will become the first decision) 14:45:08 right 14:45:25 Rich: And was there for that 14:46:53 Steve: handler specs, purpose element -- strictly speaking with so many types of handlers, good to have solution that addresses that as well; idea of purpose description is very good one -- if can find way to do it; Mark suggested role, i can envision using RDFa to pass description of handler (metadata in a way) 14:47:16 RS: place to put text, associate text with handler via RDFa -- mechanism to put actual text in handler? 14:47:46 Rich: liked Roland's proposal -- similar to solution for XForms 14:48:19 Roland: why not provide information - this is a label, this is what it does, hint can be obtained on user request (tell me more about this) 14:48:29 Steve: label in relation to handler? 14:48:38 Rich: don't see how label fits for handler 14:48:56 Roland: if here is a trigger and this is the handler for it, could get label from handler 14:49:02 Steve: have to think about that 14:49:36 Roland: have as many as want in UI - don't have to write twice; and can get supporting materials 14:49:42 Rich: XML Events -- how to do? 14:49:50 Roland: can still have element as child of handler 14:50:05 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007OctDec/0027.html 14:50:29 14:50:30 14:50:30 performing this action will delight you.. 14:50:30 14:50:33 14:51:04 Shane: Any of this is fine 14:51:16 ... only as long as we don't overengineer it 14:51:34 Roland: No one says we have to do all three 14:51:38 ... but in XForms we do 14:51:46 ... a label for the UI layer 14:51:50 q+ 14:52:07 Shane: WHat is the UA requirement for a label 14:52:20 Roland: That it is presented to the user 14:52:24 s/WH/Wh/ 14:52:34 s/label/label?/ 14:52:45 GJR: can use "prolog" in ARIA concept to provide richer, fuller human-understandable information about specifics of choice (if choice available) 14:52:55 Shane: If I have a span 14:53:04 ... and associate an access key with it 14:53:21 ... and a handler that is invoked by that key 14:53:36 ... if the handler has a label, how does that get manifested? 14:53:45 Roland: I don't think it does 14:53:51 Shane: OK, good 14:54:32 Rich: So do we need all 3 in XML Events2? 14:54:45 Roland: Well, I was suggesting su=ynergy with stuff we have already 14:54:50 ... you don't HAVE to use them 14:55:01 s/su=/s/ 14:55:08 Rich: I see, fine 14:55:21 ... I see a way of mapping it to the accessibility API 14:55:53 Gregory: See my comment abouyt 'prologg' in aria 14:55:58 s/yt/t/ 14:56:03 s/gg/g/ 14:56:08 ... above 14:56:33 So I think what I need to do is steal the label, hint, and help elements from XForms and put them into XML Events 2? 14:56:33 Rich: If we had a declarative model, like XForms data model, we could do this all a lot easier 14:57:02 Roland: So I'm saying XForms, and therefore XHTML2 has this already, so why not reuse it rather than reinventing stuff 14:57:22 Shand: DO you mean add it to handlers? 14:57:26 Roland: Yes 14:57:32 s/DO?Do/ 14:57:33 +1 add to handlers and reuse in XForms 14:57:36 s/DO/Do/ 14:57:38 +1 14:58:13 s/Shand/Shane/ 14:58:18 ack oe 14:58:58 Rich: So we'll be using XML Evbents2 in XHTML2? 14:58:58 +q 14:59:14 Steven: That is the plan, but there is an overlap with XForms,which still uses XML Events 1 14:59:22 ... and we will use XForms 1.1 15:00:10 Rich: XHTML2 is not fully supported in the browser, and there is HTML, we are looking at a dual timeline in the WAI area 15:00:21 Sack Sh 15:00:26 ack sh 15:00:34 Topic: CURIEs 15:00:46 Shane: I would like to go to last call in 2 weeks on CURIEs 15:00:52 ... just to push the fight 15:01:24 ... we can deal with the comments 15:01:35 Steven: Length? 15:01:43 Roland: TIll late January 15:01:48 ... for the ftf 15:01:53 Shane: 6 or 7 weeks 15:02:10 Steven: Any objections 15:02:22 Shane: I will prepare a draft for next week's call 15:02:36 Steven: Will put on the agenda 15:02:50 -ShaneM 15:02:51 -Rich 15:02:52 -Steven 15:02:54 -Roland 15:02:55 -Gregory_Rosmaita 15:02:55 -Alessio 15:02:56 Team_(xhtml)14:02Z has ended 15:02:57 Attendees were ShaneM, Steven, Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, [IBM], Rich, [IPcaller], Yam, Alessio 15:03:05 ACTION: Roland put last call of CURIES on next week's agenda 15:03:17 ACTION: SHane prepare a new draft of CURIES for next week 15:03:24 s/SH/Sh/G 15:03:30 rrsagent, make minutes 15:03:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven 15:04:02 Present+Tina(remote) 15:04:06 rrsagent, make minutes 15:04:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven 15:08:59 CSB has joined #xhtml 15:09:29 Rich has left #xhtml 15:14:08 hi, steve? 15:16:44 Me? 15:16:58 Hi Christina 15:17:07 now I realise who you are :-) 15:17:19 :) 15:17:45 didn't see any traffic and wanted to check that my setup was correct. 15:18:16 Oops. We decided to move the call an hour earlier, for the sake of our Japanese colleagues 15:18:28 Did you not see the traffic around that? 15:18:44 one hour earlier than the 1400utc in the agenda? 15:18:58 No, 14:00UTC is right 15:19:06 it is now 15:18 UTC 15:19:09 I thought the adgenda time would have taken that into account? 15:19:32 really, my converter said 1400utc was 10 am Atlantic. Ugh 15:20:03 well, maybe we can talk about the best way to give spec feedback? 15:20:34 sure 15:21:40 I was thinking notes corresponding to the section numbers. 15:22:41 Sounds perfect 15:23:04 Every section has it's own URL, so quoting that and then the comments would help the editors 15:23:12 s/it's/its/ 15:23:20 (I hate people who do that :-) ) 15:23:25 :) 15:23:31 I can do that. 15:23:52 and the correct version of the spec that I should look at is at? 15:25:27 the latest editor's draft 15:25:29 and I think we said before it was better to give feedback in stages 15:25:32 see: 15:25:46 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml2 15:26:12 In stages makes it easier to digest, that's for sure 15:26:56 Ok--I'll send you something for the next call. 15:27:12 I also want to look at a couple of the groups that are putting out primers 15:27:25 I have those in my motes somewhere from the conference. 15:27:33 notes... 15:28:40 Sure. 15:28:54 Take a look at XForms for HTML Authors too 15:29:02 (which is a primer for XForms) 15:29:23 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2003/xforms-for-html-authors.html 15:30:24 ok--thanks. That should keep me busy for a while 15:30:34 have a nice afternoon 16:24:43 brianlandau has joined #xhtml 16:37:15 Lachy has joined #xhtml 16:40:00 Lachy has joined #xhtml 17:03:41 Zakim has left #xhtml 17:30:19 Lachy has joined #xhtml