17:00:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #owl
17:00:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/19-owl-irc
17:00:48 <Zakim> +Carsten
17:01:03 <Zakim> +MikeSmith
17:01:28 <MikeSmith> ok, seemed to just need the zakim invite to open things up
17:01:29 <Carsten> zakim, mute me
17:01:29 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted
17:01:42 <Zakim> +??P6
17:01:49 <bijan> zakim, ??p6 is me
17:01:49 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
17:01:56 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:01:56 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
17:02:14 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg
17:02:50 <MikeSmith> zakim, who is on the call
17:02:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', MikeSmith
17:03:29 <MikeSmith> zakim, who's here?
17:03:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P2 (muted), +44.789.107.aaaa (muted), Carsten (muted), MikeSmith, bijan (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg
17:03:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Carsten, MikeSmith, uli, bijan, sandro, trackbot-ng
17:03:46 <uli> zakim, ??P2 is me
17:03:51 <Zakim> +uli; got it
17:04:15 <uli> jeremy
17:04:19 <bijan> alanr
17:05:03 <uli> do we have an agenda?
17:05:22 <MikeSmith> Agenda at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/DataType.Telecon.2007.11.19/Agenda
17:08:33 <MikeSmith> mike: introduces agenda, rqmts for in-line, external data types
17:08:46 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
17:08:46 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
17:08:58 <bijan> http://protege.stanford.edu/plugins/owl/xsp.html
17:09:13 <MikeSmith> alanr: innteresting to hear what the motivation is for in-line datatypes.  what would go wrong with just external?
17:09:56 <MikeSmith> bijan: people don't like having definitions in external file, experience from Protege 3.x
17:10:49 <MikeSmith> bijan: avoid overhead for always naming types
17:11:52 <MikeSmith> alanr: is there an argument that necessitates a separate syntax for RDF/OWL?
17:12:16 <MikeSmith> bijan: the argument is that its not clear tools could find XML Schema syntax in-line
17:12:28 <MikeSmith> q?
17:12:57 <MikeSmith> bijan: some argue its more familiar for people from RDF background
17:13:11 <uli> q+
17:13:33 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:13:33 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
17:13:55 <MikeSmith> ack
17:14:00 <MikeSmith> q+ alan
17:14:47 <MikeSmith> zakim, +44.789,107.aaaa is jeremy
17:14:47 <Zakim> sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789,107.aaaa'
17:14:51 <MikeSmith> zakim, +44.789,107.aaaa is jjc
17:14:51 <Zakim> sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789,107.aaaa'
17:14:58 <MikeSmith> zakim, +aaaa is jjc
17:14:58 <Zakim> sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+aaaa'
17:15:03 <MikeSmith> zakim, aaaa is jjc
17:15:03 <Zakim> +jjc; got it
17:15:39 <MikeSmith> jjc: unnamed datatypes are advantageous, use-case for in-line user defined datatypes
17:16:03 <MikeSmith> q- jjc
17:16:23 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg
17:16:49 <MikeSmith> jjc: issue with serialization of XMLLiterals in RDF/XML, particularly qnames in attributes
17:17:13 <MikeSmith> q- aaaa
17:17:15 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg
17:17:21 <MikeSmith> q-
17:17:46 <MikeSmith> acks next
17:18:20 <MikeSmith> acks uli
17:18:42 <MikeSmith> uli: issue with XML schema types is closely related to using other types in OWL
17:18:47 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-c14n#NoNSPrefixRewriting
17:19:07 <bijan> q+ to reply to uli
17:20:02 <bijan> I can almost define rationals in xml schema
17:20:16 <bijan> Definiteately in XML schema + an additional constraint
17:20:19 <MikeSmith> acks alan
17:20:34 <MikeSmith> zakim, who's talking
17:20:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's talking', MikeSmith
17:20:39 <MikeSmith> zakim, who is talking
17:20:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', MikeSmith
17:20:44 <uli> bijan, ...i see - but will they look like the "true" xml schema types? 
17:20:50 <bijan> yep
17:20:54 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
17:20:54 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
17:21:25 <MikeSmith> acks bijan
17:21:25 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to reply to uli
17:21:46 <MikeSmith> alan: concern over defiing, e.g. owl:rational
17:22:19 <MikeSmith> bijan: owl extensibility requires URIs.  owl:rational could be defined, doesn't seem to be a big deal
17:23:12 <MikeSmith> bijan: clarifying Uli, Alan, are you saying reusing XML Schema syntax might put burden on future datatypes
17:23:25 <MikeSmith> uli: concern was that other datatypes look like native types
17:23:36 <MikeSmith> bijan: yes, I believe that they would
17:23:58 <MikeSmith> bijan: we could use a relax ng type syntax as an inline syntax
17:24:00 <MikeSmith> q?
17:24:25 <MikeSmith> acks jjc
17:24:55 <MikeSmith> jjc: take it that XML Schema types are a given, largely b/c OWL 1.0 supported XML Schema types
17:25:12 <MikeSmith> jjc: query about how the value space mapping for rational could work
17:25:21 <MikeSmith> q?
17:26:19 <MikeSmith> discussion of representation of rational as pair of integers
17:26:38 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:26:38 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
17:29:19 <MikeSmith> discussion of XSCD, what they offer, are needed
17:29:55 <MikeSmith> jjc: the rqmt for us, is less than all of XSCD. we could take less of a solution if it provided re-usable URIs
17:30:22 <MikeSmith> a query has been sent to the XML Schema WG chair on the status of XSCD
17:32:21 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
17:32:21 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
17:33:06 <MikeSmith> alanr: can we say that if URI is present you can reference external
17:33:08 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:33:08 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
17:33:24 <MikeSmith> alanr: suggest we move forward with that proposal, on Wed telecon
17:34:13 <Zakim> -jjc
17:34:15 <Zakim> -Carsten
17:34:15 <uli> bye
17:34:15 <Zakim> -bijan
17:34:17 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg
17:34:17 <Zakim> -MikeSmith
17:34:19 <uli> uli has left #owl
17:34:24 <Zakim> -uli
17:34:26 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
17:34:27 <Zakim> Attendees were MikeSmith, +44.789.107.aaaa, Carsten, bijan, Alan_Ruttenberg, uli, jjc
17:34:57 <MikeSmith> scribenick: mikesmith
17:35:08 <MikeSmith> scribenick:  MikeSmith
17:35:21 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make record public
17:42:40 <MikeSmith> rrsagent, publish minutes
17:42:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/19-owl-minutes.html MikeSmith
17:56:04 <MikeSmith> zakim, leave
17:56:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #owl
19:35:18 <sandro> sandro has joined #owl
21:20:18 <sandro> sandro has joined #owl