13:15:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
13:15:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/31-er-irc
13:15:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #er
13:15:38 <shadi> zakim, this will be ert
13:15:38 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
13:15:45 <shadi> meeting: ERT WG
13:15:48 <shadi> chair: Shadi
13:16:27 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Oct/0016.html
13:16:37 <shadi> agenda+ Check-in on open action items
13:16:45 <shadi> agenda+ Review HTTP Vocabulary in RDF
13:23:00 <shadi> zakim, ping me in 5
13:23:00 <Zakim> ok, shadi
13:28:00 <Zakim> shadi, you asked to be pinged at this time
13:28:57 <JohannesK> JohannesK has joined #er
13:31:02 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has now started
13:31:09 <Zakim> +CarlosV
13:31:21 <JohannesK> Zakim, CarlosV is really JohannesK
13:31:21 <Zakim> +JohannesK; got it
13:31:30 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:31:57 <CarlosV> CarlosV has joined #er
13:32:48 <Zakim> +JohannesK.a
13:32:51 <drooks> drooks has joined #er
13:32:52 <carlosI> carlosI has joined #er
13:33:15 <Zakim> +drooks
13:33:15 <JohannesK> Zakim, JohannesK.a is really CarlosV
13:33:16 <Zakim> +CarlosV; got it
13:34:37 <Zakim> +Carlos_Iglesias
13:35:32 <shadi> scribe: CarlosI
13:35:48 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
13:35:48 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Check-in on open action items" taken up [from shadi]
13:36:11 <carlosI> SAZ: fairly short today
13:36:17 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Oct/0014
13:36:28 <carlosI> SAZ: check for open action items
13:37:00 <carlosI> http://pruebas.fundacionctic.org/uaw/Pointers_DRAFT.rdf
13:37:34 <carlosI> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Sep/0026.html
13:38:15 <shadi> agenda+ Draft RDFS schema for Pointer Methods
13:38:35 <carlosI> SAZ: what about RDF schema for pointer methods?
13:38:43 <carlosI> CI: have an early draft
13:39:05 <carlosI> CI: based on the last model we discussed about
13:39:33 <carlosI> CI: some comments about open issues in the schema
13:41:04 <carlosI> SAZ: CV what about content draft?
13:41:15 <carlosI> CV: work in progress...
13:41:59 <carlosI> SAZ: TP next week, try to get some advance in the meanwhile if BTW allows
13:42:34 <shadi> agenda+ Next Meeting
13:43:33 <carlosI> SAZ: DR would you be able to read the last HTTP in RDF?
13:43:37 <shadi> action: Shadi finalize the updated "EARL 1.0 Schema Editors Draft"
13:43:38 <carlosI> DR: OK
13:43:55 <shadi> action: CarlosV and Johannes prepare first "Content" Editors Draft
13:44:32 <shadi> action: David peer-review HTTP Vocabulary in RDF Editors Draft and send coments to the list
13:45:46 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:45:46 <carlosI> SAZ: interesting to know relation with MWBP checker moki vocabulary
13:45:48 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Review HTTP Vocabulary in RDF" taken up [from shadi]
13:46:31 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Oct/0015
13:46:41 <carlosI> DR: can't help, not in this TF
13:47:22 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/HTTP/WD-HTTP-in-RDF-20070914
13:47:37 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/HTTP/WD-HTTP-in-RDF-20070914#bodyProperty
13:47:48 <carlosI> SAZ: some open comments in HTTP in RDF
13:49:05 <Zakim> -drooks
13:49:47 <carlosI> JK: 2.2.1 body property
13:49:51 <Zakim> +drooks
13:49:59 <Zakim> -drooks
13:50:26 <Zakim> +drooks
13:50:51 <carlosI> JK: you can have various representations of the same content
13:51:01 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_alt
13:51:02 <carlosI> JK: byte, text, xml...
13:51:08 <carlosI> JK: how to model?
13:51:19 <carlosI> JK: could use rdf:Alt?
13:51:30 <shadi> "The first member of the container, i.e. the value of the rdf:_1 property, is the default choice."
13:52:25 <carlosI> SAZ: what should be the default representation may be another discussion
13:52:50 <carlosI> JK: maybe Bag too generally
13:53:07 <carlosI> SAZ: certainly not a rdf:Seq
13:53:53 <carlosI> SAZ: options are rdf:Alt rdf:Bag or no list at all
13:54:42 <carlosI> CV: prefer not list at all
13:55:02 <carlosI> SAZ: what is your reasoning to avoid using the semantic of a list
13:56:27 <carlosI> CI: the key question is they are equivalent not alternative
13:56:38 <carlosI> CI: you can choose one or several
13:56:51 <carlosI> CI: musn´t be forced to choose just one
13:57:59 <carlosI> JK: can create a new object, a sort of equivalent container
13:58:23 <carlosI> SAZ: not sure about the value
13:58:47 <carlosI> SAZ: let's keep it for now and put an editorial's note asking for feedback
13:59:34 <carlosI> JK: is your proposal havin multiple bodies properties?
13:59:37 <carlosI> SAZ: yes
14:00:45 <carlosI> SAZ: looks good, just a little bit of clean up and wait for the Content
14:01:04 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2006/http#
14:01:12 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2006/http-headers#
14:02:12 <shadi> s/http://www.w3.org/2006/http-headers#/http://www.w3.org/2006/http-header#
14:03:39 <carlosI> JK: references for files, not namespaces
14:03:47 <carlosI> JK: rdf, not rdfs
14:05:59 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:05:59 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Draft RDFS schema for Pointer Methods" taken up [from shadi]
14:06:06 <shadi> http://pruebas.fundacionctic.org/uaw/Pointers_DRAFT.rdf
14:06:38 <shadi> scribe: shadi
14:07:36 <shadi> CI: subclass rdf:Bag and reuse it for specific purpose
14:07:50 <shadi> ...to use the rdf:li items
14:08:01 <shadi> JK: think that should be legal, yes
14:08:22 <shadi> CI: easier to understand this approach, and also more logic
14:08:33 <shadi> ...have containers with groups of pointers
14:08:53 <shadi> ...we can think about Sequences or Alternative lists too
14:09:24 <shadi> JK: problem with RDF lists is that you can't describe the types of object in the lists
14:09:38 <shadi> ...it would be legal to add *anything* into the group
14:10:07 <shadi> CI: can't subclass the rdf:li property
14:10:25 <shadi> ...to change the range of the property?
14:11:37 <shadi> SAZ: did you try running this code through some of the RDF validators and parsers?
14:12:07 <shadi> CI: it is valid, haven't tried subclassing the rdf:li property
14:12:34 <JohannesK> <http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_container>
14:12:45 <shadi> JK: there is no real rdf:li, it is a variable property
14:13:13 <JohannesK> <http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_containermembershipproperty>
14:14:40 <JohannesK> <http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_member>
14:15:15 <shadi> SAZ: the RDF validator focuses primarily on the schema and validity, others try to explore the semantics
14:15:46 <shadi> ...mainly OWL validators, they spot important issues such as if certain restrictions can not be met
14:16:08 <shadi> ...there is a mail about some of these parsers somewhere on the mailing list
14:17:24 <shadi> JK: no range for the reference property?
14:17:35 <shadi> SAZ: no range, it could be anything
14:20:32 <shadi> [discussion if should have a range, and what it would be]
14:23:08 <shadi> action: CarlosI to finalize draft RDFS (check with validators/parsers), and send comments/questions to the mailing loist
14:23:57 <shadi> action: all to review draft RDFS proposal by CarlosI and send comments to the list
14:24:43 <shadi> CI: should we make equivalent pointer class a subclass of single pointer?
14:25:05 <shadi> ...all the equivalents point to the same place
14:26:05 <Zakim> -CarlosV
14:26:09 <shadi> SAZ: sound good, would be easier to see in the hierarchy model (see thread on the mailing list)
14:26:44 <shadi> JK: reference properties could be different between the container and the pointers
14:27:01 <shadi> CI: we have the same problem in many other instances
14:27:37 <shadi> JK: we removed it from the equivalent pointer class to avoid this problem, we are reintroducing it by using single pointer
14:27:51 <shadi> CI: we have the same problem in compound pointer and elsewhere
14:28:38 <shadi> JK: agree, we also agreed that it may sometimes make sense to have different references (although the pointers are equivalent)
14:28:47 <shadi> ...however, what is the logic in this case?
14:29:25 <shadi> CI: we have to think more about the reference and see how we can provde more guidance
14:31:08 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:31:08 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Next Meeting" taken up [from shadi]
14:31:40 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:32:18 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:34:36 <shadi> next meeting tentatively 14 Novemeber (regrets from Shadi)
14:35:02 <shadi> meeting after on 21 November
14:35:52 <Zakim> -drooks
14:35:56 <Zakim> -JohannesK
14:35:59 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:36:04 <Zakim> -Carlos_Iglesias
14:36:05 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has ended
14:36:06 <Zakim> Attendees were JohannesK, Shadi, drooks, CarlosV, Carlos_Iglesias
14:36:17 <shadi> zakim, bye
14:36:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #er
14:36:23 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:36:27 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:36:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/31-er-minutes.html shadi
14:36:28 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:36:33 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
14:36:33 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/31-er-actions.rdf :
14:36:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shadi finalize the updated "EARL 1.0 Schema Editors Draft" [1]
14:36:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/31-er-irc#T13-43-37
14:36:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CarlosV and Johannes prepare first "Content" Editors Draft [2]
14:36:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/31-er-irc#T13-43-55
14:36:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David peer-review HTTP Vocabulary in RDF Editors Draft and send coments to the list [3]
14:36:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/31-er-irc#T13-44-32
14:36:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CarlosI to finalize draft RDFS (check with validators/parsers), and send comments/questions to the mailing loist [4]
14:36:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/31-er-irc#T14-23-08
14:36:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all to review draft RDFS proposal by CarlosI and send comments to the list [5]
14:36:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/31-er-irc#T14-23-57