14:52:17 RRSAgent has joined #swd 14:52:17 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/23-swd-irc 14:52:21 rrsagent, bookmark 14:52:21 See http://www.w3.org/2007/10/23-swd-irc#T14-52-21 14:52:26 zakim, this will be swd 14:52:26 ok, Tom, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started 14:52:30 Meeting: SWD WG 14:52:32 Chair: Tom 14:52:45 +[LC] 14:52:57 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0095.html 14:53:14 zakim, LC is Clay 14:53:14 +Clay; got it 14:54:57 Antoine has joined #swd 14:55:00 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html 14:55:10 Regrets: Ralph 14:55:41 rrsagent, please make record public 14:55:53 edsu has joined #swd 14:56:45 Scribe: Clay 14:56:51 scribenick: clay 14:57:12 Guus has joined #swd 14:57:49 +[LC] 14:58:06 zakim, LC is Edsu 14:58:06 +Edsu; got it 14:59:18 vit has joined #swd 14:59:32 seanb has joined #swd 14:59:49 + +20420aaaa 15:00:08 zakim, aaaa is Antoine 15:00:08 +Antoine; got it 15:00:33 JonP has joined #swd 15:01:00 +??P38 15:01:33 cgi-irc has joined #swd 15:01:44 aliman has joined #swd 15:02:22 + +012242aabb 15:02:46 seanb has joined #swd 15:02:52 +??P40 15:04:38 TOPIC: Actions from pre-Amsterdam telecon (Oct 2) 15:04:46 +??P53 15:04:55 ACTION: Ben to send formal request to send mail proposing Draft of RDFa Syntax and Publish new version of RDFa Primer, both on REC track) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-minutes.html#action06] 15:05:00 --done 15:05:07 zakim, ??P53 is seanb 15:05:12 +seanb; got it 15:05:13 ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05] 15:05:16 --done 15:05:32 ACTION: all to register (indicate also that you're not planning to attend and/or want to attend via telecon) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-minutes.html#action09 15:05:37 --done 15:05:51 ACTION: Antoine to make wiki page or list posting summarizing issues for "Concept Semantics" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-swd-minutes.html#action07] 15:05:53 --done 15:06:04 ACTION: Diego, Ed and Justin to review RDFa syntax document prior to f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html#action10 15:06:06 --done 15:06:18 ACTION: Elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action06] 15:06:19 --done 15:06:30 ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about Issue-36 ConceptSchemeContainment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] 15:06:32 --done 15:07:03 ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04] 15:07:05 --done 15:07:30 ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-25 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05] 15:07:33 --continues 15:07:41 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] 15:07:43 --continues 15:08:08 TOPIC: Admin 15:08:37 TomB: propose to accept minutes 15:08:49 +Guus_Schreiber 15:08:57 ...including minutes from face-to-face 15:08:58 +Jon_Phipps 15:09:48 Antoine: notes some resolutions might not have been properly recorded 15:09:59 zakim, Jon_Phipps is me 15:09:59 +JonP; got it 15:10:31 Guus: postpone the decision accepting the minutes 15:10:37 --continues 15:11:34 TomB: next telecon on 10/30 will be altered by one hour for London, Amsterdam due to time changes 15:12:25 ... possibly cancel 11/06 meeting? 15:12:43 Proposal to telecon meet for 11/06 15:13:37 RESOLVED: that 11/06 meeeting will take place and 11/13 meeting will not. 1600 UTC time for 11/06. 15:14:42 TOPIC: SWD review of "Cool URIs for the Semantic Web" 15:15:06 TomB: Michael has drafted some sentences for the authors 15:15:48 which URI is TOm reading? 15:15:56 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/ReviewCoolURIs 15:16:51 TomB: have a brief discussion or agree that these sentence capture the points we want to make. The SWEO is looking forward to the feedback. Propose to accept comments as stated and forward to SWEO. 15:17:08 Ed: wants to go on record as saying that the wording is a bit strong. 15:17:31 TomB: agreed. Authors can take the comments as input. 15:18:46 Ed: feels that the recommendations of the Cool URI document and RDFa are not mutually exclusive 15:19:06 +1 on what Ed said, RDFa and cool URIs needs more thought 15:20:06 TomB: leave it to the SWEO folks to wordsmith. Wording could be improved. 15:20:14 Ed: agrees 15:20:15 +1 wrt the wording is perhaps too exclusionary 15:20:39 RESOLVED: Michael to forward comments to SWEO noting that the wording could be wordsmithed 15:20:55 TOPIC: SKOS 15:21:18 TomB: I transcribed the resolutions from Amsterdam, mostly from labelling properties discussion 15:22:22 ... resolution on concept semantics might not have been caputred fully? 15:23:40 Antoine: these were not formalized. there were 3. 1. SKOS concepts are of type RDFS class. 2. SKOS Concept is of owl:Class. 3. SKOS Concept instance of classes and disjoint with owl:Class. 15:24:01 s/RDFS class/rdfs:Class/ 15:24:07 s/disjoint/no statement about disjoint/ 15:24:29 q+ to comment about skos reference 15:25:03 TomB: propose action on Antoine to formulate 3 resolutions for Amsterdam topic Concept Semantics posted to the list. 15:25:12 ... as a basis for amending meeting record. 15:25:50 ACTION: Antoine to formulate 3 resolutions for Amsterdam topic Concept Semantics posted to the list. as a basis for amending meeting record. 15:26:06 q+ to ask about deprecation of inScheme 15:26:34 Sean: semantic relation properties: fine. 15:28:05 ACTION: Tom to amend proposals to for accepting minimal relation labels 15:28:15 cgi-irc has joined #swd 15:30:11 q+ to comment on label relations resolution 15:30:52 TomB: recalls that we decided to accept the resolution and to have an action of proposing label resource. 15:30:58 ack aliman 15:30:58 aliman, you wanted to comment about skos reference and to comment on label relations resolution 15:31:36 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Reference 15:31:42 Alistair: tried to put all resolutions in a new WIki draft of a skos reference document 15:31:53 Simone has joined #swd 15:31:59 ... if this isn't what people remember, ping Alistair 15:32:14 +??P22 15:33:19 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Reference/LabelRelations 15:33:57 Alistair: skos reference label relations section. skos:labelRelated is in there tentatively, etc. 15:34:24 q+ to add a resolution on concept scheme topic 15:35:49 I understood we could always go back to an issue and change our mind in the light of further discussion ... no double jeopardy :) 15:36:54 ack JonP 15:36:54 JonP, you wanted to ask about deprecation of inScheme 15:36:57 Guus: we took a resolution on the general approach. 15:37:04 ... resolutions can be reopened 15:37:14 ack Antoine 15:37:14 Antoine, you wanted to add a resolution on concept scheme topic 15:38:01 Antoine: in end of minutes there are lines about concept scheme. Decisions were made that were not compiled in the list as resolved. 15:38:46 ACTION: Antoine to list decisions made about concept scheme 15:38:54 ack JonP 15:39:44 Jon: I don't believe that we voted on deprecating inScheme in favor of isDefinedBy. If this is resolved, it needs further discussion. 15:39:59 s/in favor of/inFavorOf/ 15:40:14 s/inFavorOf/in favor of/ 15:40:44 ACTION: Guus to post an interpretation of the Amsterdam discussion of isDefinedBy 15:41:57 Btw I forgot about skos:inScheme and skos:hasTopConcept when I did the first bake of SKOS reference, have just added some TODOs to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Reference/ConceptSchemes 15:42:18 aliman++ 15:42:23 Tom: 1. what did we decide in Amsterdam, and Guus needs the interepretation of the discussion 15:43:02 Alistair: added some TODOs 15:43:30 q+ to ask Jon P to raise a new issue for skos:inScheme, with feedback 15:43:34 --continues 15:43:36 --continues 15:43:57 TOPIC: RDFa 15:44:12 q- 15:45:14 Antoines review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0090.html 15:45:39 ACTION: antoine to review RDFa Primer before next telecon (within two weeks). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action01] 15:45:44 --done 15:47:14 JonP -- I've heard some similar feedback on losing skos:inScheme, it'd be great if you could capture in a new issue. If we do keep skos:inScheme, I think it needs to be clarified, because it was in a way weaker than rdfs:isDefinedBy -- a SKOS concept could be skos:inScheme any number of schemes; but rdfs:isDefinedBy suggests only one scheme. So do we want to express a notion of one distinguished s 15:47:16 cheme for any concept, in which it is defined? Do we also want to allow concepts to be "in" other schemes too? How does this interact with using owl:imports? 15:47:21 RESOLVED: to approve publications of RDFa Primer as a working draft 15:47:49 ACTION: Ben and Michael to address comments by Tom [regarding maintenance of wiki document http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05] 15:47:51 --continues 15:47:58 ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule in wiki [http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action04] 15:48:01 --continues 15:48:08 ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03] 15:48:10 JonP: i would be interested in the feedback you got as well 15:48:10 --continues 15:48:17 ACTION: Guus/Tom to propose joint decisions for reviews for major [RDFa] steps/transition requests. Informal agreement about working drafts. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action02] 15:48:24 --continues 15:48:29 TOPIC: Recipes 15:50:12 ACTION: Diego to recast Recipe 6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action02] 15:50:15 --continues 15:50:24 ACTION: Jon to add words that acknowledge the existence of RDFa as potential mechanisms, but it's out of scope here. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action06] 15:50:26 --continues 15:50:33 ACTION: Jon to make changes as proposed [with regard to Issue-23] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action05] 15:50:36 --continues 15:50:44 ACTION: Ralph to come up with a URI for wiki page [for Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action04] 15:50:46 --continues 15:50:56 ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action03] 15:50:58 --continues 15:51:07 ACTION: TF leaders to prepare a version of Recipes for review in December [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action09] 15:51:08 --continues 15:51:22 ACTION: Guus/Tom to solicit reviewers for the Recipes document. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action08] 15:51:25 --continues 15:51:48 aliman, edsu: I'll put together an email to the list wrt inScheme deprecation feedback 15:51:51 ACTION: Dan to ask apache about conditional redirects [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action07] 15:51:56 --continues 15:52:08 Alistair's half of that task is done 15:52:14 TOPIC: Vocabulary management 15:52:26 ACTION: Vit and Elisa to include in the document all the target sections plus an allocation of sections to people and potentially a standard structure for sections [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07] 15:52:34 --continues 15:55:59 q+ 15:56:01 aliman's reference document: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Reference 15:56:09 Alistair: talks in greater detail about the SKOS Reference, was SKOS Semantics, referenced earlier in the meeting. SKOS Semantics is deprecated. 15:57:01 JonP: thanks, that would be very useful for me here at LC 15:57:32 Guus: asking about Alistair's recording semantics in documents. 15:58:01 Alistair: didn't add them in verbatim from meeting, but made editorial adjustments 16:00:08 -??P22 16:00:09 -Quentin 16:00:10 -vit 16:00:11 -Aliman 16:00:12 -Guus_Schreiber 16:00:13 meeting adjourned 16:00:13 -Edsu 16:00:15 -Antoine 16:00:16 -JonP 16:00:18 -seanb 16:00:28 Antoine: you still there? 16:00:38 zakim, who attended 16:00:38 I don't understand 'who attended', Tom 16:00:46 zakim, list attendees 16:00:46 As of this point the attendees have been Clay, Edsu, +20420aaaa, Antoine, vit, TomB, +012242aabb, Quentin, Aliman, seanb, Guus_Schreiber, JonP 16:01:47 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:01:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/23-swd-minutes.html Tom 16:02:13 Antoine: i'm not on call either -- it's ok, i was wondering about a couple things 1) if you had played with lcsh/rameau/skos at all 2) if we need an action re: the primer 16:02:41 -Clay 16:02:55 -TomB 16:02:56 SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended 16:02:57 Attendees were Clay, Edsu, +20420aaaa, Antoine, vit, TomB, +012242aabb, Quentin, Aliman, seanb, Guus_Schreiber, JonP 16:03:55 Antoine: absolutely :) 16:04:20 Antoine: things are heating up here with respect to lcsh/skos -- so i'm likely to be doing some conversions in the next week or so 16:04:50 Antoine: i'll email you with any developments 16:05:22 seanb has left #swd 16:05:56 edsu has left #swd 16:06:53 Antoine has left #swd