14:58:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xproc
14:58:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-xproc-irc
14:58:37 <Norm> Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
14:58:39 <Norm> Date: 18 October 2007
14:58:43 <Norm> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/10/18-agenda
14:58:45 <Norm> number Meeting: 88, T-minus 2 weeks
14:58:47 <Norm> Chair: Norm
14:58:49 <Norm> Scribe: Norm
14:58:51 <Norm> ScribeNick: Norm
15:01:16 <avernet> avernet has joined #xproc
15:01:21 <Norm> Zakim, this will be xproc
15:01:21 <Zakim> ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:33 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started
15:01:40 <Zakim> +[ArborText]
15:02:15 <Zakim> +??P8
15:02:19 <avernet> zakim, ? is avernet
15:02:19 <Zakim> +avernet; got it
15:03:10 <MoZ> Zakim, what is the code ?
15:03:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MoZ
15:03:32 <ht> zakim, please call ht-781
15:03:32 <Zakim> ok, ht; the call is being made
15:03:34 <Zakim> +Ht
15:03:52 <ht> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:56 <Zakim> + +95247aaaa
15:04:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see PGrosso, avernet, Ht, +95247aaaa
15:04:03 <MoZ> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:04:12 <Zakim> +MoZ; got it
15:05:26 <Andrew> Andrew has joined #xproc
15:05:30 <ht> Norm, shall I start the call w/o you?
15:05:55 <Zakim> +??P25
15:06:02 <Andrew> zakim, ? is Andrew
15:06:03 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
15:06:28 <MoZ> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see PGrosso, avernet, Ht, MoZ, Andrew
15:06:38 <ht> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/10/18-agenda
15:08:06 <ht> scribe: ht
15:08:12 <ht> HST: Agenda approved
15:08:27 <ht> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/10/11-minutes
15:08:48 <ht> HST: Minutes approved
15:09:29 <Zakim> +Norm
15:09:30 <ht> HST: Next meeting 25 October
15:10:20 <ht> HST: NW apologies for 25 Oct and 1 Nov, HST to be in the chair _pro tem_
15:11:38 <ht> HST: Charter has been extended for 1 year
15:11:50 <ht> PG: F2F agenda?
15:12:08 <ht> NW: one day on comment processing, one day on the future, I guess
15:12:29 <ht> PG: I find a detailed agenda helps folk to be prepared
15:12:43 <ht> NW: Well, item 1 is "Read and be familiar with the details of the issues list"
15:12:53 <ht> scribenick: Norm
15:13:13 <Norm> s/scribe: ht/scribenick: ht/
15:13:24 <Norm> Topic: Charter extension
15:13:27 <Norm> Extended 1 yaer.
15:13:33 <Norm> s/yaer/year/
15:14:06 <Norm> Topic: Review of action items
15:14:36 <Norm> A-86-01: Alex to review XSLT streaming requirements before the face-to-face.
15:14:41 <Norm> Continued
15:14:48 <Norm> A-86-03: Henry to reply to the commenter (non-string parameters; issue 30)
15:14:52 <Norm> Completed
15:14:58 <Norm> A-86-04: Henry to craft the prose to cover the defaulted output case
15:15:17 <Norm> Continued
15:15:22 <Norm> A-87-01: Norm to take a stab at reconsidering the default inputs feature applying it only to ports that are not primary
15:15:25 <Norm> Continued.
15:15:30 <Norm> A-87-02: Alex to propose some text about imports and circularity
15:15:34 <Norm> Continued
15:15:39 <Norm> A-87-03: Norm to attempt to incorporate Richard's draft text about step type scope
15:15:42 <Norm> Continued.
15:16:10 <Norm> Topic: Comment 29: Determining whether a pipeline has a (defaulted) output
15:16:10 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#029
15:16:22 <Norm> Continued pending Henry's action
15:16:37 <Norm> Topic: Comment 6: Bindings for pipeline inputs
15:16:37 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#006
15:17:02 <Norm> Continued pending Norm's action
15:17:08 <Norm> Topic: Comment 18: Scope of step types
15:17:08 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#018
15:17:15 <Norm> Continued pending Norm's action
15:17:22 <Norm> Topic: Comment 24: Passing PSVIs between steps
15:17:22 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#024
15:19:16 <Norm> Norm outlines the issue and summarizes Jeni's observed options
15:19:58 <Norm> Henry: I think we leave it impl. defined. 
15:20:53 <Norm> Some discussion of how defaulted attributes fit in: probably covered by the spirit of the best efforts clause.
15:21:43 <Norm> Proposal: Leave it implementation-defined.
15:21:44 <Norm> Accepted.
15:22:21 <Norm> ACTION: Henry will respond to the commenter on comment 24: passing PSVIs between steps.
15:22:30 <Norm> Topic: Comment 7: Saxonica comments on sections 1 and 2
15:22:31 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#007
15:23:22 <Norm> Norm reviews the points in Mike's message.
15:23:27 <Norm> Point 1: accepted.
15:23:55 <Norm> Point 2: changed validate-* to validate-with-*; accepted.
15:25:13 <MoZ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2007Sep/0034.html
15:26:38 <Norm> Point 3-6 are editorial.
15:26:47 <Norm> Point 7: rejected, also made a separate issue
15:27:32 <Norm> Point 8: discussion
15:27:51 <Norm> Henry: I think we're pretty clear that we're not answering this question.
15:27:56 <Norm> ...We're trying not to be too precise.
15:29:30 <Norm> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/langspec.html#input-output
15:30:38 <Norm> Henry: No, that doesn't work. An XML document isn't an Infoset, the infoset is just a set of terms
15:31:26 <Norm> Henry: But maybe it's ok.
15:31:30 <Norm> ...Sure let's try this.
15:31:36 <Norm> Norm: What about A.3?
15:31:41 <Norm> Henry: Yes, that looks fine too.
15:32:14 <Norm> Norm: Anyone unhappy with the editor's resolution of Mike's point 8?
15:32:16 <Norm> None heard.
15:32:52 <Norm> Point 9:
15:32:53 <Norm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2007Oct/0003.html
15:34:03 <Norm> Norm: Anyone unhappy with the editor's resolution of Mike's point 9?
15:34:10 <Norm> None heard.
15:34:22 <Norm> That leaves some editorial clarifications, but I think we've covered the technical issues
15:34:42 <Norm> Topic: Comment 12: Saxonica comments on sections 3 and 4
15:34:42 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#012
15:35:11 <Norm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2007Sep/0023.html
15:35:54 <Norm> Let's leave the "editorial" and "clarification" points to the editor unless they turn out not to be
15:36:00 <Norm> Henry: I'm prepared to skip to 7.
15:37:11 <Norm> Henry: I think he's right.
15:37:19 <Norm> Norm: I don't think these apply to the things *inside* the elements in the step
15:37:40 <Norm> Henry: So you meant "children" not "contains"? If so, you'll have to repeat it endlessly.
15:37:43 <Norm> Norm: Uhm...
15:38:12 <Norm> Henry: Can't we just say that these rules don't apply inside p:inline?
15:38:17 <Norm> Norm: Perhaps
15:39:42 <Norm> Some discussion about what constitutes a step.
15:40:10 <Norm> Norm: I think children would work.
15:40:38 <Norm> Henry: What about giving the fifth and sixth bullets a parallel construction
15:40:51 <Norm> Henry: If any element in the XProc namespace other than p:inline, or any step, has text node children...
15:40:56 <Norm> Norm: Sure, that would work for me.
15:41:11 <Norm> Norm: I think that resolves point 7.
15:41:35 <Norm> Point 8:
15:42:59 <Norm> Henry: I think replacing "within its container" by "immediately contained by that steps container"
15:43:39 <Norm> ...Or if we've formally defined subpipline as the immediately contained steps, then "the last step in document order in the subpipeline"
15:43:51 <Norm> Norm: I'm happy to attempt to clarify that.
15:44:05 <Norm> Point 11:
15:46:30 <Norm> Some of this is editorail.
15:46:48 <Norm> Norm: I think we have clarified that select only selects elements or documents.
15:47:07 <Norm> Henry: I've always said that select needs the same namespace fixup we already described.
15:48:41 <Norm> Henry: We've already re-worded 4.2 so there isn't a double "each" anymore.
15:49:08 <Norm> Norm: But that leaves "wrapped" and an explicit pointer to 2.6.1
15:50:32 <Norm> Norm: The select question points to 5.2 and aon through to p:input where it's covered.
15:51:41 <Norm> Henry: No, I don't think we want to make the reference to 2.6.1 explicit.
15:51:58 <Norm> ACTION: Norm to see if the commenter agree's we've addressed his concerns.
15:52:41 <Norm> Point 12:
15:52:51 <Norm> Henry: I think we can replace "aggregated" with "concatentated" here.
15:53:01 <Norm> Norm: I'm willing to do that and see if it helps.
15:53:39 <Norm> Henry: The prose is still a bit terse.
15:54:03 <Norm> ...I think we should unpack it and make it more explicit.
15:54:05 <Norm> Norm: Ok.
15:54:20 <Norm> Point 13:
15:55:35 <Norm> Norm: We probably need to make the distinction between match and select more clear.
15:55:57 <Norm> Henry: Not that you need to make the point about match only matching element or document nodes here. There's no free ride.
15:57:09 <Norm> Norm: The WG's intent is clear but the prose needs to be clearer.
15:57:46 <Norm> Norm: Should we make it an error?
15:57:55 <Norm> s/error/error to select a document node/
15:57:58 <Norm> Henry: Yes.
15:58:03 <Norm> Accepted.
15:58:30 <MoZ> MoZ has joined #xproc
15:58:56 <Norm> Point 14:
15:59:02 <Norm> Norm: I think it can be a static error.
15:59:53 <Norm> Henry: Is this just a case where a processor could detect it statically if it wanted to?
16:00:33 <Norm> Norm: It could, but why not make it static?
16:00:57 <Norm> Henry: A select option to a step may be computed, so it has to be a dynamic error.
16:01:26 <Norm> Norm: But for select on our compound steps and for test on when, then they should be static errors.
16:01:54 <Norm> Henry: Let's try that and see if there's any pushback.
16:02:00 <Norm> Norm: Any objections?
16:02:04 <Norm> Accepted.
16:02:09 <Norm> Topic: Any other business
16:02:16 <Norm> Adjourned.
16:02:30 <Zakim> -avernet
16:02:55 <Zakim> -PGrosso
16:03:09 <Zakim> -Andrew
16:04:55 <PGrosso> PGrosso has left #xproc
16:05:05 <Zakim> -Ht
16:05:09 <Zakim> -Norm
16:05:11 <Zakim> -MoZ
16:05:15 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
16:05:17 <Zakim> Attendees were PGrosso, avernet, Ht, +95247aaaa, MoZ, Andrew, Norm
16:06:13 <Norm> RRSAgent, set logs world visible
16:06:13 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'set logs world visible', Norm.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:06:18 <Norm> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:06:44 <Norm> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:06:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-xproc-minutes.html Norm
16:07:21 <Norm> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:51:18 <MSM> MSM has joined #xproc
17:27:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #xproc
17:28:41 <Norm> RRSAgent, bye
17:28:41 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-xproc-actions.rdf :
17:28:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Henry will respond to the commenter on comment 24: passing PSVIs between steps. [1]
17:28:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-xproc-irc#T15-22-21
17:28:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Norm to see if the commenter agree's we've addressed his concerns. [2]
17:28:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-xproc-irc#T15-51-58