See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: Felix
<scribe> scribeNick: fsasaki
minutes of day 1 at http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-i18nits-minutes.html
minutes of day 2 at http://www.w3.org/2007/10/03-i18nits-minutes.html
Yves: 1/2, until lunch, we
discuss general BP issues, see
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007OctDec/0000.html
... after lunch we discuss future of ITS activities, and
outreach things like its2xliff
continuation of ISSUE-42 Position of "For existing DTD and schema:" material and material about new schemas
Yves: will come back to that later
Now ISSUE-43 Relation of "why do this" and "how to do this" material.
We have how to do information in the "why to do" section and "why to do section" that relates only to new schemas.
Felix: in minutes of day one
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-i18nits-minutes.html
, we saw this issue in BP 1, BP 7
... we also said that in the BP for authors, the distinction
between "How to do this" and "Why do this" is getting lost
Discussion brings proposal to have a paragraph in the beginning of the documet explaining the pattern for BPs
next, we need to check each BP whether "how to do this" and "why to do this" material is in the appropriate place
for some cases, we may add a paragraph (or more) between the blue text and the "How do this" which explains what we are talking about, e..g for ruby
agreement next issue
ISSUE-44 Mentioning of data categories
Richard: links should go to the data category sections, not to the formal definitions
e..g have a link for "Translate" data category like http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#trans-datacat
scribe: and *not* e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#translateRule
discussion reveals that this also relates to ISSUE-45
"What links should be in the resources section, how do you choose that?"
Yves: I'll need to check all the
grey text and come up with new descriptions of the links, and
do that on all BP case by case & globally
... and think about a new category, if necessray
... this resolves ISSUE-45, back to ISSUE-44
ISSUE-44 is resolved as:
text behind blue text is a description of what the BP is, *without* a relation to the data category
for the BP where the solution for the new stuff has to do with the data category, we mention ITS
<r12a-CZ> also
<r12a-CZ> "Make sure the its:dir attribute is defined for the root element " could become something like "The ITS 'directionality' data category provides the its:dir attribute. Ensure that this is defined for the root element "
<r12a-CZ> with a link to the data category on the 'data category' text and a link to the formal definition of its:dir on the 'its:dir' text
ISSUE-46 Links to sec. 4 general issue: there need to be more references from sec. 2 and sec. 3 to sec. 4
agreed on that, move on
ISSUE-47 Style of language http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-i18nits-minutes.html#item02 use more active voice, addressing reader with "you" etc., less passive
Richard will work on that, and we will try to recruite other readers
Jirka will produce an XSL-FO document for PDF generation
current charter at http://www.w3.org/2004/11/i18n-recharter/its-charter
Yves: plan is to be finished with BP document within this charter period - what to do after?
Rough consensus of f2f participants:
- Have an IG for 2 years
- Scope: outreach (coordinated with i18n activity)
- Gathering of possible requirements of possible features of ITS 1.0 / problems of current features
- (errata will not be handled, but IG might give input to a WG which handles them)
- Part of the outreach: helping out potential ITS implementers
- Overall goal: to gather an ITS users and implementers community
- workload: no regular calls or f2f, adhoc calls
- (and meetings)
- MLs mostly, in addition mainting pages with potential issues / new features and implementation news
- Mostly administrative support from W3C staff on a low scale
- "ML" means: a *new* ML for the IG
(not sure if ITS WG MLs (public and member) will be closed, need to check)
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to write a mail to WG about the plan for the future of ITS activities, see http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-i18nits-irc#T09-21-45 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-32 - Write a mail to WG about the plan for the future of ITS activities, see http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-i18nits-irc#T09-21-45 [on Yves Savourel - due 2007-10-11].
links page at http://www.w3.org/International/its/links.html
category 1 implementations are not listed on the page
see e.g. BP document
for examples of how ITS can be used. However, "real" implementations like SML 3.0+ITS (if available) would be nicer
gather a repository for various formats
(rules files for various formats)
about talks: we will have a talk at Unicode conference in two weeks, some more talks next week possibly
- See http://WWW/International/its/its2xliff/build.xml
- Input: XML document with local ITS markup or global rules. Example http://www.w3.org/International/its/its2xliff/inputdoc.xml
- Implementation implements: local and global "Translate" data category, globally (via xlink:href) linked rules. Besides xlink:href, currently no implementation specific mechanism to apply external global rules.
- Output 1): File with "flattened ITS information", that is: document tree is augmented with (a) "its-transval-elem" attributes for elements, and (b) similar attributes for attributes. (b) takes namespace prefix and no (or default) namespaces into account. Example: http://www.w3.org/International/its/its2xliff/flattenITSoutput.xml
<TITLE
(a) its-transval-elem="yes"
id="title1"
(b) transval-attr-p----p-id="no"
>X: IMPROVING PURCHASING MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET MONITORING</TITLE>
- Output 2): XLIFF file generated from 1). Example: http://www.w3.org/International/its/its2xliff/xliffoutput.xml .
- Java implementation: currently generates output 1) for local ITS markup. Working on global and linked rules.
- Questions: is output useful? Other output than XLIFF necessary? What options are useful?
PO files for gettext would be useful output
(GNUGETTEXT)
opportunity to have an external file with rules
having both XSLT and java implementation as an open source project e.g. at sourceforge
TMX output
project title should be generic, e.g. "ITS processor"
test suite output
run against test suite
(IG charter idea: should IG gather tests for test suite extension?)
extensions to ITS: idPointer, targetPointer
(IG group should gather requirments for extensions)
extension for white space handling
(like a global xml:space)
extension for identifying content (e.g. element with XHTML or Javascript)
using not XPath for global rules, but just a list of elements or schema annotations, useful for editors who cannot handle XPath for ITS sensitive editing
alternative to XPath might be CSS
no other agenda items!
early adjourn :) , we work offline at implementing resolutionsin the afternoon
WG thanks to Jirka and the Department of Information and Knowledge Engineering at the University of Economics Prague for the great hosting!
<r12a-CZ> http://rishida.net/blog/
Discussion of what links within the text body to use - "latest or this version" links
In some cases like xml:lang, only latest version links might be appropriate
In others like the ITS spec, this version links might be better, since the spec changes more than the XML spec
We need to go get feedback from others what to do . E.g. have http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-lang-tag or http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml-20060816/#sec-lang-tag
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to check links usage - latest version or not [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-33 - Check links usage - latest version or not [on Felix Sasaki - due 2007-10-11].