14:53:16 RRSAgent has joined #swd 14:53:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc 14:53:28 RRSAgent: bookmark 14:53:28 See http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T14-53-28 14:53:37 zakim, this will be swd 14:53:37 ok, edsu; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes 14:54:06 Meeting: SWD WG 14:54:14 Chair: Guus 14:54:40 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0002.html 14:55:33 TomB has joined #swd 14:55:42 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html 14:56:19 rrsagent, bookmark 14:56:19 See http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T14-56-19 14:56:26 hey Tom 14:57:07 need help setting up? 14:57:09 Regrets: Antoine 14:57:17 ah, fine... :-) 14:57:27 i think i've done everything on http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/Scribing.html 14:57:33 excellent :-) 14:57:45 when do you arrive in Amsterdam? 14:57:46 RRSAgent: please make record public 14:58:03 if all goes well on saturday 14:58:18 erm, i mean sunday early am 14:58:19 I'll see you on Sunday then 14:58:32 you arriving on sunday too? 14:58:36 afternoon 14:58:55 looking forward to it :) 14:58:57 Guus has joined #swd 14:59:01 i think we'll have an informal dinner on Sunday 14:59:22 sounds good 14:59:28 SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started 14:59:37 +[LC] 14:59:42 Clay has joined #swd 14:59:54 Zakim, LC is edsu 14:59:54 +edsu; got it 15:00:00 +??P10 15:00:09 zakim, ??P10 is me 15:00:09 +TomB; got it 15:00:42 vit has joined #swd 15:00:44 RalphS has joined #swd 15:00:50 +guus 15:00:53 hi tom, will be on the phone in a sec 15:00:54 Regrets+ Elisa 15:01:34 +Ralph 15:01:38 aliman has joined #swd 15:01:42 +[LC] 15:01:43 +[LC.a] 15:02:10 JonP has joined #swd 15:02:24 +??P30 15:02:44 +??P32 15:02:59 +JonP 15:03:19 Zakim, LC.a is Clay 15:03:19 +Clay; got it 15:03:22 zakim, who is talking? 15:03:27 zakim, lc is Justin 15:03:27 +Justin; got it 15:03:32 Guus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: edsu (19%), TomB (10%), Ralph (26%), [LC] (14%) 15:04:14 zakim, who is here? 15:04:17 On the phone I see edsu, TomB, [VrijeUni], Ralph, Justin, Clay, ??P30, ??P32, JonP 15:04:19 On IRC I see JonP, aliman, RalphS, vit, Clay, Guus, TomB, RRSAgent, Zakim, edsu 15:04:25 zakim, ??p30 is Vit 15:04:25 +Vit; got it 15:04:45 zakim, ??p32 is Alistair 15:04:45 +Alistair; got it 15:05:00 zakim, [vrije is Guus 15:05:00 +Guus; got it 15:05:32 Quent has joined #swd 15:06:18 seanb has joined #swd 15:06:38 Topic: Admin 15:06:48 Guus: propose to accept minutes 15:06:57 +??P42 15:07:12 RESOLVED Minutes PROPOSED to accept minutes of 25 Sep telecon: http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html 15:07:13 zakim, ??p42 is Sean 15:07:13 +Sean; got it 15:07:27 + +012242aaaa 15:08:01 Guus: planning dinner on monday at 8 15:08:32 Guus: will organize informal dinner on Sunday, and send on details later this week 15:08:40 +01224 = Quent 15:08:57 9 am 15:09:06 RalphS: do we know when we will be starting? 15:09:20 +benadida 15:09:48 Guus: 0900-1800 15:10:44 Topic: SWD review of "Cool URIs for the Semantic Web 15:10:44 RaI will arrange the usual telecon access code for the f2f 15:10:50 s/RaI/I/ 15:11:22 TomB: Leo posted to the list about the reviews 15:11:47 ... requested that swd summarize things that need to be revised 15:12:02 ... I merged the three reviews into a single document that Michael will edit 15:12:20 ... Michael proposed we remove style corrections, and focus on points of substance, and I agree 15:12:37 ... edit the file down to a short description of the points we need to agree on 15:13:13 ... I propose we put that on the agenda for discussion on Monday 5-6 15:14:06 Guus: he can ask us to combine them, but we don't necessarily need to agree on all the comments 15:14:25 RalphS: it's reasonable for him to ask us to discuss amongst ourselves 15:14:26 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/ReviewCoolURIs 15:14:37 TomB: thanks :) 15:14:50 Guus: any follow up action? 15:15:13 TomB: Michael is going to edit the document down, and if we agree to put it on the agenda then I'll add the various links to the agenda and to the pdf packet 15:15:29 Guus: do we feel it deserves time on our face to face? 15:15:56 TomB: I thought some issues were raised that are worth discussing in the context of vocabulary management, and it would follow on from that 15:16:36 vit: I agree 15:17:04 vit: don't think we'll need much time after vocab management discussion 15:17:23 Guus: i'd like to make it part of vocab management discussion 15:18:00 ACTION: Tom to write cover note to SWEO with links to 3 reviews and summary of main points + send to Working Group mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html#action02] 15:18:04 --DONE 15:18:30 Topic: SKOS 15:19:27 aliman: still have something to write about simple extension proposal 15:20:45 Guus: alistair and i will finish this up for the f2f 15:20:56 Amsterdam agenda topic: "Label relations" (Guus) 15:21:08 --CONTINUES 15:21:18 Guus: would be good if TomB would chair the discussion 15:21:27 ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward 15:21:31 --CONTINUES 15:21:42 CTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-25 15:21:57 s/CTION/ACTION/ 15:22:04 --CONTINUES 15:22:13 -> http://purl.org/net/skos/2007/10/f2f/labelling-properties.html Alistair's document on labelling properties 15:22:20 s/labelling/labeling/ 15:23:02 Amsterdam topic "Labeling properties" 15:23:11 RalphS: ok 15:23:25 s/S:/S,/ 15:23:40 aliman: there should be some initial discussion about what the semantics should be and then we'll get into the technical discussion of how we will implement that 15:24:04 Amsterdam topic "Semantic Relation Properties" (Sean) 15:24:16 Guus: is the input in the wiki what we shoudl consider? 15:24:30 seanb: key issue is whether broader/narrower are transitive or not 15:24:51 Guus: the debate around skos queries should make the issue become clearer 15:24:58 Amsterdam topic "Concept Semantics" (Antoine) 15:25:01 q+ to ask Sean if he has readings to add to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0004.html 15:25:20 seanb: do you want some sort presentation? 15:25:54 Guus: one thing you could do is to make clear what the decision points are -- what the working group needs to decide on 15:26:25 dlrubin has joined #swd 15:26:34 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0004.html [Tom] Amsterdam reading packet 15:26:37 TomB: i posted earlier today a list of links to various reading material 15:27:11 TomB: if people have additional readings let me know by tomorrow or thursday, then i'll post the pdf file to the wiki 15:27:29 TomB++ 15:27:34 +??P21 15:27:37 yes, TomB++ 15:27:41 zakim, ? is Daniel 15:27:41 +Daniel; got it 15:27:57 zakim, nick dlrubin is Daniel 15:27:57 ok, RalphS, I now associate dlrubin with Daniel 15:28:36 Amsterdam topic "Concept Semantics" (Antoine) 15:29:21 ACTION: Antoine to make wiki page or list posting summarizing issues for "Concept Semantics" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-swd-minutes.html#action07] 15:29:25 --CONTINUES 15:29:55 Amsterdam topic "Drawing the picture" - no discussion leader yet 15:30:23 Guus: how is this stated on the agenda? 15:30:48 TomB: concept scheme containment was talked about as an aspect of drawing the pictures, so i moved this action to this topic 15:31:23 ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about Issue-36 ConceptSchemeContainment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] 15:31:26 --CONTINUES 15:31:53 Guus: after the f2f we'll bring out new working drafts 15:32:06 ... alistair I expect you could use help with that 15:32:29 ... unlikely that dan could do that 15:32:43 aliman: haven't heard anything from dan about working on this 15:32:58 Guus: maybe people could think about whether they can help 15:33:23 aliman: skos primer and skos semantics are the documents in question 15:33:51 aliman: primer will need to be much more relaxed language, lots of examples, diagrams -- semantic will need to be formally precise, well worked out 15:33:59 Guus: what do we do first? :) 15:34:10 aliman: so far I've been working on the semantics first 15:34:29 ... makes it hard for others to work on, probably have to work on both at the same time 15:34:51 Guus: i would expect that we should be able to write the primer once we've taken a decision on the open issues at the f2f 15:35:02 aliman: we'd have at least 1/2 or the core 15:35:09 ... in the primer 15:35:28 Guus: would be nice if a vocabulary owner could be involved in the primer effort 15:35:43 Guus: will be a question that comes up at the f2f 15:36:23 Guus: well before the end of the year we should have either/or (maybe both) the primer and the semantics document published 15:36:38 Topic: RDFA 15:37:07 -> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html RDFa Task Force meeting record from last week 15:38:18 RalphS: decided whether we can use existing html namespace -- decided to propose a new html namespace, more consistent with semweb practices 15:38:34 -> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#item05 XHTML1.1 Namespace for rels 15:38:52 s/RDFA/RDFa/ 15:39:39 RalphS: I hope we'll be able to decide at the f2f whether to publish the syntax document 15:39:59 Guus: we should be able to decide to publish the syntax document 15:40:01 q+ to ask who has the action to put RDFa decisions onto the agenda 15:40:07 Guus: and whether to go rec-track 15:40:41 RalphS: different groups make test cases part of the rec-track package 15:40:51 RalphS: we can discuss at f2f 15:41:10 TomB, you wanted to ask Sean if he has readings to add to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0004.html and to ask who has the action to put RDFa decisions 15:41:11 Ben: I will be able to join 15:41:13 ... onto the agenda 15:41:46 TomB: who should take the action to add this to the f2f agenda? 15:42:13 Guus: I would hope Ben can link to do this 15:42:48 (I believe the two documents are already linked from the agenda) 15:43:51 (Ben, I believe Guus is asking that you send a mail proposing specifically the two questions: Publish First Public Working Draft of RDFa Syntax and Publish new version of RDFa Primer, both on REC track) 15:45:06 ACTION: Ben to send formal request to send mail proposing Draft of RDFa Syntax and Publish new version of RDFa Primer, both on REC track) 15:45:20 Topic: Recipes 15:45:50 Guus: JonP do you expect decisions on these issues (19-24) 15:45:57 JonP: it would be nice 15:46:24 Guus: do you also consider the cool uris to be relevant? 15:46:27 JonP: yes 15:47:04 Topic: Vocabulary Management 15:47:46 Guus: i see lots of discussion points and not many decision points 15:47:58 vit: it's what i'm working on right now 15:48:11 Guus: would be useful to have in advance to f2f 15:48:32 vit: there is one section in the presentation that address these issues, can i post this to the list? 15:48:56 Guus: yes, summarize them for the list 15:49:19 vit: am afraid it will be a little bit abstract, but the presentation will provide context, should be able to send email by tomorrow 15:50:40 ACTION: Vit to lead discussion about Vocabulary Management @ f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html#action17] 15:50:45 --DROPPED 15:51:10 ACTION: Elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action06] 15:51:13 --CONTINUES 15:51:46 seanb has left #swd 15:51:46 -Justin 15:51:47 -Clay 15:51:48 -Daniel 15:51:49 -Quent 15:51:50 -Vit 15:51:52 -Alistair 15:51:53 -TomB 15:51:53 dlrubin has left #swd 15:51:55 -benadida 15:51:56 -JonP 15:51:56 Guus: meeting adjourned 15:51:57 -Ralph 15:51:58 -Sean 15:52:12 -edsu 15:52:18 zakim, list participants 15:52:18 As of this point the attendees have been edsu, TomB, guus, Ralph, JonP, Clay, Justin, Vit, Alistair, Sean, benadida, Quent, Daniel 15:52:44 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:52:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-minutes.html edsu 15:53:03 -Guus 15:53:05 SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended 15:53:06 Attendees were edsu, TomB, guus, Ralph, JonP, Clay, Justin, Vit, Alistair, Sean, benadida, Quent, Daniel 15:54:51 RalphS: you there? 15:56:03 yes, ed 15:56:46 zakim, bye 15:56:46 Zakim has left #swd 15:57:01 ahh i got the irc transcript now, i think i saw a 403 for a bit there 15:57:50 I see several actions from http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html that didn't get carried forward 15:58:10 yeah, the -minutes.html file seemed to take a while to be accessible on all the mirrors 15:59:05 yeah, i see them too ralph 15:59:10 thanks 15:59:12 what's the best thing to do with those? 15:59:19 I'd just insert them 15:59:23 at the end? 15:59:42 or in the relevant places in the transcript as well? 15:59:42 yes, in the Summary of Actions 15:59:44 ok 15:59:46 sounds good 15:59:48 s/yes,/just/ 15:59:49 thanks 16:00:00 I'll await your edited copy :) 16:00:02 thanks for scribing 16:00:13 actually, hang on .. 16:00:21 no worries, sorry you won't be able to make it to amsterdam, was looking forward to meeting you 16:00:25 you could paste them here right now and regenerate the minutes 16:00:26 k 16:00:31 oh yeah? 16:00:36 yeah, sorry I won't be able to see folk in A'dam 16:00:47 ok i'll do that 16:00:51 (but if you regenerate then you'll have to edit out this conversation :) 16:01:10 heh, that shouldn't be hard ... 16:01:15 your choice 16:07:31 now to find them :) 16:08:04 ACTION: all to register (indicate also that you're not planning to attend and/or want to attend via telecon) 16:08:09 --CONTINUES 16:14:58 ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05] 16:15:01 --CONTINUES 16:16:31 ACTION: Diego, Ed and Justin to review RDFa syntax document prior to f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html#action10] 16:16:35 --CONTINUES 16:17:39 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] 16:17:43 --CONTINUES 16:18:38 i think that's all of them 16:19:02 can't remember if we skipped talking about them, or i just zoned out when it came to scribing 16:20:04 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:20:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-minutes.html edsu 17:52:55 rrsagent, bye 17:52:55 I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-actions.rdf : 17:52:55 ACTION: Tom to write cover note to SWEO with links to 3 reviews and summary of main points + send to Working Group mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html#action02] [1] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T15-18-00 17:52:55 ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [2] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T15-21-27 17:52:55 ACTION: Antoine to make wiki page or list posting summarizing issues for "Concept Semantics" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-swd-minutes.html#action07] [3] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T15-29-21 17:52:55 ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about Issue-36 ConceptSchemeContainment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] [4] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T15-31-23 17:52:55 ACTION: Ben to send formal request to send mail proposing Draft of RDFa Syntax and Publish new version of RDFa Primer, both on REC track) [5] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T15-45-06 17:52:55 ACTION: Vit to lead discussion about Vocabulary Management @ f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html#action17] [6] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T15-50-40 17:52:55 ACTION: Elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action06] [7] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T15-51-10 17:52:55 ACTION: all to register (indicate also that you're not planning to attend and/or want to attend via telecon) [8] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T16-08-04 17:52:55 ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05] [9] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T16-14-58 17:52:55 ACTION: Diego, Ed and Justin to review RDFa syntax document prior to f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-swd-minutes.html#action10] [10] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T16-16-31 17:52:55 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [11] 17:52:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-swd-irc#T16-17-39