IRC log of dawg on 2007-10-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:23:59 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:23:59 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc
14:24:02 [LeeF]
zakim, this will be dawg
14:24:02 [Zakim]
ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:24:07 [LeeF]
Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly
14:24:11 [ericP]
they sound like some of the NG features that were very hard to impl
14:24:11 [LeeF]
Chair: LeeF
14:24:15 [LeeF]
Scribe: LeeF
14:24:24 [ericP]
(very hard for a quads store)
14:24:37 [LeeF]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0000.html
14:24:51 [LeeF]
OK, we do it in Anzo+Glitter so I can probably get a green box there even if it's not one already
14:25:18 [LeeF]
LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0000.html
14:25:26 [LeeF]
agenda + convene
14:25:30 [LeeF]
agenda + actions
14:25:34 [LeeF]
agenda + algebra bugs
14:25:41 [LeeF]
agenda + disposition of comments
14:25:48 [ericP]
can you update the Makefile with all the URLs you know about?
14:25:48 [LeeF]
agenda + query language implementation report
14:26:01 [LeeF]
agenda + protocol implementation report
14:26:11 [LeeF]
agenda + xml results format implementation report
14:26:17 [LeeF]
agenda + testimonials
14:26:42 [ericP]
oh right, my mailer may be better apt at replying to some reports to store them as attachements
14:27:07 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #dawg
14:27:40 [ericP]
iv_an_ru, if you can give me a URL for some virtuoso earl in the next couple mins, i can run it during the call
14:27:58 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started
14:28:05 [Zakim]
+LeeF
14:28:59 [Zakim]
+??P15
14:29:01 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P is me
14:29:01 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:31:22 [LeeF]
agenda?
14:31:47 [Zakim]
+EricP
14:31:49 [Zakim]
+Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:32:28 [LeeF]
Scribe: chimezie
14:32:48 [LeeF]
agenda + new optional-filter test
14:34:17 [LeeF]
zakim, take up first agendum
14:34:17 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take up first agendum', LeeF
14:34:28 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
14:34:28 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "convene" taken up [from LeeF]
14:34:43 [Zakim]
+??P22
14:34:55 [iv_an_ru]
Zakim, ??p22 is me
14:34:55 [Zakim]
+iv_an_ru; got it
14:35:09 [chimezie]
LeeF: meeting tommorow for disposition of comments
14:35:17 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/att-0156/18-dawg-minutes.html minutes from Sep 18
14:35:27 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/att-0175/25-dawg-minutes.html
14:35:33 [LeeF]
minutes from sep 25
14:36:28 [LeeF]
approve both sets of minutes
14:37:19 [chimezie]
LeeF: if you can't make next weeks call, make your feelings known about transition to PR
14:37:29 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
14:37:29 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
14:37:31 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:37:31 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
14:37:32 [Zakim]
2. actions [from LeeF]
14:37:33 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "actions" taken up [from LeeF]
14:37:47 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness
14:37:50 [LeeF]
action -1
14:37:56 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [DONE]
14:38:09 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format [DONE]
14:38:29 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES]
14:38:40 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES]
14:39:22 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
14:39:22 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
14:39:23 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:39:24 [Zakim]
3. algebra bugs [from LeeF]
14:39:26 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
14:39:26 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "algebra bugs" taken up [from LeeF]
14:40:25 [chimezie]
LeeF: tests were correct, details in the specification were wrong
14:40:33 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0179.html link to both bugs with details
14:40:45 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html SPARQL Algebra Translation Bug
14:41:46 [chimezie]
AndyS: there should only be 1 way to get filters into OPTIONALs
14:42:01 [chimezie]
AndyS: there are tests that back this behavior up
14:43:45 [chimezie]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html Chime's reading of Andy's overview
14:44:18 [chimezie]
LeeF: we can make the case that implementors were not mislead and don't need to go back to LC
14:44:39 [LeeF]
proposed new text is:
14:44:39 [LeeF]
[[
14:44:39 [LeeF]
If F is not empty:
14:44:39 [LeeF]
G := Filter(F, G)
14:44:39 [LeeF]
]]
14:45:11 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: To fix the bug in attaching filters to patterns as per AndyS's suggestion in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html
14:45:28 [LeeF]
ericP seconds
14:45:34 [LeeF]
resolved
14:46:03 [LeeF]
ACTION: AndyS to put replacement text for filter attachment into rq25
14:46:31 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to examine 7 tests affected by change in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html in view of implementors' experiences
14:46:58 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0178.html AndyS on simplifying {{ ... }}
14:48:22 [chimezie]
AndyS: if you apply the simplification early, you end up with a different Algebra
14:49:16 [chimezie]
ericP: ask implementors to run a distinguishing query
14:51:18 [chimezie]
AndyS: it is not exactly clear in the process document if we can escape another LC cycle
14:55:03 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to mail out a complete test case to determine implementation behavior in the OPTIONAL+FILTER+{{...}} case
14:55:18 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
14:55:18 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
14:55:19 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:55:21 [Zakim]
4. disposition of comments [from LeeF]
14:55:22 [LeeF]
zakim, take up agendum 9
14:55:22 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "new optional-filter test" taken up [from LeeF]
14:56:02 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html contains Chimezie's proposted new test
14:56:39 [chimezie]
I wrote that while trying to figure out why: LeftJoin(Ω1, Ω2, expr) = Filter(expr, Join(Ω1, Ω2)) set-union Diff(Ω1, Ω2, expr)
14:56:43 [chimezie]
isnt' equivalent to :
14:56:51 [chimezie]
LeftJoin(Ω1, Ω2, expr) = Filter(expr, Join(Ω1, Ω2)) set-union Ω1
14:58:20 [AndyS]
ARQ passes the test
14:58:42 [chimezie]
ericP: does top-down / bottom-up evaluation effect this?
15:00:29 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Approve the test in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html and ask for implementation results for it
15:00:47 [chimezie]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data-r2/optional-filter/manifest#dawg-optional-filter-004 new tests
15:03:28 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to solicit implementors' desired behavior for {{ ... }} case
15:03:42 [chimezie]
AndyS: even if we don't approve the tests, we should solicit input about what implementations *want* to do (or what they do currently)
15:04:08 [LeeF]
resolved
15:04:19 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to mark test in 0003 as approved, update test suite, notify implementors
15:04:35 [LeeF]
ericP abstains
15:04:49 [LeeF]
s/abstains/mis-runs his software
15:05:03 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
15:05:03 [Zakim]
agendum 9 closed
15:05:04 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:05:05 [Zakim]
4. disposition of comments [from LeeF]
15:05:12 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
15:05:12 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "disposition of comments" taken up [from LeeF]
15:06:10 [ericP]
actually, i do pass it -- just didn't match the name in the manifest
15:06:24 [chimezie]
LeeF: main challenge is the protocol document
15:06:37 [chimezie]
LeeF: I'll be cleaning up outstanding comments
15:07:14 [chimezie]
LeeF: if you are swapped in on the protocol, please contribute to thread if neccessary
15:07:53 [LeeF]
cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4811035 invalid
15:07:53 [LeeF]
cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4835227 invalid
15:07:53 [LeeF]
cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4860295 invalid
15:07:53 [LeeF]
cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5247279 invalid
15:07:53 [LeeF]
cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5591008 invalid
15:07:54 [LeeF]
cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5683713 invalid
15:08:20 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
15:08:20 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
15:08:21 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:08:22 [Zakim]
5. query language implementation report [from LeeF]
15:08:38 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
15:08:38 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "query language implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]
15:09:00 [LeeF]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/implementations query language implementation report
15:09:34 [chimezie]
ericP: a failure for a test in a facet is a failure for the whole feature set
15:11:33 [chimezie]
ericP: the data we have may be sufficient for transition
15:12:31 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to implement the conservative algorithm (fail a test -> fail the feature) in the implementation report
15:12:44 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to weed out basic facets from complex tests
15:13:43 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Sep/0008.html email on pyrrho db results
15:14:10 [chimezie]
LeeF: there is no EARL output
15:15:19 [chimezie]
ericP: we should not include implementations which do a manual check instead of automated generation of EARL
15:18:18 [chimezie]
AndyS: we *should* be doing automated test reporting. perhaps we don't put it in the implementation report matrix
15:18:49 [chimezie]
I agree with the caution about manually generated reports (given the nature of BNodes, etc..)
15:19:53 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to solicit mechanically generated test results from pyrhho db
15:23:12 [chimezie]
ericP: an approach for a first impl report could be to only show those for which we are 'green across the board'
15:24:58 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to adapt impl report to include syntax tests
15:25:02 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
15:25:03 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
15:25:05 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:25:07 [Zakim]
6. protocol implementation report [from LeeF]
15:25:25 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
15:25:25 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "protocol implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]
15:26:35 [Zakim]
-Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:27:32 [chimezie]
rssagent, make logs world-visible
15:27:39 [LeeF]
EliasT close to having HTTP protocol testing running
15:27:53 [LeeF]
LeeF working on creating manually generated implementation report for protocol
15:28:00 [LeeF]
...will work with AndyS to fit in SOAP testing in that
15:28:10 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
15:28:10 [Zakim]
agendum 6 closed
15:28:11 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:28:12 [Zakim]
7. xml results format implementation report [from LeeF]
15:28:12 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
15:28:12 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "xml results format implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]
15:29:26 [LeeF]
...results from testing protocl should demonstrate 2 producers and consumers of SPARQL XML
15:29:36 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
15:29:36 [Zakim]
agendum 7 closed
15:29:37 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:29:38 [Zakim]
8. testimonials [from LeeF]
15:30:33 [LeeF]
-> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/sws-testimonial example testimonials
15:32:09 [LeeF]
+ solicit testimonials from WG members
15:32:17 [LeeF]
+ ask WG members to solicit testimonials from other W3C members
15:32:32 [ericP]
Q: testimonials from non-W3C people?
15:32:39 [LeeF]
+ ask SWEO to help provide testimonials
15:32:55 [LeeF]
+ start soon to help people get testimonials cleared with their organizations
15:33:54 [iv_an_ru]
small spam might help :)
15:34:49 [LeeF]
adjourned
15:34:56 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:34:57 [LeeF]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:34:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-minutes.html LeeF
15:35:06 [LeeF]
rrsagent, make logs world-access
15:35:08 [Zakim]
-iv_an_ru
15:35:17 [Zakim]
-LeeF
15:35:21 [Zakim]
-AndyS
15:35:22 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
15:35:24 [Zakim]
Attendees were LeeF, AndyS, EricP, Chimezie_Ogbuji, iv_an_ru
15:35:52 [AndyS]
AndyS has left #dawg
15:39:38 [LeeF]
rrsagent, make logs world-access
15:39:43 [LeeF]
i mean it for real this time, RRSAgent
15:40:01 [LeeF]
thanks, RRSAgent
15:40:02 [LeeF]
you're the best
16:02:28 [LeeF]
ericP - you ended up not abstaining since you passed the test, right?
16:08:08 [ericP]
LeeF, that's right
16:54:23 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, please leave
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-actions.rdf :
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [DONE] [2]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-37-56
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format [DONE] [3]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-09
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES] [4]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-29
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES] [5]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-40
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to put replacement text for filter attachment into rq25 [6]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-46-03
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to examine 7 tests affected by change in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html in view of implementors' experiences [7]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-46-31
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to mail out a complete test case to determine implementation behavior in the OPTIONAL+FILTER+{{...}} case [8]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-55-03
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to solicit implementors' desired behavior for {{ ... }} case [9]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-03-28
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to mark test in 0003 as approved, update test suite, notify implementors [10]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-04-19
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to implement the conservative algorithm (fail a test -> fail the feature) in the implementation report [11]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-12-31
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to weed out basic facets from complex tests [12]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-12-44
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to solicit mechanically generated test results from pyrhho db [13]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-19-53
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to adapt impl report to include syntax tests [14]
16:54:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-24-58
16:54:26 [LeeF]
zakim, please leave
16:54:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg