IRC log of dawg on 2007-10-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:23:59 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:23:59 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc

14:24:02 [LeeF]

zakim, this will be dawg

14:24:02 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

14:24:07 [LeeF]

Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly

14:24:11 [ericP]

they sound like some of the NG features that were very hard to impl

14:24:11 [LeeF]

Chair: LeeF

14:24:15 [LeeF]

Scribe: LeeF

14:24:24 [ericP]

(very hard for a quads store)

14:24:37 [LeeF]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0000.html

14:24:51 [LeeF]

OK, we do it in Anzo+Glitter so I can probably get a green box there even if it's not one already

14:25:18 [LeeF]

LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0000.html

14:25:26 [LeeF]

agenda + convene

14:25:30 [LeeF]

agenda + actions

14:25:34 [LeeF]

agenda + algebra bugs

14:25:41 [LeeF]

agenda + disposition of comments

14:25:48 [ericP]

can you update the Makefile with all the URLs you know about?

14:25:48 [LeeF]

agenda + query language implementation report

14:26:01 [LeeF]

agenda + protocol implementation report

14:26:11 [LeeF]

agenda + xml results format implementation report

14:26:17 [LeeF]

agenda + testimonials

14:26:42 [ericP]

oh right, my mailer may be better apt at replying to some reports to store them as attachements

14:27:07 [chimezie]

chimezie has joined #dawg

14:27:40 [ericP]

iv_an_ru, if you can give me a URL for some virtuoso earl in the next couple mins, i can run it during the call

14:27:58 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started

14:28:05 [Zakim]

+LeeF

14:28:59 [Zakim]

+??P15

14:29:01 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P is me

14:29:01 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:31:22 [LeeF]

agenda?

14:31:47 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:31:49 [Zakim]

+Chimezie_Ogbuji

14:32:28 [LeeF]

Scribe: chimezie

14:32:48 [LeeF]

agenda + new optional-filter test

14:34:17 [LeeF]

zakim, take up first agendum

14:34:17 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'take up first agendum', LeeF

14:34:28 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

14:34:28 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "convene" taken up [from LeeF]

14:34:43 [Zakim]

+??P22

14:34:55 [iv_an_ru]

Zakim, ??p22 is me

14:34:55 [Zakim]

+iv_an_ru; got it

14:35:09 [chimezie]

LeeF: meeting tommorow for disposition of comments

14:35:17 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/att-0156/18-dawg-minutes.html minutes from Sep 18

14:35:27 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/att-0175/25-dawg-minutes.html

14:35:33 [LeeF]

minutes from sep 25

14:36:28 [LeeF]

approve both sets of minutes

14:37:19 [chimezie]

LeeF: if you can't make next weeks call, make your feelings known about transition to PR

14:37:29 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

14:37:29 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

14:37:31 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:37:31 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

14:37:32 [Zakim]

2. actions [from LeeF]

14:37:33 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "actions" taken up [from LeeF]

14:37:47 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness

14:37:50 [LeeF]

action -1

14:37:56 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [DONE]

14:38:09 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format [DONE]

14:38:29 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES]

14:38:40 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES]

14:39:22 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

14:39:22 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

14:39:23 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:39:24 [Zakim]

3. algebra bugs [from LeeF]

14:39:26 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

14:39:26 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "algebra bugs" taken up [from LeeF]

14:40:25 [chimezie]

LeeF: tests were correct, details in the specification were wrong

14:40:33 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0179.html link to both bugs with details

14:40:45 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html SPARQL Algebra Translation Bug

14:41:46 [chimezie]

AndyS: there should only be 1 way to get filters into OPTIONALs

14:42:01 [chimezie]

AndyS: there are tests that back this behavior up

14:43:45 [chimezie]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html Chime's reading of Andy's overview

14:44:18 [chimezie]

LeeF: we can make the case that implementors were not mislead and don't need to go back to LC

14:44:39 [LeeF]

proposed new text is:

14:44:39 [LeeF]

[[

14:44:39 [LeeF]

If F is not empty:

14:44:39 [LeeF]

G := Filter(F, G)

14:44:39 [LeeF]

]]

14:45:11 [LeeF]

PROPOSED: To fix the bug in attaching filters to patterns as per AndyS's suggestion in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html

14:45:28 [LeeF]

ericP seconds

14:45:34 [LeeF]

resolved

14:46:03 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS to put replacement text for filter attachment into rq25

14:46:31 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to examine 7 tests affected by change in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html in view of implementors' experiences

14:46:58 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0178.html AndyS on simplifying {{ ... }}

14:48:22 [chimezie]

AndyS: if you apply the simplification early, you end up with a different Algebra

14:49:16 [chimezie]

ericP: ask implementors to run a distinguishing query

14:51:18 [chimezie]

AndyS: it is not exactly clear in the process document if we can escape another LC cycle

14:55:03 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to mail out a complete test case to determine implementation behavior in the OPTIONAL+FILTER+{{...}} case

14:55:18 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

14:55:18 [Zakim]

agendum 3 closed

14:55:19 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:55:21 [Zakim]

4. disposition of comments [from LeeF]

14:55:22 [LeeF]

zakim, take up agendum 9

14:55:22 [Zakim]

agendum 9. "new optional-filter test" taken up [from LeeF]

14:56:02 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html contains Chimezie's proposted new test

14:56:39 [chimezie]

I wrote that while trying to figure out why: LeftJoin(Ω1, Ω2, expr) = Filter(expr, Join(Ω1, Ω2)) set-union Diff(Ω1, Ω2, expr)

14:56:43 [chimezie]

isnt' equivalent to :

14:56:51 [chimezie]

LeftJoin(Ω1, Ω2, expr) = Filter(expr, Join(Ω1, Ω2)) set-union Ω1

14:58:20 [AndyS]

ARQ passes the test

14:58:42 [chimezie]

ericP: does top-down / bottom-up evaluation effect this?

15:00:29 [LeeF]

PROPOSED: Approve the test in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html and ask for implementation results for it

15:00:47 [chimezie]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data-r2/optional-filter/manifest#dawg-optional-filter-004 new tests

15:03:28 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to solicit implementors' desired behavior for {{ ... }} case

15:03:42 [chimezie]

AndyS: even if we don't approve the tests, we should solicit input about what implementations *want* to do (or what they do currently)

15:04:08 [LeeF]

resolved

15:04:19 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to mark test in 0003 as approved, update test suite, notify implementors

15:04:35 [LeeF]

ericP abstains

15:04:49 [LeeF]

s/abstains/mis-runs his software

15:05:03 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

15:05:03 [Zakim]

agendum 9 closed

15:05:04 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:05:05 [Zakim]

4. disposition of comments [from LeeF]

15:05:12 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

15:05:12 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "disposition of comments" taken up [from LeeF]

15:06:10 [ericP]

actually, i do pass it -- just didn't match the name in the manifest

15:06:24 [chimezie]

LeeF: main challenge is the protocol document

15:06:37 [chimezie]

LeeF: I'll be cleaning up outstanding comments

15:07:14 [chimezie]

LeeF: if you are swapped in on the protocol, please contribute to thread if neccessary

15:07:53 [LeeF]

cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4811035 invalid

15:07:53 [LeeF]

cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4835227 invalid

15:07:53 [LeeF]

cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4860295 invalid

15:07:53 [LeeF]

cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5247279 invalid

15:07:53 [LeeF]

cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5591008 invalid

15:07:54 [LeeF]

cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5683713 invalid

15:08:20 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

15:08:20 [Zakim]

agendum 4 closed

15:08:21 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:08:22 [Zakim]

5. query language implementation report [from LeeF]

15:08:38 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

15:08:38 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "query language implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]

15:09:00 [LeeF]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/implementations query language implementation report

15:09:34 [chimezie]

ericP: a failure for a test in a facet is a failure for the whole feature set

15:11:33 [chimezie]

ericP: the data we have may be sufficient for transition

15:12:31 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to implement the conservative algorithm (fail a test -> fail the feature) in the implementation report

15:12:44 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to weed out basic facets from complex tests

15:13:43 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Sep/0008.html email on pyrrho db results

15:14:10 [chimezie]

LeeF: there is no EARL output

15:15:19 [chimezie]

ericP: we should not include implementations which do a manual check instead of automated generation of EARL

15:18:18 [chimezie]

AndyS: we *should* be doing automated test reporting. perhaps we don't put it in the implementation report matrix

15:18:49 [chimezie]

I agree with the caution about manually generated reports (given the nature of BNodes, etc..)

15:19:53 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to solicit mechanically generated test results from pyrhho db

15:23:12 [chimezie]

ericP: an approach for a first impl report could be to only show those for which we are 'green across the board'

15:24:58 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to adapt impl report to include syntax tests

15:25:02 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

15:25:03 [Zakim]

agendum 5 closed

15:25:05 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:25:07 [Zakim]

6. protocol implementation report [from LeeF]

15:25:25 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

15:25:25 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "protocol implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]

15:26:35 [Zakim]

-Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:27:32 [chimezie]

rssagent, make logs world-visible

15:27:39 [LeeF]

EliasT close to having HTTP protocol testing running

15:27:53 [LeeF]

LeeF working on creating manually generated implementation report for protocol

15:28:00 [LeeF]

...will work with AndyS to fit in SOAP testing in that

15:28:10 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

15:28:10 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

15:28:11 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:28:12 [Zakim]

7. xml results format implementation report [from LeeF]

15:28:12 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

15:28:12 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "xml results format implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]

15:29:26 [LeeF]

...results from testing protocl should demonstrate 2 producers and consumers of SPARQL XML

15:29:36 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

15:29:36 [Zakim]

agendum 7 closed

15:29:37 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

15:29:38 [Zakim]

8. testimonials [from LeeF]

15:30:33 [LeeF]

-> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/sws-testimonial example testimonials

15:32:09 [LeeF]

+ solicit testimonials from WG members

15:32:17 [LeeF]

+ ask WG members to solicit testimonials from other W3C members

15:32:32 [ericP]

Q: testimonials from non-W3C people?

15:32:39 [LeeF]

+ ask SWEO to help provide testimonials

15:32:55 [LeeF]

+ start soon to help people get testimonials cleared with their organizations

15:33:54 [iv_an_ru]

small spam might help :)

15:34:49 [LeeF]

adjourned

15:34:56 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:34:57 [LeeF]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

15:34:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-minutes.html LeeF

15:35:06 [LeeF]

rrsagent, make logs world-access

15:35:08 [Zakim]

-iv_an_ru

15:35:17 [Zakim]

-LeeF

15:35:21 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:35:22 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

15:35:24 [Zakim]

Attendees were LeeF, AndyS, EricP, Chimezie_Ogbuji, iv_an_ru

15:35:52 [AndyS]

AndyS has left #dawg

15:39:38 [LeeF]

rrsagent, make logs world-access

15:39:43 [LeeF]

i mean it for real this time, RRSAgent

15:40:01 [LeeF]

thanks, RRSAgent

15:40:02 [LeeF]

you're the best

16:02:28 [LeeF]

ericP - you ended up not abstaining since you passed the test, right?

16:08:08 [ericP]

LeeF, that's right

16:54:23 [LeeF]

RRSAgent, please leave

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-actions.rdf :

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [DONE] [2]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-37-56

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format [DONE] [3]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-09

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES] [4]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-29

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES] [5]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-40

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to put replacement text for filter attachment into rq25 [6]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-46-03

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to examine 7 tests affected by change in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html in view of implementors' experiences [7]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-46-31

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to mail out a complete test case to determine implementation behavior in the OPTIONAL+FILTER+{{...}} case [8]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-55-03

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to solicit implementors' desired behavior for {{ ... }} case [9]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-03-28

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to mark test in 0003 as approved, update test suite, notify implementors [10]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-04-19

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to implement the conservative algorithm (fail a test -> fail the feature) in the implementation report [11]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-12-31

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to weed out basic facets from complex tests [12]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-12-44

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to solicit mechanically generated test results from pyrhho db [13]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-19-53

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to adapt impl report to include syntax tests [14]

16:54:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-24-58

16:54:26 [LeeF]

zakim, please leave

16:54:26 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg