14:23:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:23:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc
14:24:02 <LeeF> zakim, this will be dawg
14:24:02 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:24:07 <LeeF> Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly
14:24:11 <ericP> they sound like some of the NG features that were very hard to impl
14:24:11 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:24:15 <LeeF> Scribe: LeeF
14:24:24 <ericP> (very hard for a quads store)
14:24:37 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0000.html
14:24:51 <LeeF> OK, we do it in Anzo+Glitter so I can probably get a green box there even if it's not one already
14:25:18 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0000.html
14:25:26 <LeeF> agenda + convene
14:25:30 <LeeF> agenda + actions
14:25:34 <LeeF> agenda + algebra bugs
14:25:41 <LeeF> agenda + disposition of comments
14:25:48 <ericP> can you update the Makefile with all the URLs you know about?
14:25:48 <LeeF> agenda + query language implementation report
14:26:01 <LeeF> agenda + protocol implementation report
14:26:11 <LeeF> agenda + xml results format implementation report
14:26:17 <LeeF> agenda + testimonials
14:26:42 <ericP> oh right, my mailer may be better apt at replying to some reports to store them as attachements
14:27:07 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #dawg
14:27:40 <ericP> iv_an_ru, if you can give me a URL for some virtuoso earl in the next couple mins, i can run it during the call
14:27:58 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started
14:28:05 <Zakim> +LeeF
14:28:59 <Zakim> +??P15
14:29:01 <AndyS> zakim, ??P is me
14:29:01 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:31:22 <LeeF> agenda?
14:31:47 <Zakim> +EricP
14:31:49 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:32:28 <LeeF> Scribe: chimezie
14:32:48 <LeeF> agenda + new optional-filter test
14:34:17 <LeeF> zakim, take up first agendum
14:34:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first agendum', LeeF
14:34:28 <LeeF> zakim, next agendum
14:34:28 <Zakim> agendum 1. "convene" taken up [from LeeF]
14:34:43 <Zakim> +??P22
14:34:55 <iv_an_ru> Zakim, ??p22 is me
14:34:55 <Zakim> +iv_an_ru; got it
14:35:09 <chimezie> LeeF: meeting tommorow for disposition of comments
14:35:17 <LeeF> ->  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/att-0156/18-dawg-minutes.html minutes from Sep 18
14:35:27 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/att-0175/25-dawg-minutes.html
14:35:33 <LeeF>  minutes from sep 25
14:36:28 <LeeF> approve both sets of minutes
14:37:19 <chimezie> LeeF: if you can't make next weeks call, make your feelings known about transition to PR
14:37:29 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
14:37:29 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:37:31 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:37:31 <LeeF> zakim, next agendum
14:37:32 <Zakim> 2. actions [from LeeF]
14:37:33 <Zakim> agendum 2. "actions" taken up [from LeeF]
14:37:47 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness
14:37:50 <LeeF> action -1
14:37:56 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [DONE]
14:38:09 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format [DONE]
14:38:29 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES]
14:38:40 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES]
14:39:22 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum 
14:39:22 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
14:39:23 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:39:24 <Zakim> 3. algebra bugs [from LeeF]
14:39:26 <LeeF> zakim, next agendum
14:39:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "algebra bugs" taken up [from LeeF]
14:40:25 <chimezie> LeeF: tests were correct, details in the specification were wrong
14:40:33 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0179.html link to both bugs with details
14:40:45 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html SPARQL Algebra Translation Bug
14:41:46 <chimezie> AndyS: there should only be 1 way to get filters into OPTIONALs
14:42:01 <chimezie> AndyS: there are tests that back this behavior up
14:43:45 <chimezie> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html Chime's reading of Andy's overview
14:44:18 <chimezie> LeeF: we can make the case that implementors were not mislead and don't need to go back to LC
14:44:39 <LeeF> proposed new text is:
14:44:39 <LeeF> [[
14:44:39 <LeeF> If F is not empty:
14:44:39 <LeeF>    G := Filter(F, G)
14:44:39 <LeeF> ]]
14:45:11 <LeeF> PROPOSED: To fix the bug in attaching filters to patterns as per AndyS's suggestion in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html
14:45:28 <LeeF> ericP seconds
14:45:34 <LeeF> resolved
14:46:03 <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS to put replacement text for filter attachment into rq25
14:46:31 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to examine 7 tests affected by change in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html in view of implementors' experiences
14:46:58 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0178.html AndyS on simplifying {{ ... }}
14:48:22 <chimezie> AndyS: if you apply the simplification early, you end up with a different Algebra
14:49:16 <chimezie> ericP: ask implementors to run a distinguishing query
14:51:18 <chimezie> AndyS: it is not exactly clear in the process document if we can escape another LC cycle
14:55:03 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to mail out a complete test case to determine implementation behavior in the OPTIONAL+FILTER+{{...}} case
14:55:18 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
14:55:18 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
14:55:19 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:55:21 <Zakim> 4. disposition of comments [from LeeF]
14:55:22 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:55:22 <Zakim> agendum 9. "new optional-filter test" taken up [from LeeF]
14:56:02 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html contains Chimezie's proposted new test
14:56:39 <chimezie> I wrote that while trying to figure out why: LeftJoin(Ω1, Ω2, expr) = Filter(expr, Join(Ω1, Ω2)) set-union Diff(Ω1, Ω2, expr)
14:56:43 <chimezie> isnt' equivalent to :
14:56:51 <chimezie> LeftJoin(Ω1, Ω2, expr) = Filter(expr, Join(Ω1, Ω2)) set-union Ω1
14:58:20 <AndyS> ARQ passes the test
14:58:42 <chimezie> ericP: does top-down / bottom-up evaluation effect this?
15:00:29 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve the test in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007OctDec/0003.html and ask for implementation results for it
15:00:47 <chimezie> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data-r2/optional-filter/manifest#dawg-optional-filter-004 new tests
15:03:28 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to solicit implementors' desired behavior for {{ ... }} case
15:03:42 <chimezie> AndyS: even if we don't approve the tests, we should solicit input about what implementations *want* to do (or what they do currently)
15:04:08 <LeeF> resolved
15:04:19 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to mark test in 0003 as approved, update test suite, notify implementors
15:04:35 <LeeF> ericP abstains
15:04:49 <LeeF> s/abstains/mis-runs his software
15:05:03 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:05:03 <Zakim> agendum 9 closed
15:05:04 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:05:05 <Zakim> 4. disposition of comments [from LeeF]
15:05:12 <LeeF> zakim, next agendum
15:05:12 <Zakim> agendum 4. "disposition of comments" taken up [from LeeF]
15:06:10 <ericP> actually, i do pass it -- just didn't match the name in the manifest
15:06:24 <chimezie> LeeF: main challenge is the protocol document
15:06:37 <chimezie> LeeF: I'll be cleaning up outstanding comments
15:07:14 <chimezie> LeeF: if you are swapped in on the protocol, please contribute to thread if neccessary
15:07:53 <LeeF> cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4811035 invalid
15:07:53 <LeeF> cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4835227 invalid
15:07:53 <LeeF> cvs.bin history: warning: history line 4860295 invalid
15:07:53 <LeeF> cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5247279 invalid
15:07:53 <LeeF> cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5591008 invalid
15:07:54 <LeeF> cvs.bin history: warning: history line 5683713 invalid
15:08:20 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:08:20 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
15:08:21 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:08:22 <Zakim> 5. query language implementation report [from LeeF]
15:08:38 <LeeF> zakim, next agendum
15:08:38 <Zakim> agendum 5. "query language implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]
15:09:00 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/implementations query language implementation report
15:09:34 <chimezie> ericP: a failure for a test in a facet is a failure for the whole feature set
15:11:33 <chimezie> ericP: the data we have may be sufficient for transition
15:12:31 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to implement the conservative algorithm (fail a test -> fail the feature) in the implementation report
15:12:44 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to weed out basic facets from complex tests
15:13:43 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Sep/0008.html email on pyrrho db results
15:14:10 <chimezie> LeeF: there is no EARL output
15:15:19 <chimezie> ericP: we should not include implementations which do a manual check instead of automated generation of EARL
15:18:18 <chimezie> AndyS: we *should* be doing automated test reporting.  perhaps we don't put it in the implementation report matrix
15:18:49 <chimezie> I agree with the caution about manually generated reports (given the nature of BNodes, etc..)
15:19:53 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to solicit mechanically generated test results from pyrhho db
15:23:12 <chimezie> ericP: an approach for a first impl report could be to only show those for which we are 'green across the board'
15:24:58 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to adapt impl report to include syntax tests
15:25:02 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:25:03 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
15:25:05 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:25:07 <Zakim> 6. protocol implementation report [from LeeF]
15:25:25 <LeeF> zakim, next agendum
15:25:25 <Zakim> agendum 6. "protocol implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]
15:26:35 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:27:32 <chimezie> rssagent, make logs world-visible
15:27:39 <LeeF> EliasT close to having HTTP protocol testing running
15:27:53 <LeeF> LeeF working on creating manually generated implementation report for protocol
15:28:00 <LeeF> ...will work with AndyS to fit in SOAP testing in that
15:28:10 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:28:10 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
15:28:11 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:28:12 <Zakim> 7. xml results format implementation report [from LeeF]
15:28:12 <LeeF> zakim, next agendum
15:28:12 <Zakim> agendum 7. "xml results format implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]
15:29:26 <LeeF> ...results from testing protocl should demonstrate 2 producers and consumers of SPARQL XML
15:29:36 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:29:36 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
15:29:37 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:29:38 <Zakim> 8. testimonials [from LeeF]
15:30:33 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/sws-testimonial example testimonials
15:32:09 <LeeF> + solicit testimonials from WG members
15:32:17 <LeeF> + ask WG members to solicit testimonials from other W3C members
15:32:32 <ericP> Q: testimonials from non-W3C people?
15:32:39 <LeeF> + ask SWEO to help provide testimonials
15:32:55 <LeeF> + start soon to help people get testimonials cleared with their organizations
15:33:54 <iv_an_ru> small spam might help :)
15:34:49 <LeeF> adjourned
15:34:56 <Zakim> -EricP
15:34:57 <LeeF> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:34:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-minutes.html LeeF
15:35:06 <LeeF> rrsagent, make logs world-access
15:35:08 <Zakim> -iv_an_ru
15:35:17 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:35:21 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:35:22 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
15:35:24 <Zakim> Attendees were LeeF, AndyS, EricP, Chimezie_Ogbuji, iv_an_ru
15:35:52 <AndyS> AndyS has left #dawg
15:39:38 <LeeF> rrsagent, make logs world-access
15:39:43 <LeeF> i mean it for real this time, RRSAgent
15:40:01 <LeeF> thanks, RRSAgent
15:40:02 <LeeF> you're the best
16:02:28 <LeeF> ericP - you ended up not abstaining since you passed the test, right?
16:08:08 <ericP> LeeF, that's right
16:54:23 <LeeF> RRSAgent, please leave
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-actions.rdf :
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [DONE] [2]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-37-56
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format [DONE] [3]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-09
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES] [4]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-29
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES] [5]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-40
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to put replacement text for filter attachment into rq25 [6]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-46-03
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to examine 7 tests affected by change in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0177.html in view of implementors' experiences [7]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-46-31
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to mail out a complete test case to determine implementation behavior in the OPTIONAL+FILTER+{{...}} case [8]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T14-55-03
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to solicit implementors' desired behavior for {{ ... }} case [9]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-03-28
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to mark test in 0003 as approved, update test suite, notify implementors [10]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-04-19
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to implement the conservative algorithm (fail a test -> fail the feature) in the implementation report [11]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-12-31
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to weed out basic facets from complex tests [12]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-12-44
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to solicit mechanically generated test results from pyrhho db [13]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-19-53
16:54:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to adapt impl report to include syntax tests [14]
16:54:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-dawg-irc#T15-24-58
16:54:26 <LeeF> zakim, please leave
16:54:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg