IRC log of rdfa on 2007-09-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:48:46 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
14:48:57 [Steven]
rrsagent, make log public
14:49:06 [Steven]
zakim, this will be rdfa
14:49:06 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
14:56:33 [myakura]
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14:58:55 [ShaneM]
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14:59:09 [RalphS]
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14:59:44 [RalphS]
Meeting: RDFa Task Force
15:00:23 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:00:24 [RalphS]
-> previous 2007-09-20
15:00:30 [Zakim]
15:00:44 [RalphS]
15:02:00 [msporny]
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15:02:31 [Zakim]
15:03:09 [Zakim]
15:03:34 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p15 is Manu
15:03:34 [Zakim]
+Manu; got it
15:04:01 [benadida]
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15:04:23 [Zakim]
15:04:31 [benadida]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:04:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ShaneM, Manu, Ralph, benadida
15:06:28 [markbirbeck]
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15:06:37 [markbirbeck]
zakim, code?
15:06:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:06:52 [RalphS]
Regrets: Michael
15:06:55 [RalphS]
Chair: Ben
15:08:02 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
15:08:02 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:08:04 [Zakim]
15:08:34 [Zakim]
15:08:40 [markbirbeck]
zakim, i am ?
15:08:40 [Zakim]
+markbirbeck; got it
15:09:49 [benadida]
zakim, pick a victim
15:09:49 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Steven
15:10:02 [Steven]
Scribe: Steven
15:10:29 [Steven]
Topic: Action Items
15:10:29 [Steven]
15:11:22 [Steven]
ACTION: Manu draft some partitioning language that is technology-neutral [recorded in]
15:11:29 [Steven]
-- done
15:11:41 [Steven]
Manu: Is it worked in?
15:11:44 [Steven]
Mark: Yes, sort of
15:12:12 [Steven]
ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in]
15:12:16 [Steven]
-- pending
15:12:28 [Steven]
ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in]
15:12:38 [Steven]
-- pending
15:12:59 [Steven]
ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in]
15:13:02 [Steven]
15:13:11 [Steven]
ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in]
15:13:13 [Steven]
-- pending
15:13:22 [Steven]
ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in]
15:13:24 [Steven]
-- pending
15:13:53 [Steven]
Ben: I'm working through some issues this week, but we're making progress
15:14:00 [Steven]
Topic: FtF Planning
15:14:17 [Steven]
15:14:51 [Steven]
ACTION: Ben to remind the WG reviewers about FtF
15:15:40 [Steven]
s/FtF/review for FtF/
15:15:51 [Steven]
15:16:11 [Steven]
Ben: Mark will lead the discussion, it will be Monday morning
15:16:15 [benadida]
agenda for f2f:
15:16:46 [Steven]
Ben: I hope you will demo some stuff
15:17:40 [msporny]
15:18:01 [Steven]
Ben: Shane, you are joining by phone?
15:18:09 [Steven]
Shane: My plan, but I need to see a schedule
15:18:15 [Steven]
Ben: Ralph, going?
15:18:23 [Steven]
Ralph: Not sure yet
15:18:35 [Steven]
Manu: Mark, beware of live demos
15:19:20 [Steven]
Steven: Yes, I had a similar problem yesterday at a talk
15:19:57 [Steven]
Ben: Please demo my clipboard if you have time
15:19:59 [msporny]
15:23:17 [msporny]
15:23:50 [Steven]
15:24:29 [Steven]
[Discussion of current uses of RDFa]
15:24:46 [msporny]
15:26:39 [Steven]
Topic: Status of Implementations
15:27:25 [RalphS]
15:27:45 [Steven]
Ben: We need this information to show that there is progress
15:30:15 [Steven]
Mark: My implementation is coming on nicely
15:30:32 [Steven]
... the RDFa part needs to be modularised still
15:30:42 [Steven]
... so that people could pick it up separately
15:30:49 [msporny]
15:30:50 [Steven]
Ben: Is it a part of Sidewinder?
15:31:00 [Steven]
Mark: No, it is 3 or 4 javascript files
15:31:04 [Steven]
... in libXH
15:31:09 [Steven]
... as I call it
15:31:18 [Steven]
Ben: Can it manage the test cases?
15:31:20 [Steven]
Mark: Yep
15:31:34 [Steven]
Ben: We have Ivan's Distiller
15:32:23 [Steven]
... Elias's Pythion implementation, not up to date
15:32:29 [Steven]
... there is Operator
15:32:34 [Steven]
Manu: Not up to date yet
15:33:14 [Steven]
s/Distiller/Distiller, up to date/
15:33:39 [Steven]
Manu: Operator will be in Firefox 3, and then in SOngbird
15:33:49 [Steven]
... so RDFGa will be just there
15:33:53 [Steven]
15:34:04 [Steven]
15:34:28 [Steven]
Ben: My Javascript implementation is not yet up to date
15:34:41 [Steven]
... the bookmarklet
15:34:55 [Steven]
... then RDFa Monkey, I don't know the state
15:35:28 [RalphS]
-> RDFa monkey
15:35:37 [Steven]
... Fabien's XSLT, it is up to date, modulo a whitespace issue
15:36:14 [RalphS]
(RDFa monkey home page cites Elias' test files, not the more recent ones)
15:36:22 [Steven]
ACTION: Ben to add implementations page to
15:36:38 [benadida]
implementations ->
15:36:40 [Steven]
Ben: there are some other implementations, Java and Python
15:38:36 [Steven]
Manu: How about IE? I heard they are adding microformats
15:39:00 [Steven]
Shane: How about Chris Wilson?
15:39:15 [Steven]
Ben: Do you want to talk to him?
15:39:32 [Steven]
ACTION: Shane to contact Chris Wilson
15:39:34 [Steven]
15:39:37 [Steven]
-- done
15:39:52 [RalphS]
-> list of some RDFa implementations
15:43:13 [Steven]
Topic: Status of Test Cases
15:43:20 [Steven]
Ben: Deferred til next time
15:43:25 [Steven]
15:44:05 [Steven]
Ben: Isee your message about href everywhere Shane
15:44:11 [Steven]
... we did resolve to accept that
15:44:27 [Steven]
Shane: Yes, and I have today fixed that
15:45:07 [Steven]
Ben: Should we update the editor's draft and tell the reviewers?
15:45:13 [Steven]
Ralph: It would be good
15:45:39 [Steven]
Shane: I made a couple of editorial fixes too
15:45:52 [Steven]
ACTION: Shane to send a link to Ben
15:46:06 [Steven]
s/link/link to new editor's draft/
15:46:30 [Steven]
Topic: XHTML1.1 Namespace for rels
15:46:30 [Steven]
15:46:52 [Steven]
Ben: There is a problem that the XHTML namespace doesn't end with a hash or slash
15:48:20 [Steven]
Mark: In the section on unprefixed values, I say that it uses the XHTML namespace with a hash on the end
15:48:42 [Steven]
... but we should move away from the idea that these are namespaces
15:49:13 [Steven]
... so we are not talking about changing the XHTML namespace, but defining the prefix
15:49:57 [Steven]
... but there is a problem with overlap with the role attribute
15:50:22 [Steven]
... they are so close, they ought to use the same system
15:50:45 [Steven]
Shane: There can't be multiple default prefixes for CURIES
15:51:23 [Steven]
Ben: But rel can have a magic property using reserved words
15:52:28 [Steven]
Steven: I would be happy if we could avoid special rules and magic
15:53:15 [Steven]
Ben: I think it is a special case because of backwards compatibility
15:53:30 [Steven]
... rel="foobar" is not even allowed
15:53:41 [Steven]
Mark: It is if you have a @profile
15:54:01 [Steven]
... so there are docs with a profile, with non-HTML rels
15:54:07 [Steven]
... and quite valid therefore
15:54:55 [Steven]
Ben: So the specific issue
15:55:19 [Steven]
... we do need a default prefix URL, alsoi that ends in a hash or slash
15:55:52 [Steven]
Steven: Why does it matter?
15:56:09 [Steven]
Mark: Because of round-tripping, which strictly RDF doesn't support
15:56:33 [Steven]
... but is a sort of standard practice
15:56:56 [Steven]
.. in one case we would have the concept of xhtmlnext, as opposed to xhtml:next
15:57:12 [Steven]
... it is only convention
15:57:20 [Steven]
s/.. in/... in/
15:59:44 [Steven]
Ralph: I like the idea of Shane's to use Apache redirecting to redirect xhtmlnext to something else
16:00:34 [Steven]
Mark: WHy do we care; we can add a hash without a problem
16:00:46 [Steven]
16:01:28 [Steven]
Mark: We can add the relations to their own subnamespace
16:01:37 [Steven]
... otherwise just straght to the XHTML namespace
16:02:08 [Steven]
16:02:13 [benadida]
16:02:24 [Steven]
Ben: THat is the CC namesapce
16:02:28 [RalphS]
Shane: XHTML already has things under xhtml/ so I would expect objections to the simple concatenation xhtmlnext
16:02:30 [Steven]
16:03:00 [benadida]
16:03:50 [Steven]
Mark: In the Modularization schemas we have 1999/xhtml/datatypes
16:04:03 [benadida]
16:04:11 [benadida]
16:04:12 [Steven]
... so we could have 1999/xhtml/vocab# or something
16:04:41 [Steven]
Ben: I like the word vocab as being general
16:04:53 [Steven]
... anyone object?
16:05:16 [Steven]
SHane: Mostly harmless
16:05:21 [Steven]
16:07:00 [benadida]
PROPOSE that we use 1999/xhtml/vocab# as the prefix for next, prev, etc...
16:07:31 [Steven]
Ben: Deciding about nofollow is another issue
16:07:52 [Steven]
Ralph: Second
16:07:58 [Steven]
Ben: Opposed?
16:08:50 [Steven]
Mark: We can't speak for the whole XHTML2 WG, but I think it is the best option
16:08:58 [Steven]
Mark: +1 to it
16:09:20 [Steven]
RESOLUTION: that we use 1999/xhtml/vocab# as the prefix for next, prev, etc..
16:09:56 [ShaneM]
New draft of rdfa-syntax is at
16:10:19 [Steven]
Ben: This doesn't solve the issue of whether we should special-case the the legacy rels
16:10:26 [Steven]
... we'll treat that another week
16:10:32 [Steven]
16:10:39 [Zakim]
16:10:42 [Zakim]
16:10:43 [Zakim]
16:10:44 [Zakim]
16:10:46 [Zakim]
16:11:04 [Zakim]
16:11:05 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:11:06 [Zakim]
Attendees were ShaneM, Ralph, Manu, benadida, Steven, markbirbeck
16:11:09 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:11:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
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