14:11:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:11:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc
14:11:06 <LeeF> zakim, this will be DAWG
14:11:06 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
14:11:17 <LeeF> Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly
14:11:31 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0172.html
14:11:35 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0172.html
14:11:59 <LeeF> Regrets: Orri, IvanM
14:12:02 <LeeF> At-risk: EricP
14:12:05 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:12:09 <LeeF> Scribe: ?
14:14:14 <LeeF> agenda + Unescaped XML in results format
14:14:36 <LeeF> agenda + Towards PR
14:14:56 <LeeF> thanks ericP
14:15:12 <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso [DONE]
14:15:21 <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS: Invent and document an alternative to mf:requires for things that are noteable but not extensions in the test suite [DONE]
14:15:32 <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS: Update manifest for mf:requires [DONE]
14:15:47 <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS: Update vocabulary files and README for test [DONE]
14:16:47 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [CONTINUES]
14:17:03 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES]
14:17:14 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF: Reply to Alan's comment on metadata in SPARQL XML Results format [DONE]
14:17:26 <LeeF> ACTION: Eric+Andy to identify and collect mf:requires URIs and put in documentation [DONE]
14:17:37 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [DONE]
14:17:49 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES]
14:17:51 <LeeF> ...but progress
14:18:17 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0171.html
14:19:06 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP, AndyS to add the mf:requires labels to the manifest namespace document [DONE]
14:21:21 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to put together CR transition request for SPARQL XML format and ericP to publish [DONE]
14:21:33 <LeeF> actions?
14:27:30 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started
14:27:37 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
14:27:46 <LeeF> zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me
14:27:46 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:30:09 <AndyS> zakim, what is the code?
14:30:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), AndyS
14:30:43 <Zakim> +??P25
14:30:50 <AndyS> zakim, ??P25 is me
14:30:50 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:32:51 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-fr
14:32:51 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:32:52 <Zakim> +EricP
14:33:18 <ericP> hmm, no ringy
14:33:34 <AndyS> ringing here on the phone
14:33:50 <LeeF> SteveH, maybe / maybe not - do you have a strong feeling on the issue of unescaped XML in the SPARQL results format?
14:34:02 <LeeF> zakim, kick ericP
14:34:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'kick ericP', LeeF
14:34:07 <LeeF> zakim, drop ericP
14:34:07 <Zakim> EricP is being disconnected
14:34:07 <Zakim> -EricP
14:34:10 <SteveH> a strong "no" if that's relevant
14:34:40 <LeeF> "no" to having a strong feeling, or "no" to having unescaped XML?
14:34:52 <SteveH> "no" to having
14:35:12 <LeeF> SELECT ?x WHERE { to having ?x }
14:35:45 <Souri> Souri has joined #dawg
14:36:14 <SteveH> hm, I meant I'm in favour of not having unescaped XML in the result format - I don't trust myself to implement it correctly
14:36:26 <Zakim> +Souri_Das
14:36:28 <LeeF> ok, thanks :)
14:36:58 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #dawg
14:37:23 <Zakim> + +64241aaaa
14:37:45 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:37:50 <LeeF> zakim, aaaa is ericP
14:37:50 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
14:37:58 <LeeF> zakim, ericp is confused
14:37:58 <Zakim> +confused; got it
14:38:10 <ericP> Zakim, who is here?
14:38:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, Souri_Das, confused, Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:38:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see chimezie, Souri, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, SteveH, iv_an_ru, AndyS, ericP
14:38:56 <Zakim> +??P32
14:39:02 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P32 is SteveH
14:39:02 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:40:00 <LeeF> topic: logistics
14:40:05 <AndyS> LeeF proposes having a working meeting telecon on Thursday Oct 4 at 2:30 UTC.
14:40:46 <AndyS> ... not a full meeting - pushing on with preparation
14:41:25 <AndyS> EricP: Can't make Thurs - Wed better.
14:41:44 <AndyS> LeeF: Propose Oct 3 at 14:30 UTC.
14:41:54 <AndyS> Eric and Andy can make it.
14:41:59 <LeeF> topic: unescaped xml in result format
14:44:28 <LeeF> AndyS: use case is ability to have, e.g. XHTML in a result format
14:44:45 <LeeF> ... so that you can use XSLT to produce a table with rich-text and links, images, etc.
14:45:32 <Zakim> -confused
14:45:36 <LeeF> ... right now the result format has a schema - needs to be well-formed XML and can be validated against our relaxNG or XML schema
14:45:50 <LeeF> ... looked around for examples of embedding xml
14:45:58 <LeeF> ... XML literals in RDF/XML
14:46:12 <LeeF> ... putting document in SOAP envelopes
14:47:04 <LeeF> ... there is a canonicalization (c14n) spec at CR
14:47:11 <LeeF> ... also "exclusive xml canonicalization"
14:48:02 <ericP> weak!
14:48:37 <LeeF> LeeF: would we have designs to lean on?
14:48:45 <LeeF> AndyS: Only one to reference would be RDF/XML 
14:49:22 <LeeF> ... not an off the shelf XML solution AFAIK
14:51:07 <LeeF> LeeF: Do implementations do this?
14:51:22 <LeeF> AndyS: Joseki does not right now (escapes XML); Virtuoso does
14:51:22 <Zakim> +EricP
14:51:52 <AndyS> SteveH: escapes XML
14:52:36 <Zakim> -EricP
14:52:50 <AndyS> Chimezie: puts raw XML into DOM tree.
14:53:05 <LeeF> ericP, do you have an implementation of the result format that does/does not escape XML literals?
14:53:07 <Zakim> +EricP
14:53:35 <AndyS> EricP: no use cases, haven't pushed on it.
14:53:54 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
14:53:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, Souri_Das, Chimezie_Ogbuji, SteveH, EricP
14:53:55 <AndyS> (pp Ivan): Virtuoso embeds HTML in result set formats.
14:53:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see chimezie, Souri, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, SteveH, iv_an_ru, AndyS, ericP
14:54:20 <AndyS> Round table :
14:54:39 <AndyS> Chair - for Openlink: have some investement and usage
14:54:47 <chimezie> Doesn't Atom do this with XHTML?
14:54:56 <AndyS> They wish they brough this up before.
14:55:14 <LeeF> AndyS: Looks like a deep black hole, not well sorted out right now
14:55:29 <LeeF> ... worried about schedule issue, esp. considering lack of editor for document
14:56:00 <LeeF> ... may uncover other issues not considered by RDF/XML - makes this a large design space
14:56:16 <LeeF> ... design of result format to have a schema was purposeful, means a loss but shoudl take that into account
14:57:10 <AndyS> Souri: currently do not generate XML - do return an SQL table with XML string literally as seen
14:58:07 <AndyS> ... not worried about SPARQL supporting this feature 
14:58:52 <AndyS> "<tag/>"^^rdf:xmlLiteral
14:59:40 <AndyS> Chimie: would like to know more : example from Atom?
15:00:31 <AndyS> ... any tests?
15:00:41 <SteveH> http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/12/07/handling-atom-text-and-content-constructs.html
15:02:48 <AndyS> ... no tests in test suite
15:02:56 <ericP> <literal datatype="xsd:string">&lt;tag/&gt;</tag></literal>
15:03:12 <ericP> <literal datatype="rdf:xmlLiteral"><tag/></tag></literal>
15:03:15 <AndyS> we already have to escape anyway for non-XML.
15:03:39 <AndyS> s!/>!>!g
15:04:13 <AndyS> EricP: cool for language but special case that is new work.
15:04:58 <AndyS> LeeF: asks for energy level to edit the spec here
15:05:11 <AndyS> (noting we have no active editor)
15:05:24 <AndyS> EricP: prefer to wait for XML general solution.
15:05:43 <AndyS> ScribeNick: AndyS
15:06:03 <AndyS> LeeF: suggests opening and postposing an issue.
15:06:13 <ericP> ericP: solutions i've seen are all successive approximations of "good enough"
15:07:20 <LeeF> PROPOSED: No change to the SPARQL XML Results Format that would allow unescaped XML values 
15:08:12 <AndyS> Abstain: Openlink (Orri and Ivan)
15:08:24 <AndyS> Seconded: SteveH
15:08:30 <AndyS> RESOLVED
15:08:54 <AndyS> ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format.
15:09:21 <LeeF> topic: towards PR
15:09:32 <AndyS> Review status
15:09:52 <AndyS> QL: chair getting report generation to work portably
15:10:09 <AndyS> Next week - hope for report next week.
15:10:25 <AndyS> Protocol: Reminding EliasT as to progress.
15:12:15 <AndyS> SOAP: Joseki client - Virtoso server tested
15:12:58 <AndyS> Result format: will now go to CR
15:13:19 <AndyS> ... DAWG tests serve as tests of Results format.
15:13:40 <AndyS> ... but does not really test generation
15:14:06 <AndyS> Dave Beckett has provided XSLT to show transformation - used in SPARQLer.
15:14:27 <AndyS> HTTP testing should test generation (EliasT)
15:14:49 <AndyS> Not as rigorous as QL testing but adequate
15:16:22 <AndyS> Oct 2: bit tight for PR but wil try for that (else Oct 9)
15:17:51 <AndyS> rrsagent, make logs world-visible
15:18:11 <LeeF> PROPOSED: That given awareness of the last-minute issues surrounding unescaped XML and inline metadata in the SPARQL Query Result XML Format, the WG has decided to make no changes at this time and request publication of the document as a Candidate Rec
15:18:41 <AndyS> Seconded: EricP, AndyS
15:18:46 <AndyS> RESOLVED
15:18:59 <AndyS> Chair: LeeF
15:19:04 <AndyS> LeeF: AOB?
15:19:06 <AndyS> (none)
15:19:19 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:19:20 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
15:19:24 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:19:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-minutes.html AndyS
15:19:26 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:19:26 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:19:27 <Zakim> -EricP
15:19:29 <Zakim> -Souri_Das
15:19:33 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:19:34 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
15:19:35 <Zakim> Attendees were LeeF, AndyS, Souri_Das, +64241aaaa, Chimezie_Ogbuji, confused, SteveH, EricP
15:21:00 <AndyS> zakim, please leave
15:21:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
15:21:07 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso [DONE] [1]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-15-12
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS: Invent and document an alternative to mf:requires for things that are noteable but not extensions in the test suite [DONE] [2]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-15-21
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS: Update manifest for mf:requires [DONE] [3]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-15-32
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS: Update vocabulary files and README for test [DONE] [4]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-15-47
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [CONTINUES] [5]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-16-47
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES] [6]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-03
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF: Reply to Alan's comment on metadata in SPARQL XML Results format [DONE] [7]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-14
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Eric+Andy to identify and collect mf:requires URIs and put in documentation [DONE] [8]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-26
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [DONE] [9]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-37
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES] [10]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-49
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP, AndyS to add the mf:requires labels to the manifest namespace document [DONE] [11]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-19-06
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to put together CR transition request for SPARQL XML format and ericP to publish [DONE] [12]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-21-21
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format. [13]
15:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T15-08-54