IRC log of dawg on 2007-09-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:11:02 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:11:02 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc

14:11:06 [LeeF]

zakim, this will be DAWG

14:11:06 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes

14:11:17 [LeeF]

Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly

14:11:31 [LeeF]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0172.html

14:11:35 [LeeF]

LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0172.html

14:11:59 [LeeF]

Regrets: Orri, IvanM

14:12:02 [LeeF]

At-risk: EricP

14:12:05 [LeeF]

Chair: LeeF

14:12:09 [LeeF]

Scribe: ?

14:14:14 [LeeF]

agenda + Unescaped XML in results format

14:14:36 [LeeF]

agenda + Towards PR

14:14:56 [LeeF]

thanks ericP

14:15:12 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso [DONE]

14:15:21 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS: Invent and document an alternative to mf:requires for things that are noteable but not extensions in the test suite [DONE]

14:15:32 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS: Update manifest for mf:requires [DONE]

14:15:47 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS: Update vocabulary files and README for test [DONE]

14:16:47 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [CONTINUES]

14:17:03 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES]

14:17:14 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF: Reply to Alan's comment on metadata in SPARQL XML Results format [DONE]

14:17:26 [LeeF]

ACTION: Eric+Andy to identify and collect mf:requires URIs and put in documentation [DONE]

14:17:37 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [DONE]

14:17:49 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES]

14:17:51 [LeeF]

...but progress

14:18:17 [LeeF]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0171.html

14:19:06 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP, AndyS to add the mf:requires labels to the manifest namespace document [DONE]

14:21:21 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to put together CR transition request for SPARQL XML format and ericP to publish [DONE]

14:21:33 [LeeF]

actions?

14:27:30 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started

14:27:37 [Zakim]

+Lee_Feigenbaum

14:27:46 [LeeF]

zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me

14:27:46 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

14:30:09 [AndyS]

zakim, what is the code?

14:30:09 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), AndyS

14:30:43 [Zakim]

+??P25

14:30:50 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P25 is me

14:30:50 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:32:51 [ericP]

Zakim, please dial ericP-fr

14:32:51 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; the call is being made

14:32:52 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:33:18 [ericP]

hmm, no ringy

14:33:34 [AndyS]

ringing here on the phone

14:33:50 [LeeF]

SteveH, maybe / maybe not - do you have a strong feeling on the issue of unescaped XML in the SPARQL results format?

14:34:02 [LeeF]

zakim, kick ericP

14:34:02 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'kick ericP', LeeF

14:34:07 [LeeF]

zakim, drop ericP

14:34:07 [Zakim]

EricP is being disconnected

14:34:07 [Zakim]

-EricP

14:34:10 [SteveH]

a strong "no" if that's relevant

14:34:40 [LeeF]

"no" to having a strong feeling, or "no" to having unescaped XML?

14:34:52 [SteveH]

"no" to having

14:35:12 [LeeF]

SELECT ?x WHERE { to having ?x }

14:35:45 [Souri]

Souri has joined #dawg

14:36:14 [SteveH]

hm, I meant I'm in favour of not having unescaped XML in the result format - I don't trust myself to implement it correctly

14:36:26 [Zakim]

+Souri_Das

14:36:28 [LeeF]

ok, thanks :)

14:36:58 [chimezie]

chimezie has joined #dawg

14:37:23 [Zakim]

+ +64241aaaa

14:37:45 [Zakim]

+Chimezie_Ogbuji

14:37:50 [LeeF]

zakim, aaaa is ericP

14:37:50 [Zakim]

+ericP; got it

14:37:58 [LeeF]

zakim, ericp is confused

14:37:58 [Zakim]

+confused; got it

14:38:10 [ericP]

Zakim, who is here?

14:38:10 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, Souri_Das, confused, Chimezie_Ogbuji

14:38:11 [Zakim]

On IRC I see chimezie, Souri, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, SteveH, iv_an_ru, AndyS, ericP

14:38:56 [Zakim]

+??P32

14:39:02 [SteveH]

Zakim, ??P32 is SteveH

14:39:02 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:40:00 [LeeF]

topic: logistics

14:40:05 [AndyS]

LeeF proposes having a working meeting telecon on Thursday Oct 4 at 2:30 UTC.

14:40:46 [AndyS]

... not a full meeting - pushing on with preparation

14:41:25 [AndyS]

EricP: Can't make Thurs - Wed better.

14:41:44 [AndyS]

LeeF: Propose Oct 3 at 14:30 UTC.

14:41:54 [AndyS]

Eric and Andy can make it.

14:41:59 [LeeF]

topic: unescaped xml in result format

14:44:28 [LeeF]

AndyS: use case is ability to have, e.g. XHTML in a result format

14:44:45 [LeeF]

... so that you can use XSLT to produce a table with rich-text and links, images, etc.

14:45:32 [Zakim]

-confused

14:45:36 [LeeF]

... right now the result format has a schema - needs to be well-formed XML and can be validated against our relaxNG or XML schema

14:45:50 [LeeF]

... looked around for examples of embedding xml

14:45:58 [LeeF]

... XML literals in RDF/XML

14:46:12 [LeeF]

... putting document in SOAP envelopes

14:47:04 [LeeF]

... there is a canonicalization (c14n) spec at CR

14:47:11 [LeeF]

... also "exclusive xml canonicalization"

14:48:02 [ericP]

weak!

14:48:37 [LeeF]

LeeF: would we have designs to lean on?

14:48:45 [LeeF]

AndyS: Only one to reference would be RDF/XML

14:49:22 [LeeF]

... not an off the shelf XML solution AFAIK

14:51:07 [LeeF]

LeeF: Do implementations do this?

14:51:22 [LeeF]

AndyS: Joseki does not right now (escapes XML); Virtuoso does

14:51:22 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:51:52 [AndyS]

SteveH: escapes XML

14:52:36 [Zakim]

-EricP

14:52:50 [AndyS]

Chimezie: puts raw XML into DOM tree.

14:53:05 [LeeF]

ericP, do you have an implementation of the result format that does/does not escape XML literals?

14:53:07 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:53:35 [AndyS]

EricP: no use cases, haven't pushed on it.

14:53:54 [LeeF]

zakim, who's here?

14:53:54 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, Souri_Das, Chimezie_Ogbuji, SteveH, EricP

14:53:55 [AndyS]

(pp Ivan): Virtuoso embeds HTML in result set formats.

14:53:57 [Zakim]

On IRC I see chimezie, Souri, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, SteveH, iv_an_ru, AndyS, ericP

14:54:20 [AndyS]

Round table :

14:54:39 [AndyS]

Chair - for Openlink: have some investement and usage

14:54:47 [chimezie]

Doesn't Atom do this with XHTML?

14:54:56 [AndyS]

They wish they brough this up before.

14:55:14 [LeeF]

AndyS: Looks like a deep black hole, not well sorted out right now

14:55:29 [LeeF]

... worried about schedule issue, esp. considering lack of editor for document

14:56:00 [LeeF]

... may uncover other issues not considered by RDF/XML - makes this a large design space

14:56:16 [LeeF]

... design of result format to have a schema was purposeful, means a loss but shoudl take that into account

14:57:10 [AndyS]

Souri: currently do not generate XML - do return an SQL table with XML string literally as seen

14:58:07 [AndyS]

... not worried about SPARQL supporting this feature

14:58:52 [AndyS]

"<tag/>"^^rdf:xmlLiteral

14:59:40 [AndyS]

Chimie: would like to know more : example from Atom?

15:00:31 [AndyS]

... any tests?

15:00:41 [SteveH]

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/12/07/handling-atom-text-and-content-constructs.html

15:02:48 [AndyS]

... no tests in test suite

15:02:56 [ericP]

<literal datatype="xsd:string">&lt;tag/&gt;</tag></literal>

15:03:12 [ericP]

<literal datatype="rdf:xmlLiteral"><tag/></tag></literal>

15:03:15 [AndyS]

we already have to escape anyway for non-XML.

15:03:39 [AndyS]

s!/>!>!g

15:04:13 [AndyS]

EricP: cool for language but special case that is new work.

15:04:58 [AndyS]

LeeF: asks for energy level to edit the spec here

15:05:11 [AndyS]

(noting we have no active editor)

15:05:24 [AndyS]

EricP: prefer to wait for XML general solution.

15:05:43 [AndyS]

ScribeNick: AndyS

15:06:03 [AndyS]

LeeF: suggests opening and postposing an issue.

15:06:13 [ericP]

ericP: solutions i've seen are all successive approximations of "good enough"

15:07:20 [LeeF]

PROPOSED: No change to the SPARQL XML Results Format that would allow unescaped XML values

15:08:12 [AndyS]

Abstain: Openlink (Orri and Ivan)

15:08:24 [AndyS]

Seconded: SteveH

15:08:30 [AndyS]

RESOLVED

15:08:54 [AndyS]

ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format.

15:09:21 [LeeF]

topic: towards PR

15:09:32 [AndyS]

Review status

15:09:52 [AndyS]

QL: chair getting report generation to work portably

15:10:09 [AndyS]

Next week - hope for report next week.

15:10:25 [AndyS]

Protocol: Reminding EliasT as to progress.

15:12:15 [AndyS]

SOAP: Joseki client - Virtoso server tested

15:12:58 [AndyS]

Result format: will now go to CR

15:13:19 [AndyS]

... DAWG tests serve as tests of Results format.

15:13:40 [AndyS]

... but does not really test generation

15:14:06 [AndyS]

Dave Beckett has provided XSLT to show transformation - used in SPARQLer.

15:14:27 [AndyS]

HTTP testing should test generation (EliasT)

15:14:49 [AndyS]

Not as rigorous as QL testing but adequate

15:16:22 [AndyS]

Oct 2: bit tight for PR but wil try for that (else Oct 9)

15:17:51 [AndyS]

rrsagent, make logs world-visible

15:18:11 [LeeF]

PROPOSED: That given awareness of the last-minute issues surrounding unescaped XML and inline metadata in the SPARQL Query Result XML Format, the WG has decided to make no changes at this time and request publication of the document as a Candidate Rec

15:18:41 [AndyS]

Seconded: EricP, AndyS

15:18:46 [AndyS]

RESOLVED

15:18:59 [AndyS]

Chair: LeeF

15:19:04 [AndyS]

LeeF: AOB?

15:19:06 [AndyS]

(none)

15:19:19 [Zakim]

-Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:19:20 [AndyS]

ADJOURNED

15:19:24 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

15:19:24 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-minutes.html AndyS

15:19:26 [Zakim]

-LeeF

15:19:26 [Zakim]

-SteveH

15:19:27 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:19:29 [Zakim]

-Souri_Das

15:19:33 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:19:34 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

15:19:35 [Zakim]

Attendees were LeeF, AndyS, Souri_Das, +64241aaaa, Chimezie_Ogbuji, confused, SteveH, EricP

15:21:00 [AndyS]

zakim, please leave

15:21:00 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg

15:21:07 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please leave

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-actions.rdf :

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso [DONE] [1]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-15-12

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS: Invent and document an alternative to mf:requires for things that are noteable but not extensions in the test suite [DONE] [2]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-15-21

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS: Update manifest for mf:requires [DONE] [3]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-15-32

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS: Update vocabulary files and README for test [DONE] [4]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-15-47

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [CONTINUES] [5]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-16-47

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [CONTINUES] [6]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-03

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF: Reply to Alan's comment on metadata in SPARQL XML Results format [DONE] [7]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-14

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Eric+Andy to identify and collect mf:requires URIs and put in documentation [DONE] [8]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-26

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [DONE] [9]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-37

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES] [10]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-17-49

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP, AndyS to add the mf:requires labels to the manifest namespace document [DONE] [11]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-19-06

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to put together CR transition request for SPARQL XML format and ericP to publish [DONE] [12]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T14-21-21

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF: open and postpone an issue on unescapes XML in result set format. [13]

15:21:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-dawg-irc#T15-08-54