13:59:38 RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:59:38 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/19-xhtml-irc
13:59:45 Zakim has joined #xhtml
13:59:54 zakim, this will be xhtml
13:59:54 ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:00:08 Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
14:00:12 Chair: Steven
14:00:38 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Sep/0010
14:00:40 alessio has joined #xhtml
14:00:48 Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Sep/0010
14:00:57 hallo
14:01:31 hi
14:02:12 IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started
14:02:18 +??P24
14:02:29 Zakim ??P24 is yamx
14:03:12 zakim, dial steven-617
14:03:12 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:03:17 +??P27
14:03:23 zakim, ??P24 is yamx
14:03:23 +yamx; got it
14:03:34 Zakim ??P27 is Alessio
14:03:59 zakim, drop steven
14:03:59 sorry, Steven, I do not see a party named 'steven'
14:04:01 Rich has joined #xhtml
14:04:05 zakim, dial steven-617
14:04:05 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:04:07 +Steven
14:04:13 +[IBM]
14:04:35 zakim, [ is Rich
14:04:35 +Rich; got it
14:04:57 zakim, ??P27 is Alessio
14:04:57 +Alessio; got it
14:07:58 markbirbeck has joined #xhtml
14:08:17 zakim, code?
14:08:17 the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
14:08:52 +markbirbeck
14:09:12 zakim, who is here?
14:09:12 On the phone I see yamx, Steven, Alessio, Rich, markbirbeck
14:09:13 On IRC I see markbirbeck, Rich, alessio, Zakim, RRSAgent, yamx, Tina, Steven, Lachy, krijnh
14:10:25 +McCarron
14:10:41 + +046708aaaa
14:10:52 Zakim, aaa is Tina
14:10:53 sorry, Tina, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
14:11:08 Zakim, 8aaa is Tina
14:11:08 sorry, Tina, I do not recognize a party named '8aaa'
14:11:40 Zakim, ++46708aaa is Tina
14:11:40 sorry, Tina, I do not recognize a party named '++46708aaa'
14:11:51 zakim, aaaa is Tina
14:11:51 sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
14:12:07 zakim, +4 is Tina
14:12:07 sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '+4'
14:12:54 Zakim, +46708aaa is Tina
14:12:54 sorry, alessio, I do not recognize a party named '+46708aaa'
14:13:15 zakim, who is here?
14:13:15 On the phone I see yamx, Steven, Alessio, Rich, markbirbeck, McCarron, +046708aabb
14:13:17 On IRC I see markbirbeck, Rich, alessio, Zakim, RRSAgent, yamx, Tina, Steven, Lachy, krijnh
14:13:24 My phone connection is pretty bad; sorry about that. Minutes would be poor quality.
14:13:31 Zakim, mute me
14:13:31 sorry, Tina, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:13:54 zakim, 46 is Tina
14:13:54 sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '46'
14:14:04 Scribe: Steven
14:14:10 Topic: Announcements
14:14:16 zakim, +046708aabb is Tina
14:14:16 +Tina; got it
14:14:21 -McCarron
14:14:30 Zakim, mute me
14:14:30 Tina should now be muted
14:14:42 +McCarron
14:14:59 ACTION: Steven to make a reg page for Boston FtF
14:15:50 Steven: Note we are meeting WEed/Thu/Fri
14:16:27 ACTION: Steven to ensure there is a chair for next week
14:16:37 Steven: I can't be here next week, at a W3C.de day
14:17:02 Topic: Do not deprecate the profile attribute (request from GRDDL WG)
14:17:02 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Sep/0008
14:19:25 Steven: THe GRDDL people would rather we kept @profile
14:19:47 ... but the problem is that even if we kept it, people would still be able to use rel="profile"
14:20:02 Shane: I'm not willing to give up rel="profile"; that would be a mistake
14:20:30 ... there is also a problem is they are coopting @profile
14:21:28 Steven: Do the different uses, like microformats and GRDDL bite each other?
14:21:40 ... can they work in combination?
14:22:17 Mark: I think they have their own URL in the profile attribute as one of the urls
14:22:30 ... and then seeing that they know they need to process the document
14:22:59 ... then they use rels (maybe) to discover the transformation
14:23:25 Mark: They use namespaces
14:23:44 ... there's no use of profile at all in the example I'm looking at
14:23:47 http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#grddl-xml
14:24:09 xmlns:grddl='http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view#'
14:24:09 grddl:transformation="glean_title.xsl
14:24:09 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/getAuthor.xsl"
14:24:09 >
14:24:10
14:25:02 (2. Adding GRDDL to well-formed XML)
14:25:18 Mark: It just happens that they used xhtml for their xml
14:25:33 http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#grddl-xhtml
14:25:43 4. Using GRDDL with valid XHTML
14:25:57
14:25:57
14:26:08 href="http://www.w3.org/2000/06/dc-extract/dc-extract.xsl" />
14:27:05 SHane: If we were nice, we would add 'transformation' to our list of rels
14:27:08 Steven: Good idea
14:27:25 ... and @grddly:transformation to the html element
14:29:07 Steven: WHy not use the grddl namespace declaration to detext a grddl document?
14:29:39 Mark: At the least we should be saying that profile is too flaky
14:30:01 ... it doesn't give you the connection between the profile url and the rel values
14:30:12 ... it doesn't give you anything actually
14:30:24 Shane: We ought to work with them to produce a rel="grddl"
14:30:37 s/ought/ought to have/
14:30:46 Shane: But it is already a Rec
14:31:01 Mark: Are we going to preserve this in XHTML2
14:31:10 ... they argue yes for backwards compatibility
14:31:17 ... but it is not an issue really
14:31:31 SHane: Let me play devil's advocate
14:31:50 ... they want the same processor to work on HTML and XHTML2
14:31:58 s/SHane/Shane/G
14:32:18 Mark: But other document types don't have the profile attribute
14:32:21 ... why should we?
14:32:41 ... We should use the other technique in XHTML2
14:33:19 ... We shoukld reply "Given you have another mechanism, why should we use the legacy mechanism, which is falky anyway?"
14:33:54 Shane: Say it in a different way. "Hey, we are generic XML, and we'll even build a GRDDL module for you, so you can use the generic mechanism"
14:34:09 Mark: We need to think about this for RDFa too
14:34:42 Shane: Since rdfa takes a CURIE in rel, it just works
14:34:59 ... you have to devclare the GRDDL namespace, but we do that anyway
14:35:03 s/we/they/
14:35:34 Mark: And in XHTML+RDFa they should be using the generic method too
14:35:46 ... rel="grddl:transformation"
14:37:05 Steven: But isn't their pain point that they want to be able to identify a GRDDLE doc from the root, or otherwsie head element
14:37:18 Shane: THe GRDDL namespace should be good enough for them
14:37:26 s/THe/The/G
14:37:29 +ShaneM
14:37:33 -McCarron
14:38:02 ACTION: Steven to reply to GRDDL people about techniques for identifying GRDDL docs
14:38:23 Missing element declarations from XHTML Modularization 1.1
14:38:27 Topic: Missing element declarations from XHTML Modularization 1.1
14:38:33 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0029
14:38:35 ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:39:41 Shane: These are defined as far as I know. Let me check
14:39:52 ... Yes, in the frame module
14:40:27 Mark: Maybe they are missing in the schema, but not in the spec
14:40:33 Shane: Oh, he's right
14:40:50 ... we need to reissue ruby
14:40:53 ... oh wait
14:40:57 ... they are in here too
14:41:20 ... oh, he maybe right
14:41:36 ACTION: Shane to fix missing elements in M12N
14:41:46 ACTION: SHane to reply to ht
14:42:07 ACTION: Group to reissue Ruby with schema additions
14:42:32 Topic: XHTML Basic 1.1 DTD declares hr but it cannot be included in any element
14:42:32 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0030
14:43:40 Steven: The abstract says that the poresentation module is included
14:43:55 Shane: ANd we list hr too
14:44:43 ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:44:49 "| %tt.qname; | %i.qname; | %b.qname; | %big.qname;
14:44:49 | %small.qname; | %sub.qname; | %sup.qname;" >
14:44:50 b, big, hr, i, small, sub, sup, tt
14:46:18 Shane: I'll link it in
14:46:28 Steven: This will have to be a CR comment
14:46:40 ACTION: Shane to link hr into Basic 1.1
14:46:57 ACTION: Steven to reply to hr comment, and make it a CR comment
14:47:33 Steven: Didn't you have a testfest revently Yam?
14:48:06 Yam: Starting tomorrow
14:48:51 ... and November in Slovenia
14:48:58 ... but I'll check
14:49:26 Topic: Error in http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801
14:49:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0031
14:49:58 http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/#h-4.8
14:51:58 Going back to GRDDL, the spec says "This method [using @profile] is suitable for use with valid XHTML documents which are constrained by an XML DTD." In other words they are saying that this is _not_ the preferred method.
14:52:07 o it seems legitimate to me to say that we feel no need to try to support the @profile technique, in situations where the @xmlns technique is supported.
14:52:07 Shane: Well, this is a technique to get round bugs in browsers
14:52:16 ... we shouldn't document that
14:52:22 s/o it/So it/
14:52:23 ... we use this technique too
14:52:30 ... but it shouldn't be part of a spec
14:52:39 OMA test fest 20 was from Sep 7 to Sep 14, so I will check the test reports.
14:53:06 ACTION: Steven to reply to script+cdata mail, saying we don't want to document it
14:53:49 Topic: GRDDL again
14:54:13 Mark: THeir doc does seem to say that the rpofile technique is a fallback when the XML technique isn't suitable
14:54:20 ... so that backs up our position
14:54:26 s/TH/Th/
14:54:34 s/rpofile/profile/
14:54:35 For example: "To accomodate the DTD-based syntax of XHTML[XHTML], which precludes using attributes from foreign namespaces, we use http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view as a metadata profile (cf. section 7.4.4.3 Meta data profiles of [HTML4])."
14:55:11 Topic: role
14:55:45 Steven: I have requested a loast call publication
14:55:53 ... awaiting a reply about a suitable date
14:56:04 ... when that comes in, we can publish with that date
14:57:05 Topic: Modularization
14:57:31 Steven: We have gone through last call, so we should move to CR with this
14:57:40 ... do we have a DoC?
14:57:57 ACTION: Shane to ensure we have a M12N DoC
14:58:05 ACTION: Steven to take M12N to CR
14:59:16 -ShaneM
14:59:17 -markbirbeck
14:59:18 -Rich
14:59:20 -yamx
14:59:21 -Steven
14:59:22 ADJOURN
14:59:22 -Alessio
14:59:22 -Tina
14:59:24 IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended
14:59:25 Attendees were yamx, Steven, [IBM], Rich, Alessio, markbirbeck, McCarron, +046708aaaa, Tina, ShaneM
14:59:29 rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/19-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:59:47 rrsagent, make log public
14:59:56 rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/19-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:00:50 alessio_ has joined #xhtml
15:06:34 ShaneM has left #xhtml
15:11:29 zakim, i am aadd
15:11:29 sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'aadd'
15:28:25 Rich has left #xhtml
17:31:43 Zakim has left #xhtml