IRC log of dawg on 2007-09-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:32:27 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:32:27 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc

14:32:29 [LeeF]

zakim, this is dawg

14:32:29 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM

14:32:34 [LeeF]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:32:34 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P29, EricP, LeeF

14:32:43 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P29 is me

14:32:43 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:32:56 [LeeF]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0155.html

14:33:03 [LeeF]

Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly

14:33:14 [LeeF]

AndyS, can I interest you in scribing pretty please?

14:33:18 [Zakim]

+??P32

14:33:26 [SteveH]

Zakim, ??P32 is me

14:33:26 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:33:51 [LeeF]

Chair: LeeF

14:34:23 [LeeF]

Scribe: AndyS

14:34:29 [LeeF]

agenda + convene

14:34:33 [LeeF]

agenda + actions

14:34:38 [Zakim]

+??P33

14:34:40 [LeeF]

agenda + metadata in xml result format

14:34:58 [iv_an_ru]

Zakim, P33 is me

14:34:58 [Zakim]

sorry, iv_an_ru, I do not recognize a party named 'P33'

14:35:00 [LeeF]

agenda - 3

14:35:05 [LeeF]

agenda + xml result format

14:35:08 [LeeF]

agenda + protocol testing

14:35:12 [iv_an_ru]

Zakim, ??P33 is me

14:35:12 [Zakim]

+iv_an_ru; got it

14:35:12 [LeeF]

agenda + mf:requires

14:35:15 [LeeF]

agenda + implementation report

14:35:23 [LeeF]

agenda + towards PR

14:35:40 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/att-0134/2007-09-11-dawg-minutes.html minutes from last week

14:35:55 [Zakim]

+??P9

14:36:19 [LeeF]

minutes approved

14:36:25 [AndyS]

Seconded: AndyS

14:36:27 [LeeF]

Regrets: chimezie

14:36:45 [LeeF]

zakim, who's here?

14:36:45 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, EricP, LeeF, SteveH, iv_an_ru, ??P9

14:36:46 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, iv_an_ru, AndyS, afs, SteveH, LeeF, ericP

14:37:00 [LeeF]

zakim, ??P9 is Orri

14:37:00 [Zakim]

+Orri; got it

14:37:16 [AndyS]

Meet next week: 25 September

14:37:43 [AndyS]

Regrets in advance: Orri and Ivan

14:37:52 [iv_an_ru]

I agree with moving to CR in advance :)

14:38:10 [AndyS]

LeeF: please track DAWG as we will attempt to plan to move to PR.

14:38:14 [AndyS]

... next week

14:38:27 [AndyS]

Orri: diffs of rq25 are OK

14:38:30 [LeeF]

zakim, take up next agendum

14:38:30 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "convene" taken up [from LeeF]

14:38:33 [Souri]

Souri has joined #dawg

14:38:34 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

14:38:34 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

14:38:35 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:38:37 [LeeF]

zakim, take up next agendum

14:38:37 [Zakim]

2. actions [from LeeF]

14:38:38 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "actions" taken up [from LeeF]

14:38:44 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to have first cut of shiny implementation report by 11 Sep [DONE]

14:38:55 [LeeF]

ACTION: Orri and Ivan to publish URL to test service along with a list of tests that aren't handled correctly yet [DONE]

14:39:10 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso

14:39:10 [LeeF]

endpoints

14:39:19 [iv_an_ru]

I'm releasing next version of the test suite today.

14:39:24 [Zakim]

+Souri

14:39:31 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso endpoints [DONE]

14:39:38 [LeeF]

action -3

14:39:49 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to update open-world manifest with mf:requires for open-eq-12 [DONE]

14:40:04 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to update Turtle data to have explicit lexical forms and answer Gregory W's mail [DONE]

14:40:17 [AndyS]

and Andy checked the changes

14:40:26 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES]

14:40:59 [AndyS]

LeeF: when we advance, should we prompt IETF harder?

14:41:04 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to put together CR transition request for SPARQL XML format and ericP to publish [CONTINUES]

14:41:33 [AndyS]

EricP: it should just happen

14:41:48 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to write explanatory text saying that, like xsd:inteter and xsd:dateTime, the relative order of simple literals and xsd:strings is not defined here [DONE]

14:41:58 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [CONTINUES]

14:42:13 [LeeF]

ACTION: Eric+Andy to identify and collect mf:requires URIs and put in documentation [CONTINUES]

14:42:23 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP, AndyS to add the mf:requires labels to the manifest namespace document [CONTINUES]

14:43:35 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to incorporate text to fix EBV of illformed numeric literals bug in spec [DONE]

14:43:37 [LeeF]

"""

14:43:38 [LeeF]

The EBV of any literal whose type is xsd:boolean, xsd:string or numeric is false if the lexical form is not valid for that datatype (e.g. "abc"^^xsd:integer).

14:43:39 [LeeF]

"""

14:43:48 [Zakim]

-iv_an_ru

14:43:49 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to try to produce a diff from CR to current editor's draft [DONE]

14:43:57 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

14:43:57 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

14:43:58 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:43:59 [Zakim]

4. xml result format [from LeeF]

14:44:01 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

14:44:01 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "xml result format" taken up [from LeeF]

14:44:18 [Zakim]

+??P7

14:44:31 [iv_an_ru]

Zakim, ??P7 is me

14:44:31 [Zakim]

+iv_an_ru; got it

14:45:39 [LeeF]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-

14:45:39 [LeeF]

dawg-comments/2005Jun/0028.html

14:45:57 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jun/0028.html original comment that prompted <link> element

14:46:02 [AndyS]

LeeF: History of link element and summary of discussions with Alan

14:46:31 [AndyS]

Alan proposes inline metadata to avoid server state.

14:46:42 [ericP]

q+ to note a potential fix to [[• The EBV of any literal whose type is xsd:boolean, xsd:string or numeric is false if the lexical form is not valid for that datatype (e.g. "abc"^^xsd:integer).]]

14:47:01 [AndyS]

... comment is very late in process.

14:47:26 [AndyS]

... would cost another cycle (at least one month).

14:48:01 [AndyS]

LeeF asks for WG support ... none forthcoming.

14:48:29 [AndyS]

ACTION: LeeF: Reply to Alan's comment on metadata in SPARQL XML Results format

14:48:59 [AndyS]

EricP: notes binding of, e.g. SOAP, has features.

14:49:19 [AndyS]

...to support state

14:49:50 [AndyS]

LeeF: status: waiting for W3C approval on process

14:49:54 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

14:49:54 [Zakim]

I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LeeF

14:50:05 [LeeF]

ack ericp

14:50:05 [Zakim]

ericP, you wanted to note a potential fix to [[• The EBV of any literal whose type is xsd:boolean, xsd:string or numeric is false if the lexical form is not valid for that

14:50:09 [Zakim]

... datatype (e.g. "abc"^^xsd:integer).]]

14:52:20 [LeeF]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq25.html#ebv EBV text (only defined for strings, booleans, numerics)

14:52:29 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

14:52:29 [Zakim]

agendum 4 closed

14:52:30 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:52:31 [Zakim]

5. protocol testing [from LeeF]

14:53:29 [LeeF]

"Effective boolean value arguments (labeled "xsd:boolean (EBV)" in the operator mapping table below), are coerced to xsd:boolean using the EBV rules in section 11.2.2 ."

14:53:53 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

14:53:53 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "protocol testing" taken up [from LeeF]

14:54:57 [AndyS]

Chair has feedback from implementers about existing HTTP bindings

14:55:12 [AndyS]

... Elias will have the protocol tests running

14:55:30 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0149.html about SOAP versions

14:57:32 [AndyS]

AndyS: Virtuoso have offered to back port to SOAP 1.1

14:58:10 [imitko]

imitko has joined #dawg

14:59:26 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

14:59:26 [Zakim]

agendum 5 closed

14:59:27 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:59:28 [Zakim]

6. mf:requires [from LeeF]

14:59:29 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

14:59:29 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "mf:requires" taken up [from LeeF]

14:59:59 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0147.html beginning documentation of mf:requires

15:00:03 [LeeF]

zakim, who's speaking?

15:00:14 [Zakim]

LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Orri (15%), SteveH (8%)

15:00:41 [SteveH]

there's a lot of background noise here, sorry

15:03:27 [AndyS]

Change to use mf:XsdDateOperation

15:04:08 [AndyS]

mf:IllFormedLiterals -- actually used for tricky bits, not extension

15:05:20 [LeeF]

mf:trickyBitOfSparql ?

15:05:53 [LeeF]

mf:notewell ?

15:07:35 [iv_an_ru]

mf:mayAccessAndReturnUnexpectedDataFromGraphsNotListedInManifest ? :)

15:08:32 [AndyS]

ACTION: AndyS: Invent and document an alternative to mf:requires for things that are noteable but not extensions in the test suite

15:08:44 [LeeF]

mf:LangCaseInsensitivity can be struck

15:09:53 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness

15:11:15 [LeeF]

strike mf:xsd-date-eq-xsd-dateTime

15:11:41 [iv_an_ru]

Don't remember me about datetimes...

15:11:52 [Zakim]

-iv_an_ru

15:12:18 [AndyS]

ACTION: AndyS: Update vocabulary files and README for test

15:12:23 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:12:37 [iv_an_ru]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:12:37 [Zakim]

+iv_an_ru; got it

15:12:47 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

15:12:47 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

15:12:48 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:12:50 [Zakim]

7. implementation report [from LeeF]

15:12:51 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

15:12:51 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]

15:12:54 [AndyS]

ACTION: AndyS: Update manifest for mf:requires

15:15:12 [LeeF]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/implementations first draft of implementation report

15:15:13 [AndyS]

LeeF: more results expected

15:16:36 [ericP]

-> http://mouni.local/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/impl_report.pl the SPARQL queries (and surrounding script) for generating the impl report

15:18:08 [AndyS]

EricP: A test passes if ...

15:18:36 [AndyS]

... no tests => green box (??)

15:18:45 [LeeF]

(it's a mistake in the algorithm)

15:18:46 [iv_an_ru]

Why not ?

15:19:05 [AndyS]

... for any facet, there are certain tests associated with it

15:19:30 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [DONE]

15:20:29 [AndyS]

... if two facets on a test, test processor calculates the best match as to which facet is the fail

15:21:06 [AndyS]

... (e.g. already failed elsewhere for one facet => don't mark a failure for other facet)

15:22:54 [AndyS]

LeeF suggests seeking wisdom in reporting coverage

15:25:03 [AndyS]

Steve: can pass some facets without any implementation

15:35:18 [LeeF]

No matter what, I intend to publish _all_ of the data we have

15:35:55 [LeeF]

zakim, close this agendum

15:35:55 [Zakim]

agendum 7 closed

15:35:56 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

15:35:58 [Zakim]

8. towards PR [from LeeF]

15:35:59 [LeeF]

zakim, next agendum

15:35:59 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "towards PR" taken up [from LeeF]

15:36:23 [LeeF]

"A test suite gives reasonable coverage of the features of the query language."

15:36:42 [LeeF]

"Each identified SPARQL feature has at least two implementations."

15:36:54 [AndyS]

(exit criteria for CR)

15:36:56 [LeeF]

"Relevant media types are registered:"

15:37:08 [LeeF]

"Normative dependencies have been advanced to Proposed Recommendation status:"

15:37:13 [ericP]

HOG++

15:37:44 [AndyS]

Our normative dependences are already at REC (Xquery, F&O)

15:38:54 [AndyS]

Need to decide on "at risk" features: REDUCED, leading numbers in local part of prefixed names

15:39:02 [LeeF]

also: what to do with syntax tests?

15:39:29 [Zakim]

-SteveH

15:39:34 [LeeF]

SteveH, do you implement REDUCED?

15:39:37 [SteveH]

yes

15:39:40 [LeeF]

thx

15:40:13 [iv_an_ru]

I'm implementing REDUCED before Friday, BTW.

15:40:18 [LeeF]

:-)

15:40:22 [AndyS]

Leef: Does anyone want to propose removing REDUCED?

15:40:27 [AndyS]

(silence follows)

15:40:28 [SteveH]

REDUCED is a big optimisation win for me in certain circumstances

15:40:41 [iv_an_ru]

I've found REDUCED very useful for at least one optimization.

15:41:13 [LeeF]

Great, good feedback to have.

15:41:17 [SteveH]

but maybe if I had a streaming DISTINCT impl. it wouldn't be so useful

15:41:40 [AndyS]

There is no "REDUCED" in the test suite.

15:42:01 [iv_an_ru]

REDUCED is especially useful when there's a join between union that is faster when UNION and union that is faster when it's UNION ALL.

15:43:14 [AndyS]

LeeF: Leading digits.

15:43:16 [AndyS]

Several implementions support it

15:43:38 [AndyS]

LeeF: asks for proposals NOT to keep this feature.

15:44:17 [AndyS]

... needs to get into interop report.

15:46:28 [AndyS]

Eric: Min is 4 week in PR.

15:47:28 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request

15:48:09 [AndyS]

Ivan: Mitko has deployed a SOAP 1.1 endpoint

15:48:27 [iv_an_ru]

Andy, I know.

15:49:21 [AndyS]

Souri: working to export RDF_MATCH to SPARQL query engine.

15:51:07 [AndyS]

ADJOURNED

15:51:20 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

15:51:20 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-minutes.html AndyS

15:51:20 [Zakim]

-Orri

15:51:24 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:51:25 [LeeF]

:-)

15:51:25 [Zakim]

-Souri

15:51:30 [Zakim]

-LeeF

15:51:34 [AndyS]

rrsagent, plase make minutes world-readable

15:51:34 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'plase make minutes world-readable', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:51:35 [Zakim]

-iv_an_ru

15:51:36 [LeeF]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

15:51:43 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please make minutes world-readable

15:51:43 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make minutes world-readable', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:51:51 [LeeF]

s/minutes/logs

15:52:00 [LeeF]

s/readable/access

15:52:11 [AndyS]

rrsagent, make miutes world-access

15:52:11 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make miutes world-access', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:52:15 [AndyS]

rrsagent, make minutes world-access

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-access', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:52:28 [LeeF]

logs :-)

15:52:37 [AndyS]

rrsagent, make logs world-access

15:52:47 [ericP]

tada!

15:52:54 [AndyS]

zakim, please leave

15:52:54 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were EricP, LeeF, AndyS, SteveH, iv_an_ru, Orri, Souri

15:52:54 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg

15:53:00 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please leave

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

I see 20 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-actions.rdf :

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to have first cut of shiny implementation report by 11 Sep [DONE] [1]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-38-44

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Orri and Ivan to publish URL to test service along with a list of tests that aren't handled correctly yet [DONE] [2]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-38-55

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso endpoints [DONE] [4]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-39-31

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to update open-world manifest with mf:requires for open-eq-12 [DONE] [5]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-39-49

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to update Turtle data to have explicit lexical forms and answer Gregory W's mail [DONE] [6]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-40-04

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES] [7]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-40-26

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to put together CR transition request for SPARQL XML format and ericP to publish [CONTINUES] [8]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-41-04

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to write explanatory text saying that, like xsd:inteter and xsd:dateTime, the relative order of simple literals and xsd:strings is not defined here [DONE] [9]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-41-48

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [CONTINUES] [10]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-41-58

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Eric+Andy to identify and collect mf:requires URIs and put in documentation [CONTINUES] [11]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-42-13

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP, AndyS to add the mf:requires labels to the manifest namespace document [CONTINUES] [12]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-42-23

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to incorporate text to fix EBV of illformed numeric literals bug in spec [DONE] [13]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-43-35

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to try to produce a diff from CR to current editor's draft [DONE] [14]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-43-49

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF: Reply to Alan's comment on metadata in SPARQL XML Results format [15]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-48-29

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS: Invent and document an alternative to mf:requires for things that are noteable but not extensions in the test suite [16]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-08-32

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [17]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-09-53

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS: Update vocabulary files and README for test [18]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-12-18

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS: Update manifest for mf:requires [19]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-12-54

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [DONE] [20]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-19-30

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [21]

15:53:00 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-47-28