IRC log of dawg on 2007-09-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:32:27 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:32:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc
14:32:29 [LeeF]
zakim, this is dawg
14:32:29 [Zakim]
ok, LeeF; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM
14:32:34 [LeeF]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:32:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P29, EricP, LeeF
14:32:43 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P29 is me
14:32:43 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:32:56 [LeeF]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0155.html
14:33:03 [LeeF]
Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly
14:33:14 [LeeF]
AndyS, can I interest you in scribing pretty please?
14:33:18 [Zakim]
+??P32
14:33:26 [SteveH]
Zakim, ??P32 is me
14:33:26 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:33:51 [LeeF]
Chair: LeeF
14:34:23 [LeeF]
Scribe: AndyS
14:34:29 [LeeF]
agenda + convene
14:34:33 [LeeF]
agenda + actions
14:34:38 [Zakim]
+??P33
14:34:40 [LeeF]
agenda + metadata in xml result format
14:34:58 [iv_an_ru]
Zakim, P33 is me
14:34:58 [Zakim]
sorry, iv_an_ru, I do not recognize a party named 'P33'
14:35:00 [LeeF]
agenda - 3
14:35:05 [LeeF]
agenda + xml result format
14:35:08 [LeeF]
agenda + protocol testing
14:35:12 [iv_an_ru]
Zakim, ??P33 is me
14:35:12 [Zakim]
+iv_an_ru; got it
14:35:12 [LeeF]
agenda + mf:requires
14:35:15 [LeeF]
agenda + implementation report
14:35:23 [LeeF]
agenda + towards PR
14:35:40 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/att-0134/2007-09-11-dawg-minutes.html minutes from last week
14:35:55 [Zakim]
+??P9
14:36:19 [LeeF]
minutes approved
14:36:25 [AndyS]
Seconded: AndyS
14:36:27 [LeeF]
Regrets: chimezie
14:36:45 [LeeF]
zakim, who's here?
14:36:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, EricP, LeeF, SteveH, iv_an_ru, ??P9
14:36:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, iv_an_ru, AndyS, afs, SteveH, LeeF, ericP
14:37:00 [LeeF]
zakim, ??P9 is Orri
14:37:00 [Zakim]
+Orri; got it
14:37:16 [AndyS]
Meet next week: 25 September
14:37:43 [AndyS]
Regrets in advance: Orri and Ivan
14:37:52 [iv_an_ru]
I agree with moving to CR in advance :)
14:38:10 [AndyS]
LeeF: please track DAWG as we will attempt to plan to move to PR.
14:38:14 [AndyS]
... next week
14:38:27 [AndyS]
Orri: diffs of rq25 are OK
14:38:30 [LeeF]
zakim, take up next agendum
14:38:30 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "convene" taken up [from LeeF]
14:38:33 [Souri]
Souri has joined #dawg
14:38:34 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
14:38:34 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
14:38:35 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:38:37 [LeeF]
zakim, take up next agendum
14:38:37 [Zakim]
2. actions [from LeeF]
14:38:38 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "actions" taken up [from LeeF]
14:38:44 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to have first cut of shiny implementation report by 11 Sep [DONE]
14:38:55 [LeeF]
ACTION: Orri and Ivan to publish URL to test service along with a list of tests that aren't handled correctly yet [DONE]
14:39:10 [LeeF]
ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso
14:39:10 [LeeF]
endpoints
14:39:19 [iv_an_ru]
I'm releasing next version of the test suite today.
14:39:24 [Zakim]
+Souri
14:39:31 [LeeF]
ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso endpoints [DONE]
14:39:38 [LeeF]
action -3
14:39:49 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to update open-world manifest with mf:requires for open-eq-12 [DONE]
14:40:04 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to update Turtle data to have explicit lexical forms and answer Gregory W's mail [DONE]
14:40:17 [AndyS]
and Andy checked the changes
14:40:26 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES]
14:40:59 [AndyS]
LeeF: when we advance, should we prompt IETF harder?
14:41:04 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to put together CR transition request for SPARQL XML format and ericP to publish [CONTINUES]
14:41:33 [AndyS]
EricP: it should just happen
14:41:48 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to write explanatory text saying that, like xsd:inteter and xsd:dateTime, the relative order of simple literals and xsd:strings is not defined here [DONE]
14:41:58 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [CONTINUES]
14:42:13 [LeeF]
ACTION: Eric+Andy to identify and collect mf:requires URIs and put in documentation [CONTINUES]
14:42:23 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP, AndyS to add the mf:requires labels to the manifest namespace document [CONTINUES]
14:43:35 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to incorporate text to fix EBV of illformed numeric literals bug in spec [DONE]
14:43:37 [LeeF]
"""
14:43:38 [LeeF]
The EBV of any literal whose type is xsd:boolean, xsd:string or numeric is false if the lexical form is not valid for that datatype (e.g. "abc"^^xsd:integer).
14:43:39 [LeeF]
"""
14:43:48 [Zakim]
-iv_an_ru
14:43:49 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to try to produce a diff from CR to current editor's draft [DONE]
14:43:57 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
14:43:57 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
14:43:58 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:43:59 [Zakim]
4. xml result format [from LeeF]
14:44:01 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
14:44:01 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "xml result format" taken up [from LeeF]
14:44:18 [Zakim]
+??P7
14:44:31 [iv_an_ru]
Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:44:31 [Zakim]
+iv_an_ru; got it
14:45:39 [LeeF]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-
14:45:39 [LeeF]
dawg-comments/2005Jun/0028.html
14:45:57 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jun/0028.html original comment that prompted <link> element
14:46:02 [AndyS]
LeeF: History of link element and summary of discussions with Alan
14:46:31 [AndyS]
Alan proposes inline metadata to avoid server state.
14:46:42 [ericP]
q+ to note a potential fix to [[• The EBV of any literal whose type is xsd:boolean, xsd:string or numeric is false if the lexical form is not valid for that datatype (e.g. "abc"^^xsd:integer).]]
14:47:01 [AndyS]
... comment is very late in process.
14:47:26 [AndyS]
... would cost another cycle (at least one month).
14:48:01 [AndyS]
LeeF asks for WG support ... none forthcoming.
14:48:29 [AndyS]
ACTION: LeeF: Reply to Alan's comment on metadata in SPARQL XML Results format
14:48:59 [AndyS]
EricP: notes binding of, e.g. SOAP, has features.
14:49:19 [AndyS]
...to support state
14:49:50 [AndyS]
LeeF: status: waiting for W3C approval on process
14:49:54 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
14:49:54 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LeeF
14:50:05 [LeeF]
ack ericp
14:50:05 [Zakim]
ericP, you wanted to note a potential fix to [[• The EBV of any literal whose type is xsd:boolean, xsd:string or numeric is false if the lexical form is not valid for that
14:50:09 [Zakim]
... datatype (e.g. "abc"^^xsd:integer).]]
14:52:20 [LeeF]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq25.html#ebv EBV text (only defined for strings, booleans, numerics)
14:52:29 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
14:52:29 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
14:52:30 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:52:31 [Zakim]
5. protocol testing [from LeeF]
14:53:29 [LeeF]
"Effective boolean value arguments (labeled "xsd:boolean (EBV)" in the operator mapping table below), are coerced to xsd:boolean using the EBV rules in section 11.2.2 ."
14:53:53 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
14:53:53 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "protocol testing" taken up [from LeeF]
14:54:57 [AndyS]
Chair has feedback from implementers about existing HTTP bindings
14:55:12 [AndyS]
... Elias will have the protocol tests running
14:55:30 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0149.html about SOAP versions
14:57:32 [AndyS]
AndyS: Virtuoso have offered to back port to SOAP 1.1
14:58:10 [imitko]
imitko has joined #dawg
14:59:26 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
14:59:26 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
14:59:27 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:59:28 [Zakim]
6. mf:requires [from LeeF]
14:59:29 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
14:59:29 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "mf:requires" taken up [from LeeF]
14:59:59 [LeeF]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JulSep/0147.html beginning documentation of mf:requires
15:00:03 [LeeF]
zakim, who's speaking?
15:00:14 [Zakim]
LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Orri (15%), SteveH (8%)
15:00:41 [SteveH]
there's a lot of background noise here, sorry
15:03:27 [AndyS]
Change to use mf:XsdDateOperation
15:04:08 [AndyS]
mf:IllFormedLiterals -- actually used for tricky bits, not extension
15:05:20 [LeeF]
mf:trickyBitOfSparql ?
15:05:53 [LeeF]
mf:notewell ?
15:07:35 [iv_an_ru]
mf:mayAccessAndReturnUnexpectedDataFromGraphsNotListedInManifest ? :)
15:08:32 [AndyS]
ACTION: AndyS: Invent and document an alternative to mf:requires for things that are noteable but not extensions in the test suite
15:08:44 [LeeF]
mf:LangCaseInsensitivity can be struck
15:09:53 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness
15:11:15 [LeeF]
strike mf:xsd-date-eq-xsd-dateTime
15:11:41 [iv_an_ru]
Don't remember me about datetimes...
15:11:52 [Zakim]
-iv_an_ru
15:12:18 [AndyS]
ACTION: AndyS: Update vocabulary files and README for test
15:12:23 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:12:37 [iv_an_ru]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:12:37 [Zakim]
+iv_an_ru; got it
15:12:47 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
15:12:47 [Zakim]
agendum 6 closed
15:12:48 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:12:50 [Zakim]
7. implementation report [from LeeF]
15:12:51 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
15:12:51 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "implementation report" taken up [from LeeF]
15:12:54 [AndyS]
ACTION: AndyS: Update manifest for mf:requires
15:15:12 [LeeF]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/implementations first draft of implementation report
15:15:13 [AndyS]
LeeF: more results expected
15:16:36 [ericP]
-> http://mouni.local/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/impl_report.pl the SPARQL queries (and surrounding script) for generating the impl report
15:18:08 [AndyS]
EricP: A test passes if ...
15:18:36 [AndyS]
... no tests => green box (??)
15:18:45 [LeeF]
(it's a mistake in the algorithm)
15:18:46 [iv_an_ru]
Why not ?
15:19:05 [AndyS]
... for any facet, there are certain tests associated with it
15:19:30 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [DONE]
15:20:29 [AndyS]
... if two facets on a test, test processor calculates the best match as to which facet is the fail
15:21:06 [AndyS]
... (e.g. already failed elsewhere for one facet => don't mark a failure for other facet)
15:22:54 [AndyS]
LeeF suggests seeking wisdom in reporting coverage
15:25:03 [AndyS]
Steve: can pass some facets without any implementation
15:35:18 [LeeF]
No matter what, I intend to publish _all_ of the data we have
15:35:55 [LeeF]
zakim, close this agendum
15:35:55 [Zakim]
agendum 7 closed
15:35:56 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:35:58 [Zakim]
8. towards PR [from LeeF]
15:35:59 [LeeF]
zakim, next agendum
15:35:59 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "towards PR" taken up [from LeeF]
15:36:23 [LeeF]
"A test suite gives reasonable coverage of the features of the query language."
15:36:42 [LeeF]
"Each identified SPARQL feature has at least two implementations."
15:36:54 [AndyS]
(exit criteria for CR)
15:36:56 [LeeF]
"Relevant media types are registered:"
15:37:08 [LeeF]
"Normative dependencies have been advanced to Proposed Recommendation status:"
15:37:13 [ericP]
HOG++
15:37:44 [AndyS]
Our normative dependences are already at REC (Xquery, F&O)
15:38:54 [AndyS]
Need to decide on "at risk" features: REDUCED, leading numbers in local part of prefixed names
15:39:02 [LeeF]
also: what to do with syntax tests?
15:39:29 [Zakim]
-SteveH
15:39:34 [LeeF]
SteveH, do you implement REDUCED?
15:39:37 [SteveH]
yes
15:39:40 [LeeF]
thx
15:40:13 [iv_an_ru]
I'm implementing REDUCED before Friday, BTW.
15:40:18 [LeeF]
:-)
15:40:22 [AndyS]
Leef: Does anyone want to propose removing REDUCED?
15:40:27 [AndyS]
(silence follows)
15:40:28 [SteveH]
REDUCED is a big optimisation win for me in certain circumstances
15:40:41 [iv_an_ru]
I've found REDUCED very useful for at least one optimization.
15:41:13 [LeeF]
Great, good feedback to have.
15:41:17 [SteveH]
but maybe if I had a streaming DISTINCT impl. it wouldn't be so useful
15:41:40 [AndyS]
There is no "REDUCED" in the test suite.
15:42:01 [iv_an_ru]
REDUCED is especially useful when there's a join between union that is faster when UNION and union that is faster when it's UNION ALL.
15:43:14 [AndyS]
LeeF: Leading digits.
15:43:16 [AndyS]
Several implementions support it
15:43:38 [AndyS]
LeeF: asks for proposals NOT to keep this feature.
15:44:17 [AndyS]
... needs to get into interop report.
15:46:28 [AndyS]
Eric: Min is 4 week in PR.
15:47:28 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request
15:48:09 [AndyS]
Ivan: Mitko has deployed a SOAP 1.1 endpoint
15:48:27 [iv_an_ru]
Andy, I know.
15:49:21 [AndyS]
Souri: working to export RDF_MATCH to SPARQL query engine.
15:51:07 [AndyS]
ADJOURNED
15:51:20 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:51:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-minutes.html AndyS
15:51:20 [Zakim]
-Orri
15:51:24 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:51:25 [LeeF]
:-)
15:51:25 [Zakim]
-Souri
15:51:30 [Zakim]
-LeeF
15:51:34 [AndyS]
rrsagent, plase make minutes world-readable
15:51:34 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'plase make minutes world-readable', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:51:35 [Zakim]
-iv_an_ru
15:51:36 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:51:43 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please make minutes world-readable
15:51:43 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make minutes world-readable', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:51:51 [LeeF]
s/minutes/logs
15:52:00 [LeeF]
s/readable/access
15:52:11 [AndyS]
rrsagent, make miutes world-access
15:52:11 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make miutes world-access', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:52:15 [AndyS]
rrsagent, make minutes world-access
15:52:15 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-access', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:52:28 [LeeF]
logs :-)
15:52:37 [AndyS]
rrsagent, make logs world-access
15:52:47 [ericP]
tada!
15:52:54 [AndyS]
zakim, please leave
15:52:54 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were EricP, LeeF, AndyS, SteveH, iv_an_ru, Orri, Souri
15:52:54 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg
15:53:00 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please leave
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
I see 20 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to have first cut of shiny implementation report by 11 Sep [DONE] [1]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-38-44
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Orri and Ivan to publish URL to test service along with a list of tests that aren't handled correctly yet [DONE] [2]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-38-55
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to try SOAP protocol tests against Joseki and Virtuoso endpoints [DONE] [4]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-39-31
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to update open-world manifest with mf:requires for open-eq-12 [DONE] [5]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-39-49
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to update Turtle data to have explicit lexical forms and answer Gregory W's mail [DONE] [6]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-40-04
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to poke IETF folks about registering SPARQL media types (esp. application/sparql-query) [CONTINUES] [7]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-40-26
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to put together CR transition request for SPARQL XML format and ericP to publish [CONTINUES] [8]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-41-04
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to write explanatory text saying that, like xsd:inteter and xsd:dateTime, the relative order of simple literals and xsd:strings is not defined here [DONE] [9]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-41-48
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [CONTINUES] [10]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-41-58
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Eric+Andy to identify and collect mf:requires URIs and put in documentation [CONTINUES] [11]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-42-13
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP, AndyS to add the mf:requires labels to the manifest namespace document [CONTINUES] [12]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-42-23
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to incorporate text to fix EBV of illformed numeric literals bug in spec [DONE] [13]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-43-35
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to try to produce a diff from CR to current editor's draft [DONE] [14]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-43-49
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF: Reply to Alan's comment on metadata in SPARQL XML Results format [15]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T14-48-29
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS: Invent and document an alternative to mf:requires for things that are noteable but not extensions in the test suite [16]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-08-32
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to check and annotate open-eq-07 and -10 with mf:LangTagAwareness [17]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-09-53
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS: Update vocabulary files and README for test [18]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-12-18
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS: Update manifest for mf:requires [19]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-12-54
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ericP to answer "EBV of invalid numeric literals" email from Arjohn [DONE] [20]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-19-30
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to investigate PR mechanics, put together draft transition request [21]
15:53:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-dawg-irc#T15-47-28