IRC log of rdfa on 2007-09-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:40:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:40:08 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:40:13 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:40:19 [mhausenblas]
zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)
14:40:19 [Zakim]
ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
14:40:29 [mhausenblas]
Meeting: W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-09-06, 15:00 UTC
14:40:37 [mhausenblas]
14:40:44 [mhausenblas]
-> previous 2007-08-30
14:41:54 [mhausenblas]
Chair: Ben
14:41:59 [mhausenblas]
ScribeNick: mhausenblas
14:42:04 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:42:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
14:42:13 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:56:33 [msporny]
msporny has joined #rdfa
14:59:07 [RalphS]
RalphS has joined #rdfa
14:59:58 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:00:06 [Zakim]
15:00:10 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:00:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
15:00:37 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:01:18 [Zakim]
15:02:34 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is msporny
15:02:34 [Zakim]
+msporny; got it
15:02:40 [markbirbeck]
markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:02:48 [Zakim]
15:02:54 [markbirbeck]
zakim, code?
15:02:54 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:03:19 [benadida]
benadida has joined #rdfa
15:03:22 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:03:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
15:03:33 [Zakim]
+ +020876aaaa
15:03:42 [markbirbeck]
zakim, i am aaaa
15:03:42 [Zakim]
+markbirbeck; got it
15:04:08 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who is on the call?
15:04:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Michael_Hausenblas, msporny, Ralph, markbirbeck
15:04:33 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
15:04:40 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:04:42 [Zakim]
15:05:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.395.aabb
15:05:17 [benadida]
zakim, aabb is me
15:05:22 [Zakim]
+benadida; got it
15:06:18 [mhausenblas]
Topic: Action Items
15:06:27 [mhausenblas]
15:08:17 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer to illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in]
15:08:57 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
15:09:05 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 omitting @about [recorded in]
15:09:27 [mhausenblas]
-- done
15:09:33 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 with @rev in place of @rel [recorded in]
15:09:35 [mhausenblas]
-- done
15:09:41 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to write versions of tests 34-36 including all of @src, @href, and @resource [recorded in]
15:09:44 [mhausenblas]
-- done
15:09:52 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben send mail to the TF list when the Primer editors' draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in]
15:09:56 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
15:10:04 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Ralph ask Eric Prud'hommeaux if there's a clever way to write a variant of tests 34-36 without @rel [recorded in]
15:10:12 [mhausenblas]
-- done
15:11:12 [Zakim]
15:11:58 [RalphS]
Ralph: Eric's solution would require us to be able to identify some tests as returning '0' for a Pass result
15:12:12 [RalphS]
... all the current tests expect '1' to be the Pass result
15:12:38 [RalphS]
Michael: with 'ASK' we're checking that the triple exists
15:12:45 [RalphS]
... the expected answer is 'Yes'
15:13:00 [mhausenblas]
15:13:47 [RalphS]
Michael: in the test suite document we could define whether 'Yes' means Pass or Fail
15:14:51 [mhausenblas]
-> RDF Testsuite
15:15:30 [RalphS]
Michael: my proposal is to leave the current test cases as they are and define how we interpret the 'Yes' response
15:15:41 [RalphS]
Mark: for some tests we say 'Yes' means Fail
15:15:52 [RalphS]
Michael: yes, I have to confirm that this is feasible
15:16:05 [RalphS]
... to date we have assume that 'Yes' means Pass
15:17:35 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: Michael make sure to that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no)
15:18:39 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Shane send email to the TF list when the editor's draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in]
15:18:45 [mhausenblas]
-- done
15:18:58 [mhausenblas]
-- really done
15:19:06 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in]
15:19:10 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
15:19:15 [RalphS]
s/to that/to confirm a design for checking that/
15:19:40 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr [and Fabien] and post their implementations to [recorded in]
15:19:52 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
15:20:14 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer [recorded in]
15:20:18 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
15:20:40 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in]
15:21:37 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
15:21:53 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in]
15:21:59 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
15:22:05 [mhausenblas]
Topic: New Test Cases
15:22:12 [mhausenblas]
15:22:13 [RalphS]
scribenick: ralphs
15:22:23 [mhausenblas]
15:23:04 [Ralph]
Ralph has joined #rdfa
15:23:22 [RalphS]
Michael: I updated the foaf:img property names
15:23:53 [RalphS]
Test case 37
15:24:45 [RalphS]
-> test 37
15:25:48 [RalphS]
RESOLVED: test 37 approved
15:26:23 [RalphS]
Michael: tests 38-41 all stem from the same action item; they're the same as 34-37 using @rev instead of @rel
15:26:58 [Zakim]
15:27:00 [Zakim]
15:27:00 [RalphS]
... uses foaf:depicts as that's the inverse of foaf:depiction
15:28:04 [RalphS]
... I tested this with Ivan Herman's implementation and it produced the proposed result
15:28:18 [RalphS]
RESOLVED: test 38 approved
15:29:01 [RalphS]
Ben: typo in test 39; still uses @rel
15:29:14 [ShaneM]
ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:29:28 [RalphS]
... let's hold approval for this until it's fixed
15:29:54 [RalphS]
... same typo problem in test 40
15:31:14 [RalphS]
test case 41
15:31:28 [RalphS]
-> test 41
15:31:45 [RalphS]
RESOLVED: test 41 approved
15:32:05 [RalphS]
Michael: tests 42-45 are same ase 34-37 without @about
15:32:26 [RalphS]
-> test 42
15:33:11 [RalphS]
Ralph: syntactically correct, but are these semantically correct?
15:33:44 [RalphS]
Michael: foaf:img is a relationship between a person and an image
15:33:53 [RalphS]
... these may be semantically questionable
15:34:14 [RalphS]
Mark: could have a screen shot that is an image of the page
15:34:50 [RalphS]
... is foaf:img really restricted to Domain foaf:Person?
15:35:06 [mhausenblas]
15:36:05 [RalphS]
Michael: yes, foaf:img has rdfs:Domain foaf:Person
15:36:26 [Steven]
It contradicts itself
15:36:34 [Steven]
the description says "An image that can be used to represent some thing"
15:36:42 [Steven]
(not some person)
15:36:58 [RalphS]
Ralph: we ought to be able to find some semantically reasonable relationship between the page and the image
15:37:27 [RalphS]
Ben: let's approve these tests based on syntax and assign Michael an action to look for a better property
15:38:30 [RalphS]
ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45
15:38:46 [RalphS]
RESOLVED: test 42 approved, modulo predicate
15:39:01 [RalphS]
-> test 43
15:39:20 [RalphS]
Michael: showing @href overriding @src
15:39:50 [RalphS]
RESOLVED: test 43 approved, modulo predicate
15:40:02 [RalphS]
Mark: how will we confirm the corrected versions of these tests?
15:40:38 [RalphS]
Michael: I have an action, and we'll check when I finish that action
15:41:07 [RalphS]
Mark: we should put these on hold, then, rather than accept them now
15:41:56 [RalphS]
RESOVLED: tests 42-45 put on hold pending identification of a semantically correct predicate
15:42:05 [mhausenblas]
ScribeNick: mhausenblas
15:42:11 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:42:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
15:42:19 [mhausenblas]
Topic: Documents - Thoughts, Reviews
15:42:28 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Where to start?
15:42:36 [mhausenblas]
Steven: Everywhere
15:43:08 [mhausenblas]
Mark: Ivan gave great feedback
15:43:37 [mhausenblas]
Ralph: Which section will be subject to greates change?
15:44:16 [mhausenblas]
Mark: The 'Processing Model' (rules) section is new
15:44:48 [mhausenblas]
... we are now matching all the other sections with this new rules section
15:45:18 [mhausenblas]
... the blue boxes detailed out
15:45:53 [mhausenblas]
... eg @xml:lang in rules it just says it is used
15:46:22 [mhausenblas]
... then in the detailed sections it exaplains how to use it, examples
15:46:35 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:46:52 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Regarding review
15:47:10 [RalphS]
q+ to ask about/suggest a 'latest version' mechanism
15:47:14 [mhausenblas]
... can we start right now, where to start?
15:47:32 [mhausenblas]
Mark: Final changes on next Monday
15:48:54 [mhausenblas]
... all sections may be reviewed, but they'll get ready bit by bit
15:49:47 [mhausenblas]
ack RalphS
15:49:47 [Zakim]
RalphS, you wanted to ask about/suggest a 'latest version' mechanism
15:51:08 [mhausenblas]
Ben: We agreed are while ago that it will be titled "XHTML 1 + RDFa"
15:51:49 [mhausenblas]
Mark: There used to be more generic things in there, but it is getting more specific
15:51:57 [mhausenblas]
... sitll not sure how to name it
15:51:58 [RalphS]
[I see div.issue rendered as light green]
15:52:47 [mhausenblas]
Mark: I focused on the rules, till now
15:53:07 [mhausenblas]
... though we need to discuss it, here
15:53:34 [mhausenblas]
... the idea is that the 'blue boxes' are host language specific
15:54:08 [mhausenblas]
Ralph: Like the approach, but change the subtitle
15:55:05 [mhausenblas]
Ben: RDFa in XHTML 1.1 Syntax as title
15:56:16 [RalphS]
15:56:50 [ShaneM]
we need a short name for the syntax document. It should be xhtml-syntax-rdfa
15:57:47 [ShaneM]
note that currently we are using the shorthame rdfa-syntax
15:58:22 [ShaneM]
but I am sure that is unofficial
15:58:39 [RalphS]
[I suggest xhtml-rdfa-syntax ]
15:59:10 [mhausenblas]
Ralph: To get a short name, the WG needs to trigger it
15:59:36 [RalphS]
s/trigger it/trigger it by making a First Public Working Draft publication request/
16:01:40 [RalphS]
-> primer
16:01:40 [mhausenblas]
Ben: I restructured the Primer
16:01:49 [RalphS]
currently $Id: Overview.xml,v 1.21 2007/09/05 00:35:05 adida Exp $
16:02:35 [mhausenblas]
Ben: the mini-syntax section has been removed
16:03:59 [mhausenblas]
Ben: I am about to change the subtitle
16:05:12 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Manu, I'll take your comments and work them in
16:05:34 [RalphS]
regrets for 13 Sep telecon :(
16:06:22 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Mark promised the Syntax is ready for Tuesday morning
16:06:33 [Steven]
Steven has joined #rdfa
16:08:05 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Let's tentatively say next Friday at 15:00 UTC
16:08:12 [mhausenblas]
... 14 Sep 2007
16:09:05 [mhausenblas]
Topic: Schedule over the next 2 weeks
16:09:15 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Get documents out for review
16:09:28 [mhausenblas]
... everyone in the TF comments on it
16:09:42 [mhausenblas]
... will inform SWD, then and propose to review
16:09:55 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:09:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
16:12:17 [mhausenblas]
Mark: Regarding CURIE []
16:12:53 [mhausenblas]
Michael: Don't know, but if you find it please add it to
16:13:36 [mhausenblas]
Mark: It has gone from @href
16:14:11 [mhausenblas]
... but an extended form is worth having it in there
16:16:21 [mhausenblas]
Ben: [] is just used for disambiguation
16:17:40 [RalphS]
-> issue 4 (Local) blank node identifiers
16:17:52 [RalphS]
[note that issue 4 is marked as resolved]
16:18:04 [benadida]
<div about="#ben" property="foaf:name" content="Ben Adida" rel="foaf:homepage" href="" instanceof="foaf:Person">oy</div>
16:19:13 [benadida]
does this yield:
16:19:19 [benadida]
<#ben> a foaf:Person
16:19:20 [benadida]
16:19:28 [benadida]
<> a foaf:Person
16:19:55 [RalphS]
[I've brought this "what is subject of @instanceof?" up previously and was overruled]
16:22:03 [RalphS]
note that as this is a question we've revisited several time, whatever our conclusion is we should document it in a section of the Primer
16:22:34 [mhausenblas]
Ralph: Need an action to resolve it
16:22:49 [mhausenblas]
... Ben to outline it in the Primer
16:23:18 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Too advanced for the Primer
16:23:29 [mhausenblas]
Ralph: In the Syntax, then?
16:23:40 [mhausenblas]
Ben: I'll have a look at it
16:24:20 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects
16:24:39 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:24:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
16:25:14 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Mission this week is WRITE or REVIEW
16:25:28 [mhausenblas]
Michael: or both ;)
16:25:46 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Thanks everyone - till Friday next week
16:25:58 [Zakim]
16:25:59 [Zakim]
16:26:01 [Zakim]
16:26:02 [Zakim]
16:26:04 [Zakim]
16:26:04 [Zakim]
16:26:08 [mhausenblas]
... and look out for the documents on Tuesday morning!
16:26:11 [Zakim]
16:26:12 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:26:13 [Zakim]
Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, msporny, Ralph, +020876aaaa, markbirbeck, Steven, +1.617.395.aabb, benadida, McCarron, ShaneM
16:26:15 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:26:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
16:26:20 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, list attendees
16:26:20 [Zakim]
sorry, mhausenblas, I don't know what conference this is
16:27:08 [benadida]
benadida has left #rdfa
16:32:20 [mhausenblas]
17:32:51 [RalphS]
zakim, bye
17:32:51 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdfa
17:33:04 [RalphS]
rrsagent, bye
17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in :
17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael make sure to that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [1]
17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [2]
17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects [3]
17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
recorded in