IRC log of rdfa on 2007-09-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:40:08 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
- 14:40:08 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc
- 14:40:13 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #rdfa
- 14:40:19 [mhausenblas]
- zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)
- 14:40:19 [Zakim]
- ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
- 14:40:29 [mhausenblas]
- Meeting: W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-09-06, 15:00 UTC
- 14:40:37 [mhausenblas]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0037.html
- 14:40:44 [mhausenblas]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-08-30
- 14:41:54 [mhausenblas]
- Chair: Ben
- 14:41:59 [mhausenblas]
- ScribeNick: mhausenblas
- 14:42:04 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 14:42:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 14:42:13 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:56:33 [msporny]
- msporny has joined #rdfa
- 14:59:07 [RalphS]
- RalphS has joined #rdfa
- 14:59:58 [Zakim]
- SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
- 15:00:06 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Hausenblas
- 15:00:10 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 15:00:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 15:00:37 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 15:01:18 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:02:34 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, [IPcaller] is msporny
- 15:02:34 [Zakim]
- +msporny; got it
- 15:02:40 [markbirbeck]
- markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
- 15:02:48 [Zakim]
- +Ralph
- 15:02:54 [markbirbeck]
- zakim, code?
- 15:02:54 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
- 15:03:19 [benadida]
- benadida has joined #rdfa
- 15:03:22 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 15:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 15:03:33 [Zakim]
- + +020876aaaa
- 15:03:42 [markbirbeck]
- zakim, i am aaaa
- 15:03:42 [Zakim]
- +markbirbeck; got it
- 15:04:08 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, who is on the call?
- 15:04:08 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Michael_Hausenblas, msporny, Ralph, markbirbeck
- 15:04:33 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 15:04:40 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 15:04:42 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 15:05:07 [Zakim]
- + +1.617.395.aabb
- 15:05:17 [benadida]
- zakim, aabb is me
- 15:05:22 [Zakim]
- +benadida; got it
- 15:06:18 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: Action Items
- 15:06:27 [mhausenblas]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary
- 15:08:17 [mhausenblas]
- [NEW] ACTION: Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer to illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
- 15:08:57 [mhausenblas]
- -- continues
- 15:09:05 [mhausenblas]
- [NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 omitting @about [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
- 15:09:27 [mhausenblas]
- -- done
- 15:09:33 [mhausenblas]
- [NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 with @rev in place of @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
- 15:09:35 [mhausenblas]
- -- done
- 15:09:41 [mhausenblas]
- [NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to write versions of tests 34-36 including all of @src, @href, and @resource [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
- 15:09:44 [mhausenblas]
- -- done
- 15:09:52 [mhausenblas]
- [NEW] ACTION: Ben send mail to the TF list when the Primer editors' draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
- 15:09:56 [mhausenblas]
- -- continues
- 15:10:04 [mhausenblas]
- [NEW] ACTION: Ralph ask Eric Prud'hommeaux if there's a clever way to write a variant of tests 34-36 without @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
- 15:10:12 [mhausenblas]
- -- done
- 15:11:12 [Zakim]
- +McCarron
- 15:11:58 [RalphS]
- Ralph: Eric's solution would require us to be able to identify some tests as returning '0' for a Pass result
- 15:12:12 [RalphS]
- ... all the current tests expect '1' to be the Pass result
- 15:12:38 [RalphS]
- Michael: with 'ASK' we're checking that the triple exists
- 15:12:45 [RalphS]
- ... the expected answer is 'Yes'
- 15:13:00 [mhausenblas]
- -> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#ask
- 15:13:47 [RalphS]
- Michael: in the test suite document we could define whether 'Yes' means Pass or Fail
- 15:14:51 [mhausenblas]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/Overview.html RDF Testsuite
- 15:15:30 [RalphS]
- Michael: my proposal is to leave the current test cases as they are and define how we interpret the 'Yes' response
- 15:15:41 [RalphS]
- Mark: for some tests we say 'Yes' means Fail
- 15:15:52 [RalphS]
- Michael: yes, I have to confirm that this is feasible
- 15:16:05 [RalphS]
- ... to date we have assume that 'Yes' means Pass
- 15:17:35 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION: Michael make sure to that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no)
- 15:18:39 [mhausenblas]
- [NEW] ACTION: Shane send email to the TF list when the editor's draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
- 15:18:45 [mhausenblas]
- -- done
- 15:18:58 [mhausenblas]
- -- really done
- 15:19:06 [mhausenblas]
- [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
- 15:19:10 [mhausenblas]
- -- continues
- 15:19:15 [RalphS]
- s/to that/to confirm a design for checking that/
- 15:19:40 [mhausenblas]
- [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr [and Fabien] and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
- 15:19:52 [mhausenblas]
- -- continues
- 15:20:14 [mhausenblas]
- [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
- 15:20:18 [mhausenblas]
- -- continues
- 15:20:40 [mhausenblas]
- [PENDING] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
- 15:21:37 [mhausenblas]
- -- continues
- 15:21:53 [mhausenblas]
- [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
- 15:21:59 [mhausenblas]
- -- continues
- 15:22:05 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: New Test Cases
- 15:22:12 [mhausenblas]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0040.html
- 15:22:13 [RalphS]
- scribenick: ralphs
- 15:22:23 [mhausenblas]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaTC
- 15:23:04 [Ralph]
- Ralph has joined #rdfa
- 15:23:22 [RalphS]
- Michael: I updated the foaf:img property names
- 15:23:53 [RalphS]
- Test case 37
- 15:24:45 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0037 test 37
- 15:25:48 [RalphS]
- RESOLVED: test 37 approved
- 15:26:23 [RalphS]
- Michael: tests 38-41 all stem from the same action item; they're the same as 34-37 using @rev instead of @rel
- 15:26:58 [Zakim]
- -McCarron
- 15:27:00 [Zakim]
- +ShaneM
- 15:27:00 [RalphS]
- ... uses foaf:depicts as that's the inverse of foaf:depiction
- 15:28:04 [RalphS]
- ... I tested this with Ivan Herman's implementation and it produced the proposed result
- 15:28:18 [RalphS]
- RESOLVED: test 38 approved
- 15:29:01 [RalphS]
- Ben: typo in test 39; still uses @rel
- 15:29:14 [ShaneM]
- ShaneM has joined #rdfa
- 15:29:28 [RalphS]
- ... let's hold approval for this until it's fixed
- 15:29:54 [RalphS]
- ... same typo problem in test 40
- 15:31:14 [RalphS]
- test case 41
- 15:31:28 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0041 test 41
- 15:31:45 [RalphS]
- RESOLVED: test 41 approved
- 15:32:05 [RalphS]
- Michael: tests 42-45 are same ase 34-37 without @about
- 15:32:26 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0042 test 42
- 15:33:11 [RalphS]
- Ralph: syntactically correct, but are these semantically correct?
- 15:33:44 [RalphS]
- Michael: foaf:img is a relationship between a person and an image
- 15:33:53 [RalphS]
- ... these may be semantically questionable
- 15:34:14 [RalphS]
- Mark: could have a screen shot that is an image of the page
- 15:34:50 [RalphS]
- ... is foaf:img really restricted to Domain foaf:Person?
- 15:35:06 [mhausenblas]
- -> http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#term_img
- 15:36:05 [RalphS]
- Michael: yes, foaf:img has rdfs:Domain foaf:Person
- 15:36:26 [Steven]
- It contradicts itself
- 15:36:34 [Steven]
- the description says "An image that can be used to represent some thing"
- 15:36:42 [Steven]
- (not some person)
- 15:36:58 [RalphS]
- Ralph: we ought to be able to find some semantically reasonable relationship between the page and the image
- 15:37:27 [RalphS]
- Ben: let's approve these tests based on syntax and assign Michael an action to look for a better property
- 15:38:30 [RalphS]
- ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45
- 15:38:46 [RalphS]
- RESOLVED: test 42 approved, modulo predicate
- 15:39:01 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0043 test 43
- 15:39:20 [RalphS]
- Michael: showing @href overriding @src
- 15:39:50 [RalphS]
- RESOLVED: test 43 approved, modulo predicate
- 15:40:02 [RalphS]
- Mark: how will we confirm the corrected versions of these tests?
- 15:40:38 [RalphS]
- Michael: I have an action, and we'll check when I finish that action
- 15:41:07 [RalphS]
- Mark: we should put these on hold, then, rather than accept them now
- 15:41:56 [RalphS]
- RESOVLED: tests 42-45 put on hold pending identification of a semantically correct predicate
- 15:42:05 [mhausenblas]
- ScribeNick: mhausenblas
- 15:42:11 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 15:42:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 15:42:19 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: Documents - Thoughts, Reviews
- 15:42:28 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Where to start?
- 15:42:36 [mhausenblas]
- Steven: Everywhere
- 15:43:08 [mhausenblas]
- Mark: Ivan gave great feedback
- 15:43:37 [mhausenblas]
- Ralph: Which section will be subject to greates change?
- 15:44:16 [mhausenblas]
- Mark: The 'Processing Model' (rules) section is new
- 15:44:48 [mhausenblas]
- ... we are now matching all the other sections with this new rules section
- 15:45:18 [mhausenblas]
- ... the blue boxes detailed out
- 15:45:53 [mhausenblas]
- ... eg @xml:lang in rules it just says it is used
- 15:46:22 [mhausenblas]
- ... then in the detailed sections it exaplains how to use it, examples
- 15:46:35 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 15:46:52 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Regarding review
- 15:47:10 [RalphS]
- q+ to ask about/suggest a 'latest version' mechanism
- 15:47:14 [mhausenblas]
- ... can we start right now, where to start?
- 15:47:32 [mhausenblas]
- Mark: Final changes on next Monday
- 15:48:54 [mhausenblas]
- ... all sections may be reviewed, but they'll get ready bit by bit
- 15:49:47 [mhausenblas]
- ack RalphS
- 15:49:47 [Zakim]
- RalphS, you wanted to ask about/suggest a 'latest version' mechanism
- 15:51:08 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: We agreed are while ago that it will be titled "XHTML 1 + RDFa"
- 15:51:49 [mhausenblas]
- Mark: There used to be more generic things in there, but it is getting more specific
- 15:51:57 [mhausenblas]
- ... sitll not sure how to name it
- 15:51:58 [RalphS]
- [I see div.issue rendered as light green]
- 15:52:47 [mhausenblas]
- Mark: I focused on the rules, till now
- 15:53:07 [mhausenblas]
- ... though we need to discuss it, here
- 15:53:34 [mhausenblas]
- ... the idea is that the 'blue boxes' are host language specific
- 15:54:08 [mhausenblas]
- Ralph: Like the approach, but change the subtitle
- 15:55:05 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: RDFa in XHTML 1.1 Syntax as title
- 15:56:16 [RalphS]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/
- 15:56:50 [ShaneM]
- we need a short name for the syntax document. It should be xhtml-syntax-rdfa
- 15:57:47 [ShaneM]
- note that currently we are using the shorthame rdfa-syntax
- 15:58:22 [ShaneM]
- but I am sure that is unofficial
- 15:58:39 [RalphS]
- [I suggest xhtml-rdfa-syntax ]
- 15:59:10 [mhausenblas]
- Ralph: To get a short name, the WG needs to trigger it
- 15:59:36 [RalphS]
- s/trigger it/trigger it by making a First Public Working Draft publication request/
- 16:01:40 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/ primer
- 16:01:40 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: I restructured the Primer
- 16:01:49 [RalphS]
- currently $Id: Overview.xml,v 1.21 2007/09/05 00:35:05 adida Exp $
- 16:02:35 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: the mini-syntax section has been removed
- 16:03:59 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: I am about to change the subtitle
- 16:05:12 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Manu, I'll take your comments and work them in
- 16:05:34 [RalphS]
- regrets for 13 Sep telecon :(
- 16:06:22 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Mark promised the Syntax is ready for Tuesday morning
- 16:06:33 [Steven]
- Steven has joined #rdfa
- 16:08:05 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Let's tentatively say next Friday at 15:00 UTC
- 16:08:12 [mhausenblas]
- ... 14 Sep 2007
- 16:09:05 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: Schedule over the next 2 weeks
- 16:09:15 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Get documents out for review
- 16:09:28 [mhausenblas]
- ... everyone in the TF comments on it
- 16:09:42 [mhausenblas]
- ... will inform SWD, then and propose to review
- 16:09:55 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:09:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 16:12:17 [mhausenblas]
- Mark: Regarding CURIE []
- 16:12:53 [mhausenblas]
- Michael: Don't know, but if you find it please add it to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa/Resolutions
- 16:13:36 [mhausenblas]
- Mark: It has gone from @href
- 16:14:11 [mhausenblas]
- ... but an extended form is worth having it in there
- 16:16:21 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: [] is just used for disambiguation
- 16:17:40 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/4 issue 4 (Local) blank node identifiers
- 16:17:52 [RalphS]
- [note that issue 4 is marked as resolved]
- 16:18:04 [benadida]
- <div about="#ben" property="foaf:name" content="Ben Adida" rel="foaf:homepage" href="http://ben.adida.net" instanceof="foaf:Person">oy</div>
- 16:19:13 [benadida]
- does this yield:
- 16:19:19 [benadida]
- <#ben> a foaf:Person
- 16:19:20 [benadida]
- or
- 16:19:28 [benadida]
- <http://ben.adida.net> a foaf:Person
- 16:19:55 [RalphS]
- [I've brought this "what is subject of @instanceof?" up previously and was overruled]
- 16:22:03 [RalphS]
- note that as this is a question we've revisited several time, whatever our conclusion is we should document it in a section of the Primer
- 16:22:34 [mhausenblas]
- Ralph: Need an action to resolve it
- 16:22:49 [mhausenblas]
- ... Ben to outline it in the Primer
- 16:23:18 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Too advanced for the Primer
- 16:23:29 [mhausenblas]
- Ralph: In the Syntax, then?
- 16:23:40 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: I'll have a look at it
- 16:24:20 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects
- 16:24:39 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:24:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 16:25:14 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Mission this week is WRITE or REVIEW
- 16:25:28 [mhausenblas]
- Michael: or both ;)
- 16:25:46 [mhausenblas]
- Ben: Thanks everyone - till Friday next week
- 16:25:58 [Zakim]
- -msporny
- 16:25:59 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 16:26:01 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Hausenblas
- 16:26:02 [Zakim]
- -markbirbeck
- 16:26:04 [Zakim]
- -ShaneM
- 16:26:04 [Zakim]
- -Ralph
- 16:26:08 [mhausenblas]
- ... and look out for the documents on Tuesday morning!
- 16:26:11 [Zakim]
- -benadida
- 16:26:12 [Zakim]
- SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
- 16:26:13 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, msporny, Ralph, +020876aaaa, markbirbeck, Steven, +1.617.395.aabb, benadida, McCarron, ShaneM
- 16:26:15 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:26:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 16:26:20 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:26:20 [Zakim]
- sorry, mhausenblas, I don't know what conference this is
- 16:27:08 [benadida]
- benadida has left #rdfa
- 16:32:20 [mhausenblas]
- quite
- 17:32:51 [RalphS]
- zakim, bye
- 17:32:51 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #rdfa
- 17:33:04 [RalphS]
- rrsagent, bye
- 17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
- I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-actions.rdf :
- 17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Michael make sure to that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [1]
- 17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc#T15-17-35
- 17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [2]
- 17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc#T15-38-30
- 17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects [3]
- 17:33:04 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc#T16-24-20