14:40:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:40:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc
14:40:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:40:19 <mhausenblas> zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)
14:40:19 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
14:40:29 <mhausenblas> Meeting: W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-09-06, 15:00 UTC 
14:40:37 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0037.html
14:40:44 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-08-30 
14:41:54 <mhausenblas> Chair: Ben
14:41:59 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
14:42:04 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:42:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
14:42:13 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:56:33 <msporny> msporny has joined #rdfa
14:59:07 <RalphS> RalphS has joined #rdfa
14:59:58 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:00:06 <Zakim> +Michael_Hausenblas
15:00:10 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
15:00:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:00:37 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:01:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:34 <mhausenblas> Zakim, [IPcaller] is msporny
15:02:34 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
15:02:40 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:02:48 <Zakim> +Ralph
15:02:54 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
15:02:54 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:03:19 <benadida> benadida has joined #rdfa
15:03:22 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:03:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:03:33 <Zakim> + +020876aaaa
15:03:42 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aaaa
15:03:42 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
15:04:08 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who is on the call?
15:04:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Hausenblas, msporny, Ralph, markbirbeck
15:04:33 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:04:40 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:04:42 <Zakim> +Steven
15:05:07 <Zakim> + +1.617.395.aabb
15:05:17 <benadida> zakim, aabb is me
15:05:22 <Zakim> +benadida; got it
15:06:18 <mhausenblas> Topic: Action Items
15:06:27 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary
15:08:17 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer to illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
15:08:57 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:09:05 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 omitting @about [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
15:09:27 <mhausenblas> -- done
15:09:33 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 with @rev in place of @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
15:09:35 <mhausenblas> -- done
15:09:41 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to write versions of tests 34-36 including all of @src, @href, and @resource [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
15:09:44 <mhausenblas> -- done
15:09:52 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben send mail to the TF list when the Primer editors' draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
15:09:56 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:10:04 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ralph ask Eric Prud'hommeaux if there's a clever way to write a variant of tests 34-36 without @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
15:10:12 <mhausenblas> -- done
15:11:12 <Zakim> +McCarron
15:11:58 <RalphS> Ralph: Eric's solution would require us to be able to identify some tests as returning '0' for a Pass result
15:12:12 <RalphS> ... all the current tests expect '1' to be the Pass result
15:12:38 <RalphS> Michael: with 'ASK' we're checking that the triple exists
15:12:45 <RalphS> ... the expected answer is 'Yes'
15:13:00 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#ask
15:13:47 <RalphS> Michael: in the test suite document we could define whether 'Yes' means Pass or Fail
15:14:51 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/Overview.html RDF Testsuite
15:15:30 <RalphS> Michael: my proposal is to leave the current test cases as they are and define how we interpret the 'Yes' response
15:15:41 <RalphS> Mark: for some tests we say 'Yes' means Fail
15:15:52 <RalphS> Michael: yes, I have to confirm that this is feasible
15:16:05 <RalphS> ... to date we have assume that 'Yes' means Pass
15:17:35 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Michael make sure to that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no)
15:18:39 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Shane send email to the TF list when the editor's draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
15:18:45 <mhausenblas> -- done
15:18:58 <mhausenblas> -- really done
15:19:06 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
15:19:10 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:19:15 <RalphS> s/to that/to confirm a design for checking that/
15:19:40 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr [and Fabien] and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
15:19:52 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:20:14 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
15:20:18 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:20:40 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
15:21:37 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:21:53 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
15:21:59 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:22:05 <mhausenblas> Topic: New Test Cases
15:22:12 <mhausenblas> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0040.html
15:22:13 <RalphS> scribenick: ralphs
15:22:23 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaTC
15:23:04 <Ralph> Ralph has joined #rdfa
15:23:22 <RalphS> Michael: I updated the foaf:img property names
15:23:53 <RalphS> Test case 37
15:24:45 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0037 test 37
15:25:48 <RalphS> RESOLVED: test 37 approved
15:26:23 <RalphS> Michael: tests 38-41 all stem from the same action item; they're the same as 34-37 using @rev instead of @rel
15:26:58 <Zakim> -McCarron
15:27:00 <Zakim> +ShaneM
15:27:00 <RalphS> ... uses foaf:depicts as that's the inverse of foaf:depiction
15:28:04 <RalphS> ... I tested this with Ivan Herman's implementation and it produced the proposed result
15:28:18 <RalphS> RESOLVED: test 38 approved
15:29:01 <RalphS> Ben: typo in test 39; still uses @rel
15:29:14 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:29:28 <RalphS> ... let's hold approval for this until it's fixed
15:29:54 <RalphS> ... same typo problem in test 40
15:31:14 <RalphS> test case 41
15:31:28 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0041 test 41
15:31:45 <RalphS> RESOLVED: test 41 approved
15:32:05 <RalphS> Michael: tests 42-45 are same ase 34-37 without @about
15:32:26 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0042 test 42
15:33:11 <RalphS> Ralph: syntactically correct, but are these semantically correct?
15:33:44 <RalphS> Michael: foaf:img is a relationship between a person and an image
15:33:53 <RalphS> ... these may be semantically questionable
15:34:14 <RalphS> Mark: could have a screen shot that is an image of the page
15:34:50 <RalphS> ... is foaf:img really restricted to Domain foaf:Person?
15:35:06 <mhausenblas> -> http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#term_img
15:36:05 <RalphS> Michael: yes, foaf:img has rdfs:Domain foaf:Person
15:36:26 <Steven> It contradicts itself
15:36:34 <Steven> the description says "An image that can be used to represent some thing"
15:36:42 <Steven> (not some person)
15:36:58 <RalphS> Ralph: we ought to be able to find some semantically reasonable relationship between the page and the image
15:37:27 <RalphS> Ben: let's approve these tests based on syntax and assign Michael an action to look for a better property
15:38:30 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45
15:38:46 <RalphS> RESOLVED: test 42 approved, modulo predicate
15:39:01 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0043 test 43
15:39:20 <RalphS> Michael: showing @href overriding @src
15:39:50 <RalphS> RESOLVED: test 43 approved, modulo predicate
15:40:02 <RalphS> Mark: how will we confirm the corrected versions of these tests?
15:40:38 <RalphS> Michael: I have an action, and we'll check when I finish that action
15:41:07 <RalphS> Mark: we should put these on hold, then, rather than accept them now
15:41:56 <RalphS> RESOVLED: tests 42-45 put on hold pending identification of a semantically correct predicate
15:42:05 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
15:42:11 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:42:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:42:19 <mhausenblas> Topic: Documents - Thoughts, Reviews
15:42:28 <mhausenblas> Ben: Where to start?
15:42:36 <mhausenblas> Steven: Everywhere
15:43:08 <mhausenblas> Mark: Ivan gave great feedback
15:43:37 <mhausenblas> Ralph: Which section will be subject to greates change?
15:44:16 <mhausenblas> Mark: The 'Processing Model'  (rules) section is new
15:44:48 <mhausenblas> ... we are now matching all the other sections with this new rules section
15:45:18 <mhausenblas> ... the blue boxes detailed out
15:45:53 <mhausenblas> ... eg @xml:lang in rules it just says it is used
15:46:22 <mhausenblas> ... then in the detailed sections it exaplains how to use it, examples
15:46:35 <mhausenblas>  RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:46:52 <mhausenblas> Ben: Regarding review
15:47:10 <RalphS> q+ to ask about/suggest a 'latest version' mechanism
15:47:14 <mhausenblas> ... can we start right now, where to start?
15:47:32 <mhausenblas> Mark: Final changes on next Monday
15:48:54 <mhausenblas> ... all sections may be reviewed, but they'll get ready bit by bit
15:49:47 <mhausenblas> ack RalphS
15:49:47 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to ask about/suggest a 'latest version' mechanism
15:51:08 <mhausenblas> Ben: We agreed are while ago that it will be titled "XHTML 1 + RDFa"
15:51:49 <mhausenblas> Mark: There used to be more generic things in there, but it is getting more specific
15:51:57 <mhausenblas> ... sitll not sure how to name it
15:51:58 <RalphS> [I see div.issue rendered as light green]
15:52:47 <mhausenblas> Mark: I focused on the rules, till now
15:53:07 <mhausenblas> ... though we need to discuss it, here
15:53:34 <mhausenblas> ... the idea is that the 'blue boxes' are host language specific
15:54:08 <mhausenblas> Ralph: Like the approach, but change the subtitle
15:55:05 <mhausenblas> Ben: RDFa in XHTML 1.1 Syntax as title
15:56:16 <RalphS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/
15:56:50 <ShaneM>  we need a short name for the syntax document.  It should be xhtml-syntax-rdfa
15:57:47 <ShaneM>  note that currently we are using the shorthame rdfa-syntax
15:58:22 <ShaneM>  but I am sure that is unofficial
15:58:39 <RalphS> [I suggest xhtml-rdfa-syntax ]
15:59:10 <mhausenblas> Ralph: To get a short name, the WG needs to trigger it
15:59:36 <RalphS> s/trigger it/trigger it by making a First Public Working Draft publication request/
16:01:40 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/ primer
16:01:40 <mhausenblas> Ben: I restructured the Primer
16:01:49 <RalphS> currently  $Id: 06-rdfa-irc.txt,v 1.47 2007/09/06 17:33:16 swick Exp $
16:02:35 <mhausenblas> Ben: the mini-syntax section has been removed
16:03:59 <mhausenblas> Ben: I am about to change the subtitle
16:05:12 <mhausenblas> Ben: Manu, I'll take your comments and work them in
16:05:34 <RalphS> regrets for 13 Sep telecon :(
16:06:22 <mhausenblas> Ben: Mark promised the Syntax is ready for Tuesday morning
16:06:33 <Steven> Steven has joined #rdfa
16:08:05 <mhausenblas> Ben: Let's tentatively say next Friday at 15:00 UTC
16:08:12 <mhausenblas> ... 14 Sep 2007
16:09:05 <mhausenblas> Topic: Schedule over the next 2 weeks
16:09:15 <mhausenblas> Ben: Get documents out for review
16:09:28 <mhausenblas> ... everyone in the TF comments on it
16:09:42 <mhausenblas> ... will inform SWD, then and propose to review
16:09:55 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
16:09:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:12:17 <mhausenblas> Mark: Regarding CURIE []
16:12:53 <mhausenblas> Michael: Don't know, but if you find it please add it to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa/Resolutions
16:13:36 <mhausenblas> Mark: It has gone from @href
16:14:11 <mhausenblas> ... but an extended form is worth having it in there
16:16:21 <mhausenblas> Ben: [] is just used for disambiguation
16:17:40 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/4 issue 4 (Local) blank node identifiers
16:17:52 <RalphS> [note that issue 4 is marked as resolved]
16:18:04 <benadida> <div about="#ben" property="foaf:name" content="Ben Adida" rel="foaf:homepage" href="http://ben.adida.net" instanceof="foaf:Person">oy</div>
16:19:13 <benadida> does this yield:
16:19:19 <benadida> <#ben> a foaf:Person
16:19:20 <benadida> or
16:19:28 <benadida> <http://ben.adida.net> a foaf:Person
16:19:55 <RalphS> [I've brought this "what is subject of @instanceof?" up previously and was overruled]
16:22:03 <RalphS> note that as this is a question we've revisited several time, whatever our conclusion is we should document it in a section of the Primer
16:22:34 <mhausenblas> Ralph: Need an action to resolve it
16:22:49 <mhausenblas> ... Ben to outline it in the Primer
16:23:18 <mhausenblas> Ben: Too advanced for the Primer
16:23:29 <mhausenblas> Ralph: In the Syntax, then?
16:23:40 <mhausenblas> Ben: I'll have a look at it
16:24:20 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects
16:24:39 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:24:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:25:14 <mhausenblas> Ben: Mission this week is WRITE or REVIEW
16:25:28 <mhausenblas> Michael: or both ;)
16:25:46 <mhausenblas> Ben: Thanks everyone - till Friday next week
16:25:58 <Zakim> -msporny
16:25:59 <Zakim> -Steven
16:26:01 <Zakim> -Michael_Hausenblas
16:26:02 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
16:26:04 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:26:04 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:26:08 <mhausenblas> ... and look out for the documents on Tuesday morning!
16:26:11 <Zakim> -benadida
16:26:12 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:26:13 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, msporny, Ralph, +020876aaaa, markbirbeck, Steven, +1.617.395.aabb, benadida, McCarron, ShaneM
16:26:15 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
16:26:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:26:20 <mhausenblas> Zakim, list attendees
16:26:20 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I don't know what conference this is
16:27:08 <benadida> benadida has left #rdfa
16:32:20 <mhausenblas> quite
17:32:51 <RalphS> zakim, bye
17:32:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
17:33:04 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
17:33:04 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-actions.rdf :
17:33:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael make sure to that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [1]
17:33:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc#T15-17-35
17:33:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [2]
17:33:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc#T15-38-30
17:33:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects [3]
17:33:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc#T16-24-20