IRC log of grddl-wg on 2007-09-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:37 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg

14:59:37 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/05-grddl-wg-irc

15:00:10 [danja]

danja has joined #grddl-wg

15:00:18 [HarryH]

HarryH has changed the topic to: GRDDL WG Sept 5

15:02:04 [Zakim]

SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has now started

15:02:11 [Zakim]

+john-l

15:02:46 [HarryH]

Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda

15:02:46 [Zakim]

working on it, HarryH

15:02:47 [Zakim]

agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-09-04T11:00-0400

15:02:48 [Zakim]

agendum 10 added

15:02:50 [Zakim]

agenda+ Community Survey, Quick Reference (GRDDL Outreach)

15:02:53 [Zakim]

agendum 11 added

15:02:54 [Zakim]

agenda+ Atom, XML Vocabularies (GRDDL Outreach)

15:02:57 [Zakim]

agendum 12 added

15:02:58 [Zakim]

agenda+ W3C GRDDL Service

15:02:59 [Zakim]

agendum 13 added

15:03:00 [Zakim]

agenda+ Relationship to XHTML 2 and HTML 5: head/@profile at risk

15:03:03 [Zakim]

agendum 14 added

15:03:05 [Zakim]

agenda+ GRDDL Wrap-Up

15:03:11 [Zakim]

agendum 15 added

15:03:15 [Zakim]

done reading agenda, HarryH

15:03:17 [Zakim]

+??P29

15:03:29 [john-l]

Zakim, ??P29 is jjc

15:03:29 [Zakim]

+jjc; got it

15:03:54 [Zakim]

+Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:03:59 [jjc]

jjc has joined #grddl-wg

15:04:03 [chimezie]

chimezie has joined #grddl-wg

15:04:26 [Zakim]

+??P4

15:04:33 [Simone]

Zakim, ??P4 is me

15:04:33 [Zakim]

+Simone; got it

15:06:39 [chimezie]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:06:40 [Zakim]

On the phone I see john-l, jjc, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Simone

15:08:04 [Zakim]

+HarryH

15:08:49 [HarryH]

chair: HarryH

15:08:53 [HarryH]

scribe: john-l

15:08:59 [HarryH]

regrets: jjc, murray

15:09:09 [Simone]

Zakim, mute me

15:09:09 [Zakim]

Simone should now be muted

15:09:11 [HarryH]

regrets: murray

15:09:18 [jjc]

huge amounts of noise

15:09:32 [jjc]

it's better

15:09:46 [HarryH]

Zakim, next item

15:09:46 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "Dublin Core, Microformat Profiles (GRDDL Outreach)" taken up

15:10:10 [Zakim]

+??P12

15:10:31 [danja]

Zakim, ??P12 is me

15:10:31 [Zakim]

+danja; got it

15:11:18 [john-l]

HarryH: There is some interest in pursuing certain things...

15:11:26 [john-l]

... such as XSLT for microformats,

15:11:27 [HarryH]

Zakim, next item

15:11:27 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "W3C GRDDL Service" taken up

15:11:36 [john-l]

... and possibly some good ideas for WSGI mapping.

15:11:39 [Zakim]

+DanC

15:11:41 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 2

15:11:41 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Standard Library Transform" taken up

15:11:56 [HarryH]

Zakim, clear agenda

15:11:56 [Zakim]

agenda cleared

15:12:11 [HarryH]

Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda

15:12:11 [Zakim]

working on it, HarryH

15:12:12 [Zakim]

agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-09-04T11:00-0400

15:12:15 [Zakim]

agendum 1 added

15:12:16 [Zakim]

agenda+ Community Survey, Quick Reference (GRDDL Outreach)

15:12:19 [Zakim]

agendum 2 added

15:12:20 [Zakim]

agenda+ Atom, XML Vocabularies (GRDDL Outreach)

15:12:21 [Zakim]

agendum 3 added

15:12:23 [Zakim]

agenda+ W3C GRDDL Service

15:12:24 [Zakim]

agendum 4 added

15:12:25 [Zakim]

agenda+ Relationship to XHTML 2 and HTML 5: head/@profile at risk

15:12:26 [Zakim]

agendum 5 added

15:12:27 [Zakim]

agenda+ GRDDL Wrap-Up

15:12:28 [Zakim]

agendum 6 added

15:12:29 [Zakim]

done reading agenda, HarryH

15:12:37 [john-l]

HarryH: Update on Atom?

15:12:52 [john-l]

danja: There isn't a transformation that's quite ready yet.

15:12:52 [danja]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JulSep/0052.html

15:12:58 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 2

15:12:58 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Community Survey, Quick Reference (GRDDL Outreach)" taken up

15:13:02 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 3

15:13:02 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Atom, XML Vocabularies (GRDDL Outreach)" taken up

15:13:50 [john-l]

... I'm thinking of backporting Henry Story's XSLT 2 to XSLT 1.

15:14:36 [john-l]

... One of the problems is that you can have multiple atom:entry elements with the same atom:id, which would be lost in RSS.

15:15:28 [john-l]

... Everything that wouldn't map to something obvious like Dublin Core seems to require a custom vocab (as opposed to RSS).

15:16:20 [john-l]

... There are also questions about how to deal with Atom's extensibility.

15:16:47 [john-l]

... Complex extensibility may need to be skipped.

15:17:52 [john-l]

Harry: Huge political issues?

15:18:12 [john-l]

danja: I'd be worried about a translation to RSS as it might be misinterpreted as "use RSS 1".

15:18:21 [john-l]

... I don't think it's a huge issue.

15:18:47 [DanC]

q+ to get sync'd

15:18:58 [john-l]

q+ to toss in his $.02

15:19:00 [HarryH]

ack DanC

15:19:00 [Zakim]

DanC, you wanted to get sync'd

15:20:08 [HarryH]

ACTION: [CONTINUES]danja and john-l to test and see if any XSLT is mature enough to add to ATOM namespace doc and has proper licensing (W3C Software license), as well as canvass all candidate XSLT authors for their opinion on ATOM/RSS 1.0 namespace.

15:20:14 [HarryH]

ack john-l

15:20:14 [Zakim]

john-l, you wanted to toss in his $.02

15:20:42 [DanC]

(questions like whether a GRDDL txform for Atom should support round-tripping show that this task is big enough to merit its own use-cases/requirements document, meeting series, etc.)

15:21:27 [john-l]

DanC: XG for talking about Atom RDF schema?

15:21:51 [john-l]

... CCF, Talis, and Harry's employer, possibly.

15:22:08 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 1

15:22:08 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-09-04T11:00-0400" taken up

15:22:18 [HarryH]

next meeting?

15:22:27 [danja]

(Henry Story works for Sun - I'm guessing they're w3c members)

15:23:31 [john-l]

DanC: The rec is in the hands of the directory, but the director's this amorphous blob...

15:23:49 [john-l]

s/directory/director/

15:25:40 [john-l]

DanC: Groups should continue to meet for ~ 6 months after Rec.

15:25:54 [john-l]

... Those meetings should be scheduled, but not necessarily frequent.

15:25:57 [DanC]

s/the directory/The Director/

15:26:13 [john-l]

... I recommend keeping the 12 September meeting.

15:26:35 [HarryH]

RESOLVED: Meeting Sept. 12th scribe Chime

15:27:31 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 4

15:27:31 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "W3C GRDDL Service" taken up

15:27:51 [john-l]

DanC: Yay, we have a GRDDL service!

15:28:00 [HarryH]

yay!

15:28:04 [danja]

wheeee!

15:28:04 [john-l]

HarryH: Should we push to hook that up to the HTML validation service?

15:28:14 [DanC]

new svc http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Aug/0040.html

15:28:20 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2007/08/grddl/

15:29:07 [john-l]

DanC: Has anyone tried to run the whole test suite against this thing?

15:29:23 [john-l]

danja: I think I've blogged about it, but I could always write more.

15:29:29 [danja]

:-)

15:30:34 [john-l]

DanC: The people who want GRDDL know they want GRDDL.

15:31:33 [john-l]

HarryH: Useful for advertising the GRDDL service.

15:32:18 [john-l]

... Also convenience.

15:33:06 [john-l]

chimezie: Both human readable and machine readable data in one place.

15:33:15 [john-l]

DanC: More detail?

15:33:40 [DanC]

Zakim, who's talking?

15:33:51 [Zakim]

DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: HarryH (5%), DanC (69%)

15:34:04 [john-l]

I have a crazy one: automatically returning validity reports.

15:35:26 [danja]

http://www.dopplr.com

15:35:31 [john-l]

DanC: Dopplr links up friends who are traveling. When signing up for these services, they can glean data from your previously existing microformats instances.

15:36:00 [DanC]

http://del.icio.us/connolly/Oxford

15:36:18 [DanC]

http://del.icio.us/connolly/Chicago

15:36:29 [danja]

(dopplr built by Matt Biddulph - has done semwebishness in the past - think he was involved in the BBC catalogue RDF exposure)

15:36:41 [DanC]

http://flickr.com/photos/vistamonster/1278291316/in/pool-aeachicago07/

15:37:54 [DanC]

http://flickr.com/photos/talkinhonky/1259671699/

15:39:28 [john-l]

DanC: I think it would be cool if the RDF validator had GRDDL built-in.

15:40:17 [john-l]

... So you could point it at a web page and validate its RDF directly.

15:40:27 [HarryH]

jjc?

15:40:51 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 5

15:40:51 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Relationship to XHTML 2 and HTML 5: head/@profile at risk" taken up

15:41:28 [john-l]

HarryH: New stuff from the XHTML WG, URI forthcoming...

15:43:37 [DanC]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Sep/0002.html

15:43:59 [john-l]

What prevents folks from GRDDLing XHTML using the XML declaration mechanism? Simply the desire to have XHTML validity?

15:44:41 [HarryH]

ACTION:

15:44:53 [john-l]

DanC: We object; GRDDL doesn't allow any wiggle room, and the syntax has been stable for a long time.

15:45:00 [dbooth]

dbooth has joined #grddl-wg

15:45:00 [HarryH]

ACTION: HarryH to tell XHTML2 WG to not change syntax

15:45:33 [dbooth]

zakim, code?

15:45:33 [Zakim]

the conference code is 47335 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dbooth

15:45:39 [john-l]

DanC: You can't point to a profile via that mechanism.

15:45:45 [Zakim]

+DBooth

15:46:15 [DanC]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

15:46:18 [DanC]

RRSAgent, pointer?

15:46:18 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2007/09/05-grddl-wg-irc#T15-46-18

15:46:20 [john-l]

chimezie: Yes, using the XML mechanism would not be compatible with XHTML 2.

15:46:37 [chimezie]

I don't think we can fight the good fight in all the relevant specs, but people *will* decide for themselves if validity is more important thatn having useful metadata

15:46:40 [DanC]

(the systems guys fixed the chacl latency, FYI.)

15:46:48 [john-l]

chimezie: It wouldn't be valid.

15:47:12 [dbooth]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:47:12 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/05-grddl-wg-minutes.html dbooth

15:47:21 [john-l]

chimezie: But I think sidestepping validity will happen if they really need RDF.

15:48:10 [HarryH]

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Chime to comment to XHTML2 comment list about preserving head/@profile re GRDDL and backwards-compatibility.

15:48:11 [john-l]

And of course, people can always expand the definition of validity by imposing a slightly broader schema.

15:48:15 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 6

15:48:15 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "GRDDL Wrap-Up" taken up

15:48:32 [DanC]

(oops; can we talk about ACTION: DanC to remove base param from online GRDDL service and home2rss.xsl ?)

15:50:06 [DanC]

ACTION DanC: get GRDDL service to offer text/n3 and text/plain for turtle

15:50:16 [john-l]

DanC: What happens when we run the W3C home page through the GRDDL service?

15:50:47 [john-l]

... seems like home2rss.xsl is working in that case.

15:50:50 [dbooth]

Meeting: GRDDL Teleconference

15:50:51 [HarryH]

ACTION: [DONE] DanC to remove base param from online GRDDL service and home2rss.xsl

15:51:11 [dbooth]

zakim, who is here?

15:51:11 [Zakim]

On the phone I see john-l, jjc, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Simone (muted), HarryH, danja, DanC, DBooth

15:51:14 [Zakim]

On IRC I see dbooth, chimezie, jjc, danja, RRSAgent, john-l, HarryH, Simone, briansuda, DanC, Zakim

15:51:21 [HarryH]

Send me more tutorials and links

15:52:40 [danja]

see also: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/InfoGathering/RecommendedTutorials

15:53:31 [HarryH]

Simone, logo update?

15:53:50 [Simone]

Simone: not also, so we are waiting from W3C comm team for all Semantic Web logos

15:53:56 [jjc]

jjc has joined #grddl-wg

15:53:56 [DanC]

Simone, I talked with Ian Jacobs about semantic web logs and the SemWeb Ed/Outreach IG... I can't remember the details.

15:54:18 [DanC]

ah... so the comm team has the ball...

15:54:24 [DanC]

is there a due date?

15:55:13 [Simone]

Simone: I've talked with benjamin but there are no news about dates and/or Time

15:55:16 [DanC]

you say "we are waiting"; waiting until when?

15:55:19 [DanC]

ok

15:55:30 [DanC]

benjamin = Ben Adida?

15:55:55 [Simone]

Simone: no, Benjamin from SWEO

15:56:24 [DanC]

hmm...

15:56:39 [jjc]

(bye everyone)

15:56:41 [Simone]

Simone: he also edited all wiki pages for Semweb Logos

15:56:42 [Zakim]

-jjc

15:56:54 [DanC]

ah... Benjamin Nowack

15:57:03 [Simone]

and GRDDL WG logo proposal are on wiki page

15:57:16 [Simone]

Simone: @DanC: yes, he

15:57:20 [DanC]

ok, thanks

15:57:46 [Simone]

Simone: if there are news I'll mail the list

15:59:19 [Zakim]

-DanC

15:59:31 [danja]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Sep/0000.html

15:59:35 [john-l]

danja: I've received a response from the DC folks, which I've posted to the list.

15:59:37 [danja]

re. GRDDL & DC

16:00:07 [Zakim]

-Chimezie_Ogbuji

16:00:09 [Zakim]

-john-l

16:00:10 [Zakim]

-DBooth

16:00:12 [Zakim]

-danja

16:00:33 [john-l]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:00:33 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/05-grddl-wg-minutes.html john-l

16:00:49 [Zakim]

-Simone

16:01:12 [john-l]

Zakim, who attended the meeting?

16:01:12 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, john-l.

16:01:29 [john-l]

Zakim, list attendees

16:01:29 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been john-l, jjc, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Simone, HarryH, danja, DanC, DBooth

16:01:40 [john-l]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:01:40 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/05-grddl-wg-minutes.html john-l

16:01:59 [dbooth]

Present: Chimezie, Harry, DanC, DannyAyres, Simone, Jeremy, JohnClark, DBooth (arrive late)

16:02:17 [john-l]

Hm, I thought "list attendees" did that automagically. :)

16:02:29 [john-l]

There we go.

16:03:08 [dbooth]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:03:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/05-grddl-wg-minutes.html dbooth

16:03:21 [john-l]

I'll edit those and get them out later today.

16:03:43 [dbooth]

regrets+ RonReck

16:04:05 [HarryH]

thanks!

16:04:15 [Zakim]

-HarryH

16:04:19 [Zakim]

SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended

16:04:20 [HarryH]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

16:04:21 [Zakim]

Attendees were john-l, jjc, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Simone, HarryH, danja, DanC, DBooth

16:04:25 [Zakim]

apparently SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended, HarryH

16:04:35 [Zakim]

On IRC I see dbooth, danja, RRSAgent, john-l, HarryH, Simone, briansuda, DanC, Zakim

16:05:00 [dbooth]

ADJOURNED

16:05:10 [dbooth]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:05:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/05-grddl-wg-minutes.html dbooth

16:05:18 [danja]

Zakim, fancy dinner tonight?

16:05:25 [danja]

bye

16:05:30 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, danja.

16:05:36 [john-l]

Zakim, all your base are belong to us

16:06:05 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'all your base are belong to us', john-l

16:06:28 [HarryH]

Zakim, anything

16:06:28 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'anything', HarryH

16:06:47 [HarryH]

Zakim, you in particular

16:06:47 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'you in particular', HarryH

16:07:04 [john-l]

Too funny.

16:07:17 [HarryH]

Zakim, why you continually irritate me by using contradictions trying to figure out who is on the phone

16:07:17 [Zakim]

I don't understand you, HarryH

16:07:21 [HarryH]

:)

16:07:38 [HarryH]

Zakim, why you continually irritate me by using contractions

16:07:38 [Zakim]

I don't understand you, HarryH

16:07:44 [HarryH]

Zakim, why you continually irritate me

16:07:44 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'why you continually irritate me', HarryH

16:07:57 [danja]

lol

16:08:06 [danja]

byee

16:08:21 [danja]

danja has left #grddl-wg

16:11:53 [briansuda]

briansuda has joined #grddl-wg

16:13:09 [Zakim]

Zakim gateway process has lost state -- restarting it will require a restart of Zakim-bot. If you're on an active telecon and do *not* want to lose your agenda, please /msg ralphs

16:13:38 [Zakim]

... and let him know

16:14:47 [Zakim]

zakim-bot restart in 2 minutes

16:55:03 [myakura]

myakura has joined #grddl-wg