IRC log of ua on 2007-07-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:54:38 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #ua

16:54:38 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc

16:54:45 [JR]

Zakim, this will be UAWG

16:54:45 [Zakim]

ok, JR; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

16:54:54 [JR]

Meeting: WAI UA

16:56:11 [JR]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0015.html

16:56:17 [JR]

Chair: Jim Allan

16:56:24 [JR]

Scribe: JR

16:56:40 [JR]

Regrets: Cathy Laws, Kelly Ford

16:56:45 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started

16:56:52 [Zakim]

+Jim_Allan

16:59:33 [Zakim]

+??P1

17:00:01 [Zakim]

+Gregory_Rosmiata

17:00:03 [AllanJ]

zakim, ??P1 JR

17:00:03 [Zakim]

I don't understand '??P1 JR', AllanJ

17:00:43 [JR]

zakim, ??P1 is really JR

17:00:43 [Zakim]

+JR; got it

17:01:09 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

17:01:34 [JR]

zakim, [IBM] is really pparente

17:01:34 [Zakim]

+pparente; got it

17:02:10 [oedipus]

oedipus has joined #ua

17:02:10 [JR]

JA: Joining the call today we have Gregory Rosmaita...working on PF and HTML5

17:03:24 [JR]

Topic: PP to Proposal on ways User Agents could use live regions

17:03:37 [JR]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0016.html

17:03:42 [JR]

JA: Seems to make sense

17:03:57 [JR]

JA: Would be good to hear from KF

17:04:26 [JR]

JA: Also we should hand to WAI-PF to see if we can get their input

17:04:57 [JR]

Action JA: Will forward PP's message to x-tech.

17:06:02 [JR]

JA: THere used to be screen reader settings to block full page refreshing.

17:06:30 [JR]

GR: Talk with Charles Chen of LiveVox, implementing ARIA live regions.

17:07:05 [JR]

PP: Related to example in my msg - screen reader option even to overrule "rude"

17:07:20 [JR]

PP: May be helpful to invite CHarles to call

17:07:44 [JR]

Action JA: Contact Charles Chen to invite him to the call.

17:08:12 [JR]

JA: Anything else to ask?

17:08:19 [JR]

PP: No it's all in the msg for now.

17:08:53 [JR]

GR: xtech is a public archive

17:09:30 [JR]

GR: THere is a PF-ARIA wiki where best practices are being built - in ESwiki

17:10:12 [JR]

GR: Our problem is we are trying to push for ARIA to be implemented in HTML5

17:10:27 [JR]

GR Roles into HTML5

17:11:31 [AllanJ]

zakim, topic: Proposal - 3.1 Toggle BASE background

17:11:31 [Zakim]

I don't understand you, AllanJ

17:11:49 [AllanJ]

Topic: Proposal - 3.1 Toggle BASE background

17:12:12 [AllanJ]

JR: reviews proposal

17:12:33 [AllanJ]

PP: was there a discussion of the 'canvas' element

17:13:03 [AllanJ]

JR: no, 'canvas' has many definitions.

17:13:21 [AllanJ]

GR: 'canvas' element is in HTML5

17:13:49 [AllanJ]

PP: worried about confusion with terms. should be fine with good definition

17:14:36 [JR]

JA: Let's note concern about use of "canvas"...

17:14:58 [JR]

JA: Use of canvas is sceondary , just in definition

17:15:05 [JR]

JA: So should be ok for now

17:15:44 [JR]

GR: This vocab issue is also a prob in HTML5

17:16:01 [JR]

GR: Have heard canvas used elsewhere

17:16:55 [JR]

JR: Prefer not to define canvas since defn would be circular back to base browser

17:17:10 [JR]

Action JR: Will update wiki for 3.1

17:18:14 [AllanJ]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0007.html

17:18:22 [JR]

Topic: Proposal on 3.4 Toggle scripts

17:19:39 [AllanJ]

JR: Problem: use scripts to launch windows without interface (scroll bars, etc.)

17:20:12 [AllanJ]

...add new checkpoint specific to new window interface.

17:20:37 [AllanJ]

JR: X.Y Toggle user agent window formatting

17:20:38 [AllanJ]

- Allow configuration not to allow user agent windows to be formatted in

17:20:40 [AllanJ]

such a way that navigation or control by the user are limited (e.g.,

17:20:41 [AllanJ]

fixed size, no scrollbars, etc.).

17:21:18 [AllanJ]

GR: requirements, 1. warn user of new window opening...

17:22:34 [AllanJ]

2. new windows spawned, use UA user preference setting, and over-ride author java script

17:22:57 [AllanJ]

JR: assume no setting for show/no show scroll bar

17:23:25 [AllanJ]

JR: limited setting...use author setting, or full window interface

17:25:07 [AllanJ]

JR: 1 checkbox, author setting or fully functional browser window...

17:25:35 [AllanJ]

based on user current UA settings for scroll bars, button bars, etc.

17:25:49 [AllanJ]

JR and GR in agreement

17:26:23 [AllanJ]

action: rework new proposal, flesh out setting and UA behavior

17:26:47 [JR]

JA: Clarify that this is for 3.4

17:27:44 [JR]

Action PP: to Proposal to combine 3.2 and 3.3

17:28:01 [JR]

Topic: to Write to PF re: the update of the "until user agents..." doc

17:28:12 [JR]

JA: GR took this on for WAI-PF...

17:28:28 [JR]

JA: INteresting that no one wants to own it...

17:28:35 [JR]

JA: WCAG started it...

17:29:02 [JR]

GR: Would like to treat "until user agents" as dependencies...

17:30:00 [JR]

GR: for HTML5?

17:30:34 [JR]

GR: HTML group using HTML5 as starting point instead of HTML 4.01

17:30:55 [JR]

GR: To retain some access stuff we need to justify them.

17:31:16 [JR]

JA: Just checked, no "until user agent" clauses in WCAG2

17:31:30 [JR]

JA: In reviewing this, only so much can go in code....

17:31:49 [JR]

e.g. checkpoint 7.1, until user agents allow UA's to control flickering....

17:32:00 [JR]

don't cause the screen to flicker...

17:32:15 [JR]

but there are many different ways to get things to flicker...

17:32:32 [JR]

but some ways it is impossible for the user agent to know...

17:32:43 [JR]

so there is nothing they can do.

17:33:24 [JR]

GR: By looking at these carefully, we home to get HTML5 to accept Events...

17:34:12 [JR]

JA: Any other response from PF list?

17:34:29 [JR]

JA: HTML5 seen this?

17:35:09 [JR]

GR: So want to take until user agent doc and point to WAI-user agent support page

17:35:36 [JR]

GR: So as you go though you'll see how things have been addressed

17:36:29 [AllanJ]

current UA support for WCAG http://www.w3.org/WAI/Resources/WAI-UA-Support

17:37:05 [JR]

GR: It's a doc that lists all the "until user agent" clauses - it includes WCAG techs - GR would like to add links to user agent support page

17:37:46 [JR]

JA: Might also be useful to use UA implementation reports

17:38:21 [JR]

JA: As related resources, looked at UAAG 1.0 mapping to WCAG 2.0

17:38:45 [JR]

Actually that was GR

17:38:56 [JR]

JA: Happy to work with GR, maybe on xtech

17:40:18 [JR]

GR: Likes to bring issues to xtech...RECAPCH etc

17:40:42 [JR]

GR: First step for me is to post 2 docs...

17:41:10 [JR]

GR: "Until User Agents" doc and WAI User Agent support doc

17:42:09 [JR]

GR: WAI User Agent support doc just has added anchors over the version in uA space

17:43:46 [JR]

GR: Will help us clarify things that UA just doesn't have access to

17:45:40 [JR]

GR: Talking about adding timing to HTML5 but already done in SMIL

17:46:02 [JR]

GR:Let's just see how this develops

17:46:17 [JR]

GR: Until user agent clauses just bug me

17:46:59 [JR]

JA: Interesting to get crosstalk going on - maybe intersting to send to compound docs group

17:47:15 [JR]

JA: But let's develop it more first

17:48:38 [JR]

GR: Frustrating that rare use cases are being used to remove things from HTML5

17:49:30 [Zakim]

-Gregory_Rosmiata

17:49:31 [Zakim]

-pparente

17:50:56 [JR]

Action JA: Get thoughts together about 3.4 "All executable content" managing configuration

18:15:48 [AllanJ]

http://teitac.org/wiki/Talk:Web_and_Software:_July_11#Highly_visible_keyboard_focus

18:17:49 [Zakim]

-JR

18:17:51 [Zakim]

-Jim_Allan

18:17:52 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended

18:17:53 [Zakim]

Attendees were Jim_Allan, Gregory_Rosmiata, JR, pparente

18:18:06 [JR]

RRSAgent, make minutes

18:18:06 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-minutes.html JR

18:18:13 [JR]

RRSAgent, set logs public

18:18:20 [JR]

Zakim, bye

18:18:20 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #ua

18:18:28 [JR]

RRSAgent, bye

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-actions.rdf :

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA to Will forward PP's message to x-tech. [1]

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-04-57

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA to Contact Charles Chen to invite him to the call. [2]

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-07-44

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JR to Will update wiki for 3.1 [3]

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-17-10

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: rework new proposal, flesh out setting and UA behavior [4]

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-26-23

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: PP to to Proposal to combine 3.2 and 3.3 [5]

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-27-44

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA to Get thoughts together about 3.4 "All executable content" managing configuration [6]

18:18:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-50-56