16:54:38 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:54:38 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc 16:54:45 Zakim, this will be UAWG 16:54:45 ok, JR; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 16:54:54 Meeting: WAI UA 16:56:11 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0015.html 16:56:17 Chair: Jim Allan 16:56:24 Scribe: JR 16:56:40 Regrets: Cathy Laws, Kelly Ford 16:56:45 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 16:56:52 +Jim_Allan 16:59:33 +??P1 17:00:01 +Gregory_Rosmiata 17:00:03 zakim, ??P1 JR 17:00:03 I don't understand '??P1 JR', AllanJ 17:00:43 zakim, ??P1 is really JR 17:00:43 +JR; got it 17:01:09 +[IBM] 17:01:34 zakim, [IBM] is really pparente 17:01:34 +pparente; got it 17:02:10 oedipus has joined #ua 17:02:10 JA: Joining the call today we have Gregory Rosmaita...working on PF and HTML5 17:03:24 Topic: PP to Proposal on ways User Agents could use live regions 17:03:37 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0016.html 17:03:42 JA: Seems to make sense 17:03:57 JA: Would be good to hear from KF 17:04:26 JA: Also we should hand to WAI-PF to see if we can get their input 17:04:57 Action JA: Will forward PP's message to x-tech. 17:06:02 JA: THere used to be screen reader settings to block full page refreshing. 17:06:30 GR: Talk with Charles Chen of LiveVox, implementing ARIA live regions. 17:07:05 PP: Related to example in my msg - screen reader option even to overrule "rude" 17:07:20 PP: May be helpful to invite CHarles to call 17:07:44 Action JA: Contact Charles Chen to invite him to the call. 17:08:12 JA: Anything else to ask? 17:08:19 PP: No it's all in the msg for now. 17:08:53 GR: xtech is a public archive 17:09:30 GR: THere is a PF-ARIA wiki where best practices are being built - in ESwiki 17:10:12 GR: Our problem is we are trying to push for ARIA to be implemented in HTML5 17:10:27 GR Roles into HTML5 17:11:31 zakim, topic: Proposal - 3.1 Toggle BASE background 17:11:31 I don't understand you, AllanJ 17:11:49 Topic: Proposal - 3.1 Toggle BASE background 17:12:12 JR: reviews proposal 17:12:33 PP: was there a discussion of the 'canvas' element 17:13:03 JR: no, 'canvas' has many definitions. 17:13:21 GR: 'canvas' element is in HTML5 17:13:49 PP: worried about confusion with terms. should be fine with good definition 17:14:36 JA: Let's note concern about use of "canvas"... 17:14:58 JA: Use of canvas is sceondary , just in definition 17:15:05 JA: So should be ok for now 17:15:44 GR: This vocab issue is also a prob in HTML5 17:16:01 GR: Have heard canvas used elsewhere 17:16:55 JR: Prefer not to define canvas since defn would be circular back to base browser 17:17:10 Action JR: Will update wiki for 3.1 17:18:14 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0007.html 17:18:22 Topic: Proposal on 3.4 Toggle scripts 17:19:39 JR: Problem: use scripts to launch windows without interface (scroll bars, etc.) 17:20:12 ...add new checkpoint specific to new window interface. 17:20:37 JR: X.Y Toggle user agent window formatting 17:20:38 - Allow configuration not to allow user agent windows to be formatted in 17:20:40 such a way that navigation or control by the user are limited (e.g., 17:20:41 fixed size, no scrollbars, etc.). 17:21:18 GR: requirements, 1. warn user of new window opening... 17:22:34 2. new windows spawned, use UA user preference setting, and over-ride author java script 17:22:57 JR: assume no setting for show/no show scroll bar 17:23:25 JR: limited setting...use author setting, or full window interface 17:25:07 JR: 1 checkbox, author setting or fully functional browser window... 17:25:35 based on user current UA settings for scroll bars, button bars, etc. 17:25:49 JR and GR in agreement 17:26:23 action: rework new proposal, flesh out setting and UA behavior 17:26:47 JA: Clarify that this is for 3.4 17:27:44 Action PP: to Proposal to combine 3.2 and 3.3 17:28:01 Topic: to Write to PF re: the update of the "until user agents..." doc 17:28:12 JA: GR took this on for WAI-PF... 17:28:28 JA: INteresting that no one wants to own it... 17:28:35 JA: WCAG started it... 17:29:02 GR: Would like to treat "until user agents" as dependencies... 17:30:00 GR: for HTML5? 17:30:34 GR: HTML group using HTML5 as starting point instead of HTML 4.01 17:30:55 GR: To retain some access stuff we need to justify them. 17:31:16 JA: Just checked, no "until user agent" clauses in WCAG2 17:31:30 JA: In reviewing this, only so much can go in code.... 17:31:49 e.g. checkpoint 7.1, until user agents allow UA's to control flickering.... 17:32:00 don't cause the screen to flicker... 17:32:15 but there are many different ways to get things to flicker... 17:32:32 but some ways it is impossible for the user agent to know... 17:32:43 so there is nothing they can do. 17:33:24 GR: By looking at these carefully, we home to get HTML5 to accept Events... 17:34:12 JA: Any other response from PF list? 17:34:29 JA: HTML5 seen this? 17:35:09 GR: So want to take until user agent doc and point to WAI-user agent support page 17:35:36 GR: So as you go though you'll see how things have been addressed 17:36:29 current UA support for WCAG http://www.w3.org/WAI/Resources/WAI-UA-Support 17:37:05 GR: It's a doc that lists all the "until user agent" clauses - it includes WCAG techs - GR would like to add links to user agent support page 17:37:46 JA: Might also be useful to use UA implementation reports 17:38:21 JA: As related resources, looked at UAAG 1.0 mapping to WCAG 2.0 17:38:45 Actually that was GR 17:38:56 JA: Happy to work with GR, maybe on xtech 17:40:18 GR: Likes to bring issues to xtech...RECAPCH etc 17:40:42 GR: First step for me is to post 2 docs... 17:41:10 GR: "Until User Agents" doc and WAI User Agent support doc 17:42:09 GR: WAI User Agent support doc just has added anchors over the version in uA space 17:43:46 GR: Will help us clarify things that UA just doesn't have access to 17:45:40 GR: Talking about adding timing to HTML5 but already done in SMIL 17:46:02 GR:Let's just see how this develops 17:46:17 GR: Until user agent clauses just bug me 17:46:59 JA: Interesting to get crosstalk going on - maybe intersting to send to compound docs group 17:47:15 JA: But let's develop it more first 17:48:38 GR: Frustrating that rare use cases are being used to remove things from HTML5 17:49:30 -Gregory_Rosmiata 17:49:31 -pparente 17:50:56 Action JA: Get thoughts together about 3.4 "All executable content" managing configuration 18:15:48 http://teitac.org/wiki/Talk:Web_and_Software:_July_11#Highly_visible_keyboard_focus 18:17:49 -JR 18:17:51 -Jim_Allan 18:17:52 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:17:53 Attendees were Jim_Allan, Gregory_Rosmiata, JR, pparente 18:18:06 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:18:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-minutes.html JR 18:18:13 RRSAgent, set logs public 18:18:20 Zakim, bye 18:18:20 Zakim has left #ua 18:18:28 RRSAgent, bye 18:18:28 I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-actions.rdf : 18:18:28 ACTION: JA to Will forward PP's message to x-tech. [1] 18:18:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-04-57 18:18:28 ACTION: JA to Contact Charles Chen to invite him to the call. [2] 18:18:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-07-44 18:18:28 ACTION: JR to Will update wiki for 3.1 [3] 18:18:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-17-10 18:18:28 ACTION: rework new proposal, flesh out setting and UA behavior [4] 18:18:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-26-23 18:18:28 ACTION: PP to to Proposal to combine 3.2 and 3.3 [5] 18:18:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-27-44 18:18:28 ACTION: JA to Get thoughts together about 3.4 "All executable content" managing configuration [6] 18:18:28 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-ua-irc#T17-50-56